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The bit with Alice in this chapter scares me more than any of Edward's direct actions so far because I went in knowing he was terrible but nothing about her. And I thought it was okay to mostly like her Do the rest of the decent Cullens get warped in this book too?
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 12:58 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:18 |
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I like how there's so little plot or tension in these books that I'm not sure if we're in the epilogue of the last book, or the new one has started.
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 14:23 |
MorgaineDax posted:I like how there's so little plot or tension in these books that I'm not sure if we're in the epilogue of the last book, or the new one has started. It's really easy to forget that Bella is supposed to be getting hunted by some supposedly incredibly dangerous vampire that can threaten the Cullens and the Wolf Pack by herself. These books are mostly generic romance drama (with a splash of abuse and severe mental illness that the author seems really wary of acknowledging) that occasionally goes "Oh yeah, there was a bigger plot here that we forgot 6 chapters ago!"
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 15:05 |
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chitoryu12 posted:It's really easy to forget that Bella is supposed to be getting hunted by some supposedly incredibly dangerous vampire that can threaten the Cullens and the Wolf Pack by herself. These books are mostly generic romance drama (with a splash of abuse and severe mental illness that the author seems really wary of acknowledging) that occasionally goes "Oh yeah, there was a bigger plot here that we forgot 6 chapters ago!" Technically none of the wolves or vampires are afraid of Victoria, it's only Bella that is subjectively terrified that Victoria will kill one of her friends even though there's no chance, because she is mentally ill. The supernaturals are just worried that she will get past them to Bella or Charlie.
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 15:22 |
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:The bit with Alice in this chapter scares me more than any of Edward's direct actions so far because I went in knowing he was terrible but nothing about her. And I thought it was okay to mostly like her Yeah. 'So, Alice is supposed to be the manic pix - oh, wait, no, she's a sociopath.'
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 15:28 |
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Victorkm posted:Technically none of the wolves or vampires are afraid of Victoria, it's only Bella that is subjectively terrified that Victoria will kill one of her friends even though there's no chance, because she is mentally ill. The supernaturals are just worried that she will get past them to Bella or Charlie. Yeah, I find it kind of funny how terrified Bella is that Victoria is going to kill one of the wolves or vampires. On the one hand you have the Cullen's, who effortlessly mulched Victoria's partner once they caught him. On the other hand you have the werewolves, magical killing machines who apparently are created with the sole purpose of murdering vampires. Somehow I think there isnt much to worry about from some lone bloodsucker. If nothing else, you'd think Bella would work this out from the way Victoria keeps sprinting away anytime they get anywhere close to her.
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 16:00 |
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Lemony posted:Yeah, I find it kind of funny how terrified Bella is that Victoria is going to kill one of the wolves or vampires. On the one hand you have the Cullen's, who effortlessly mulched Victoria's partner once they caught him. On the other hand you have the werewolves, magical killing machines who apparently are created with the sole purpose of murdering vampires. Somehow I think there isnt much to worry about from some lone bloodsucker. If nothing else, you'd think Bella would work this out from the way Victoria keeps sprinting away anytime they get anywhere close to her. Yeah. A single wolf might be in trouble against a single vampire or more than one, but 2 or more wolves and the vamps are hosed barring special powers. Hell, the only reason Victoria keeps getting away is she supposedly has her own self preservation power according to the fandom? Not sure that Meyer ever made it clear herself.
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 17:02 |
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Meyers is right up there with JK Rowling with overexplaining nonsense outside of the books to answer questions we didn't need answers about. Wizards wear robes so they can easily take dumps in the hallway! Vampires can blink because their venom also lubes up their eyes!
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 17:40 |
Chapter 7: Unhappy Endingquote:Rosalie hesitated in the doorway, her breathtaking face unsure. Dammit we already made the joke about this starting like a porn, don't keep it going! quote:“Of course,” I replied, my voice an octave high with surprise. “Come on in.” This is getting way too much like a fanfic opening for my comfort. quote:“Please don’t think I’m horribly interfering,” Rosalie said, her voice gentle and almost pleading. She folded her hands in her lap and looked down at them as she spoke. “I’m sure I’ve hurt your feelings enough in the past, and I don’t want to do that again.” Christ, it's still going! quote:I nodded slowly, suddenly somber. “He said it was close to what happened to me that time in Port Angeles, only no one was there to save you.” I shuddered at the memory. I think I should point out that it's taken us until almost a quarter of the way through the third book for us to get Rose's story, and we still haven't gotten Jasper's. There's no reason she couldn't have cut some of the chaff from the first book to go into a little more detail there, especially since she had no plans to continue initially. If the original Twilight had been all there was, we would have only gotten full backstory for Emmett and Alice! Even Edward's own detailed backstory and how Carlisle found him didn't get revealed until the sequel. quote:“I lived in a different world than you do, Bella. My human world was a much simpler place. It was nineteen thirty-three. I was eighteen, and I was beautiful. My life was perfect.” This is actually relatively accurate to the reality of the Great Depression. Despite jobs and wages being down, actual starvation wasn't really a thing. Even the