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Victory Position posted:if it takes movement of class to make one a traitor, what does that make Amber? what a strange spot to occupy We've been over this, she's a Koopa.
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Nov 24, 2019 00:01
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the article suffers a little bit from the boundaries of the PMC being vague enough you can slot anyone you don't like into it, and also from the inescapable need of the academic to blame the problems of the world on the kids these days showing insufficient respect to their elders, but good article. pmc found
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Nov 24, 2019 00:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the article suffers a little bit from the boundaries of the PMC being vague enough you can slot anyone you don't like into it, and also from the inescapable need of the academic to blame the problems of the world on the kids these days showing insufficient respect to their elders, but good article. people have been whining amber is about to become a fascist for like 2 years now which never stops being funny because she's been a socialist longer than pretty much everyone leveling that accusation
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Nov 24, 2019 00:37
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uber_stoat posted:https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/11/the-characterless-opportunism-of-the-managerial-class/ owns
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Nov 24, 2019 01:13
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Bamber
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Nov 24, 2019 01:14
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uber_stoat posted:https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/11/the-characterless-opportunism-of-the-managerial-class/ she's good, folks
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Nov 24, 2019 01:51
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Good article. I think PMCs like to be on the winning side of things though too, so who knows. Once Bernie starts winning things maybe more will defect.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:07
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Majorian posted:Good article. I think PMCs like to be on the winning side of things though too, so who knows. Once Bernie starts winning things maybe more will defect. You would think this but poo poo is gonna get wild once Bernie gets the nom and the media class and their owners have to twist themselves into promoting abstinence from voting/voting for Trump/voting for whatever third party spoiler they theoretically run to try to derail Bernie
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Nov 24, 2019 02:20
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Majorian posted:Good article. I think PMCs like to be on the winning side of things though too, so who knows. Once Bernie starts winning things maybe more will defect. I do really think this is gonna happen. They might not want to see societal positions challenged on a broad sense, but a lot of succ dems are gonna realize that if they don''t at least feign being on the Bernie train they're gonna end up the Dem equivalent of never Trump Republicans, doomed to irrelevance and writing op-eds that get endlessly dunked on online. Their individual self preservation will win out over any larger class solidarity.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:25
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I think some PMC liberals might support Bernie to some extent, but (as the essay mentions) that doesn't make them reliable in any way. I feel like anyone who didn't "convert" after 2016 is likely a fair-weather friend at best, barring any significant events in their personal lives that change their perspective (like falling out of the PMC or otherwise have difficult experiences).Crowsbeak posted:Hope they discuss Ambers article in the next Chapo along with all the liberals that she caused to have Twitter meltdowns. Where are these twitter meltdowns? I enjoy seeing this sort of thing. I've come around to liking Amber despite her probably being the least fun to listen to chapo person. Her and Matt feel like they're the most genuine in their politics.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:30
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I've been saying for years that Amber is the best by a country mile. For me its because shes basically just me if I was 15 years older, cuz it wasn't long ago that if you wanted to be a marxist you had to be in academia cuz there was nothing else going on. Now I'm free to explain my position to random people without sounding crazy
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Nov 24, 2019 02:37
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lancemantis posted:pmc found we know our own, and despise them it's one of the parts of the article that rang incredibly true
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Nov 24, 2019 02:47
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Ace of Baes posted:people have been whining amber is about to become a fascist for like 2 years now which never stops being funny because she's been a socialist longer than pretty much everyone leveling that accusation nah, she won't become a fascist. but she is absolutely going to decide some piece of poo poo adjunct is showing her insufficient respect in a faculty meeting and go nuclear. the Circle of Academia is inescapable in this regard.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:50
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:nah, she won't become a fascist. but she is absolutely going to decide some piece of poo poo adjunct is showing her insufficient respect in a faculty meeting and go nuclear. the Circle of Academia is inescapable in this regard. how often do you spend fantasizing and getting enraged about stuff she hasn't done? kinda weird dude
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Nov 24, 2019 02:55
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Ace of Baes posted:how often do you spend fantasizing and getting enraged about stuff she hasn't done? kinda weird dude slow day for twitter drama, huh
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Nov 24, 2019 03:00
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:nah, she won't become a fascist. but she is absolutely going to decide some piece of poo poo adjunct is showing her insufficient respect in a faculty meeting and go nuclear. the Circle of Academia is inescapable in this regard. Sorry dude but Jorden Peterson sucks.
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Nov 24, 2019 03:01
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amber has big white feminism/TERF vibes that could be usefully checked, and her position is always going to be from the disconnected rich kid culture of Neh Yark. She's also really on board with Angela "Nazis are just friends I hadn't met yet" Nagle. And the scourge arid hellscape of terribleness that is red scare.
