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Darth Walrus posted:Also, calling McGillis's endeavours 'reform' seems like softballing it a bit. The only real ideology he expresses is that the solar system should be governed according to personal martial strength. The Baal is important to him because it is the symbol of the greatest warrior in history, and he claimed it through force of arms. Remember that conversation he has with Mika where he basically goes 'hey, you're incredibly good at killing people, why don't you try your hand at politics?' He doesn't just oppose McGillis though, he opposes reform, has directly profited off the system without reform, and is an entirely selfish person who any time he's not gone with the system, is purely for personal profit. He's as bad as Gihren. He's as bad as Jamitov, he's an out and out villain, who until the ending shows no reason to believe he's for Reform. Gripweed posted:There had just been a minor civil war where a decent chunk of the Seven Stars families had broken away from Gjallarhorn because of a chain of events that can be traced directly back to Gjallarhorn's child brothels. On top of that there were pirate and mob MS armies building up their strength using the AV technology, labor unrest, and a growing nonviolent political opposition. You don't have to be the sharpest knife in the spoon to see trouble ahead. None of you are explaining why the reforms made at the end, were done in such a way to be overall solving all the problems. All you're doing is really explaining why they shouldn't. Again I ask, what is the reason the reforms are all happy good, and not "gently caress you, it doesn't matter, it might on the surface placate the issue, but life remains terrible because the powerful have power." There is no good reason, because Rustal is a monster. He's a monster who's known to be a criminal at the end, who no one opposes and who makes life amazing. Again, the Titans, it'd be like "Hey, didn't you get exposed for gassing colonies? Isn't it known you used nuclear weapons, and murdered people? Like aren't you known both war and normal criminals?" "Yup" "And we're just supposed to forget that and not oppose you at all because you defeated the AEUG." "Yup" Neddy Seagoon posted:He did so to discredit and eliminate a PMC and mafia faction. That's a whole different thing than making a martyr among the average citizen. How is framing the person claiming to represent liberation as a terrorist mass murderer making a martyr of them? That sounds really stupid, then again the people of IBO are loving morons apparently so they are unpredictable. Cao Ni Ma posted:Rustal is a centrist liberal that will do everything to maintain the status quo and any concessions he appears to be making are just there to further propagate. And there is nothing noble about letting minorities/women/lowborn whatever progress inside an institution thats meant to put a boot on the rest of the populaces faces. That is clearly not what the show is going for as directly pointed out by the people arguing HERE that "Oh the show's point is that change can only happen through institutional change, and the protagonists were dumb and Rustal brought those changes about thanks to Kudelia." And that the only people shown to be upset with the change are Ex-Tekkaden who are all off-the end crazies. EDIT: Ugh this is a terrible top of the page. Hey you know what's sexy? The Destiny Impulse, isn't this suit just the most beautiful thing and it's god damned crime that the Destiny exists instead of this. 
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Nov 3, 2019 13:33
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The actual reforms mentioned at the end were banning slavery and some kind of independent Martian government, Banning slavery actually helps Gjallarhorn because it prevents another Tekkadan and hurts the pirate groups. And allowing the Martians a government just brings them to parity with the earth blocs. Which was already happening, the events of Season 1 forced that. Remember the whole thing about Mars getting a trade deal with Canada? So Gjallarhorn is still in control, just like they are on Earth. You are right that the reforms don't fix all the problems. But they're still good reforms. Ending slavery isn't the complete destruction of class and establishment of a communist paradise. But it's still ending slavery. The characters are happy at least for the moment that the world has become significantly better, and I think that's reasonable
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Nov 3, 2019 13:45
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The Seven Stars are also abolished as a system, but at that point large portions of the Seven Stars were dead anyway. And Rustal instantly gets voted in to become head of the new government so it's no skin off his back.
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Nov 3, 2019 13:53
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Where does Rustal 'oppose reform' other than in relation to McGillis's rebellion, though? Yes, he get Nobliss to cut off Kudelia at the end, but only to prevent her from helping the survivors of a quasi-fascist rebellion. Once that's done, he's happy to restore her as a major Martian power-player.
