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One thing that doesn't get played up enough with the Space Marines is that not only are they supposed to be superhuman physically, they are supposed to be mentally enhanced as well - eidetic memory comes as standard, and they are supposed to be able to simply think better than the average man. The Custodes turn this up to 11 - in one scene you have one Eye of the Emperor essentially running planetwide surveillance, singlehandedly
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Oct 2, 2019 22:03
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Is Horus Heresy (and the first book, Horus Rising) a good introduction into 40k? I’m just about finishing the Eisenhorn ómnibus which has been the first thing I’ve read other than some comics. I’ve enjoyed it but I’d like to read something more illuminating about the 40k universe in terms of the major historical points and structure of the imperium. Also stuff about orks.
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Oct 2, 2019 22:54
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Every Inquisitor has their own style of investigation, which includes showing up on main street in full power armor and burning everyone who looks like they might be a witch. Since that's not terribly endearing protagonist inquisitors tend to be the sneaky variety. Sneaky inquisitors are also probably more effective since the real big threats to the Imperium from an internal point of view are the arch-heretics: individuals or small conspiracies of powerful people who know the score re. chaos, xenos, the inquisiton, and have the means to do serious, planetary-scale damage. The fire-and-brimstone inquisitors aren't going to catch these people; at best, they'll wipe out some low level henchmen along with countless thousands of innocent people who had the misfortune of being born with a witchy-looking birthmark or an extra toe or something. Anyone who knows the score is going to get the gently caress out the moment anyone with a capital I on their armour shows up, and will inevitably just start their cult up somewhere else. You have to infiltrate in order to catch these people, and trying to do that with an eight-foot tall barrel chested supersoldier beside you is like showing up to a drug deal in full riot gear. There is a whole legion of space marines dedicated to infiltration and espionage who would be perfect for Inquisition work, were it not for the fact that they sided with Horus and have spent the ensuing 10,000 years (maybe) trying to destroy the Imperium. Guyver posted:Why doesn't every Inquisitor have a space marine? If the novel you're talking about is the one I'm thinking of (spoiler]Rites of Passage[/spoiler]): the inquisitor in question was a member of Ordo Xenos looking into black market trading of xenos goods, and thus by necessity undercover. Both of the situations in which she had to engage in combat were surprises in which she was unable to call for backup. Its entirely possible she did have a space marine on retainer, just not anywhere near her when the fighting started.
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Oct 2, 2019 22:56
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Is Horus Heresy (and the first book, Horus Rising) a good introduction into 40k? I’m just about finishing the Eisenhorn ómnibus which has been the first thing I’ve read other than some comics. I’ve enjoyed it but I’d like to read something more illuminating about the 40k universe in terms of the major historical points and structure of the imperium. Also stuff about orks. I would say no, it's not exactly the best introduction. It's the expanded, mammoth sized tome of 40K's backstory. Really your best bet for an introduction to Warhammer 40,000 would be the 4th edition rulebook's lore section. It gives you the broad strokes. If you like Orks read Deff Skwadron. Avoid the War of the Beast books. They're not good. The first three Horus Heresy books are decent, mind you, but the vast majority of the books are just battlefields while Black Library dragged their heels with stories set after the Drop Site Massacre but before the Siege of Terra. If you're really interested in the 31st Millennium stories, pick and choose, since most of the good books in the line are more character focused stories than major events. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 23:00
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Z the IVth posted:One thing that doesn't get played up enough with the Space Marines is that not only are they supposed to be superhuman physically, they are supposed to be mentally enhanced as well - eidetic memory comes as standard, and they are supposed to be able to simply think better than the average man. The Custodes turn this up to 11 - in one scene you have one Eye of the Emperor essentially running planetwide surveillance, singlehandedly As for Space Marines, I think it depends on if the Chapter places an emphasis on learning beyond war. Just because they're smarter doesn't mean they're interesting in learning anything. SardonicTyrant fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 23:23
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Is Horus Heresy (and the first book, Horus Rising) a good introduction into 40k? I’m just about finishing the Eisenhorn ómnibus which has been the first thing I’ve read other than some comics. I’ve enjoyed it but I’d like to read something more illuminating about the 40k universe in terms of the major historical points and structure of the imperium. Also stuff about orks.