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Nov 24, 2019 03:03
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Trabisnikof posted:Sorry dude but Jorden Peterson sucks. peterson's funny because he's about as close to an academic's academic as you can get, with politics that are a pure expression of his material circumstances. the things that annoy him in his day-to-day work are students who won't respect him and other professors who won't agree with him, and therefore, he builds a political worldview where once -those- issues are dealt with, everything else will fall into place. amber's certainly smarter than that low bar, but you'll notice her takes get a little more galaxy brain every time discussion strays towards those topics. there is a reason for this.
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Nov 24, 2019 03:18
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Larry Parrish posted:I've been saying for years that Amber is the best by a country mile. For me its because shes basically just me if I was 15 years older, cuz it wasn't long ago that if you wanted to be a marxist you had to be in academia cuz there was nothing else going on. Now I'm free to explain my position to random people without sounding crazy even if you were in academia, you were either a part of the Do Nothing Armchair Club or you were simply despised by everyone. it's one of the reasons I dropped the academia track long ago, since it was either cloistering up in the ivory towers or going for broke for something that folks take for granted today it really was not easy being a communist, let alone a Marxist 15 years ago
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Nov 24, 2019 03:44
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uber_stoat posted:https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/11/the-characterless-opportunism-of-the-managerial-class/ this is great
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Nov 24, 2019 03:48
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T-man posted:amber has big white feminism/TERF vibes that could be usefully checked, and her position is always going to be from the disconnected rich kid culture of Neh Yark. She's also really on board with Angela "Nazis are just friends I hadn't met yet" Nagle. And the scourge arid hellscape of terribleness that is red scare. I don't know if I'd call it a white feminism thing so much as her sorta drifting into an overly contrarian perspective in response to "woke liberal" types, but I can't really think of any concrete downsides to this (in that I don't see that sort of attitude actually translating to any sort of actual right-wing opinions on social issues).
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Nov 24, 2019 03:48
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currently my only thought on amber is "remember how confounded she was by a yoga teacher with a midwest accent? wow, lol"
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Nov 24, 2019 04:01
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guys maybe you missed it but none of you have commented on my great podcast idea
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Nov 24, 2019 04:19
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Doc Hawkins posted:currently my only thought on amber is "remember how confounded she was by a yoga teacher with a midwest accent? wow, lol" Amber becoming a stereotypical womentrepreneur in the It's a Wonderful Life parody was extremely accurate
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Nov 24, 2019 04:22
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gh0stpinballa posted:guys maybe you missed it but none of you have commented on my great podcast idea great podcast theory isn't real
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Nov 24, 2019 04:24
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Ytlaya posted:I don't know if I'd call it a white feminism thing so much as her sorta drifting into an overly contrarian perspective in response to "woke liberal" types, but I can't really think of any concrete downsides to this (in that I don't see that sort of attitude actually translating to any sort of actual right-wing opinions on social issues). the end point of that is red scare
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Nov 24, 2019 04:45
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Again, PMC is a cultural category above all else. Which is why it isn't useful. Funny that the people who seem to understand liberals' obsession with culture is a way to ignore class politics buy into a vaguely leftist version of that exact thing.
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Nov 24, 2019 05:38
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pmc is waaaaayyyyyy too academic of a term just say "bosses" ffs
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Nov 24, 2019 06:34
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Prince Myshkin posted:Again, PMC is a cultural category above all else. Which is why it isn't useful. Funny that the people who seem to understand liberals' obsession with culture is a way to ignore class politics buy into a vaguely leftist version of that exact thing. I think there's some use to the idea of "a class of people who aren't the owners of capital and don't directly exploit labor themselves, but do well enough to have an incentive to protect the status quo." The cultural aspects are likely mostly a result of that, though the end result is that these people have direct control over media/culture in a way that helps maintain control over the rest of labor. I don't know if the term "petit bourgeois" is really an accurate descriptor for the top 10-20% who work in well compensated "knowledge economy" or managerial jobs.
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Nov 24, 2019 06:50
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just to clarify, if you're counting people who calculate their income by how much an hour of their workday pays them, or are using the term "salary" then you're discussing people at the very lowest rungs of that top 20%, at best these "buffer" class traitors are way poorer than you realize. think "general manager at the frozen yogurt place down the street"
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Nov 24, 2019 07:02
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Ytlaya posted:I think there's some use to the idea of "a class of people who aren't the owners of capital and don't directly exploit labor themselves, but do well enough to have an incentive to protect the status quo." The cultural aspects are likely mostly a result of that, though the end result is that these people have direct control over media/culture in a way that helps maintain control over the rest of labor. That's the labor aristocracy. Which is a better term because it includes wealth extracted from exploited nations via imperialism in its formulation.