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Nov 3, 2019 14:00
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Pureauthor posted:The Seven Stars are also abolished as a system, but at that point large portions of the Seven Stars were dead anyway. And Rustal instantly gets voted in to become head of the new government so it's no skin off his back. Oh yeah, Rustal started as the head of one of the Seven Stars and ended up as the head of all of Gjallarhorn. His reforms weren't just out of the goodness of his heart, they established him at the top of a much more stable system.
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Nov 3, 2019 14:01
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Gripweed posted:The actual reforms mentioned at the end were banning slavery and some kind of independent Martian government, Banning slavery actually helps Gjallarhorn because it prevents another Tekkadan and hurts the pirate groups. And allowing the Martians a government just brings them to parity with the earth blocs. Which was already happening, the events of Season 1 forced that. Remember the whole thing about Mars getting a trade deal with Canada? So Gjallarhorn is still in control, just like they are on Earth. None of the characters in the show were trying to establish communism, so going "It isn't the establishment of a communist paradise or destruction of class" is loving pointless. Here's the problem we're sitting at. 1. All of the things protagonists wanted with reforms, happened, this happened independent of anything they actually did and done by a person who has opposed these very reforms. Which makes the message of the show that you can't reform the system with a gun, you need to reform it with legislation and change, thus proving Kudelia right. This is bullshit because: There's no reason for Rustal's reforms to line up with everything the protagonists wanted. There's no reason for him to listen to Kudelia or capitulate to her requests. The man who has already proven the shadiest most underhanded poo poo, and do it in such a way he'll get praised for it, isn't going to do this. Also, it's still known that Rustal is a criminal, who not only benefit from the corrupt Gjallarhorn but is actively a criminal the public should recognize as such. Instead he's hailed as a hero with no apparent struggle. 2. Rustal did the bare minimum of 'reform' that didn't actually change anything, and won't. In turn, Kudelia is a fool, reforms cannot come from within the system, because they will never actually reform anything. This leaves the message of the show as "gently caress it, there's nothing you can do to an overly powerful government body. You can't beat them and any concession's made are ultimately meaningless. This is bullshit because: The show doesn't treat this as the message, it doesn't make it seem like the new Gjallarhorn is miserable or oppressive, the only people who are in rebellion are the former Tekkaden members whom are more mad they got murdered than anything, and aren't out to change the system. While I actually prefer this interpretation because I believe this show should just end completely miserably. The reason this message doesn't reasonate is the same reason SEED/SEED Destiny's "War sucks" message doesn't reasonate, in that what we are shown is the complete opposite. For example, I recently have been taking my non-mecha friends through the MSG trilogy, and their main is that 0079 doesn't show war to be cool. It shows it to be miserable. That is a show with a theme that it carries through via what's presented. SEED and Destiny fail because they don't show war to be a miserable slog that's loving with the minds of the people involved and that there's no real happy ending and in the end finding a small group of people you love in this vast ocean of despair is all you can really hope for. They show you everyone being super successful and killing all the bad guys (without actually killing so they can also claim pacifism), flawless victory. If 2. Is the intent, it's a failure on the part of the direction to not convey that.
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Nov 3, 2019 14:03
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Onmi posted:1. All of the things protagonists wanted with reforms, happened, this happened independent of anything they actually did and done by a person who has opposed these very reforms. Which makes the message of the show that you can't reform the system with a gun, you need to reform it with legislation and change, thus proving Kudelia right. Tekkadan didn't want reforms. They didn't want to end slavery and they didn't want Martian independence. I'm sure if you polled the members of Tekkadan both of those things would get strong support. But Tekkadan as an organization only wanted to advance Tekkadan. As I said, Rustal isn't just capitulating to Kudelia. The reforms he puts in place put Gjallarhorn in a better, more stable situation. Which is set up with Julieta. Rustal breaks with the standards of Gjallarhorn by making someone of low birth his top pilot, and because of that he has the best pilot in the solar system on his team. I keep saying this, Rustal directly benefits from the reforms. And as for Rustal being a criminal, so what? Bill Clinton flew on Epstein's plane 26 times, nobody gives a poo poo. Onmi posted:2. Rustal did the bare minimum of 'reform' that didn't actually change anything, and won't. In turn, Kudelia is a fool, reforms cannot come from within the system, because they will never actually reform anything. This leaves the message of the show as "gently caress it, there's nothing you can do to an overly powerful government body. You can't beat them and any concession's made are ultimately meaningless. This is just wrong. Ending slavery and the economic oppression of Mars are both huge. And the things that have been treated as the major problems from the very beginning of the series.
