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Gripweed posted:Gundam Wing has really good female characters. There's a variety of women with different opinions and philosophies, most of whom have stories outside their love interest. And Relena is one of the real driving forces of the show. On the other hand, it has Noin, who people often hold up as a bastion of cool and strength in a show filled with crazy for some reason, but who is one of the worst examples of female writing in the franchise in my opinion. Her introduction is set up with Zech's musing that she was probably the best pilot in his year at the training academy, but deliberately sabotaged her scores to make him look better while he's en-route to her base before she recounts exactly how many days it's been since the two of them met when she turns up in person, in a way that makes her seem very desperate for his attention and validation. She then spends a large part of the show looking after Relena because she thinks it's what he would want her to do, and then when she finally meets Zechs again near the finale, she freezes up and can't act when in a fight with him, before abandoning the Gundam pilots to join Zechs instead, despite knowing that he's trying to start a war that'll encompass the entire setting, while telling Zechs that she won't try to stop him but that she just wants to be by his side. After which Quatre basically just shrugs and says that they should let her go. She's definitely superficially cool, because she gets some decent action scenes, saving Sally, slicing up mobile dolls etc, but it's also definitely superficial. While Sally Po and Dorothy exist, and while Relena has some agency and narrative purpose outside the love interest factor, the women in Wing also revolve heavily around the men in their lives. Including Relena, but certainly not confined to her. Lady Une developed a split personality purely so she could serve Trieze better as well, as another example. drrockso20 posted:Yes, I think it might have been one of those ideas from either the Novel version or from the plans from when MSG was going to have 52 episodes instead of what it ended up having I'm pretty sure it's not in the novels and it's definitely not in the brief summary of the original outline for the cancelled episodes that was released at the very least, so I really doubt it is. I think it's more just Yaz's ideas on how things could/should have gone, rather than the original intention or Tomino's interpretation of how they should have gone filtered through Yaz. Beltorchika also exists to replace Sayla's intended role in Zeta as far as I'm aware, so you could kind of look to her to see how Tomino intended to use the character in future to some degree. I don't doubt there were some changes even if Sayla was originally intended to fill that role, but I'd also say it's a good indication that he never intended to make her all that important in the grand scheme of things the way that she is in The Origin. tsob fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 08:55
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The thing I like best about Relena is that people continuously gently caress up regarding what her actual goals and motivations are. Even when she expressly states them in Endless Waltz. Namely; she doesn't really believe in Absolute Pacifism and seems entirely on board with having her own weapons to defend her ideals. Noin and others seemed to assume that she would hold those ideas, after all, she is a Peacecraft, but Relena herself fully admits she doesn't even understand the principles of it. She's mostly using it as a tool to gently caress with the Romefeller Foundation, and later to attempt to get Zechs to stop fighting. But when it comes to her actual beliefs, it's that you should fight for what you believe in. The most standout moment of this is when Noin and her butler are talking in the Sanc kingdom about their hidden MS team, and they think they have to keep it a secret from her because she'd never accept it, it'd go against her principles. Followed by Heero flat out telling her to her face and her giving the equivalent of "Yeah, sounds good."
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Oct 11, 2019 09:16
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Watched the new Divers and it seemed okay so far. I kind of like how the MC comes across as melancholy and distracted, especially compared to how the other Build MCs are pretty upbeat kids. It's interesting that while he's got skills and history with the game, he's really only playing it just to look for an online friend. I laughed at the part where the they all freaked out that the default team name was "BUILD DIVERS" and how they couldn't take the name. May just changing it to "BUILD DiVERS" and going "There, it's completely changed and 100% original!" is like adding a whole bunch of numbers and x's to the end of your MMO character name.  Still, I'm being cautiously optimistic about it and hoping it doesn't devolve into another Sarah situation. Onmi posted:Continuing to gush, I like how her, Kai and Amuro sorta formed their own little trio at the end while Hayato really was on the outs from them because Hayato... didn't really struggle or have to come to terms with the loss of war. His entire thing was "gently caress I can't even keep up, that's just the limit of a normal human I guess." This reminded me of that Origin side story that focused on Hayato right after the war, and it had him getting on his knees and begging Amuro not to take Frau away from him. Even his own side story presented him as an absolute goober. 