poorest people who still had a job consumed more calories on average than is healthy for a modern person (albeit not quite enough for a manual labor job) and there were extensive social programs to keep the totally penniless fed. The only noticeable increase in mortality came via suicide. quote:“It was my mother’s job to keep our house—and myself and my two younger brothers—in spotless order. It was clear that I was both her first priority and her favorite. I didn’t fully understand at the time, but I was always vaguely aware that my parents weren’t satisfied with what they had, even if it was so much more than most. They wanted more. They had social aspirations—social climbers, I suppose you could call them. My beauty was like a gift to them. They saw so much more potential in it than I did. She still sounds like she was more likable than Bella! quote:“My parents’ influence had been such that I also wanted the material things of life. I wanted a big house with elegant furnishings that someone else would clean and a modern kitchen that someone else would cook in. As I said, shallow. Young and very shallow. And I didn’t see any reason why I wouldn’t get these things. They still, you know, lived. Edward didn't spend his entire immortal life sitting in a coffin. Somehow everyone else is able to get along with the changing times but Edward has to keep speaking in his stilted faux-gentleman vocabulary and wax poetic on his condition like he's still a freshly turned vampire. quote:Rosalie sighed, and when she spoke again her voice was different, the wistfulness gone. As usual, the film did this all in a flashback. Royce King II was played by British actor Jack Huston, who played creepy badass killer Richard Harrow in Boardwalk Empire and Judah Ben-Hur in the 2016 box office bomb. quote:“We didn’t spend a great deal of time alone with each other. Royce told me he had many responsibilities at work, and, when we were together, he liked people to look at us, to see me on his arm. I liked that, too. There were lots of parties, dancing, and pretty dresses. When you were a King, every door was open for you, every red carpet rolled out to greet you. Wow, another flashback that sounds way more interesting than what's happening in the plot! Great! quote:“I was at Vera’s that night,” Rosalie whispered. Her face was smooth as marble, and as hard. “Her little Henry really was adorable, all smiles and dimples—he was just sitting up on his own. Vera walked me to the door as I was leaving, her baby in her arms and her husband at her side, his arm around her waist. He kissed her on the cheek when he thought I wasn’t looking. That bothered me. When Royce kissed me, it wasn’t quite the same—not so sweet somehow.… I shoved that thought aside. Royce was my prince. Someday, I would be queen.” Yep, it's also another flashback where Rose recites all of the dialogue as if she's writing a book. Imagine how awkward it would be to hear someone actually recount a story to you like this. quote:“I’d never seen him drink before. A toast, now and then, at a party. He’d told me he didn’t like champagne. I hadn’t realized that he preferred something much stronger. This formatting is really awkward to edit in. quote:“Suddenly, Royce ripped my jacket from my shoulders—it was a gift from him—popping the brass buttons off. They scattered all over the street. Only a week away, too. If he just waited, he'd have legal protection because marital rape was still granted an exception! quote:“I waited in the road to die. It was cold, though there was so much pain that I was surprised it bothered me. It started to snow, and I wondered why I wasn’t dying. I was impatient for death to come, to end the pain. It was taking so long.… If the "brother" cover sounds odd because you're picturing the actors, remember that in the books Esme and Carlisle were in their 20s when they were turned. Their current cover as parents would actually be completely implausible because all of them visibly look the same age! quote:“I thought I’d died when he pulled me from the ground and ran with me—because of the speed—it felt like I was flying. I remembered being horrified that the pain didn’t stop.… In addition to taking years off to become a serial killer, Edward has also just been a plain douche his entire life. quote:“‘I couldn’t just let her die,’ Carlisle said quietly. ‘It was too much—too horrible, too much waste.’ I checked and this is only 2 years after Edward stopped killing people to feed his thirst. quote:“It pleased me that they seemed to know that Royce was guilty. "Edward's one of the greatest mass murderers in American history!" quote:She understood my puzzled expression as I wondered why her record was only almost as clean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AAtXhl075E quote:She broke off suddenly, and she glanced down at me. “I’m sorry,” she said in a chagrined voice. “I’m frightening you, aren’t I?” You're literally talking to his kidnapping victim. quote:“I can tell.” Then she sighed. “I haven’t been fair to you, either, Bella. Did he tell you why? Or was that too confidential?” I promise the Denali clan will become important in the plot. Eventually. After having them referenced a dozen or two times first. quote:“But you said ‘at first.’ That doesn’t still… bother you, does it? I mean, we both know you’re the most beautiful person on the planet.” "He's a murderous psychopath!" quote:“But you still don’t like me,” I whispered. It's easy to sympathize with every other character over Bella, but Rosalie has the best reason of anyone. Of course we need Bella to get everything she wants, so Rosalie will inevitably have no choice but to accept Bella's choice to become a vampire and abandon all of her family and friends for a whiny douchebag who keeps abusing her "out of love". quote:I flinched back from her fierce expression. I realized my mouth had fallen open and I snapped it shut. Rose has probably suffered from her transformation more than anyone. Edward, Emmett, and Alice didn't have much of anything they were looking forward to in life. Esme was suicidal. Carlisle chose to use his powers and immortality for the good of mankind, legitimate good rather than something like trying to rule over everyone. We haven't gotten to Jasper yet but he was also very young and didn't have many connections to his human life to lose. As selfish as Rose was in her youth, she had legitimate dreams for a future and wants to be dead rather than live without them. Bella is basically taking all of her trauma and throwing it back in her face out of immature selfishness. quote:Her smile was kind now. “That sounds quite bizarre to you, doesn’t it? In some ways, you are much more