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Nov 3, 2019 14:15
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Onmi posted:The man who has already proven the shadiest most underhanded poo poo, and do it in such a way he'll get praised for it, isn't going to do this. Also, it's still known that Rustal is a criminal, who not only benefit from the corrupt Gjallarhorn but is actively a criminal the public should recognize as such. Instead he's hailed as a hero with no apparent struggle. So what's your actual problem here: that the bad guy wins at the end by exploiting everything the protagonists did for two seasons to stabilise the status quo, put himself in charge and get great PR from implementing changes for purely selfish reasons, or that the ending isn't bleak enough?
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Nov 3, 2019 14:54
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Lemon-Lime posted:So what's your actual problem here: that the bad guy wins at the end by exploiting everything the protagonists did for two seasons to stabilise the status quo, put himself in charge and get great PR from implementing changes for purely selfish reasons, or that the ending isn't bleak enough? That the ending isn't bleak enough and the way it currently is, is a cop-out and I can repeatedly call it a cop-out. I am of the belief that it is a copout ending because it is shot in such a way to not show the ending as dark. Go watch the final episode, go look at the way it is shot, the way music is used, the way it's wrapped up. It is not wrapped up as "The bad guy won in the end and manipulated the heroes and changed nothing he didn't need to change, and now has complete control of the system." It's wrapped up as "Everything is happy and positive now, everything we wanted happened, except the Tekkaden members out for revenge, and even that's fine." It is a show that should have a bleak ending, going "But actually Happy End" And I think it is poo poo for it. It is a trash ending, because it should be dark. Not because I specifically like dark endings, or dislike happy endings. But because it is an ending that ends with everyone who could oppose the bad guys dead, and everything they did pointless, but the bad guy wanted to do reform anyway so it's all cool. And then you have the people in the thread arguing stuff like this. Neddy Seagoon posted:You're also not supposed to like that Rustal broke peace with Kudelia, because it's still playing to his advantage; Compromising with him meant Kudelia got some reforms but Rustal's fundamentally headed them off for the forseable future. Which I repeat, watch the ending, pay attention to how it is shot, how it is composed. There are ways to convey things when telling a story, and you do not use positive bright imagery and only show negativity for a single directed at something pointless with nothing to do with the overall status quo, ending with smiling, if it's not meant to be a Good End. The show is definitely not trying to say that you're not supposed to like that they brokered peace, in fact it's saying the opposite. It's saying you should be happy with the changes are more are coming in the future. I bring up, for the umpteenth time, which no one addresses because they know it's a lovely ending, and know it's same and can't defend it. If Zeta ended with the Titans revealed to mass murderers who gassed colonies and used nuclear weapons and oppressed the populace and then AEUG and the Titans fought and then the AEUG lost, and then Jamitov, who canonically is a supporter of Zeon Deikun and his goal with the Titans was to get humanity off earth so they could all evolve as per Deikunism, deciding "Well now that I've won there's no need for that oppression stuff, let's give the people of space their independence as well. And let's end that Cyber Newtype stuff, never sat right with me." And the only survivor of all this was Katz, who was a pissy and jaded, but everyone else was happy with the state of affairs and moving on with their life. You would say it's loving bad, you'd say Tomino had lost his mind, you'd call it bullshit. Not because it's a Bad End, but because it's a bad ending.