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Oct 11, 2019 10:30
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Episode 1 of Divers was pretty good(I especially liked how in the opening part the guy with the GM Sniper was using a Buster Rifle, and the guy with the Alex had modified his shield so he could fire his gatling through it), episode 2 was kinda a drag and they focused a little too hard on having everyone besides our main character be incompetent at fighting, hopefully that won't be a recurring thing
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Oct 11, 2019 10:41
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drrockso20 posted:and the guy with the Alex had modified his shield so he could fire his gatling through it I think this is a feature of a recently released Alex model. An MG 2.0 or some sort of new HGUC? Something like that. Not surprising they'd advertise it, but quite neat all the same.
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Oct 11, 2019 10:51
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drrockso20 posted:Episode 1 of Divers was pretty good(I especially liked how in the opening part the guy with the GM Sniper was using a Buster Rifle, and the guy with the Alex had modified his shield so he could fire his gatling through it), episode 2 was kinda a drag and they focused a little too hard on having everyone besides our main character be incompetent at fighting, hopefully that won't be a recurring thing The girl with the WaDom seems reasonably competent. It's just that the Knight Justice guy is not anything even remotely approaching a team player.
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Oct 11, 2019 11:03
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drrockso20 posted:Episode 1 of Divers was pretty good(I especially liked how in the opening part the guy with the GM Sniper was using a Buster Rifle, and the guy with the Alex had modified his shield so he could fire his gatling through it), episode 2 was kinda a drag and they focused a little too hard on having everyone besides our main character be incompetent at fighting, hopefully that won't be a recurring thing If the friend the MC was searching for was the previous world champion of GBN or something, then that'd at least explain his skills. Plus it seemed only Kazami and Par are the inexperienced ones. May looks like she knows exactly what she's doing. But yeah, here's hoping it doesn't end up with the MC being everyone's crutch in fights. tsob posted:I'm pretty sure it's not in the novels and it's definitely not in the brief summary of the original outline for the cancelled episodes that was released at the very least, so I really doubt it is. I thought it was mentioned in Gundam Sousei, but the only thing there that was kind of similar was a plot outline of Sayla meeting Degwin in secret.
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Oct 11, 2019 11:15
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Darth Walrus posted:The girl with the WaDom seems reasonably competent. It's just that the Knight Justice guy is not anything even remotely approaching a team player. To be fair, our hero isn't much of one himself, given his habit of using his teammates as bait, but at least he bails them out after. It's a nice little trait. Show's probably not going to be great, but having more areas of basic competence is nice compared to the first one. Speaking of questionable competence, I was thinking about McGillis on IBO today, and how his big plan worked. Now, it's not as stupid as it sometimes sounds, given his position, but the most interesting thing for me? He assumed he was in a Gundam show, or at least a broad stereotype of one. If you have more Gundams and the protagonists on your side, you're sure to beat the desk jockey corrupt politician. And in some past shows, he would have been right. He was even up against a tragic cybernewtype analogue. It should have been a lock! Unfortunately for him, it wasn't that kind of show.
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Oct 11, 2019 11:34
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chiasaur11 posted:To be fair, our hero isn't much of one himself, given his habit of using his teammates as bait, but at least he bails them out after. I love how you can tell just how everything's going to go and exactly how things are going to end for McGillis and Tekkadan the moment he pulls out the Bael Gundam and the Seven Star's response is "...You got in the Bael Gundam... so what?  " instead of kowtowing to his authority immediately...
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Oct 11, 2019 13:14
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Blockhouse posted:I pretty much have to take people's words on G-Reco having good female characters since at the point I fell off one of them was still weirdly infantilized I remember watching it as it was broadcast and the pink haired tough lady cried (the only normally written woman on the cast but also the only character to cry) in every episode and by the time I was at episode 3 or 4 and she was shown crying in the next episode preview I bailed. Seemed repetitive and more weird Tomino women poo poo. Pretty sure the Gundam thread at the time called me an idiot too 
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Oct 11, 2019 14:56
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She's not actually meant to be a tough character. She's clearly only trying to be, and it's not going so great early on.