mature than I was at eighteen. But in other ways… there are many things you’ve probably never thought about seriously. You’re too young to know what you’ll want in ten years, fifteen years—and too young to give it all up without thinking it through. You don’t want to be rash about permanent things, Bella.” She patted my head, but the gesture didn’t feel condescending. And even after all of that, Bella still can't help but be a selfish little poo poo in her head. quote:“I apologize for being such a monster.” She grinned. “I’ll try to behave myself from now on.” If I never read another dream sequence from Stephenie Meyer, it will have been too long. quote:The next morning, Alice drove me to school while I stared grumpily out the windshield. I was feeling sleep-deprived, and it made the irritation of my imprisonment that much stronger. Is this what "character assassination" feels like? Where did the Alice we all like go? She's been replaced by this psychopathic, childish automaton. quote:“It’s not your fault,” I muttered. I couldn’t believe I actually felt guilty. “I’ll see you at lunch.” Jacob may also be a little poo poo, but I will give him credit for this. quote:I was frozen for a second before I understood. This feels a lot less innocent than Meyer seems to want it to be and a lot more like a literal rescue from a kidnapper. If you have to wonder if you're going to get physically restrained from leaving in public, you're not among friends! quote:“Hold on,” Jacob shouted. *shudders* quote:“That’s why I didn’t consider it.”
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 18:27 |
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Rosalie is the main character of I Spit On Your Grave. Hmm. Yes, good choice there Steph.
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 19:59 |
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# ? Dec 9, 2019 20:39 |
Chapter 8: Temper Uh oh. quote:We ended up on the beach again, wandering aimlessly. Jacob was still full of himself for engineering my escape. He'd probably pick whoever was the least openly creepy. quote:“So what’s the latest pack scandal?” I asked lightly. WOW CAN YOU SEE THE CONNECTION TO EDWARD AND BELLA'S RELATIONSHIP quote:We walked along the stony beach quietly for a few minutes. Literally trying to beam imprinting thoughts into his crush's head. quote:Jacob started walking again. Without seeming to think about it, he reached out and took my hand. We paced silently across the rocks. I thought of how we must look walking hand and hand down the beach—like a couple, certainly—and wondered if I should object. But this was the way it had always been with Jacob.… No reason to get worked up about it now. This is gonna go to a place. quote:He didn’t continue. I thought about that for a moment. Yep. quote:Rain started to fall. I blinked furiously as the drops pelted my face. ew ew ew ew ew ew ew quote:“I… don’t know what to say.” I'm judging the writer! quote:“Sorry,” I muttered. “But it sounds really creepy.” You're not making it sound any less weird! quote:“Doesn’t Claire get a choice here?” How does this book get worse? Every chapter it just gets worse. quote:We walked in silence for a moment, till I paused to toss a rock toward the ocean. It fell to the beach several meters short. Jacob laughed at me. Don't worry, I'm sure Meyer will find the best and least creepy way to get you taken care of by the end of this series! quote:I dropped my eyes to the rocks. Thank you for telling me he was surprised by this conclusion. I never would have been able to figure anything out from context. quote:I looked up at him again, and his eyes were anxious now. Since she doesn't have a motorcycle license I'm pretty sure Charlie could actually legally bar her from riding it. Edward is just showing sensible precaution. quote:Jacob grinned my grin, and he was suddenly the Jacob I missed the most, sunny and warm. Whereas with Edward it was "I fell down the stairs"? quote:We rode our motorcycles on the back roads around La Push until the rain made them too muddy and Jacob insisted that he was going to pass out if he didn’t eat soon. Billy greeted me easily when we got to the house, as if my sudden reappearance meant nothing more complicated than that I’d wanted to spend the day with my friend. After we ate the sandwiches Jacob made, we went out to the garage and I helped him clean up the bikes. I hadn’t been here in months—since Edward had returned—but there was no sense of import to it. It was just another afternoon in the garage. One where she was manipulating your feelings to drive herself insane on purpose out of grief at being dumped. quote:I couldn’t agree with him. This was my happy era now. But I was surprised to realize how many things I missed from my own personal dark ages. I stared through the opening at the murky forest. The rain had picked up again, but it was warm in the little garage, sitting next to Jacob. He was as good as a furnace. Oh gently caress off. "My dad used to like me!" What, he's supposed to forget all your worst self-destructive impulses? The reign of terror you inflicted on him for the first half of the year? How much you keep reminding him of your ability to hurt him when he tries to act like a parent? quote:“He won’t. He doesn’t get worked up about things the way Charlie does. Hey, I never did apologize officially for that stupid move with the bike. I’m real sorry about ratting you out to Charlie. I wish I hadn’t.” Considering their relative levels of competency under pressure, more like a small rabbit. quote:“Were you just being stubborn because you were mad at me, or were you really serious?” he whispered. Boy, this book is really piling on reasons for Bella to give up her dreams of becoming a vampire, huh? Almost like it's a stupid impulsive teenager decision. quote:He made it sound so inevitable. I shuddered. I feel like this book is putting way too much effort into making Bella's choice sound like a legitimate decision between two equal options, as opposed to "the one that will ruin everyone's lives if it goes wrong" and "the one that doesn't do that." quote:“Is this goodbye then, Jake?” Remember how I kept bringing up how many times the wolves almost transform in a rage? That was Jacob almost actually murdering Bella right in the garage. quote:“Weeks,” Jacob said in a flat monotone. Wow, two chapters in a row where Bella gets told she's better dying than becoming a vampire! I'm sure that will actually matter in the future! quote:I recoiled like he’d slapped me. It hurt worse than if he had. And then, as the pain shot through me, my own temper burst into flame. Chapter break for length and to wash the taste of pedophilia out of my mouth.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 16:30 |