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Nov 3, 2019 15:16
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Onmi posted:Which I repeat, watch the ending, pay attention to how it is shot, how it is composed. There are ways to convey things when telling a story, and you do not use positive bright imagery and only show negativity for a single directed at something pointless with nothing to do with the overall status quo, ending with smiling, if it's not meant to be a Good End. The show is definitely not trying to say that you're not supposed to like that they brokered peace, in fact it's saying the opposite. It's saying you should be happy with the changes are more are coming in the future. You're not very good with subtext, are you? Everything happening there is on Rustal's terms. Peace has been brokered, but it's done so in a way that benefits him and his own designs. The status quo keeps spinning with a new name at the top of the wheel.
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Nov 3, 2019 15:21
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You're not very good with subtext, are you? Everything happening there is on Rustal's terms. Peace has been brokered, but it's done so in a way that benefits him and his own designs. The status quo keeps spinning with a new name at the top of the wheel. You're not very good at like... shot composition, score, dialogue, tone... anything like that? If the intent was to show that? It failed, and it's a lovely ending because it utterly failed to convey tone meaning through anything more than "well if you just look at it." Yeah, it does look poo poo... so why'd you spend 10 minutes on a "Look everything is great now" sequence? Also, again, if that's the point, then point of the story isn't "Well you can't win change with a gun you can only win it through systemic changes" Which is the most popular argument for IBO's ending.
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Nov 3, 2019 15:25
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Onmi posted:None of the characters in the show were trying to establish communism, so going "It isn't the establishment of a communist paradise or destruction of class" is loving pointless. Here's the problem we're sitting at. None of the protagonists - except Kudelia - want anything besides power, because every single member of Tekkadan up to and including Orga(excluding Biscuit who died and Takaki who bailed out) were too stunted by their upbringing to recognize any possible safety and prosperity beyond "unga bunga, we strongest, we kings of mars". They never had any other political ambitions or goals. They didn't want to overturn the system of oppression or make the solar system a better place, they only cared about Gjallarhorn insofar as Gjallarhorn was an antagonist that had killed some of their family, and were quite happy to work with Gjallarhorn elements in McGillis if they felt it would advance their own goals. The show was literally never about Tekkadan fighting against the corrupt government system to change it. In season 1 they came into conflict with Gjallarhorn because Gjallarhorn was trying to assassinate Kudelia and they stopped fighting the government the moment their mission finished. In season 2 they came into conflict with Gjallarhorn because McGillis rope a doped Orga with a promise of power, and Orga tried to tap out and surrender to Gjallarhorn the moment McGillis failed. At no point was there a strong overriding "gently caress the government, things must change" from Tekkadan, ever. Framing the ending to IBO as "the bad guy kills all the people who fought for governmental change" is weird because Tekkadan aren't really fighting for governmental change at any point. The governmental change that occurs does so incidentally due to their actions acting as a catalyst to incentivize change - specifically so that there will never be another Tekkadan(which Kudelia wants because Tekkadan was an organization of tragic child soldiers and Rustal wants because Tekkadan represented a dangerous and destabilizing element that could threaten the governmental system he serves). You also can't really accuse the ending of being too positive considering that we have an ending cut of some of the child survivors of Tekkadan murdering a man in a bathroom stall for vengeance, showing that the cycle of violence isn't really broken yet at all. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 3, 2019 15:36
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Onmi posted:I bring up, for the umpteenth time, which no one addresses because they know it's a lovely ending, and know it's same and can't defend it. I think no one is addressing it because no one agrees with you that it's a good comparison. Gripweed fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 3, 2019 15:55
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Gripweed posted:I think no is addressing it because no one agrees with you that it's a good comparison. Specifically, it's not a very good comparison because Jamitov was deliberately destabilizing the existing system to try to take everything over for himself, which is kind of the opposite of what Rustal is. Like the whole reason Dakar was a big deal was because it revealed the Titans' true motives to the world. Kanos fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 3, 2019 15:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:[Kudelia] has friends in high and low places, and a decent political base. And even in season 1 they had to try real hard to cover it up with operations like the Dort Colonies false-flag riots rather than making a direct assault on her life. I haven't seen IBO since it aired, so I may be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it stated during those episodes that Gjallarhorn regularly supplied minor rebellions like the one on Dort and then publicly defamed and destroyed them so as to help demoralize opposition and keep themselves in power?
