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P-Mack posted:Also being "merely adequate" while having the Earthsea name. The Earthsea movie was so bad that it made Le Guin not want any of her stories adapted to anime ever again so gently caress Miyazaki's son imo. (Realtalk: Yeah, it's pretty hosed up that Miyazaki would be such an rear end in a top hat to his kid. If you don't want him to disappoint you then be a better dad, dipshit!) jit bull transpile posted:You know people keep saying that Eva sexualizes its child characters but I really don't see it. They're drawn like skinny 14 year olds with none of the cheesecake unrealistic cleavage and curves that anime usually gives women, and whenever they are in a situation or framing that *could* be interpreted as sexual it's always to show Shinji's discomfort with sexuality (and by extension intimacy), or occasionally in the case of Asuka with kaji to show how deeply disturbed Asuka is in her desire to receive positive attention So this is one of those things where it's clear there were many people with different intents doing things differently. Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the character designer, draws girls that way because he likes girls that way, he and the people in charge of the character merch went to many great lengths to make as many images of the girls being attractive as they could. On the other hand what the show actually does with the characters bodies is usually uncomfortable as hell (and intentionally so) to watch. Rei is the character that is seen naked the most and those scenes consist of awkward silences, her clones getting killed off and Gendo bad touching her so awful that her arm falls off in probably one of the most gruesome shots of the series.
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Jul 18, 2019 22:56
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GimmickMan posted:The Earthsea movie was so bad that it made Le Guin not want any of her stories adapted to anime ever again so gently caress Miyazaki's son imo. Yeah I'm just going from the text of the show because I don't engage with the merchandise and poo poo around this show at all.
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Jul 18, 2019 22:58
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to add to the above, Kaworu is significant not only in that he's gay, not only in that he loves Shinji, but that he's a positive male role model that Shinji otherwise lacks, and represents a different (and more stereotypically feminine) way of understanding and relating to the world. EoE is a necessary proto-feminist capstone on what is otherwise mostly a POV story about a shy, introverted, young man learning the importance of human connections. Just saying "well Shinji struggled for a while and had really bad examples to learn from, but he figured it out eventually" is true, but incomplete; EoE opens with the jerk-off scene and closes with the strangulation because it's important to step outside Shinji's perspective for just a second and show how toxic and destructive his environment has been on who he is as a person. Those scenes are a way to shock the viewer (presumed to be at least broadly sympathetic towards Shinji as the protagonist and POV character of the show) by shoving in your face what the events of the show have taught him. Underneath all of that there really is a sweet kid who's just having a horrible time for reasons that aren't really his fault, but at some point that was also true of Gendo, and we know where that ends. (compare Ritsuko's fate to Asuka's) Hideaki Anno anticipated that some viewers (and, I imagine, particularly women) wouldn't be especially sympathetic to Shinji because they're already sick to death of dealing with that kind of personality. Some of you may have heard of this (in)famous exchange between Anno and Asuka's voice actress: Yuko Miyamura posted:At last Anno asked me "Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?" I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought "Disgusting". And then he sighed and said "... thought as much." He said. " I thought as much. " Anno knows perfectly well that some people would be too repulsed by this to have any hope of relating to the character afterwards, and he's a little disappointed but hardly surprised. (And when you frame it like that, it's so obviously horrible and invasive that even the nuanced, limited sympathy Anno is fishing for seems like an unreasonable demand -- like, "why's he even bothering to ask?") What I suspect Anno didn't anticipate (or even care about, probably) is the extent to which Western fans would hate Shinji for not living up to some standard of manliness, which leads to the bizarre situation where his actions in EoE are seen as proof of his weakness, rather than the outward manifestation of the war going on for his soul, so to speak. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 23:01
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jit bull transpile posted:In every instance, it feels to me like you're intended to be uncomfortable with the framing of the characters rather than titilated. The characters are sexual but not sexualized. And when the episode previews promise fan service, I read it as the show poking fun at viewers for wanting that out of a cartoon about traumatized kids. This is what its always been to me too. Imagine the wow cool robot meme but with "wow, sexy girl" instead or something I dunno.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:03
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I think the show has its cake and eats it a little bit in regards to sexualization/fanservice.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:05
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also, carrying over the previous analysis to Rebuilds -- this is part of why I'm so lenient with respect to Shinji at the end of Rebuild 2. it's an alternate story in which he's willing to die for Rei, and refuses to allow the world to sacrifice her to save itself. which in turn is thematically, if not literally, paying her back for what happens in TV Eva + EoE
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Jul 18, 2019 23:15
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The fan service is all the closeups of buttons and knobs and UI elements and doors opening and closing and all that cool poo poo
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Jul 18, 2019 23:34