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Has Meyer ever talked about what happens to a gay guy who imprints on a woman or if guys can imprint on guys? Cuz I'd like to see if her thoughts on that would rival Anne McCaffrey's Pern when it comes to homosexuality.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 19:31 |
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MorgaineDax posted:Has Meyer ever talked about what happens to a gay guy who imprints on a woman or if guys can imprint on guys? Cuz I'd like to see if her thoughts on that would rival Anne McCaffrey's Pern when it comes to homosexuality. IIRC, she's said that imprinting is fueled by so you'll never get a same-sex imprint, and if you imprint on the opposite sex, they are the only person you are attracted to from then on, regardless of your past/current relationships, preferences, and orientation.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 19:51 |
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Wow yeah so that just happened in a young adult bestseller.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 20:03 |
Midjack posted:Wow yeah so that just happened in a young adult bestseller. Good summary of the book.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 20:06 |
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chitoryu12 posted:Good summary of the book. I had no exposure to any of this beyond knowing it was popular, involved vampires and werewolves, and seeing some of the Team Edward/Jacob merch in bookstores so this thread has been a real revelation for me. Thanks for doing this!
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 20:09 |
I did say I wanted to make sure I could legitimately criticize the books beyond just seeing a synopsis and some people saying why they're bad. I just didn't expect them to be so goddamn gross.
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# ? Dec 10, 2019 20:33 |
quote:I walked the bike into the Cullens’ cavernous garage and was unsurprised to find Alice waiting for me, perched lightly on the hood of her Porsche. Alice stroked the glossy yellow paint. "Otherwise the master kidnapper will throw a tantrum and break poo poo." quote:“Thanks,” she sighed in relief. No amount of flowery language will make this three-way relationship any less toxic. quote:And I didn’t care that I was supposed to be angry with him. I didn’t care that I was supposed to be angry with everyone. I reached out for him, found his hands in the darkness, and pulled myself closer to him. His arms encircled me, cradling me to his chest. My lips searched, hunting along his throat, to his chin, till I finally found his lips. If all of your romantic moments come off as disturbing, maybe you should reconsider being a writer. quote:My breath was becoming uneven. “Maybe in the morning.” "The coverlet was a dull gold, just lighter than the walls; the frame was black, made of intricately patterned wrought iron. Sculpted metal roses wound in vines up the tall posts and formed a bowery lattice overhead." It's gaudy as all hell is what I object to! quote:Before I could answer, before I could even concentrate enough to make sense of his words, he rolled to the side, pulling me on top of him. He held my face in his hands, angling it up so that his mouth could reach my throat. My breathing was too loud—it was almost embarrassing, but I couldn’t care quite enough to be ashamed. Just shows what experience Edward has if he thinks any of that is difficult on a couch. The guy's canonically been a virgin for 107 years. quote:“Did you change your mind?” I asked breathlessly. Maybe he’d rethought all his careful rules. Maybe there was more significance to this bed than I’d originally guessed. My heart pounded almost painfully as I waited for his answer. Bella's like a lame version of those edgy Hot Topic kids. quote:“I know.” There was a sour edge to his voice, and I realized that he would have seen the motorcycle in the garage. I was really confused because everything past Bella's first line was on a new page and that was the weirdest way to change the subject. quote:“I’m sorry I gave you the wrong impression,” he said. “I didn’t mean to make you unhappy. That wasn’t nice.” Neither was the kidnapping and surveillance, but... quote:“Actually, it was very, very nice.” In case you were curious: yes, vampires can get an erection. Stephenie Meyer had to scramble for justifications for vampire sex and the results are not pretty. quote:“I’m not going to apologize for that.” Hope that works as a legal defense! quote:“Okay,” I said easily. He was already forgiven. “But slumber parties do have their advantages.…” I curled myself closer to him, pressing my lips into the indentation over his collarbone. “You can hold me hostage any time you want.” Then why do you terrorize your family so much that they think you would do that out of spiteful rage? quote:“Don’t you want to know what I did?” I asked, starting to be puzzled by his apparent lack of concern. Yes, it is actually extremely unusual for someone to shift gears from "Commits multiple felonies with the aid of his family to stop his girlfriend from doing things he doesn't like" to "Is fine with everything" over the course of a single day! Of course, Meyer is the queen of character mood swings. quote:He sighed. That's the first thing you think she did? quote:“No.” I took a deep breath, and then mumbled quickly through the explanation. “I thought Jacob would have realized… I didn’t think it would surprise him.” "Only I'm allowed to hurt you and then feel bad about it later!" quote:I sighed and relaxed, fitting myself to the stone shape of him. But he was motionless again, tense. Always make sure to date people who could slip up and murder your friends and family at any time. quote:“If you’re going to have a lapse in control, I can think of a better place for it.” I reached for his face, trying to pull myself up to kiss him. His arms held me tighter, restraining. Bella immediately leaps out the window. quote:“Goodnight, Bella.” Why do you care? Why is the plot getting derailed again for bullshit? quote:Again he said nothing. Spoilers: she is. Tanya appears in Midnight Sun and Edward makes it clear that he doesn't reciprocate her romantic feelings. This is just Bella having a jealousy-induced panic attack that bogs down the plot and makes her less likable for no good reason. quote:“Which one?” I insisted. For eating, or.... quote:I thought about that for a while, trying to concentrate as his lips moved slowly along my cheek, down my throat, and back up again. He made the circuit three times before I spoke.