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Nov 3, 2019 16:45
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tsob posted:I haven't seen IBO since it aired, so I may be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it stated during those episodes that Gjallarhorn regularly supplied minor rebellions like the one on Dort and then publicly defamed and destroyed them so as to help demoralize opposition and keep themselves in power? Kinda; They gave them defective Mobile Suits and weapons. So the revolution got to the point of pushing out in force enough to justify Gjallarhorn mud-stomping them, but not actually posing a threat to Gjallarhorn.
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Nov 3, 2019 17:21
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Kinda; They gave them defective Mobile Suits and weapons. So the revolution got to the point of pushing out in force enough to justify Gjallarhorn mud-stomping them, but not actually posing a threat to Gjallarhorn. Wasn't it something that was happening regardless of Kudelia though? And something that had happened before, and was implied would happen again? The people on Dort wanted to make her the symbol of a pre-existing rebellion that Gjallarhorn knew about and already had plans in place to put down, rather than something they had to go out of their way to suppress specifically because of her?
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Nov 3, 2019 17:41
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I think the big mistake in IBO's ending was that it went too happy. Even if everything people are saying is true, it shouldn't have jumped ahead to "things are super great" within... what a year? Two? Show the start of the process and it sits a lot better.
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Nov 3, 2019 17:48
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The IBO ending was probably closer to 4-5 years after the final fight. Mika's kid was able to talk and Ride was basically an adult.
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Nov 3, 2019 18:38
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Apprentice Dick posted:The IBO ending was probably closer to 4-5 years after the final fight. Mika's kid was able to talk and Ride was basically an adult. Yeah, Atra's son is the big giveaway that a pretty significant amount of time has passed. Akatsuki wasn't an infant or even a toddler in the ending.
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Nov 3, 2019 19:07
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Kanos posted:Yeah, Atra's son is the big giveaway that a pretty significant amount of time has passed. Akatsuki wasn't an infant or even a toddler in the ending. Also, Julietta has basically doubled in height.
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Nov 3, 2019 19:08
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It was a happy ending for the survivors because Mars is now independent and the government is taking steps to stamp out the slave trade, two things that created the horrific conditions on Mars in the first place and drove the survivors down the path to self destruction. More importantly though, the survivors now get to have lives outside of child slavery and warfighting. It was a happy ending for Rustal because he gets to stay as king of poo poo mountain without giving up much in the process, and ultimately gaining in the realpolitik analysis. He implements reforms because they make the most sense for him to do in the wake of putting down a rebellion. It takes a lot more effort to rule with an iron fist than it takes to give the discontented what they wanted--especially if it ends up befitting you in the end. Rustal comes out smelling like roses, which serves him just fine. Complaining that the ending was too bright and cheery reeks of the same nonsense I see with extremely online leftists where anything that can marginally improve the lives of the proletariat is ignored if it doesn't lead directly to fully automated luxury gay space communism. Kudelia got economic independence because the violent rebellion made it politically efficient to make concessions--much like how capitalism will create "New Deal" programs when doing so can pacify a discontented proletariat. Is it total and complete destruction of the oppressive system? No, but at least slavery is getting abolished. Will they eventually be dismantled and rolled back? Maybe. It's more likely oppression will take a new form much like slavery did in the United States. This will take place over the course of a lifetime. For now at least, peoples' lives are marginally better in IBO. tl;dr: Rustal makes nice with Mars and implements reforms because he stands to gain more by doing that then pouring resources into iron-fisted repression that increases the likelihood that more rebellious elements pop up in the future. This is good for the protagonists because it means
