|
And that is under the assumption that the Regelsatz actually covers the Existenzminimum, which is highly unlikely due to the way the Regelsatz is calculated and how the law actually has to have special regimes for how to handle situations where the Regelsatz does not suffice, e.g. the fact that Regelsatz cannot deal with actually purchasing long-term goods like furniture. And that's not even getting started on how HartzbIV for children "works".
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 08:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
Einbauschrank posted:What kind of relevant and individually attributable economic wealth do you imagine being left after 40 years of Socialism? My guess would be around 5000€ median household wealth at the beginning of 1992 due to very low household debt and 1:2 conversion of savings accounts. That would mean in the 30 years since reunification half of the people in east Germany did not manage to accumulate wealth at a rate of 600€ per year and is just mindboggling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 09:08
|
|
|
elbkaida posted:My guess would be around 5000€ median household wealth at the beginning of 1992 due to very low household debt and 1:2 conversion of savings accounts. Wealth is slowly accumulated. West Germany still lags behind the PIIGS (including Greece) in terms of median wealth because of the destruction of private housing property in WW2 and all the Vertriebene arriving with only little Hab and no Gut. I‘d guess that some/much of these savings you mention immediately went into the purchase of a real car and other stuff. There‘s also a study on the Vermögensverteilung in the GDR and, lo and behold, some animals were more equal than others in workers‘ paradise. The Vermögensverteilung apparently was pretty much the same as in the FRG: 10% of Ossis owned 60% of the savings in bank accounts in 1990. So the average wealth would be less interesting than the median wealth and I didn‘t find much on that. Those Ossis who accumulated wealth after 1990 most likely did so by migrating westward and staying there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 11:58
|
|
|
Homeless person in west Germany: wow I'm so happy to have more wealth than my east German neighbours, the stats say so!
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 12:01
|
|
|
the only major parties arguing against austerity at this point are the Greens and the AfD, right? How hosed are the CDU when the next financial crisis hits?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 14:18
|
|
|
Venomous posted:the only major parties arguing against austerity at this point are the Greens and the AfD, right? How hosed are the CDU when the next financial crisis hits? The SPD is currently beating itself up over whether "austerity 2: austastic boogaloo" or "maybe borrowing a few euros at literal sub zero interest rates won't turn the country into a glowing crater after all" is the correct position to take
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 14:31
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
if they were smart they'd see Corbyn walking into Downing Street on Friday and think 'hey, maybe we should copy Corbyn and trash this austerity bullshit, because that'll win us votes', but they won't smdh
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 14:58
|
|
|
Venomous posted:if they were smart they'd see Corbyn walking into Downing Street on Friday and think 'hey, maybe we should copy Corbyn and trash this austerity bullshit, because that'll win us votes', but they won't I would think it is more of a reflection of their class interests than their stupidity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 15:03
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:I would think it is more of a reflection of their class interests than their stupidity. after hearing the delegate speak in the tagesschau gestern I vote stupidity, like incredible stupidity
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 15:08
|
|
|
I mean, it can also be more than 1 thing
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Venomous posted:the only major parties arguing against austerity at this point are the Greens and the AfD, right? How hosed are the CDU when the next financial crisis hits? Do you have the afd and linke confused? Cause afd is hardcore "grind the lazy dirty poors into a fine dust with bootstraps" e: their standpoint is that there is not enough austerity and that's why everything sucks(aside from the foreigners, it's their fault too!)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 15:51
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:Do you have the afd and linke confused? Cause afd is hardcore "grind the lazy dirty poors into a fine dust with bootstraps" ah, my apologies, I was sure AfD's thing was hardcore 'blame the immigrants and minorities for our economic troubles', hence why people vote for them as an alternative to the CDU/SPD etc. kind of like why iirc people voted for the Nazis, because they were the only party who (a) weren't campaigning for hardcore austerity (b) weren't dirty commies
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 16:43
|
|
|
Venomous posted:ah, my apologies, I was sure AfD's thing was hardcore 'blame the immigrants and minorities for our economic troubles', hence why people vote for them as an alternative to the CDU/SPD etc. The AfD's genesis was basically as a "free market and rationality über alles (but also we hate foreigners)" neoliberal deal. They started marching directly rightward pretty much from the word go and ended up where they are now, but there's still plenty neoliberalism in their DNA left. Plus of course there's now a sizeable contingent of crusty former CDU people in there, which skews their economic policy further in that direction.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