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# ? Dec 11, 2019 20:08 |
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Is he..... Enchanting her to sleep?
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# ? Dec 11, 2019 21:17 |
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Really enjoyed this thread. It's bewildering to me how someone can create so many interesting and rich characters and apparently not notice that, or something, and shuffle them to the sidelines in favour of the three boring, unpleasant dipshits we're forced to spend time with in these books. Even Jacob was a little ray of sunshine before the werewolf thing happened.
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# ? Dec 11, 2019 22:25 |
Chapter 9: Targetquote:Alice dropped me off in the morning, in keeping with the slumber party charade. It wouldn’t be long until Edward showed up, officially returning from his “hiking” trip. All of the pretenses were starting to wear on me. I wouldn’t miss this part of being human. Nearly transforming into a giant rage wolf and saying "I'd rather you died" isn't exactly something you can take back with a simple apology. quote:My appetite evaporated. I turned an about face and went to put my things away. Every so often you get reminded this is a young adult book and Bella is still a teenager. quote:I knew the laundry was building up, so after I put my toothpaste away and threw my dirty clothes in the hamper, I went to strip Charlie’s bed. I left his sheets in a pile at the top of the stairs and went to get mine. Is she slovenly, though? The first book established that she does all the cooking and cleaning because of her mother's irresponsibility and Charlie's lack of skill at it. She was obviously a mess in New Moon but I thought she'd be back to normal by now. quote:But that red shirt really wasn’t dirty, so I went to save it from the hamper. I had this problem with my khakis too! I'm pretty sure someone thought they were too short and threw them out when I wasn't looking. quote:“Did you find what you were looking for?” Charlie yelled. Again, I wish the movies went whole hog with the vampires using their super speed all the time when nobody but Bella is paying attention. Just zipping around too fast to see everywhere they go, popping up out of corners and appearing next to people instantly when called from their room. quote:Before I could compose myself enough to count to two, he was back. He put his arm around my waist and pulled me swiftly toward the kitchen. His eyes darted around the room, and he held me against his body as if he were shielding me from something. I threw a glance toward Charlie on the couch, but he was studiously ignoring us. The plot is looking for her no matter how hard she runs away from it! quote:He didn’t answer. His body was frozen, a statue. Charlie is just so loving excited about the prospect of his daughter breaking up with this pale weirdo. quote:“Let’s go,” Edward said in a low hard voice. Vampires not only have super speed, they have super fast muttering powers! It's like a quiet version of those guys saying disclaimers really fast in commercials. quote:“Emmett and Jasper are on their way,” he whispered when he felt my resistance. “They’ll sweep the woods. Charlie is fine.” Is there any particular reason Charlie shouldn't be chasing after them right now? From his perspective he just caught his daughter having a whispered argument with her boyfriend, followed by him physically dragging her out the door too fast for words. quote:“Where are we going?” I couldn’t stop whispering, even after we were in the car. It's not really a science at all, actually. It just works with the speed and accuracy the plot demands. quote:“He was in her room, Alice. He could have still been there—waiting for her.” Someone who wants to keep at least one decent person alive on the cast. quote:I shuddered. Contemplating a way of just throwing Bella in a wood chipper. quote:Edward pulled me to the sofa and I sat next to Esme, who shifted to put her arm around me. He held one of my hands tightly in both of his. That line could sum up their relationship pretty well. quote:“It’s going to be fine, Bella,” Esme murmured, smoothing my hair. Don't you love the scenes where Bella can do nothing of importance and it's just all the other characters talking around her while she whimpers and contorts herself in agony in the background? quote:Jasper looked at Carlisle. “Neither of us recognized him. But here.” He held out something green and crumpled. Carlisle took it from him and held it to his face. I saw, as it exchanged hands, that it was a broken fern frond. “Maybe you know the scent.” Does Emmett just have a history of Kool-Aid Manning his way into vampire covens to ask what's up? quote:Just curious. Like James and Victoria had been curious, in the beginning? The thought of Victoria made me tremble, though the one thing they seemed certain of was that it had not been her. Not this time. She would stick to her obsessed pattern. This was just someone else, a stranger. Dead Herring! quote:I was slowly realizing that vampires were much bigger participants in this world than I’d once thought. How many times did the average human cross paths with them, completely unaware? How many deaths, obliviously reported as crimes and accidents, were really due to their thirst? How crowded would this new world be when I finally joined it? You're just now thinking about this? One of the most obvious conclusions to make when you find out that vampires are a thing? quote:The Cullens pondered Esme’s words with varying expressions. I could see that Edward did not accept her theory, and that Carlisle very much wanted to. How? Nobody can figure that out just by people's expressions! quote:Alice pursed her lips. “I don’t think so. The timing of it was too perfect.… This visitor was so careful to make no contact. Almost like he or she knew that I would see.…” "I can abandon him forever a few weeks from now after making him hate me and leave him wondering why his family just fell apart around him, but God forbid he dies!" quote:“Hardly, Bella,” Esme said, patting my hair again. “And nothing will happen to Charlie. We’re just going to have to be more careful.” Chapter break. Somehow even when the plot returns, it's just goddamn boring.