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Having seen literally anything else by Hideaki Anno that is correct.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:38
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Also Eva is a very blunt show about its sexuality. Most coming of age stories at the time would at most pop a boner joke here or there and have the boys gradually learn to Understand Girls' Feelings without anyone ever getting naked in a dumbed down and sanitized version of adolescence. Meanwhile in Eva Shinji is consistently uncomfortable if not outright terrified, not so much of the sex act itself, but rather of the intimacy that comes with it. It's why what seeing Rei coming out of the shower paralyzes him (what would usually be a comedy scene in any other story) and why an angel probing his mind and his fears uses images of the women in his life offering him sex. It's just another aspect of the hedgehog's dilemma that his arc is about. But it does all this by having the characters get naked, which, basically, yeah, is both this: EthanSteele posted:This is what its always been to me too. Imagine the wow cool robot meme but with "wow, sexy girl" instead or something I dunno. and this: General Dog posted:I think the show has its cake and eats it a little bit in regards to sexualization/fanservice. Because even the text of the story is irrelevant in the pursuit of profit and what aspects of a series will be in your face the most.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:49
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jit bull transpile posted:You know people keep saying that Eva sexualizes its child characters but I really don't see it. They're drawn like skinny 14 year olds with none of the cheesecake unrealistic cleavage and curves that anime usually gives women, and whenever they are in a situation or framing that *could* be interpreted as sexual it's always to show Shinji's discomfort with sexuality (and by extension intimacy), or occasionally in the case of Asuka with kaji to show how deeply disturbed Asuka is in her desire to receive positive attention On the one hand, I basically agree with all of your points. The nudity in Evangelion, at least the tv show, often struck me as horrifying: see some the earlier posts about Asuka in the bathtub, for example. I remember being viscerally disturbed by the first time we see the tank full of Rei clones, all with uncharacteristic smiling faces: it really highlighted how disposable NERV considered her, and the sea of weirdly smiling faces gave them all a terrible soulless seeming. It was a show that knew how to use nakedness effectively and appropiately. On the other hand, there is undeniably a lot of fanservice in Eva, and you can only justify so much of it. I feel like the Rebuilds have been particularly bad about this, with Asuka's stupid see-through plug suit in the second movie being the most obvious example of fanservice for the sake of titillation. It haven't rewatched the TV series yet so I can't really judge it too much, but I can definitely understand this particular criticism of the series.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:49
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General Dog posted:I think the show has its cake and eats it a little bit in regards to sexualization/fanservice. i think it's totally fine that shinji is nervous around asuka and stares at her boobs when she bends down, but it's that it not only invites us to do as well, but makes us come along with it and i think it's totally fair for people to be made uncomfortable by that. we see asuka's panties when all the boys see them. we see rei's calves when shinji stares at them.
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Jul 18, 2019 23:55
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Yeah. There are bits where it has things to say wrt sex/gender, there are parts that are just fanservicey, and there are parts that are both. There are some shots where they don't need to show as much as they do to show that, eg: shinji is looking at Rei putting on panties or whatever. The audience could tell he's doing that by his reaction without showing the audience. That's the classier way to do it.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:13
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New Waypoint episode is kind of a bummer, they seem to be further and further missing the mark on some of the characters and themes and at least Patrick has completely checked out and only wants a "lore dump" to explain everything, which lol Can't believe I'm leaning towards being more excited about Dan Ryckert's takes considering where the two podcasts started, but well here we are.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:25
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Honestly I thought the show came off a lot better without the "next time" bits that promised more fan service.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:27
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Honestly I thought the show came off a lot better without the "next time" bits that promised more fan service. Are you kidding the gradual shift from goofy fan service previews to existential dread is one of the best jokes of the show.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:35
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The_Rob posted:Are you kidding the gradual shift from goofy fan service previews to existential dread is one of the best jokes of the show. And the fact that it continues to promise fanservice where there is none is fantastic. Always stay for the previews.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:37
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Wait, can you elaborate? yeah there's a huge and insane dichotomy between miyazaki the person and the work he claims credit for
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Jul 19, 2019 00:55
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The next time music is so catchy.
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Jul 19, 2019 02:17
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SHISHKABOB posted:The next time music is so catchy. next time on evangelion: everything still sucks and everyone is sad about it
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Jul 19, 2019 02:24
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Yinlock posted:next time on evangelion: everything still sucks and everyone is sad about it ...
