|
Motronic posted:Based on the response to this I have to say I'm really surprised that I haven't. I thought I'd seen all of the common ways one ends up in someones home or business as a fire investigator, but I guess I missed this one. Like I said, I can't remember the last time I've even seen a speed controller for a fan. It's just not something that people do around here for whatever reason. I've got a speed controller (at least I hope that's what it is) on the fan above the entryway in my house. From the look of it, it's original to the house, which was built in 1978. The fan in the bedroom though is bog-standard pull cord.
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
PremiumSupport posted:I've got a speed controller (at least I hope that's what it is) on the fan above the entryway in my house. From the look of it, it's original to the house, which was built in 1978. Easy to find out, just remove the faceplate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2019 23:12
|
|
|
  Can anybody help in identify the incoming bottle cable? It's run underground through a conduit from the house to the detached garage. House is originally 1950s, but not sure if the garage was original or not. I think it's BX cable with two hots and one neutral and no grounding? Is that correct? The only things in the garage are a standard outlet, light bulb, and switch, so not sure why I'd need two hots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2019 23:28
|
|
|
Turn off that power, clean out all that crap, take another picture and post it. BX wasn't run through conduit. The spiral jacket itself always counted as protection for the wires inside. That being said, BX was never rated for direct burial. Take a better picture of the cable emerging from the floor as well. Clean that poo poo up and post some better pictures. Also, don't count on cable being run inside conduit the entire distance. Cable is required to be protected on the outsides of buildings until it's down to depth. Once deep enough, the rules allow for direct, exposed burial. Even if conduit has been laid the entire distance, after a few decades, expect it to be full of dirt and tree roots. That being said, the wire nuts look like mid 50s/early 60s. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Oct 9, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2019 02:15
|
|
|
Heffer posted:The only things in the garage are a standard outlet, light bulb, and switch, so not sure why I'd need two hots. Maybe the original intention was to have a subpanel in the garage and they
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2019 14:35
|
|
|
My bathroom has recessed lighting but no vent fan; I want to replace one of the recessed lights with a combo fan/light. I looked up the wiring on the fan model I was considering buying; it has separate connections for the fan and the light so they can be controlled independently. Would there be any issues if I pigtail the wiring that's currently powering the existing light and have both the light and the fan on the same switch?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 13:25
|
|
|
Toebone posted:My bathroom has recessed lighting but no vent fan; I want to replace one of the recessed lights with a combo fan/light. I looked up the wiring on the fan model I was considering buying; it has separate connections for the fan and the light so they can be controlled independently. Would there be any issues if I pigtail the wiring that's currently powering the existing light and have both the light and the fan on the same switch?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 14:16
|
|
|
Toebone posted:My bathroom has recessed lighting but no vent fan; I want to replace one of the recessed lights with a combo fan/light. I looked up the wiring on the fan model I was considering buying; it has separate connections for the fan and the light so they can be controlled independently. Would there be any issues if I pigtail the wiring that's currently powering the existing light and have both the light and the fan on the same switch? Buy a Panasonic whisper quiet one. I bet it comes with instructions on how to make it 1 switch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 16:10
|
|
|
HVAC guys screwed me. I put in a sub panel (twice now, actually) for an addition. I pulled 2-2-2-4 to the main panel. I currently have in the sub panel: AFCI: Bathroom Circuit Lighting Circuit Bedroom circuit Family room circuit Smoke detectors Outdoor outlets/lights AFCI/GFCI: Laundry room circuit Electric dryer (2-pole) A/C (2-pole) I have one space available. HVAC guys told me they needed a two-pole 20. Splitless duct I guess or whatever. It's not. That was for the condenser. Then they ran 12-2 Rome to the panel for the air-handler and double tapped the A/C 2-pole. What the hell do I do now? Because I'm gonna get dinged on inspection for sure. edit: a bit more info Place is drywalled, painted, etc. I really don't want to tear open the wall to put in a larger panel. Homeowners want to move in Friday. Are there tandem Arc Faults? I think the panel can support the additions (I'm not there). I realize I went over-board on circuits. Was trying to be nice and efficient. Ferrule fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 20:15
|
|
|
Ferrule posted:HVAC guys told me they needed a two-pole 20. Splitless duct I guess or whatever. What did you have installed? A ducted minisplit? A normal ac unit? Make/model?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
Replace the panel with a larger one? Or replace the 20 amp condenser breaker with a 40 amp one feeding a new subpanel with separate condenser and handler breakers?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
H110Hawk posted:What did you have installed? A ducted minisplit? A normal ac unit? Make/model? I just had a 2-pole for the outside unit (#10's to the disconnect). What they told me they needed. I assumed it was a mini split or something similar. No one ever mentioned a separate need for an air handler. Nevets posted:Replace the panel with a larger one? Or replace the 20 amp condenser breaker with a 40 amp one feeding a new subpanel with separate condenser and handler breakers? I'm not sure how id do the latter. I could tear out drywall and do the former. Don't want to. GC certainly doesn't want to...