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Oct 3, 2019 00:59
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Is Horus Heresy (and the first book, Horus Rising) a good introduction into 40k? I’m just about finishing the Eisenhorn ómnibus which has been the first thing I’ve read other than some comics. I’ve enjoyed it but I’d like to read something more illuminating about the 40k universe in terms of the major historical points and structure of the imperium. Also stuff about orks. This is actually exactly what I did. Eisenhorn/Ravenor then straight into the heresy. Most won't recommend it, but now that I have finished all of HH and all the notable 40k books I think it was an extremely good way to get into 40k. Seeing the "majesty" of the great crusade followed by the fall and then the current shithole made the 40k era even more, I dunno, 40k. Not gonna find any orks in HH though, but you should at least read the first three HH then you can read some 40k ork books.
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Oct 3, 2019 01:19
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Anybody got a reading order for the "new" 40k stuff? I presume the three Gathering Storm books are first, but then what?
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Oct 3, 2019 02:00
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SardonicTyrant posted:The funny thing is the Custodes actually do the spymaster thing when they 'retire' and become Eyes of the Emperor. I'd love to see an Inquisitor uncover a spy ring and it turns out it's being run by a Custodes. Carrion throne has a tangential relation Inquisitor Crowl sends one of his operatives to figure out what got some minor docking functionary at Terra killed. The op does their digging and thinks they're getting close when they get accosted by some special forces outfit. They make a good show of themselves make it out of the flat only then to run into the thing that's orchestrated the raid on where they were. When they see what's after them their response is "Oh, poo poo". The Inquisitor catches wind of this and that their op is being held in the local arbites precinct. They go in guns ablazing kill a bunch of arbites, untill the orchestrator makes themselves known. The inquisitor's reaction, much like their op is "Oh, poo poo". The custodian then proceeds to hospitalize every person the Inquisitor brought with them which was 1? Or 2? Stormtrooper squads . Only thing we've got so far that's as close as to what you're describing. rocket_Magnet fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 02:32
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Carrion Throne is really really loving good.
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Oct 3, 2019 02:43
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rocket_Magnet posted:Carrion throne has a tangential relation Inquisitor Crowl sends one of his operatives to figure out what got some minor docking functionary at Terra killed. The op does their digging and thinks they're getting close when they get accosted by some special forces outfit. They make a good show of themselves make it out of the flat only then to run into the thing that's orchestrated the raid on where they were. When they see what's after them their response is "Oh, poo poo". The Inquisitor catches wind of this and that their op is being held in the local arbites precinct. They go in guns ablazing kill a bunch of arbites, untill the orchestrator makes themselves known. The inquisitor's reaction, much like their op is "Oh, poo poo". The custodian then proceeds to hospitalize every person the Inquisitor brought with them which was 1? Or 2? Stormtrooper squads . The best part is that you've put the literal quotes from each dude in there, not just a colloquial summary.
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Oct 3, 2019 04:47
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jng2058 posted:Anybody got a reading order for the "new" 40k stuff? I presume the three Gathering Storm books are first, but then what? I recommend dante and devastation of baal for the leadup pre gulliman and also just being fantastic and emotional, and dark imperium, plague war, belisarius cawl the great work is the post gulliman awakening new books pushing the story forward. Spear of the emperor isnt related but is very cool, and space marine conquests the series is all in the new timeline but is a mix of authors and I havent read each one.
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Oct 3, 2019 06:50
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Carrion Throne / Hollow Mountain paint a pretty good picture of what an inquisitor with a decent amount of clout/resources can pull off Crowl maintains a fortress with several storm-trooper squads and a host of support personal along with a few fighter squadrons. This is also what a mid/high level inquisitor who has fallen out of favor feels they need to their job on terra of all places as well.
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Oct 3, 2019 06:59
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Any recommendations for good/ok Mechanicus focused books?
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Oct 3, 2019 07:44
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x1o posted:Any recommendations for good/ok Mechanicus focused books? Dan Abnett's Titanicus. About Titans, naturally enough. Graham McNeill's Mars trilogy (Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars) seems to get generally good reviews in this thread, though I've never read it personally.
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Oct 3, 2019 08:31
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Sharkopath posted:I recommend dante and devastation of baal for the leadup pre gulliman and also just being fantastic and emotional, and dark imperium, plague war, belisarius cawl the great work is the post gulliman awakening new books pushing the story forward. Cool, thanks! And Dante's available on Audible just as my new credits showed up. Well, that decision's easy.