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Nov 3, 2019 20:39
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Kanos posted:Specifically, it's not a very good comparison because Jamitov was deliberately destabilizing the existing system to try to take everything over for himself, which is kind of the opposite of what Rustal is. Like the whole reason Dakar was a big deal was because it revealed the Titans' true motives to the world. Yeah. We also saw the playbooks for both sides when it comes to putting down protest movements, and they don't have much in common. Rustal's taken notes from the old school strikebreakers. He finds a situation near a flashpoint already, inserts agents, and lets things kick off under controlled conditions. Wipes out the loudest voices of protest, de-legitimizes the rest, and returns things to relative stability with a minimum of changes and a manageable loss of life. And when that fails, you give in to some of the demands and offer reforms. The most important thing is that people fear Gjallarhorn's power while still believing it to be legitimate. (Thus his habit of false flags. If you get shot first, you can get away with a lot more.) Jamitov, by contrast, responds to protests by gassing the whole colony, murdering millions of people. There's a reason that Quattro regularly gives tours of 30 Bunch to lock in new recruits, and it's not just that the Titans are corrupt. People like Emma and Kamille knew that firsthand. It was the lack of limits, and the insane scale of their crimes. If you have to put everything in terms the UC, Rustal's Arianrhod fleet could be compared to Londo Bell as easily as to the Titans. They're the less corrupt counterterrorism wing of a corrupt Earth government, autonomously run by a fatherly authority figure who tries to help his pilots grow into well adjusted adults. They even endorse gradual improvements (Rustal's big Here Is Why I Villain speech is all about how organizations like Gjallarhorn change over time due to the will of all the members, not due to one great man) where their opponents call for immediate, dramatic change regardless of cost. Now, obviously, Rustal's a much worse person than Bright, and Londo Bell doesn't set up wars to advance its agenda, but one of the focuses in season 2 is how much views are shaped by narratives. We see Tekkadan as the big heroes because they're the viewpoint characters, the underdogs trying to make a better place for their family, but they're also mob hitmen working with the show's Char clone to throw the solar system into chaos. We see the Arianrhod fleet as the villains because they oppose our protagonists and because Iok is just the worst, but if the show was from their prospective instead, you'd have a young Gundam pilot fighting for human connection in a world that spurns it, a loyal and straightforward ace pilot willing to do anything to repay the man who lifted her out of poverty, a commanding officer who earns the loyalty of his troops to the point they'd die for him, and ...Iok. (He's basically the early Beecha of the group, alright?) It's a mob story, not a war story, which means that everyone's morally compromised, and treating it as good versus evil misses the point. As Vetinari said, “I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.”
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Nov 4, 2019 00:07
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Happy Birthday Yoshiyuki Tomino, you crazy gently caress.
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Nov 5, 2019 16:07
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I am kind of okay with Rerise so far. It's not award winning by any stretch, and I'm annoyed that it's dragging so much on introducing who the characters are in the real world, and it needs to let Kazami and May be cool, but I think it has done decently by Hiroto at least. He's not cool and aloof as much as just kind of a well meaning but not socially adept guy. That gives me confidence that if/when it does go into the others they'll be alright. I could always be wrong, though.
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Nov 6, 2019 07:14
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chumbler posted:I am kind of okay with Rerise so far. It's not award winning by any stretch, and I'm annoyed that it's dragging so much on introducing who the characters are in the real world, and it needs to let Kazami and May be cool, but I think it has done decently by Hiroto at least. He's not cool and aloof as much as just kind of a well meaning but not socially adept guy. That gives me confidence that if/when it does go into the others they'll be alright. I could always be wrong, though. Yeah, I'm glad Hiroto is just being played as a skilled but quiet and mildly awkward guy, and not some hyper-competent edgelord. That trope has been done to death.