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Nov 24, 2019 07:07
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Ytlaya posted:I think there's some use to the idea of "a class of people who aren't the owners of capital and don't directly exploit labor themselves, but do well enough to have an incentive to protect the status quo." The cultural aspects are likely mostly a result of that, though the end result is that these people have direct control over media/culture in a way that helps maintain control over the rest of labor. This is correct. Prince Myshkin posted:That's the labor aristocracy. Which is a better term because it includes wealth extracted from exploited nations via imperialism in its formulation. Laughably wrong
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Nov 24, 2019 08:24
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how does one reconcile the idea of people who aren't owners of businesses or even managers, but do earn a high income and get things like employee stock bonuses that technically make them capital owners they aren't the ones who benefit the most from this current system by far, but seizing the means of production would materially make them worse off given that much of their money may also be tied up in investments. I'm talking like the people in the BFC bad with money/business travel thread types
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Nov 24, 2019 08:49
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Slanderer posted:Laughably wrong You're an idiot. Lenin posted:The industrial workers cannot fulfill their world-historical mission of emancipating mankind from the yoke of capital and from wars if these workers concern themselves exclusively with their narrow craft, narrow trade interests, and smugly confine themselves to care and concern for improving their own, sometimes tolerable, petty bourgeois conditions. This is exactly what happens in many advanced countries to the “labor aristocracy” which serves as the base of the alleged Socialist parties of the Second International. quote:It must be observed that in Great Britain the tendency of imperialism to split the workers, to strengthen opportunism among them and to cause temporary decay in the working-class movement, revealed itself much earlier than the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth centuries; for two important distinguishing features of imperialism were already observed in Great Britain in the middle of the nineteenth century—vast colonial possessions and a monopolist position in the world market. On the Agrarian Question Parasitism and Decay of Capitalism Prince Myshkin has issued a correction as of 09:44 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 09:21
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:these "buffer" class traitors are way poorer than you realize. think "general manager at the frozen yogurt place down the street" to most people, one of the greatest tyrannies most folks will face in their life is their manager, so it's no joke if you're held by the throat by say, your operations manager if you're in warehousing or your general manager if you stock shelves The Wal-Mart Fiefdom
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Nov 24, 2019 10:22
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T-man posted:amber has big white feminism/TERF vibes that could be usefully checked, and her position is always going to be from the disconnected rich kid culture of Neh Yark. She's also really on board with Angela "Nazis are just friends I hadn't met yet" Nagle. And the scourge arid hellscape of terribleness that is red scare. people say tyhis a lot but i think that if she was as dumb as nagle and the dashas she would've actually done something bad by now
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Nov 24, 2019 11:12
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T-man posted:amber has big white feminism/TERF vibes that could be usefully checked, and her position is always going to be from the disconnected rich kid culture of Neh Yark. She's also really on board with Angela "Nazis are just friends I hadn't met yet" Nagle. And the scourge arid hellscape of terribleness that is red scare. she's from a working class family in indiana theres a big jump between starting there adn ending up in ny on that podcast money and someone like will
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Nov 24, 2019 11:20
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Shipon posted:how does one reconcile the idea of people who aren't owners of businesses or even managers, but do earn a high income and get things like employee stock bonuses that technically make them capital owners then they benefit from capitalism and are the enemy even if they aren't ruling class. this is like asking if we really needed to kill/imprison the palace guard along with the king
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Nov 24, 2019 12:18
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Gripweed posted:I do really think this is gonna happen. They might not want to see societal positions challenged on a broad sense, but a lot of succ dems are gonna realize that if they don''t at least feign being on the Bernie train they're gonna end up the Dem equivalent of never Trump Republicans, doomed to irrelevance and writing op-eds that get endlessly dunked on online. Their individual self preservation will win out over any larger class solidarity. You say this but going by prior leftwing movements professionals tend to flip right the moment mass politics gets a bit too scary (radical) for them
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Nov 24, 2019 16:12
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Larry Parrish posted:I've been saying for years that Amber is the best by a country mile. For me its because shes basically just me if I was 15 years older, cuz it wasn't long ago that if you wanted to be a marxist you had to be in academia cuz there was nothing else going on. Now I'm free to explain my position to random people without sounding crazy Amber is who I wish I could be. Felix is pretty much what I would be if my twitter took off. Matt is what I fear to become. BENGHAZI 2 posted:she's from a working class family in indiana theres a big jump between starting there adn ending up in ny on that podcast money and someone like will T-man what they can not be. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 16:43 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 16:40
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