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jng2058 posted:Few chapters are at full strength, and there are almost certainly a lot less than a thousand surviving chapters. Less than a thousand? I thought there'd be a lot more chapters than that. Some relatively smaller ones, sure, but still.
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Oct 8, 2019 00:44
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Less than a thousand? I thought there'd be a lot more chapters than that. Some relatively smaller ones, sure, but still. The optimal strength of the Adeptus Astartes per the Codex Astartes was a thousand chapters of a thousand Marines each. Whether they ever reached that number is debatable, especially since they've had a bunch of chapters go rogue, and a lot more get wiped out. We have to recall that when Bobby G broke the legions down into thousand man chapters in the Second Founding, the most chapters any one legion had was the Ultramarines, and there were only twenty four of those, with the other legions far fewer. Counting the known or suspected Second Founding chapters, there may have been as few as 60,000 loyalist Marines to survive the Heresy total. To raise that number to a million Marines, considering how hard it is to make a Marine, and the fact that they're in deadly combat all the drat time, would be an immense achievement. To think that there are still a million Marines in early m42 after half the Imperium has lost the Astronomicon and the Tyrannids have been eating whole subsectors like candy is greatly optimistic. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 01:17
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Randalor posted:Guilliman has his final showdown against Daemon-Fulgrim, slays him with the anathema sword, and then Fulgrim wakes up in a tube and Trazyn wonders when the hell did his mint-condition Primarch get a pure daemon-free soul. Isn't Fulgrim's untainted variant soul still mint-on-card aboard the Emperor's Children flagship? In the painting over the theater. That would be a pretty wild reunion.
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Oct 8, 2019 01:38
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MrNemo posted:Considering he's a Daemon Prince now that seems unlikely...
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Oct 8, 2019 03:09
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Arquinsiel posted:The thing is, assuming that the whole "switch sides" fan theory is a thing GW are going for, the setup where the Primarchs are implied to be daemons contained in physical forms means that it's not really that big a deal for one to "become" a Daemon Prince. Just change your aura or something dude, I dunno. Even if they pull the trigger on redeeming Fulgrim, which they do seem to have laid the foundations for, what with the clone of Fulgrim in stasis and his soul all Dorain Grey'd in that portrait, that would just lead to the next question....what happens to the Emperor's Children? Those guys are all various percentages of the way to becoming Slaanesh daemons. Does Fulgrim coming back really do anything to change Fabius Bile's attitude? Or Lucius'? Does your average Noise Marine even remember life pre-Heresy anymore? And what happens if Fulgrim goes to war with his own legion? Could be kinda interesting, frankly.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:44
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Arquinsiel posted:The thing is, assuming that the whole "switch sides" fan theory is a thing GW are going for, the setup where the Primarchs are implied to be daemons contained in physical forms means that it's not really that big a deal for one to "become" a Daemon Prince. Just change your aura or something dude, I dunno. And the funny thing is, given Corax's most recent (as far as canon goes) confrontation with Lorgar, it's debateable whether daemon princedom for a primarch is even that much of an upgrade. Spoilers: Corax confronts Lorgar in the Eye and has fully embraced his warp-based nature but is still loyal to the Imperium insofar as he really wants to personally tear out every traitor primarch's guts. He blends a bunch of Word Bearers trying to stop him, and would have skewered Lorgar for good if other Word Bearers hadn't delayed him long enough for Lorgar to jet. jng2058 posted:Even if they pull the trigger on redeeming Fulgrim, which they do seem to have laid the foundations for, what with the clone of Fulgrim in stasis and his soul all Dorain Grey'd in that portrait, that would just lead to the next question....what happens to the Emperor's Children? Those guys are all various percentages of the way to becoming Slaanesh daemons. Does Fulgrim coming back really do anything to change Fabius Bile's attitude? Or Lucius'? Does your average Noise Marine even remember life pre-Heresy anymore? And what happens if Fulgrim goes to war with his own legion? Obviously they'll set Fulgrim up with some loyalist stepchildren for him to mention, such as those famous sons of Dorn, the Sons of the Phoenix.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:01
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obviously Cawl will turn out to have some EC Primaris prototypes lying around, extremely fortuitously.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:08
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moths posted:Isn't Fulgrim's untainted variant soul still mint-on-card aboard the Emperor's Children flagship? In the painting over the theater. I have always taken this to be true, although it is never explicitly stated. Reading the two stories that deal with the painting, I believe it is implicitly telling us that the demon was never driven back out and replaced with Fulgrim's soul during the torture the EC put him to. The demon lied and convinced the EC he was the real Fulgrim. People have argued about this though so it isn't for sure.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:15
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Pyrolocutus posted:And the funny thing is, given Corax's most recent (as far as canon goes) confrontation with Lorgar, it's debateable whether daemon princedom for a primarch is even that much of an upgrade. Spoilers: Corax confronts Lorgar in the Eye and has fully embraced his warp-based nature but is still loyal to the Imperium insofar as he really wants to personally tear out every traitor primarch's guts. He blends a bunch of Word Bearers trying to stop him, and would have skewered Lorgar for good if other Word Bearers hadn't delayed him long enough for Lorgar to jet. What book is this from? quote:Obviously they'll set Fulgrim up with some loyalist stepchildren for him to mention, such as those famous sons of Dorn, the Sons of the Phoenix. Aren't the Red Scorpions (or whoever Forge World's super special Original Chapter Do Not Steal is) hinted at to be loyalist Emporer's children too?