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Oct 3, 2019 18:07
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Khizan posted:Dan Abnett's Titanicus. About Titans, naturally enough. Titanicus is really good, it does have some IG stuff in there, but the real meat and potatoes is loyalist and chaos titans hunting each other through the ruins of a forge world. Abnett manages to bring Das Boot style tension to big stompy mechs crashing around a megacity. The Graham McNeill books are collected in an Omnibus called Forges of Mars and are all pro read. They get a little woo-woo later on, but the first book especially is a great illustration of the sheer insane size and brute force of an Adeptus explorator fleet and expeditionary force. I'd also throw out a recommendation for Graham McNeill's Mechanicum. It's an HH novel, but one of the better ones IMO and does some cool storytelling around the martian schism.
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Oct 3, 2019 18:20
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The Last Wall cover has been revealed. Here is the extended, no-text artwork: https://siegeofterra.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2019/10/Firstwall-HeaderBGElement-1.jpg I like it. Wall looks cool too. That's supposedly Fafnir Rann, and the Iron Warrior is speculated to be Forrix.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:13
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I don't know about Fafnir Rann, but that's almost certainly Forrix. It matches up with his illustration from Collected Visions.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:04
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A suitably grimdark fact about the Adeptus Administratum in the latest Vaults of Terra book is that most record keeping is done on vellum, produced from porcine bred on agri-worlds or from flesh grown in bio-vats. It’s the 7th biggest import to Terra.
Kevin DuBrow fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 06:52
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D-Pad posted:The Last Wall cover has been revealed. Here is the extended, no-text artwork: https://siegeofterra.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2019/10/Firstwall-HeaderBGElement-1.jpg That is fully sick.
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Oct 4, 2019 09:00
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It's a really nice Renaissance-styled "battle scene" which does a whole pile of "here are the three people you care about and some mooks to make it look heroic, look man I wasn't there okay?" unrealistic combat. I'm sure if you know how to "read" a painting right this is full of symbolism.
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Oct 4, 2019 11:40
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So I finished Carrion Throne, is Hollow Mountain the direct sequel or should I go through Emperor's Legion first? I don't mind Custards but I'm more into =][=?
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Oct 4, 2019 14:52
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Kevin DuBrow posted:A suitably grimdark fact about the Adeptus Administratum in the latest Vaults of Terra book is that most record keeping is done on vellum, produced from porcine bred on agri-worlds or from flesh grown in bio-vats. It’s the 7th biggest import to Terra. And they even admit it's a ridiculous way to go about things. Schadenboner posted:So I finished Carrion Throne, is Hollow Mountain the direct sequel or should I go through Emperor's Legion first? I don't mind Custards but I'm more into =][=? Hollow Mountain picks up right on the heels of Carrion Throne. I read them back to back and it seems to be the way to go.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:19
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So GW did a big Warhammer TV thing about the psychic awakening. I didn't watch this, but here is a breakdown from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/ddfonp/interesting_stuff_from_the_psychic_awakening/ So basically the 100 year era of the Indomitus crusade is the new setting for the lore for the next few years at least. The awakening started when the rift opened and will effect all factions and the psychic awakening will be exploring all that. They reiterated they are not interested in telling a linear story with 40k. It looks like I was right in my recent post about GW "leveling up" the power levels across the board for all factions. I like the idea of making big changes to the setting by advancing the story/timeline and then taking a 4-6 year pause to explore all of the different factions and how they were effected and what they did. Then move it forward another hundred years and repeat. D-Pad fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 03:19
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So the end of the indomitus crusade and the ensuing attacks against Ultramar are the new 13th Black Crusade status quo?
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Oct 5, 2019 03:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:So the end of the indomitus crusade and the ensuing attacks against Ultramar are the new 13th Black Crusade status quo? I mean the Dark Imperium series and the new Cawl novel are technically after the end of the crusade so I doubt it's an ironclad rule and they will have some stuff outside the norm, but for the most part it sounds like it. They'll probably take that plot thread slowly moving forward and use it to setup the next jump if that is what they do. They won't stay in this era forever because they have seen what a boost to sales new stuff is. Like I said above, I bet they move forward every 4-6 years and then pause to explore again.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:26
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Do they ever explain why the Primarchs tolerate the Night Lords being space terrorists and the Emperor ok'ing it?
