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SuperMechagodzilla posted:2) Yui’s very dead in the basic sense that she’s been completely absorbed into the Unit 01 supercomputer and no longer exists as an individual. The visions of her that we see are attempts by a new hybrid being to communicate with Shinji in terms he can understand, but also to manipulate him. Her soul is still intact - the manga's a little more explicit in that regard since Yui's soul separates itself from the Angel side of Unit 01 to comfort Shinji with Rei's help, and tells him he can either join her, or go back, and she'll always watch over him no matter what he decides
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Jul 25, 2019 18:25
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questions i have: 1). Touji's mom is dead, right? is her soul in unit 03? 2). When Rei III "wakes up" in the hospital, she doesn't remember the battle where Rei II died, which makes sense because she wasn't there. So when Rei gets "rebooted", when are they restoring her from? I assume they're basically backing her up whenever she's in the LCL tank uploading her consciousness, so is she just as she was the last time she was in the tank, is there some sort of connection between the Reis that are given consciousness that carries her emotional development through a soul or something, or do they just reboot her personality from whatever base level they have, then tell her what's going on?
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Jul 25, 2019 18:29
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I don't think there is any living mother for any character that we know of in Eva and AFAIK that's kind of a "requirement" for the kids at the school to be potential Eva pilots. I just sort of assumed that the Rei/LCL system is able to intrinsically "draw" back in Lilith's soul whenever its body is destoryed and since they can seemingly digitize personality/memories they just re-apply a template to the new one.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:38
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Dividing/cloning or hybridizing doesn't negate the existence of the original, it is changing forms to adapt to the current environment for preservation of self and progeny. I think she saw that people in control were not going to stop being lovely so she'd salvage a bit of the good parts of life in the robot, not to manipulate but vaguely guide from a distance.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:09
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rei III is an entirely new person, until she isn't angels are weird
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Jul 25, 2019 19:12
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DC Murderverse posted:questions i have: I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again. Wild guess there, though.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:21
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again. I think they mention she’s fine. They do in the manga at least.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:23
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again. I don't think so, since in order to be in the class with shinji, he must already have been a pilot candidate before the show started
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Jul 25, 2019 19:26
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Yeah I don’t think I can listen to another waypoint podcast about this show anymore
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Jul 25, 2019 19:28
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:28
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It is wild that dan and Bianca have a better understand of Evangelion than the waypoint people. But then again maybe this shouldn’t be surprising considering Dan’s love for metal gear, a series a with a ton of technobabble but also a very engaging story. He’s dumb as poo poo but he’s been picking up on way more stuff than most of the waypoint staff has. I’m interested in checking out the ringer’s podcast as well now.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:32
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Yeah I don’t think I can listen to another waypoint podcast about this show anymore I totally get where you're coming from. The show is far from perfect and is not above criticism, but I find a lot of the Waypoint hosts' complaints super nitpicky.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:38
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I think it's pretty clear there can only be one Rei at a time, suggesting that some essential part of a person cannot be copied. I've mentioned it before but I think this links to how getting part of your brain digitized causes you to go crazy and/or die.noether posted:I don't think so, since in order to be in the class with shinji, he must already have been a pilot candidate before the show started
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Jul 25, 2019 19:42
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again. Let me make you feel better. This is not the wildest guess I've heard relating to this, because before the Netflix announcement we ran a buddy of mine through the show last year, and his takeaway from that episode was "she died and they made Toji burn her body - that was why he was at the incinerator, no?" He was unfamiliar with cleaning up the classrooms and made the wildest leap I've ever seen as a result.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:44
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Yea it seems waypoint has completely missed the mark on this weeks podcast here is an article on vice about it https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mb884x/evangelion-ruins-one-of-its-best-plot-beats-with-sexist-tropes quote:Austin: They really did, if only the Magi were here to guide us. Yeah I think that that part of it just falls flat for me and it's so frustrating. Misato frames all of this as "The tragedy of those obsessed by Angels, and I'm no different." Which, yeah.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:45
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There is just so much to unpack, so much to look at through different lenses at this stage, so much that gets reframed, so much that is ambitious and messy and fascinating from pure film-making and editing perspectives, and how all of it was pretty unique at the time but also built on the shoulders of its predecessors, and it's just glossed over with seeming glee at a cavalcade of uncharitable reads and straw men. It's too bad.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:46
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's pretty clear there can only be one Rei at a time, suggesting that some essential part of a person cannot be copied. I've mentioned it before but I think this links to how getting part of your brain digitized causes you to go crazy and/or die. that's super dark, but I definitely wouldn't put it past nerv/ritsuko to do something like that
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Jul 25, 2019 19:50
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"Wow cool robot!" but the guy is looking at "compulsory heterosexuality" and the Gundam is shooting "Don't exploit the people around you to reunite with your dead wife." And the Gundam is Gendo.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:50