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# ? Dec 12, 2019 17:56 |
This is actual loving canon.
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 00:06 |
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Christ why can't she just say 'huh, I never really thought of that, I guess it wouldn't be enough to have an effect' or something. Instead of making up bizarre factoids.
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 01:00 |
HopperUK posted:Christ why can't she just say 'huh, I never really thought of that, I guess it wouldn't be enough to have an effect' or something. Instead of making up bizarre factoids. I actually saw a long chain of posts on Tumblr where people used the bite from James as a perfect justification for a lot of the stuff that happens, from Bella's impulsiveness and hallucinations in New Moon to her perfect Mary Sue resistance to blood thirst and not having any of the negatives of the vampire transformation. Meyer just has no consistency in anything she writes, so even stuff that could be justifiable ends up not.
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 01:03 |
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HopperUK posted:Christ why can't she just say 'huh, I never really thought of that, I guess it wouldn't be enough to have an effect' or something. Instead of making up bizarre factoids. The mental image of Edward doing serious duck face and inhaling so hard his cheeks go concave will now stay with me until I die. (Rowling might still have her beat, if that helps.)
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 01:50 |
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chitoryu12 posted:I actually saw a long chain of posts on Tumblr where people used the bite from James as a perfect justification for a lot of the stuff that happens, from Bella's impulsiveness and hallucinations in New Moon to her perfect Mary Sue resistance to blood thirst and not having any of the negatives of the vampire transformation. Meyer just has no consistency in anything she writes, so even stuff that could be justifiable ends up not. Yet another example of why these books could work if they were somehow written by almost anyone else, really. I bet there's fanfic out there that is way better than the books are.
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 01:57 |
Heading out of town. Thread updates will continue in about two weeks!
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# ? Dec 13, 2019 16:45 |
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Have a safe trip! Somehow I missed out on this thread until now. The sporking that’s been referred to I read in real time as much of it posted. If anyone following this is interested in how Twilight did so well then plummeted off the popular map I encourage you to look up Mervin’s reviews of various forum posts, interviews, and other communication Meyer herself had with fans, including a post from her brother-in-law where he responded in an rear end in a top hat way. This would have a ton of spoilers though so wait for the books to be done. There’s another very old review, the “Sparkledammerung,” which was made by an LJ user who had left the Mormon church as a young adult. If you have interest in how Meyer’s upbringing and religion likely influenced her work, check that out, again very spoilery. I believe it was referred to earlier in the thread but there are parallels with how Edward and Joseph Smith are described; also the “imprinting” is interpreted as the idea that in Mormon faith you have a predestined spouse. If anything this thread is making me appreciate the secondary characters more. I already support Leah Clearwater big time for a series I overall despise; Twilight is an exercise in wasted potential. While I’m glad it popularized the genre it’s so frustrating to see so many interesting ideas squandered.
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# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:17 |
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https://mobile.twitter.com/robertarchives/status/1204504471486660608
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# ? Dec 15, 2019 20:11 |
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I got linked this thread this morning and read through it today out of bile fascination. Atrocious subject matter, entertaining snark. What is it about Mormons writing fantasy and sci-fi that makes them so weird and full of utter sociopaths? Mormons gave us Twilight, the Ender's Game universe, and the goddamn kender from Dragonlance. Twilight, at least, is explicable enough by the author's own admission that it was based on a sex dream. A middle-aged Mormon housewife's wet dream becoming a best-selling book series and brief media phenomenon would be funny if I wasn't so concerned about the legitimate damage it may have done to young women.