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 20:48
|
|
|
It's over $100 but Eaton does make an AFCI tandem now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
I was wondering if there were AF tandems now, I've never seen one. You could get a 240V tandem for $35. Tandems in new installations might be a problem (can't remember if it's NEC or state code for me), but I'd just explain the situation to the inspector.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 21:08
|
|
|
Ferrule posted:I just had a 2-pole for the outside unit (#10's to the disconnect). What they told me they needed. I assumed it was a mini split or something similar. No one ever mentioned a separate need for an air handler.  https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-BR-20-Amp-4-Pole-Quad-Circuit-Breaker/3009418Also this may seem dumb but how do you not know what you are buying? Isn't it on an order form you signed somewhere? If your GC/Sub gives you guff about fixing this correctly call the city and ask to speak to the building department, or walk in with a picture. "Hey, my licensed contractor with permit 12345 is telling me this is correct, it doesn't seem right to me but what do I know. Does this look correct to you?" If it's wrong you will start having very thorough inspections. This is the nuclear option.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 21:51
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:In 99.9% of cases, no. There could always be some weird catch with whatever model you're using, but what you're suggesting is pretty routinely done. All I can think of would be some weird situations where you want to run the fan on a timer without the light on.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 21:53
|
|
|
kid sinister posted:All I can think of would be some weird situations where you want to run the fan on a timer without the light on. How's that weird? I have all of my bathroom fans on timers - why would I want the light on also when I'm done but need the fan still on to clear out humidity or stank?
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 22:46
|
|
|
H110Hawk posted:
Hang on. It aint my house. I'm an electrician. I'm a sub for this addition job. Originally, they were going to use/tap into the existing HVAC for the addition. (thew addition is only, like, 500 sqf - just a bath, a bedroom, a family room, and a very small laundry area, plus a deck above). I put in my panel per the above. Then they changed things and decided to put in HVAC for the addition, so separate from the rest of the house. So I pulled the sub panel I put in and pulled out my feed from the panel and replaced all that based on what I was told by the GC and the HVAC guys - including while I was onsite with them, them installing their thing, me all mine. I talked to the GC about an hour ago. Gonna try a tandem arc fault and cross our fingers the inspector doesn't get mad. edit - no wait: that link might do the trick! thanks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
Ferrule posted:Hang on. It aint my house. Ohhhhh I thought you were the home owner. If it's a minisplit the power for the air handler is run via the lineset and draws off the outside unit. They use like 0.4A for a 12k unit. That's why I'm hammering on that point. Edit: Submittal for the inside part, I'm not kidding about how little power they need: https://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/resources/pdf/support/downloads/submittal-sheets/ASU12RLF1.pdf H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Oct 16, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 23:03
|
|
|
Motronic posted:How's that weird? I have all of my bathroom fans on timers - why would I want the light on also when I'm done but need the fan still on to clear out humidity or stank? Seriously, who wouldn't want the fan to be on a separate switch? Door shut with no light glowing under but the sound of a fan running is the universal sign for "opening this door may unleash foul things".