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Oct 11, 2019 15:03
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amigolupus posted:This reminded me of that Origin side story that focused on Hayato right after the war, and it had him getting on his knees and begging Amuro not to take Frau away from him. Even his own side story presented him as an absolute goober. Hayato was such a goober. Guy got fat, poor Frau settled rather than meet literally anyone else, and then their adopted son blew himself up in an ill-considered attempt to live up to his hero. Meanwhile Kai goes all adventurer with a dapper white suit, Amuro went to hippy heaven and Sayla retired with her fat stacks of
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Oct 11, 2019 15:06
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I don't know. Hayato was actually kind of cool in Zeta. He started and lead an underground militia to combat the Federation's excess, while Amuro was just hiding away from his fears under house arrest and Sayla had retired and stopped trying to help society in general.
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Oct 11, 2019 15:14
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tsob posted:I don't know. Hayato was actually kind of cool in Zeta. He started and lead an underground militia to combat the Federation's excess, while Amuro was just hiding away from his fears under house arrest and Sayla had retired and stopped trying to help society in general. That's a way to look at it. I always saw Hayato leading Karaba as a bit of a napoleon complex. He was still trying to 'beat' Amuro even then, because well... the kids didn't want to be like him, they wanted to be like Amuro.
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Oct 11, 2019 18:12
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Meanwhile Kai went off and became an investigative journalist/information broker/spy until as late as Gundam Unicorn, a job which he's clearly pretty good at seeing as he's been doing it successfully for about a decade by the time he acted as rendezvous for the Garencies.
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Oct 11, 2019 19:21
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Onmi posted:That's a way to look at it. I always saw Hayato leading Karaba as a bit of a napoleon complex. He was still trying to 'beat' Amuro even then, because well... the kids didn't want to be like him, they wanted to be like Amuro. By the standards of "former Gundam cast character", even if that was his reason for running Karaba, he's still upper percentile for being alive, not a complete mess, and doing something productive.
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Oct 11, 2019 19:30
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gourdcaptain posted:By the standards of "former Gundam cast character", even if that was his reason for running Karaba, he's still upper percentile for being alive, not a complete mess, and doing something productive. I mean it wound up getting him killed.
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Oct 11, 2019 19:42
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Onmi posted:I mean it wound up getting him killed. (Looks that up.) Okay, I hadn't gotten that far in my ongoing watch of ZZ yet.
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Oct 11, 2019 19:52
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gourdcaptain posted:(Looks that up.) Oh poo poo, I am sorry!
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Oct 11, 2019 20:05
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Onmi posted:Oh poo poo, I am sorry! I'm not the kind of person to be really bothered by spoilers, it's fine. 
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Oct 11, 2019 20:21
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I wonder who would be the last surviving member of the White Base crew. Like if they did an Honor Flight in UC 0150, is 90 year old Bright gonna be there?
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Oct 11, 2019 23:44
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HitTheTargets posted:I wonder who would be the last surviving member of the White Base crew. Like if they did an Honor Flight in UC 0150, is 90 year old Bright gonna be there? I remember the old F90 manga had Job John show up as a captain Also my bet is probably Sayla
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Oct 11, 2019 23:55
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HitTheTargets posted:I wonder who would be the last surviving member of the White Base crew. Like if they did an Honor Flight in UC 0150, is 90 year old Bright gonna be there? Statistically, it's probably going to be Kikka. She was the youngest of the three orphans, and she doesn't seem to share Katz's tendency to do incredibly dangerous things, so she's probably making it. As mentioned, the longest confirmed survival is Job John, who was still in active service with the Federation in UC 120. With SNRI, though, which means his position gets riskier in the Victory era if he doesn't get a new job. The wildcard is, of course, Bright, as it's unknown if anything can kill him. Zeta, ZZ, and Char's Counterattack certainly couldn't manage the feat, despite their best efforts. Honestly, if there's a blink and you miss it cameo from Bright in Ideon, I'd assume he was the only survivor somehow.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:02
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Except ideon is a prequel, not a sequel
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Oct 12, 2019 00:40
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chiasaur11 posted:Statistically, it's probably going to be Kikka. She was the youngest of the three orphans, and she doesn't seem to share Katz's tendency to do incredibly dangerous things, so she's probably making it. Letz is probably also going to grow up tough as leather. Kid hijacked a truck and ran a surprisingly competent bomb-disposal operation at six years old. God alone knows what he became capable of once he hit puberty.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:12
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chiasaur11 posted:The wildcard is, of course, Bright, as it's unknown if anything can kill him. Zeta, ZZ, and Char's Counterattack certainly couldn't manage the feat, despite their best efforts. Honestly, if there's a blink and you miss it cameo from Bright in Ideon, I'd assume he was the only survivor somehow. So long as there are heavily-traumatized psychic children and giant robots with V-fins for them to hijack and operate, Bright will live on. He simply cannot die as long as that condition is met, regardless of any factors. Poor man will see everyone he loves perish before him, be it by war or by age, and yet he will live on, because another Newtype teenager has gotten into a Gundam.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:59
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Blaze Dragon posted:So long as there are heavily-traumatized psychic children and giant robots with V-fins for them to hijack and operate, Bright will live on. He simply cannot die as long as that condition is met, regardless of any factors. A cut scene in Turn A Gundam had Bright on a steamboat as the Moonlight Butterfly ravages the land. As the scene closes he shakes his head slightly in acknowledgement and takes another bite of his burger.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:08
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chiasaur11 posted:A cut scene in Turn A Gundam had Bright on a steamboat as the Moonlight Butterfly ravages the land. This is canon and you can't convince me otherwise
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Oct 12, 2019 03:14
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Does he at least get to join the others in Gunpla Builders Valhalla?