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# ? Dec 23, 2019 03:59 |
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Cythereal posted:What is it about Mormons writing fantasy and sci-fi that makes them so weird and full of utter sociopaths? Mormons gave us Twilight, the Ender's Game universe, and the goddamn kender from Dragonlance. Eh, Tracy Hickman and Tasslehoff aren't that bad. Tasslehoff isn't a sociopath. He's a kleptomaniac with ADHD, but he'd do anything for his friends, and one of his defining personality traits is that he hates cruelty and seeing innocent people suffer. And, while I'm no big fan of OSC's politics, Ender from Ender's Game isn't a sociopath. He's in a situation where believes that all he's doing is playing a simulation, and then, when he discovers the truth, is ashamed and dedicates the rest of his life to make up for his actions. That's really what both Speaker for the Dead and Ender's Exile are about. So really, it's not Mormons so much as it's just her.
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# ? Dec 23, 2019 15:32 |
quote:It was a quiet ride home. I was frustrated. Against my better judgment, I was still human. Yeah in case you thought she had any other concerns during that scene, it really was just her going "Turn me into a vampire now!" again. quote:“You won’t be alone for a second,” Edward promised as he drove me to Charlie’s. “Someone will always be there. Emmett, Alice, Jasper…” Meyer is just trying so hard to make us hate Charlie and sympathize with Bella's desire to cut herself off permanently from him, and it keeps backfiring. quote:“Jacob called again,” Charlie said as soon as Edward was in the room. I kept my face empty as I set the plate in front of him. And when you aren't intentionally hurting your dad as much as possible out of spite. quote:So I would wait for the morning. I most likely wasn’t going to die tonight, after all, and it wouldn’t hurt him to feel guilty for twelve more hours. It might even be good for him. Edward just reciting "Goodnight Moon" to Bella every night while Alice and Emmett try to see who can throw boulders over the house the farthest. quote:In the morning, Charlie left to go fishing with Deputy Mark before I was up. I decided to use this lack of supervision to be divine. What kind of loving description of Bella is that? "Divine?" quote:“I knew you’d forgive him,” he said with an easy smile. “Holding grudges is not one of your many talents.” This is supposed to be the "young adult book" coming out again, but you can't use cliche high school tropes when you're forgiving something like "I hope you die instead of becoming a terrifying creature of the night, feasting on the flesh of innocents." quote:He laughed, exuberant with relief. “Come down to see me,” he begged. “I want to make it up to you.” He's going to eat the phone. quote:“Bella?” Jacob asked. Which isn't very. quote:The pause was shorter this time. It would work better if you could keep Paul from staring at the boundary waiting for the first excuse to massacre everyone on his side. quote:“What do you mean by ‘keep an eye on things’?”
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# ? Dec 30, 2019 17:21 |
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chitoryu12 posted:What kind of loving description of Bella is that? "Divine?” Big John Waters fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_(performer)
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# ? Dec 30, 2019 17:45 |
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She's riffing on 'to err is human, to forgive divine' but it misses the mark pretty badly.
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# ? Dec 31, 2019 02:54 |
Chapter 10: Scentquote:It was all very childish. Why on Earth should Edward have to leave for Jacob to come over? Weren’t we past this kind of immaturity? If we were, Meyer wouldn't be able to write a plot. quote:“It’s not that I feel any personal antagonism toward him, Bella, it’s just easier for both of us,” Edward told me at the door. “I won’t be far away. You’ll be safe.” quote:Grumbling to myself, I went to clean up the kitchen. Before I even had the sink full of water, the doorbell rang. It was hard to get used to how much faster Jacob was without his car. How everyone seemed to be so much faster than me.… Forks is the only zero-crime town in the United States. quote:“Good point,” he agreed. Stop mocking the poor, Bella. quote:He ran a hand through his wet hair; it was falling in his eyes. Is he just...strapping his pants to his wolf body? quote:He grinned. “Does my being half-naked bother you?” She's like an NPC bartender wiping a glass endlessly during a conversation. quote:“Whew!” Jacob said, inches behind me, scaring me again. It should! quote:He was silent as he reached for the bowl in my hands. I peeked up at his face—he was frowning, his lower lip jutting out. She has a Greek statue fetish. quote:“You don’t worry about the fangs?” And immediately sliced four fingers off? quote:“Can I ask another one?” he asked softly when I passed the knife to him. “Just curious, again.” No! That's the wrong person to do that! quote:My head spun and my stomach rolled. I clung to the countertop with one hand, took a deep breath through my mouth, and forced myself to get a grip so that I could take care of him. Ah, the faintness when around blood has finally returned after a pointed absence. It matters just as much as it always does. quote:I inhaled through my mouth and removed my teeth from my lower lip. “Don’t be brave.” Don't laugh. Normally her fits end with her self-harming or crashing her car into yours on purpose. quote:“If you don’t let me see your hand, a fit is guaranteed.” Wait, we already covered werewolf healing abilities in an earlier chapter. Why do we need to redo this with two pages of Bella agonizing over it? quote:His eyes held mine for an immeasurable moment. But completely pointless since we already knew about it! quote:I kneeled down and dug the bleach out of the cabinet under the sink. Then I poured some on a dusting rag and started scrubbing the floor. The burning scent of the bleach cleared the last of the dizziness from my head. *ticks off another box* quote:Huh. Maybe. But at least I had a good excuse this time. “We’re a bit sensitive to blood around here. I’m sure you can understand that.” "When he and his friends are going into murderous werewolf rages and cutting