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Oct 8, 2019 04:32
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Technowolf posted:What book is this from? It's from a limited release anthology. Shadow of the Past in Sons of the Emperor. You can find bits and pieces around if not the whole thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8sfhb6/book_excerptshadow_of_the_past_two_primarchs_meet/ EDIT: 'I am what I always have been,' said Corax. 'I am vengeance incarnate. I am justice delivered. This place, beyond the veil, has revealed what we all are. Underneath the veneer of humanity our father crafted for us, we are of the warp.' 'Have you come to make oath to the powers that are your true creator?' 'No. I swore to destroy all Chaos taint from the galaxy. You will be the first fallen brother to die beneath my blades.' 'I am not the creature you fought at Isstvan,' said Lorgar, raising his mace. 'Nor am I!' Kalta-Ar barely followed the lunge of Corax, so swift it was. A black wind threw him aside as dark fire crackled from the rod of Lorgar. With a thunderous shockwave that hurled the Word Bearers to the ground, the two demigods clashed.
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Oct 8, 2019 05:16
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Biplane posted:obviously Cawl will turn out to have some EC Primaris prototypes lying around, extremely fortuitously. Cawl has access to their pre heresy genetic material and only promised guilliman he wouldnt do experiments on the traitor or lost legion primaris. But what's a promise worth nowadays honestly?
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Oct 8, 2019 06:33
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Sharkopath posted:Cawl has access to their pre heresy genetic material and only promised guilliman he wouldnt do experiments on the traitor or lost legion primaris. Cawl absolutely has "Better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission" etched into his carapace somewhere.
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Oct 8, 2019 06:48
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Biplane posted:obviously Cawl will turn out to have some EC Primaris prototypes lying around, extremely fortuitously. Sharkopath posted:Cawl has access to their pre heresy genetic material and only promised guilliman he wouldnt do experiments on the traitor or lost legion primaris. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_the_Phoenix
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Oct 8, 2019 07:29
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As much as it's fun for Lorgar to get dunked on, I got the impression that by the time Betrayer comes around he's fully powered up to proper primarch levels and no longer the runt on the brink of getting Russ'd.
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Oct 8, 2019 07:46
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Dog_Meat posted:As much as it's fun for Lorgar to get dunked on, I got the impression that by the time Betrayer comes around he's fully powered up to proper primarch levels and no longer the runt on the brink of getting Russ'd. He got proper dunked on by Guilliman in betrayer and only survived because Angron stepped in.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:01
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Demiurge4 posted:He got proper dunked on by Guilliman in betrayer and only survived because Angron stepped in. I really should re-read that book at some point as it's part of one of the better trilogies in the series. I kinda rushed through it first time round. I remember Lorgar delivering some massive warp storm and Magnus noticing how much more powerful he is, but the only combat I remember is the World Eater stuff Plus... it's Gulliman. A very pissed off, raging Gulliman and Lorgar is nowhere near that group of "four, maybe five at most. AT MOST" brothers who have a chance against him. Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 11:43
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Dog_Meat posted:I really should re-read that book at some point as it's part of one of the better trilogies in the series. I kinda rushed through it first time round. I remember Lorgar delivering some massive warp storm and Magnus noticing how much more powerful he is, but the only combat I remember is the World Eater stuff Lorgar's psychic abilities in Betrayer are insanely powerful (to the point where I was like "Wait what?" when he first uses them) but if you punch him in the face he's still Lorgar.