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Oct 6, 2019 00:34
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SardonicTyrant posted:Do they ever explain why the Primarchs tolerate the Night Lords being space terrorists and the Emperor ok'ing it? Subjugation force by means of unseen and indiscriminate terror. Pretty much a foil to the Space Wolves very direct force. They're the Batmen of the legions.
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Oct 6, 2019 01:49
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SardonicTyrant posted:Do they ever explain why the Primarchs tolerate the Night Lords being space terrorists and the Emperor ok'ing it? Almost every HH book seems to have a character remarking on how one of the other chapters just kills everybody in compliance campaigns without even trying to ask for surrenders. Night Lords are just another name on the pile.
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Oct 6, 2019 02:01
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SardonicTyrant posted:Do they ever explain why the Primarchs tolerate the Night Lords being space terrorists and the Emperor ok'ing it? It's heavily implied that behind the psychic glamour that effects most viewpoint characters the Emperor is ruthless, brutal dictator. At the start of First Heretic he sends Malcador and the Ultramarines to flatten the city of Monarchia Fallen Hamprince fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 04:28
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The Emperor approved of the Night Lords methods. He also approved of the World Eaters methods. The Primarchs don't get to have a public opinion about the other Primarchs because it's all PR.
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Oct 6, 2019 04:45
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Fallen Hamprince posted:It's heavily implied that behind the psychic glamour that effects most viewpoint characters the Emperor is ruthless, brutal dictator. At the start of First Heretic he sends Malcador and the Ultramarines to flatten the city of Monarchia and murder its entire population because its builders, the Word Bearers, weren't conquering planets for him fast enough. That wasn't a problem with the Night Lords, who had such a horrific reputation even before the Heresy that the mere rumor of their presence in a crusade fleet was enough to make hostile planets compliant. Their being unstable psychopaths wasn't going to be a problem forever anyway, because it's implied that he planned to wipe out the Space Marines just like he did with his previous super-soldier army, the Thunder Warriors. Didn't they ostensibly evacuate Monarchia before leveling it?
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Oct 6, 2019 04:48
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Inspector_666 posted:Didn't they ostensibly evacuate Monarchia before leveling it? I don't remember reading that. The Word Bearer's prophet lady had her eyes burned out by the orbital bombardment which makes it sound like they didn't give a whole lot of warning. E: Huh, rereading First Heretic it looks like they did. Very nice of Guilliman, Russ sure didn't do the same when he BBQed Prospero. Fallen Hamprince fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 04:53
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Fallen Hamprince posted:I don't remember reading that. The Word Bearer's prophet lady had her eyes burned out by the orbital bombardment which makes it sound like they didn't give a whole lot of warning. They gave decent enough warning, thpough that also involved 'evacuating' some recalcitrants from life with bolters . And then they glassed the cities and left the population to starve and fight and tear at each other for 3 months in the outskirts of the burned cities. So yeah, gently caress Guilliman. At least Angron is honest. Him telling Russ that if the Nails hadn't turned him into a frothing ragemonster he'd still be moral enough to behead the Emperor instead of just contenting himself with petty slaughter was beautiful.
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Oct 6, 2019 06:05
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Fallen Hamprince posted:It's heavily implied that behind the psychic glamour that effects most viewpoint characters the Emperor is ruthless, brutal dictator. At the start of First Heretic he sends Malcador and the Ultramarines to flatten the city of Monarchia They leveled Monarchia because the Word Bearers had taken to building shrines to the Emperor, instructing conquered planets to worship him and Monarchia was flattened as an example, though? I know Lorgar mentions that he never earned as much glory by speedily completing campaigns on account of taking more time for the whole worship workshops, but that was extremely far from the main offense of breaching ~THE IMPERIAL TRUTH~.