themselves in my kitchen, not so much." quote:He grinned widely, his teeth bright against his russet skin. “Thanks, Bella,” he said, and then he grabbed my hand and wrenched me into one of his bone-crushing hugs. A love triangle based entirely around heavy breathing on the girl and projecting images into a vampire's mind to taunt him. quote:“One of the many hazards of socializing with vampires,” Jacob said, shrugging. “It makes you smell bad. A minor hazard, comparatively.” Except earlier when he had absolutely no trouble at any point? And was in fact bragging about all the benefits of being a werewolf? quote:His big dark eyes were full of unashamed pleading. Okay, what the gently caress? This isn't even the first time Meyer has treated outright abuse as humorous, but now she's even having the characters calling it out for what it is being a joke? What the hell is wrong with her? quote:Seconds after he was gone, Edward walked slowly into the kitchen, raindrops glistening like diamonds set into the bronze of his hair. His eyes were wary. Edward didn't even loving question it. Saw a bloody knife and immediately assumed one of them must have been stabbing the other. quote:I pulled away from him and ran to put the knife in the sink before I doused it with bleach. Yeah, I actually am questioning that. We've barely seen anything of Bella's schoolwork except for a few offhand remarks in her junior year about having already done the work in Phoenix, which says more about Forks than Bella's supposed intelligence. She's often surprisingly dim, in fact. quote:I took a deep breath and counted slowly to ten. “That’s very generous of them,” I finally said. “However, accepted or not, there is still the minor matter of tuition. I can’t afford it, and I’m not letting you throw away enough money to buy yourself another sports car just so that I can pretend to go to Dartmouth next year.” It says a lot about how this is written. One of the few times Bella shows anything but disdain toward her father, it's at the thought of him celebrating her achievements. It's not actually about him, it's all about her. quote:I tried to shake the image out of my head. “Edward. I’m worried about living through graduation, let alone this summer or next fall.” If you didn't know anything about this series, you'd swear that it was leading up to Bella deciding not to become a vampire. quote:I stared down at the big white envelope, not seeing it. “But still true.” "Normally she's more into destroying them." quote:“Yeah, I guess that’s what she was doing. When she came to get my pajamas and pillow and stuff to hold me hostage.” I glowered at him briefly. “She picked up everything that was lying around, my shirts, my socks, and I don’t know where she put them.” Again, how does such a dramatic moment come off so dull and lifeless? Any other writer would make this the big reveal that ends the chapter, but Bella just sort of goes "Oh well" and forgets about it. quote:He pulled out his phone and glanced at the number. “Just the person I need to talk to,” he murmured, and then he flipped it open. “Carlisle, I—” He broke off and listened, his face taut with concentration for a few minutes. “I’ll check it out. Listen…” What did Emmett do? quote:He snapped the phone shut. “Where’s the paper?” he asked me. Half a second? Edward is zipping around like the loving Roadrunner! quote:“Carlisle’s right… yes… very sloppy. Young and crazed? Or a death wish?” he muttered to himself. Oh no! Atlanta is the 9th best city to be a vampire! quote:I shuddered again. “What can we do?” He's the only one whose tragic backstory we haven't unlocked! quote:“What a mess,” I mumbled. "I can hear every noise for miles. I'm physically incapable of not eavesdropping." quote:“Well, I wasn’t going to ask you anyway. I figured you had enough to stress about.” "I violate everyone's privacy all the time! It's the only way I can socialize!" quote:I just stared at him, trying to understand what he wanted, and trying to put out of my mind the yearning I felt to go to La Push so that I wouldn’t be swayed by my own wishes. It was stupid to want to go hang out with a bunch of big idiot wolf-boys right now when there was so much that was frightening and unexplained going on. Of course, that was exactly why I wanted to go. I wanted to escape the death threats, for just a few hours… to be the less-mature, more-reckless Bella who could laugh it off with Jacob, if only briefly. But that didn’t matter. Just remember that at any time he can rescind this and you can't do anything! quote:“And Jacob’s right—about one thing, anyway—a pack of werewolves ought to be enough to protect even you for one evening.” Chapter break.
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# ? Dec 31, 2019 18:29 |
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How does everyone else in Forks not wonder why the Cullens' eyes alternate between being nearly black and being their usual color -- do they just think everyone's wearing contacts?
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# ? Jan 2, 2020 06:32 |
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:How does everyone else in Forks not wonder why the Cullens' eyes alternate between being nearly black and being their usual color -- do they just think everyone's wearing contacts? I think the implication is people are too focused on how distant/dreamy/inscrutable the Cullens are to notice them being vampire weird instead of normal weird.
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# ? Jan 2, 2020 10:43 |
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For a moment I thought they wore contacts to blend in, but then I remembered Meyer made a post on one of the old fan forums where she explained how her vampires have “venom” that’s overridden every fluid type in their body and it would dissolve contacts. I could be remembering the contact part wrong, but I swear the venom itself is totally true, including the detail that it’s highly flammable.
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# ? Jan 2, 2020 16:47 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:18 |
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Seems correct, you see how fast a vampire goes up if you light them on fire multiple times in the books and movies. That explains why since you wouldn't think rock skin would burn super fast.
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# ? Jan 3, 2020 05:24 |