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Oct 8, 2019 16:22
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jng2058 posted:Even if they pull the trigger on redeeming Fulgrim, which they do seem to have laid the foundations for, what with the clone of Fulgrim in stasis and his soul all Dorain Grey'd in that portrait, that would just lead to the next question....what happens to the Emperor's Children? Those guys are all various percentages of the way to becoming Slaanesh daemons. Does Fulgrim coming back really do anything to change Fabius Bile's attitude? Or Lucius'? Does your average Noise Marine even remember life pre-Heresy anymore? And what happens if Fulgrim goes to war with his own legion? Sharkopath posted:Cawl has access to their pre heresy genetic material and only promised guilliman he wouldnt do experiments on the traitor or lost legion primaris. they've laid the groundwork for this too 
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Oct 8, 2019 17:06
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Inspector_666 posted:Lorgar's psychic abilities in Betrayer are insanely powerful (to the point where I was like "Wait what?" when he first uses them) but if you punch him in the face he's still Lorgar. I raised an eyebrown during First Heretic when a single custode on a backwater planet basically says "right, that's it - I'm taking you in you wet sack of whiny poo poo" to a goddam primarch and a room full of space marines. I know they were calling him the weakling primarch and custodes have been able to plough through regular marines, but it still seemed a bit over confident. Especially when up to that point we had see 2 custodes consider squaring up to Dorn and 6 marines and he was all "really, son? really?" (Bloodgames, I think) .
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Oct 8, 2019 18:54
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DirtyRobot posted:they've laid the groundwork for this too Yeah, Cawl, I don't think that's what Imperial Fist descendants look or act like...
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Oct 8, 2019 18:58
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jng2058 posted:Anybody got a reading order for the "new" 40k stuff? I presume the three Gathering Storm books are first, but then what? I would suggest (In this order): Cadia Stands *Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion *Dark Imperium Devastation of Baal *Dark Imperium: Plague War * must read At the very least Watchers first followed by Dark Imperium. They go hand in hand and are two of my favorite 40k books to date. Philthy fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 19:14
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Philthy posted:I would suggest (In this order): Where exactly does watchers fit in in the timeline? Cadia has fallen, but before the indomitus crusade?
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Oct 8, 2019 19:19
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Sharkopath posted:Cawl has access to their pre heresy genetic material and only promised guilliman he wouldnt do experiments on the traitor or lost legion primaris. If Guilliman complains, Cawl can always remind him about his "promise" to Cypher.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:23
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Where exactly does watchers fit in in the timeline? Cadia has fallen, but before the indomitus crusade? Watchers happens before, during, and after Cadia I believe, or in that same-ish time period. The happenings of Cadia Stands sets you up to why hell is breaking loose everywhere else. I don't want to give away anything other than the battles in Watchers that takes place is loving epic+++++. Philthy fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 19:50
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The Watchers books are standalone, right? Obviously knowing the context of Gathering Storm is helpful but they're their own story, yes?
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Oct 8, 2019 20:05
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I got the impression most, if not all, of Watchers takes place after Cadia falls, they just don’t know it.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:05
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Inspector_666 posted:Cawl absolutely has "Better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission" etched into his carapace somewhere. probably the first thought he remembers after he gets mindwiped/mindwipes himself Relevant Tangent fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 20:13
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Watchers books are standalone, right? Obviously knowing the context of Gathering Storm is helpful but they're their own story, yes? yes, but there's a few mentions to wider events. Like the red swath cutting off half of the galaxy's economies in the chartist headquarters. Bet they wish they didn't set that data visualization to automatically upload!
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Oct 8, 2019 20:14
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Cat Army 
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a thousand astropaths died so that they could know "number go down" in the part of the galaxy cut off from the Emperor's Light
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Oct 8, 2019 20:17
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Biplane posted:I got the impression most, if not all, of Watchers takes place after Cadia falls, they just don’t know it. Yeah, looking back it makes sense why they were having so much trouble getting around is because Cadia was kinda hosed at that point. This is making me want to reread it again. I read them out of order initially and always wished I had done them the correct way as the lead-in is metal af.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:18
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Carrion Throne and Hollow Mountain should absolutely be post-rift must reads. Not exactly sure where they would fall in reading order though.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:24
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D-Pad posted:Carrion Throne and Hollow Mountain should absolutely be post-rift must reads. Not exactly sure where they would fall in reading order though. They take place concurrently with rift arc. Hollow Mountain spoiler The plot thread of the homunculus actually wanting to complete his part of the deal at first but was driven mad by the absolute weight of the pain and misery on terra was cooler than I expected. This ties in with the latest dark eldar codex showing the eldar had built a replica golden throne on some random planet and the uhhh 5th? edition codex claiming the plan to trade something to fix the throne succeeded though it might be getting retconned
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Oct 8, 2019 21:14
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Philthy posted:I would suggest (In this order): I would personally recommend Devastation of Baal, but then I do have a Blood Angels army so admitted bias there. And would say skip Cadia stands which I was very unimpressed with.