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 23:09
|
|
|
H110Hawk posted:Ohhhhh I thought you were the home owner. If it's a minisplit the power for the air handler is run via the lineset and draws off the outside unit. They use like 0.4A for a 12k unit. That's why I'm hammering on that point. It's cool. And maybe I wasn't clear - when the HVAC dudes told me they "only need 220, 20 amp" I assumed it was going to be a mini split. I have one in my place. I love those things. They showed me loose specs, "yup, I'll pick up a 2-pole 20 and run some #10's outside to the disconnect". "Yeah that's perfect." And these dudes - "we need the electrician to run a whip from the disconnect to the unit". Never has been that on me, but okay. Here's your whip, a foot of #10 out the end for termination (because I'm not opening the unit). "The electrician needs to come back there's not enough wire in the whip". How was I supposed to know the seal tight connects at the bottom of the unit but the terminals at the top? (like, they needed 3 feet of wire or whatever). And they don't have #10 on their trucks. But they had #12 and they ran that for the airhanlder they never told me about and double tapped the A/C breaker. ----------------------------- So, after all that. Folks, whats the best option? I would prefer to put in a new panel but that aint happening. So - is it the above quad 20 amp or a tandem arc fault? I don't care about the cost. What's the safer and better option to not get dinged on? If I tandem the arc faults it'd be the bedroom outlets and family room outlets (which yes could be on one circuit, I know, I know).
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
Noob question, is there a free way for me to find out if the new outlet my contractor installed is grounded? I don't have a circuit tester, but how do those work when they test for ground? Could I replicate whatever it's doing internally with my multimeter instead?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 00:23
|
|
|
Dumb Lowtax posted:Noob question, is there a free way for me to find out if the new outlet my contractor installed is grounded? I don't have a circuit tester, but how do those work when they test for ground? Could I replicate whatever it's doing internally with my multimeter instead? You can check for continuity between neutral and ground. But if your contractor was a dick they could have just jumpered it at the outlet to make it appear grounded. You could easily pull the outlet and confirm that though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
Why would this outlet be wired this way? I'm changing the outlets and switches in our house because the old stuff looks old and I don't trust anything the PO did...none of the switches have been grounded but my understanding is that that was OK at the time, wires were just twisted together without wire nuts (even hot), backstabs instead of screw terminals, and everything is just done halfway. That's two backstabbed blacks, a screwed-down black, and a screwed-down black on one side, two backstabbed whites on the other side, and a ground that's crimped with the other grounds inside the box. As best as I can tell, no portion of the outlet is switched or leads to a switched outlet. I've got a good general sense of what's downstream from this outlet, but it's 1000% possible that I'm missing something. Is this a common wiring scheme for something, or is the guy who hooked this up just an idiot? My current plan is to hook the replacement outlet up normally - neutrals on one side, hots on the other - and see if anything breaks. Is this a terrible idea?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
Ferrule posted:
I prefer the one H110hawk posted. Because it's a lot cheaper and will accomplish the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 01:30
|
|
|
The Human Cow posted:Is this a terrible idea? If by neutrals and hots you mean by color, yes it's a bad idea. You should pull that outlet out more and take a look at where the romex actually enters the box to figure out which wire pairs (excluding grounds) are grouped. I'd probably get a multimeter and carefully, with the power on and everything disconnected, figure out which incoming circuit supplies the power. You can also use that time to determine what's downstream, now that it no longer is connected. If you're sure a particular circuit isn't providing power (probably downstream outlets), connect the wires together and use the continuity feature at the outlet (that you've already confirmed has no power) to see if your guess of it being the downstream one is correct. Basically, you need to do some methodical troubleshooting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 01:30
|
|
|
Motronic posted:How's that weird? I have all of my bathroom fans on timers - why would I want the light on also when I'm done but need the fan still on to clear out humidity or stank? Weird without running more wires.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 02:10
|
|
|
B-Nasty posted:If by neutrals and hots you mean by color, yes it's a bad idea. You should pull that outlet out more and take a look at where the romex actually enters the box to figure out which wire pairs (excluding grounds) are grouped. I'd probably get a multimeter and carefully, with the power on and everything disconnected, figure out which incoming circuit supplies the power. You can also use that time to determine what's downstream, now that it no longer is connected. If you're sure a particular circuit isn't providing power (probably downstream outlets), connect the wires together and use the continuity feature at the outlet (that you've already confirmed has no power) to see if your guess of it being the downstream one is correct. Here's what I've got:  The four white/black wires on the bottom disappear into the bottom of the box without it being clear which is paired with which. I think that I've paired them correctly based on the lengths available inside of the box, but I'm not 100% sure. I can see under the box a little bit, and there's nothing holding the wires together down there either. The only wire that appears to carry any voltage is the black one that's in the left pair at the bottom of the box - it's the one with the straight copper showing in the bottom middle of the photo. If my pairings are correct, it pairs with the white wire that was connected to the rest of the hots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 04:07