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Oct 6, 2019 06:40
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Duzzy Funlop posted:They leveled Monarchia because the Word Bearers had taken to building shrines to the Emperor, instructing conquered planets to worship him and Monarchia was flattened as an example, though? I know Lorgar mentions that he never earned as much glory by speedily completing campaigns on account of taking more time for the whole worship workshops, but that was extremely far from the main offense of breaching ~THE IMPERIAL TRUTH~. From the Emp's speech in First Heretic it sounds like they're weighted about equally. "You number more warriors than any other, excepting the XIII. Yet your conquests are the slowest, and your victories ring hollow". They're conquering too slowly, and your conquests are worthless because they still aren't compliant and have to have the new religion beaten out of them once Lorgar has finally moved on. My (cynical) reading of this is that the real reason for the chewing-out at Monarchia is the slowness. Lorgar's been pushing the Imperial Creed for close to a century, starting immediately after he got picked up from Colchis. If the Emperor-worship was the main problem, the Emperor would have confronted Lorgar about it decades and decades before Monarchia, and certainly wouldn't have let Lorgar go around spreading it non-stop. It's only when the Word Bearers start bogging down their crusade fleets for years preaching and building temples that it becomes a big enough deal to necessitate a confrontation. Even worse, the harder the Word Bearers go at preaching the longer it takes for the Emperor's iterators to clean up after him. If Lorgar had kept up an average pace relative to the other legions and stopped the preaching at saying "BTW my dad's a God" upon compliance then the result wouldn't be any worse than the wanton destruction of the World Eaters or Space Wolves. If the Emperor was really that alarmed about people worshiping him he wouldn't have maintained a gigantic cult of personality around himself as humanity's sole ruler even after it became clear that he was being perceived as a deity. Fallen Hamprince fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 07:05
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Fallen Hamprince posted:From the Emp's speech in First Heretic it sounds like they're weighted about equally. "You number more warriors than any other, excepting the XIII. Yet your conquests are the slowest, and your victories ring hollow". They're conquering too slowly, and your conquests are worthless because they still aren't compliant and have to have the new religion beaten out of them once Lorgar has finally moved on. I think you're interpreting too much into the latter part of that phrase, it basically just underlines the disappointment and emphasizes that the Word Bearers' expeditions lack the glory of the other legions. Not being super fast about your conquery-doos is something other legions do as well, but they don't have examples made of their jewel-planets, nor is their big kahuna censured in front of the entire legion. The main offense of non-compliance was breaking with imperial truth by worshipping Emps, and it's the very first accusation both Malcador and big Easy level at him in response to his question why it was bombed. quote:‘What have you done to my city?’ Lorgar’s voice was a hissing whisper, spoken through a false smile. quote:‘You are a general, my son. Not a high priest. You were created for war, for conquest, to reunite the human race under the aegis of truth.’ It's pretty clear that Monarchia was wiped because it in itself was the jewel of non-compliance through worship. The "being slow" aspect is only mentioned as an ancillary consequence of lingering too long after conquering a planet, and that quote is addressed at the assembled Word Bearers while Lorgar is still on the time-out chair after Emps silences him. A lot of the opening books of HH go into detail how religion and worship are crimes against the Imperium of the highest order, all the parts where the illegality of the Lectitio Devinitatututerü are emphasized really drive that home. But drat, just scrolling through the opening pages of that book on Calibre makes me want to pick that book up again. Fallen Hamprince posted:If the Emperor-worship was the main problem, the Emperor would have confronted Lorgar about it decades and decades before Monarchia, That's exactly what happened, though? Lorgar was warned multiple times iirc, and Monarchia was the punishment. Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 07:49
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Duzzy Funlop posted:But drat, just scrolling through the opening pages of that book on Calibre makes me want to pick that book up again. It's really good. E: quote:That's exactly what happened, though? Lorgar was warned multiple times iirc, and Monarchia was the punishment. That's the thing though. I assumed I was wrong and he had been warned, but then I came across this dialogue between Magnus and Lorgar: quote:At last, Lorgar smiled, bleak and unamused. ‘Perhaps he did bring meaning. But he did not bring the meaning humanity needs. That’s what matters.’ In a weird way this actually makes me think that maybe the Emperor-worship was the reason for the confrontation at Monarchia, because it makes it suggests that the Emperor initially didn't care at all but then something changed relatively suddenly. Did the Emperor learn something that led him to conclude that letting people worship him was dangerous? Fallen Hamprince fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 09:23
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It might be reading too much into it but I could just as easily read this Lorgar not taking any real notice of denials or warnings earlier. It takes Monarchia to actually get him to understand. I can easily see the Emperor telling Lorgar, 'I'm not a God, stop saying that' and Lorgar going 'yup sure, not a God *wink*' and taking not actually being publicly rebuked as encouragement. At the scale of the Great Crusade, a century of activity I can well see as being short enough that his actions genuinely have only just come to light. There's so much going on if there weren't obvious issues or calls for assistance the Emperor wouldn't be naturally intervening or noticing.
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Oct 6, 2019 13:19
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