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Oct 12, 2019 03:30
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HitTheTargets posted:Does he at least get to join the others in Gunpla Builders Valhalla? He couldn't ride the bifrost.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:39
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i wanted rerise to be good but man, those are some low production values for a boring-rear end series with like half a character to its name
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Oct 12, 2019 04:05
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All Gundam shows should have a Bright cameo imo, UC or AU be dammned.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:26
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I think Re Rise still has potential. The characters are eventually going to get to know each other and work as a team, that's been set up. Hopefully they'll be more interesting when they aren't all strangers. And I'm interested in what's gonna happen in the third episode. It looks like they're going to decide to fight not just to clear the mission but to protect the town. Which has me wondering if this show is going to try to create some kind of weird morality around the value of the lives of NPCs, or if the Build Divers are just going to get into RPing.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:31
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Blaze Dragon posted:So long as there are heavily-traumatized psychic children and giant robots with V-fins for them to hijack and operate, Bright will live on. He simply cannot die as long as that condition is met, regardless of any factors. Now I'm imagining a SRW scenario where after busting into DOME from Gundam X, Bright's consciousness inside it explains the Bright History to Loran and friends. chiasaur11 posted:A cut scene in Turn A Gundam had Bright on a steamboat as the Moonlight Butterfly ravages the land. Speaking of burgers, I'm disappointed as hell in Re Rise for going with this instead: 
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Oct 12, 2019 04:46
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amigolupus posted:Now I'm imagining a SRW scenario where after busting into DOME from Gundam X, Bright's consciousness inside it explains the Bright History to Loran and friends. On the other hand it let them do a salt joke so it's not all bad
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Oct 12, 2019 05:30
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Kai probably does win the ticket for "overall best prospects following the One Year War" of the surviving White Base crew. He's got a fairly good job doing what he's got a passion for. Bright is a close second, and his contractual immunity to death helps balance out the part where he always finds himself right smack in the middle of every possible Gundam shenanigan in the Universal Century.McTimmy posted:He couldn't ride the bifrost. This was funnier than I care to admit. It would have been cool to see him along side Mr. Ral in Build Fighters though.
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Oct 12, 2019 05:38
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Warmachine posted:Bright is a close second, and his contractual immunity to death helps balance out the part where he always finds himself right smack in the middle of every possible Gundam shenanigan in the Universal Century. Bright's life is being perpetually humiliated by children as what remains of his dignity flees the universe and his superiors punch him or worse in at least two different seasons.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:28
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Bright having to explain why he gave the Nahel Argama to Beecha would have been nice to see.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:35
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If ReRise gives Bright Fries will they get their burgers from Bernie?
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Oct 12, 2019 06:55
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Gripweed posted:I think Re Rise still has potential. The characters are eventually going to get to know each other and work as a team, that's been set up. Hopefully they'll be more interesting when they aren't all strangers. I still say it's a stealth Isekai reveal on Furry World. Especially as the cast call Furry World a "Dimension". It's clearly game parlance like "server" or "shard" for an instance, but it's just a little too specific considering it wasn't used in the first series.
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Oct 12, 2019 08:02
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