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Even if you don't like what they do with Ritsuko, framing the problem with her arc as "compulsory heterosexuality" feels kind of weird and inadequate to me given that her infatuation with Gendo is very explicitly a poisonous thing that has caused her profound harm.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:51
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It doesn't matter, let people have their own opinions and learn from them independently. Form your own thoughts based on smart and not dumb things and ignore them.Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's pretty clear there can only be one Rei at a time, suggesting that some essential part of a person cannot be copied. I've mentioned it before but I think this links to how getting part of your brain digitized causes you to go crazy and/or die. Lots of problems with direct brain transfer and cloning in this show. Hybridizing with the angels seems like the safest option.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:53
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SHISHKABOB posted:Can Tuxedo Catfish make an evangelion podcast, I will pay you ten dollars for it. I'd probably be more comfortable writing blog posts or articles, but maybe when I have time and the right co-host. Irony Be My Shield posted:I think it's pretty clear there can only be one Rei at a time, suggesting that some essential part of a person cannot be copied. I've mentioned it before but I think this links to how getting part of your brain digitized causes you to go crazy and/or die. I've always read it as there's only Rei (who is also Lilith, and whose initial personality/memories are probably at least influenced by Yui's considering her other inexplicable hostility towards Naoko) but every time they bring her back the more dissociated she feels from who she was before, and the more elements of her personality just kind of wither away. There's a scene where Rei III talks about how she remembers everyone but the memories don't feel like hers and she doesn't have much emotion about them. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 19:55
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Vinylshadow posted:Her soul is still intact - the manga's a little more explicit in that regard since Yui's soul separates itself from the Angel side of Unit 01 to comfort Shinji with Rei's help, and tells him he can either join her, or go back, and she'll always watch over him no matter what he decides Well that's what we're talking about : "her soul is still intact". What does that mean? Like, what would a damaged soul look like, versus an intact one? The term "soul" seems self-evident, and is treated as self-evident, but these varying definitions just kind of fall apart under scrutiny. Your post, for example, implicitly defines 'soul' as personality: Unit 01 has something akin to 'dissociative identity disorder', where it can shift between the giant cyborg personality and the Yui personality kept in storage, and we can clearly delineate the two. But your post is also presenting this personality as interchangeable with a metaphorical spirit. Like, "it doesn't matter whether I'm literally with you or not". That's actually the entire crux of it, because it does matter. There is a difference between the literal and metaphorical, just as there is a difference between uploading everyone into an alien supercomputer and the biblical Kingdom Of Heaven (which is, at its most radical, merely full communism). In that context, the primordial unity that Lilith offers is (despite all the fireworks and spectacle) a very cheap substitute for the Christian love for thy neighbour, agape. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". That quote doesn't mean that people will become a big ol' genderless blob literally inside of a big Jesus. Paul's using the present tense there. He's talking about egalitarian politics now. Class struggle. We also need to factor in embodiment here, because if the soul is merely the personality stored inside Lilith, then damage to that body will damage the souls. You can lose souls this way, even if the damaged parts are immediately regrown. And Unit 01 never at any point acts like a 30-something Japanese woman. Insofar as a Yui can be said to exist, she is being kept isolated inside a virtual reality and, like, eternally standing on a coral reef while people applaud her or something. What's interesting is not what happens inside the VR, but what's happening outside of it: what's powering all this? How will the goo be distributed? What's the latency like between one end of the puddle and the other? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 19:57
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Nate RFB posted:There is just maybe they don't want to watch a show 1000 times to understand it like the big brains can
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Jul 25, 2019 20:06
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Tythas posted:Yea it seems waypoint has completely missed the mark on this weeks podcast
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Jul 25, 2019 20:38
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Nate RFB posted:This is the set of episodes that deal with the loving harrowing Asuka episode, the complete unraveling of the adults as a whole (hint: not just Gendo) to contain the situation or be anything other than malevolent actors to the children, and everything there is with Kaworu, and none of that even gets a mention in the article advertising it? like I said they really missed the mark
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Jul 25, 2019 21:14
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when will businesses figure out that doing their job well and getting facts exactly right will earn much more free attention from all the influential smart people complimenting them online
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Jul 25, 2019 21:23
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I thought maybe they used his sister? The beginning of the episode has him going to visit her while she recovers from her Angel-attack related injuries, and I don't remember if they ever mention her again. I never got the impression they used her. Sure she isn't mentioned again but neither is Touji after episode 19. You just reminded me of something. The Ps2/psp Evangelion game is a life sim where you control a character from the series up until third Impact. Naturally there is a storyline where you play as Touji. How it works is after the first angel attack Touji can approach Misato and be recruited to NERV (EVA 03 doesn't go berserk). Some things to note about the scenario: 1- Outside a few specific events, angels appear in a random order. 2- If Leliel (Shadow Angel) appears, the pilot you're controlling is the one who gets swallowed (or shinji if you're not playing as a pilot). If touji is swallowed, he ends up comforted by the soul of his mother (we don't see her but the text box identifies her as Touji's mother) before escaping the same way unit 1 did in the series 3- One of the possible events is Touji running off with his sister, carrying her on his back as they ride a bike. At this point, Zeruel appears and things go to poo poo. While Touji initially focuses on getting his sister to safety, Touji's sister convinces him to go back to NERV and fight. While the game is not exactly good it's fascinating. It was my first PSP game and I must have put several hundred hours into it. Just wish it was easier to play.