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Jul 19, 2019 02:30
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i know you're all very depressed at all the characters being beaten down into neurotic shadows of their former selves by endless trauma, but you know what would be even sadder: not seeing these HUGE JUGGS
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Jul 19, 2019 02:32
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Yinlock posted:i know you're all very depressed at all the characters being beaten down into neurotic shadows of their former selves by endless trauma, but you know what would be even sadder: not seeing these HUGE JUGGS
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Jul 19, 2019 02:35
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got recommended this old video today, it's great if you haven't seen it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeoFnVoiQAs
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Jul 19, 2019 02:50
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FilthyImp posted:That's kind of a hosed up way to talk about Lilith, brostradamus. the sjws at nerv have had their way for too long
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Jul 19, 2019 02:51
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Nate RFB posted:New Waypoint episode is kind of a bummer, they seem to be further and further missing the mark on some of the characters and themes and at least Patrick has completely checked out and only wants a "lore dump" to explain everything, which lol I've somehow been really disappointed with this Waypoint which is weird since I normally track perfectly with Austin. It got me to check out the new dub, I hadn't watched it in a few years. I thought maybe I'm misremembering things since I'd last watched. Nope. I think the one thing that tipped me off that I'd disagree so much was their interpretation of Kaji. Like yeah, the guy is kinda garbage. I didn't recall the show really glorifying him the way they saw him. He's almost always being a creep and the show goes out of its way to show Misato being disgusted. Even once she does give in it's specifically when she's extremely vulnerable, whether physically or emotionally
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Jul 19, 2019 02:54
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jit bull transpile posted:You know people keep saying that Eva sexualizes its child characters but I really don't see it. They're drawn like skinny 14 year olds with none of the cheesecake unrealistic cleavage and curves that anime usually gives women, and whenever they are in a situation or framing that *could* be interpreted as sexual it's always to show Shinji's discomfort with sexuality (and by extension intimacy), or occasionally in the case of Asuka with kaji to show how deeply disturbed Asuka is in her desire to receive positive attention other evidence: literally every other anime with fanservice
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Jul 19, 2019 02:59
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lets hang out posted:got recommended this old video today, it's great if you haven't seen it It is great. Is there a subbed version somewhere though?
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Jul 19, 2019 03:00
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Wait is 3.0 + 1.0 the last of the Rebuild movies? Why is it called that. Are 1.0 and 1.1 and 1.11 different movies? When Rebuild was first announced I figured I'd wait for the whole thing to come out before I watched it but it's been twelve years and I don't know what's happening. I stopped paying attention because I assumed that 3+1 was a remaster of the rebuild movies, because this is also the universe that made Kingdom Hearts 2.8, so sure. Whatever. Why would you name your movies 1, 2, 3, and 1+3.
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Jul 19, 2019 03:05
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It’s not even so much the nudity, at some point you’re making a conscious effort to show minors nude. They could have made all the characters 18 and it would have been less gross. Which if you’re going for shock value then fine but you also bring in condoning child nudity and the baggage that brings with it. Waypoint mentioned something about the creators views on child pornography but didn’t go into very much yet, what’s that about?
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Jul 19, 2019 03:05
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YggiDee posted:Why would you name your movies 1, 2, 3, and 1+3. because 4.0 wasn't quite pretentious enough
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Jul 19, 2019 03:13
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I literally only realized that it was the fourth movie about 20 minutes ago, that's why I'm so annoyed.
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Jul 19, 2019 03:15
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YggiDee posted:Wait is 3.0 + 1.0 the last of the Rebuild movies? Why is it called that. Are 1.0 and 1.1 and 1.11 different movies? 1 is the beginning, 2 is the middle, 3 is the end (3 is also denoted as Kyu, which sounds like Q...) So 3+1 is literally End + Beginning, but may have musical notation signifying Repeat. As for Movie.1.11.x, the additional numbers signify revisions (usually done for translation revisions, animation additions, or additional release fixes). FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 03:15
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Nate RFB posted:New Waypoint episode is kind of a bummer, they seem to be further and further missing the mark on some of the characters and themes and at least Patrick has completely checked out and only wants a "lore dump" to explain everything, which lol Agree with this post pretty hardcore. Waypoint latest episode was pretty bad.
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Jul 19, 2019 03:26
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FilthyImp posted:I read somewhere that the japanese counting system in that case evokes something related to noh play acts. Yinlock posted:because 4.0 wasn't quite pretentious enough
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Jul 19, 2019 03:28
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sounds like people are seeing trailers in theaters saying the fourth movie will be showing in June 2020
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Jul 19, 2019 03:29
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lets hang out posted:sounds like people are seeing trailers in theaters saying the fourth movie will be showing in June 2020 Just saw this on twitter as well: https://twitter.com/FarmboyinJapan/status/1152034478300127232
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Jul 19, 2019 03:30
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Looks like it’s confirmed by the official twitter: https://twitter.com/evangelion_co/status/1152043994253148161
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Jul 19, 2019 03:38
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naming stuff like 3.0+1.0 (After that, and THE END NOT and ANTI) is badass, idiots
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Jul 19, 2019 03:42
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The 1.11 notation is for the home releases that have some extra stuff. I kindof like it, a fair few movies have slight differences between releases with no easy way to distinguish between them.Invalid Validation posted:It’s not even so much the nudity, at some point you’re making a conscious effort to show minors nude. They could have made all the characters 18 and it would have been less gross. Which if you’re going for shock value then fine but you also bring in condoning child nudity and the baggage that brings with it. Waypoint mentioned something about the creators views on child pornography but didn’t go into very much yet, what’s that about?
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Jul 19, 2019 03:57
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Relin posted:i have read that gainax officially licensed porn games with the characters Pretty sure that didn’t happen. Edit:huh, they made three strip mahjong games. Midjack fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 03:59
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