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Oct 8, 2019 23:27
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Well, following earlier advice, I started with Dante, and am in the middle of Devastation of Baal, and since I already know the broadstrokes of what happens, I'm nodding along with every garbled report from the Blood Angel task force at Cadia. It's working for me so far.
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Oct 9, 2019 00:51
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jng2058 posted:Well, following earlier advice, I started with Dante, and am in the middle of Devastation of Baal, and since I already know the broadstrokes of what happens, I'm nodding along with every garbled report from the Blood Angel task force at Cadia. It's working for me so far. I think Guy Haley always starts out pretty weak and doesn't write immediately gripping battle scenes compared to the dembski-bowden or abnett I've read but he builds up the characters more and more until I'm hooked until the finale. Baal is my favorite of all the books I've read so far by a big margin. I finished David Annadale's Neferata: Mortach of Blood since it's halloween time and they've been advertising preorders for its sequel and despite being a compelling enough political thriller from a villain's perspective with some very dark and gruesome scenery, the feeling I was left with the most was: Why doesn't everybody just move away from Neferata's city? Vampire or Human it just sounds like a nightmare world where your queen will murder you and your entire family and all your servants constantly as part of her wheels within wheels plans. Even Commorragh sounds more appealing. I guarantee she kills more of her citizens than any enemy in a given year. There has to be somewhere else in the realms for a vampire to live. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 9, 2019 |
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Oct 9, 2019 01:05
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Apparently there's a scene where Vulkan embraces Rogal Dorn who's weary of planning for the siege and I can't help but imagine how awkard it must look to hug someone in power armor
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Oct 9, 2019 02:39
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Sharkopath posted:I think Guy Haley always starts out pretty weak and doesn't write immediately gripping battle scenes compared to the dembski-bowden or abnett I've read but he builds up the characters more and more until I'm hooked until the finale. Baal is my favorite of all the books I've read so far by a big margin. Well I imagine ditching Neferata will bring Nagash's wrath down on you. Also her only Vampire Equal is the probably even worse Mannfred.
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Oct 9, 2019 03:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well I imagine ditching Neferata will bring Nagash's wrath down on you. Also her only Vampire Equal is the probably even worse Mannfred. I haven't read the books it happens in but Mannfred in Sigmar times built up a city that was trying to replicate old sylvania including dressing up animated skeletons like vlad and isabella but it really just bummed him out after a while so he left it behind entirely and just wanders the world doing jobs and things for nagash. He seems to have chilled out compared to the old world and isn't interested in backstabbing allies anymore, although hes still hella murdery when hes doing war. There are some other vampire cities you could move to that are still under Nagash control but another strike against staying in nulamia is Mortarch of Blood spoilers: By the end of the book this is the second time she has entirely destroyed her city and gotten almost every mortal and vampire killed. But at least its still her city!! Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Oct 9, 2019 |
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Oct 9, 2019 05:02
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I just finished the first part of the Salamanders Omnibus and I'm a little confused. The first Orc army on Scoria got bigger every time someone mentioned it ("Thousands". Then "many thousands. Then "tens of thousands") and a single company beat them all. Then a second army that was even bigger landed before their asteroid was blown up. And they beat that one too. Um What? I know fluff Space Marines are badasses, but  .
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Oct 9, 2019 17:19
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So is anybody going to the BL Weekender next month? BL sent an email out today with what will be available for purchase this year: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/09/black-library-weekender-books-and-more/ Looks like the new Sabbat Worlds Crusade coffee table book and The First Wall are the big ones I am interested in. We also got our first confirmation of the Dante/Devastation of Baal sequel Darkness in Blood. New Mephiston novel and several horror books as well. They are also releasing an anthology of all Dan Abnett's short stories from 40k and HH.
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Oct 9, 2019 22:16
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