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Jul 25, 2019 21:39
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Equeen posted:I totally get where you're coming from. The show is far from perfect and is not above criticism, but I find a lot of the Waypoint hosts' complaints super nitpicky. Yup this is it. The show and the movies have their problems, but the waypoint takes/nitpicking and getting hung up on things soured me on the podcast. I learned a lot from their opinions too but yeah it’s just not for me this podcast. Also agreed with whoever said the waypoint cast is basically like a book report. Feels that way
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Jul 25, 2019 21:59
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Charlatan Eschaton posted:when will businesses figure out that doing their job well and getting facts exactly right will earn much more free attention from all the influential smart people complimenting them online smh
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Jul 25, 2019 22:16
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I knew it was a wild guess, but thanks for the good info and for not telling me to GTFO.
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Jul 25, 2019 22:25
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Yinlock posted:maybe they don't want to watch a show 1000 times to understand it like the big brains can Then they probably shouldn't make a podcast about it and act like a definitive perspective.
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Jul 25, 2019 22:28
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Spiritus Nox posted:Even if you don't like what they do with Ritsuko, framing the problem with her arc as "compulsory heterosexuality" feels kind of weird and inadequate to me given that her infatuation with Gendo is very explicitly a poisonous thing that has caused her profound harm. that was more of a joke line after talking about what they saw as the real problem, which is that both Ritsuko and Naoko suffer the same fate, both in the context of the show (killing Rei after being spurned/ignored by Gendo) and in the context of criticism of the show (both characters seem to jump straight from "normal-seeming if cold and logical woman jumping straight to child destruction because one lovely dude rejected them"). There's no real display of why either Dr. Akagi is attracted to Gendo, so the jealousy they display seems like a huge leap. This is mostly a result of the compression in episodes 18-24, which sort of dashes through stories and developments to get them out of the way because they just don't have the time to actually develop them. honestly the feminist criticism that came out of the Waypoint podcast was the most cogent criticism that any of them had. It was way better than the complaining that Patrick did about not wanting his lore dumps too bureaucratic.
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Jul 25, 2019 22:56
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The REAL Goobusters posted:It is wild that dan and Bianca have a better understand of Evangelion than the waypoint people. But then again maybe this shouldn’t be surprising considering Dan’s love for metal gear, a series a with a ton of technobabble but also a very engaging story. He’s dumb as poo poo but he’s been picking up on way more stuff than most of the waypoint staff has. I’m interested in checking out the ringer’s podcast as well now. He's also written an entire book about dealing with depression and anxiety, so it's no wonder that he's able to enjoy the show immensely.
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Jul 26, 2019 00:13
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i haven't bothered with any of the waypoint podcasts because if i wanted to dedicate so many hours to evangelion i'd just watch the series again, but my main takeaway from what i've heard is that they probably should have just watched the series and then done some podcasts on what they have to talk about after it.
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Jul 26, 2019 01:43
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It's not so much that it's that they are hyperfocusing on really minor things and spending a good 30 mins talking about them instead of the episodes as a whole.
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Jul 26, 2019 02:28
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It's a podcast where 3 people haven't seen the show and the other 2 have not watched it in 10+ years. For what it is, it's fine. I enjoy what Rob and Danielle bring to the table.
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Jul 26, 2019 04:38
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What exactly do you want them to bring to the discussion that you haven’t been knee deep into already?
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Jul 26, 2019 04:51
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Invalid Validation posted:What exactly do you want them to bring to the discussion that you haven’t been knee deep into already? I think they want the podcast people to have had some kind of life-changing transformative experience with evangelion instead of seeing it as some weird show
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Jul 26, 2019 05:46
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i finished evangelion yesterday yeah
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Jul 26, 2019 09:24
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there was a meme where someone divided evangelion into three parts, i didn't look at it because I was still watching the series, does anyone know what i'm talking about?
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Jul 26, 2019 09:32
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