|
|
|
You can also nut the ends of those wires all individually (not together!!!) and turn the power back on to see what's lost power. Make a note of it, then stick together and nut one of the sets of wires to the live wires (black to black, white to white), flip the power back on and see what regained power. At that point you should know what all the sets of wires go to. My guess is one set of wires goes to another outlet (or chain) and the other set goes to a light.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
I did some more testing. Behold: So, my initial guess about which wires paired up was wrong. The top pair goes downstream to some light switches that control some lights. The power is coming from the laundry room, which is all of the way across the house. I still don't know where the other two wires lead, and it seems like it could be anywhere based on how far away the laundry room is. My new plan is to leave those unconnected to see what breaks. I guess I'm still confused about why the neutral and the hot for that line would have been hooked to the hot side of the old outlet - is that a valid way of wiring anything?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Was there anything in the house already not working? You can't power anything with 2 positive wires. If they go to something that works then that means the neutral for that mystery device is wired into another outlet. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
Am I missing something? There are three pairs of neutral/hot. One goes to a light, one is the supply, and the third probably feeds the next outlet
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 16:31
|
|
|
I don't know where the third pair leads, and I'd never seen a pair of wires both wired to hot so I was trying to figure out if there was a legitimate case where I'd need to reconnect them that way, or if the guy who hooked it up was an idiot and didn't know what he was doing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 17:34
|
|
|
Ah, i missed that they were both connected to hot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 18:26
|
|
|
Are the outlet's tabs broken off? Maybe the mystery wires head to a switch so that it controls one of the receptacles by itself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
Hello all! I have a "workshop" or shed/garage type building at my house, and it has it's own breaker box inside. I mention this because my house was built in 1960 and is still on the original fuse box with glass fuses but everything works fine there. Recently all the outlets in the worskshop (there are at least 10) stopped working. It appears the overhead lighting works but it doesn't really work as it's an old fluorescent fixture and the bulbs are burned out but I see them flicker when I flip the switch. None of the breakers in the box were tripped, and flipping them on and off has not fixed the power issue. Someone I asked mentioned maybe a GFCI outlet was tripped but I do not see one from my investigating it seems none of the outlets are GFCI. Now one outlet is scorched from something sparking in it but it still worked and that incident happened well over 5 years ago. Electric enters the workshop from underground (I assume from the house) and goes in a plastic box on the outside of the workshop through the wall into another up into the breaker box. There are only three sets of breakers. Again none were tripped, and flipping them on and off does nothing. Is there anything else I can do or check or try for someone who knows very little about electrical at all? I do have a multi meter (cheap free ones from harbor freight).
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
everdave posted:Hello all! I'd say the next step is pulling the cover off of your breaker box and checking the voltage coming in. This isn't something you should be doing on your own without experience and someone to show you how to do it safely the first time around. Got and friends who are electricians or contractors who have worked in a (potentially) hot panel before?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2019 18:27
|
|
|
Did you check the fuses? The shop panel would probably be a sub panel off of your main fuse panel. A blown fuse could take out the whole thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2019 18:30
|
|
|
I'm not too familiar with old fashioned fuses, but if you garage has the regular split phase power supplying it then there are 2 live wires coming into the breaker box. If the outlets are all on the same one, and that supply wire's fuse blew in the main house while the other supply wire's fuse didn't it would explain how your lights are still 'working'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2019 18:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
Motronic posted:I'd say the next step is pulling the cover off of your breaker box and checking the voltage coming in. This isn't something you should be doing on your own without experience and someone to show you how to do it safely the first time around. The most electrical thing I have done is use a meter to diagnose a water heater and replace the thermostat on it, so I do not have the experience to be in the box myself. I don't have any friends I know who would come by and take a look for me but I do have a friend who knows people through his work, I will have to ask him but it will probably end up me having to pay an electrician. If it adds anything the 20A breaker seems "loose" but it seems turning that one off makes the power to the ceiling lighting (which I can barely tell works anyways) turn off completely. The other 2 are 50 or 60a. Thanks for the input!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2019 18:33
|
|