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Nov 6, 2019 20:10
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I've heard before that the RGM-79D, Hygogg, Z'Gok-E and Zaku II FZ were supposed to be redesigns of their 0079 equivalents originally, but Bandai got cold feet at the last minute and decided to make them late-war variants instead. Does anyone have a source to back this up? The Gundam wiki has nothing.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:01
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Lemon-Lime posted:I've heard before that the RGM-79D, Hygogg, Z'Gok-E and Zaku II FZ were supposed to be redesigns of their 0079 equivalents originally, but Bandai got cold feet at the last minute and decided to make them late-war variants instead. I know that MS Era treats those designs like the only ones.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:09
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Lemon-Lime posted:I've heard before that the RGM-79D, Hygogg, Z'Gok-E and Zaku II FZ were supposed to be redesigns of their 0079 equivalents originally, but Bandai got cold feet at the last minute and decided to make them late-war variants instead. Besides what Gripweed mentioned about MS Era, an SD Gundam short from around the same period of time has an extended sequence in a non SD universe that uses Izubuchi designs for everything, including the Hygogg and Z'Gok-E being colored like the regular Gogg and Z'Gok, as well as several new at the time designs like for the Gouf that would be repurposed later on in other series that Izubuchi contributed designs for(the aforementioned Gouf design being almost identical to the Gouf Custom)
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Nov 7, 2019 04:35
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Captain Zeon was defeated by a Bertigo, which could be connected to the Daughtresses they fight in the next episode. So maybe there will be some plot development next episode. ngl I'm getting pretty tired of waiting for good plot or character development in the next episode.
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Nov 7, 2019 13:53
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The Izubuchi designs are so loving good, the Hy Gogg is the best
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Nov 7, 2019 15:50
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Improbable Lobster posted:The Izubuchi designs are so loving good, the Hy Gogg is the best The only one I don't like is the FZ. The F2 is a much better take on an updated vanilla Zaku II design.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:29
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Lemon-Lime posted:The only one I don't like is the FZ. The F2 is a much better take on an updated vanilla Zaku II design. The F2 isn't bad, per se, but I don't think it really adds anything to the original design. It just looks like a Zaku that had its head stepped on.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:14
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Darth Walrus posted:The F2 isn't bad, per se, but I don't think it really adds anything to the original design. It just looks like a Zaku that had its head stepped on. It's just the original Zaku II drawn in a modern style, instead of the 70s squashed garbage original design. That's why it's a good updated Zaku II design. The FZ is too different to be a straight up replacement.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:23
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70s Squashed Garbage Design is not the way I'd describe the Zaku, my beautiful green boi.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:44
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Arcsquad12 posted:70s Squashed Garbage Design is not the way I'd describe the Zaku, my beautiful green boi. It sorta looks like a garbage can, but it's no Kapool.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:47
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's just the original Zaku II drawn in a modern style, instead of the 70s squashed garbage original design. That's why it's a good updated Zaku II design. The FZ is too different to be a straight up replacement. No, the F2 is a squashed garbage can design - just look at those huge, hunched shoulders and that tiny, flattened head. The IIJC from 08th MS Team is a regular Zaku in a more modern art-style.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:53
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I always preferred the original zaku design but I always hated the solid green hand that the original design had. Luckily almost all the model kits or whatever show the zaku dark grey palms and fingers.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:05
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I'm starting to lose hope for Re Rise. At first I thought that it was slowly building up the characters and their relationships. But now we know Par's deal was just that he built a Gunpla that could fly but was too afraid of heights to use it, and now that that's dealt with he's slightly more confident but otherwise his relationship with the group hasn't changed at all. I'm starting to worry that Re Rise isn't taking it's time, it's just boring.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:33
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| # ? May 24, 2024 09:18 |
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Gripweed posted:I'm starting to lose hope for Re Rise. At first I thought that it was slowly building up the characters and their relationships. But now we know Par's deal was just that he built a Gunpla that could fly but was too afraid of heights to use it, and now that that's dealt with he's slightly more confident but otherwise his relationship with the group hasn't changed at all. I mean, we're on episode 6 of a 20-something episode show, and assuming it is meant to be a show about the characters, one of four plotlines has advanced incrementally and naturally?
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Nov 7, 2019 22:28
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