Venomous posted:ah, my apologies, I was sure AfD's thing was hardcore 'blame the immigrants and minorities for our economic troubles', hence why people vote for them as an alternative to the CDU/SPD etc. This narrative is falling more and more out of favor in Germany because it's just not supported by the data coming in. For example, the average Afd has an above average income and education, they are not the Lumpenproletariat exactly. Even in the east AfD(which is a very different beast from the West AfD) the people who have profited the most from reunification are overrepresented. The most disadvantaged and left behind are voting Linke or not at all. Basically, any attempt to explain the AfD away by economics is gonna fail. There is a massive "völkisch"/national-socialist streak to it that is completely decoupled from economics.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 17:47
|
|
|
yikes. Fair dos. Greens and Die Linke then? Welp.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 19:00
|
|
|
Venomous posted:kind of like why iirc people voted for the Nazis, because they were the only party who (a) weren't campaigning for hardcore austerity (b) weren't dirty commies Re: Nazi and austerity, it's funny to see how economists like Hjalmar Schacht were full-on pro-austerity hawks until fascism was achieved, at which point they turned into full-on public spending hawks. It's as if they knew austerity was an abominably bad idea for the economy of the country, but felt the damage was worth it if it meant it could establish fascism.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 20:43
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:Re: Nazi and austerity, it's funny to see how economists like Hjalmar Schacht were full-on pro-austerity hawks until fascism was achieved, at which point they turned into full-on public spending hawks. It's as if they knew austerity was an abominably bad idea for the economy of the country, but felt the damage was worth it if it meant it could establish fascism. You don't need austerity when you're going to loot half of Europe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
Hannibal Rex posted:You don't need austerity when you're going to loot half of Europe. well, you do when you're done looting europe neoliberalism is what happens when there's nothing left to loot but the infrastructure
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
Hannibal Rex posted:You don't need austerity when you're going to loot half of Europe. Schacht made his 180° turn in 1934, so there were several years to go before any looting could be planned.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
Einbauschrank posted:Wealth is slowly accumulated. West Germany still lags behind the PIIGS (including Greece) in terms of median wealth because of the destruction of private housing property in WW2 and all the Vertriebene arriving with only little Hab and no Gut. So you're saying the distribution is a problem? Because average wealth is much bigger in Germany. Greece somehow having a 70+% home ownership rate just seems to even things out a little better. Not sure the destruction of private housing means much if it's not owned by the people living there anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:Schacht made his 180° turn in 1934, so there were several years to go before any looting could be planned. Hitler was quite open about his plans, so boy are you wrong there (Schacht was even actively helping to finance the Aufrüstung of the Wehrmacht, at least in the beginning.) Though Schacht evidently made a completely different 180° turn later, as he lost his post in 1937, ended up as a minister without a post until 1943 and finally ended up in a concentration camp himself. 
Libluini fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Dec 10, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 00:16
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:The AfD's genesis was basically as a "free market and rationality über alles (but also we hate foreigners)" neoliberal deal. They started marching directly rightward pretty much from the word go and ended up where they are now, but there's still plenty neoliberalism in their DNA left. Plus of course there's now a sizeable contingent of crusty former CDU people in there, which skews their economic policy further in that direction. Very late to AfD chat, but it basicallly started as the gently caress Greece party.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 09:20
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Hitler was quite open about his plans, so boy are you wrong there Also the seizure of jewish owned property brought in a lot of money. The looting began with internal enemies before it was extended to external ones.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 09:26
|
|
|
Man I almost got my lease on this sterbliche Hülle cancelled at 6:20 this morning. Was pootling about with ze FLURFÖRDERFAHRZEUG and next thing I know a Palette with a quarter ton of potatos that the Fahrer had oopsied off the Laderampe whooshes by my shoulder. Turned my back on the moving load like a CHUMP. gently caress me, so schnell kanns gehen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 12:48
|
|
|
aphid_licker posted:Man I almost got my lease on this sterbliche Hülle cancelled at 6:20 this morning. Was pootling about with ze FLURFÖRDERFAHRZEUG and next thing I know a Palette with a quarter ton of potatos that the Fahrer had oopsied off the Laderampe whooshes by my shoulder. Turned my back on the moving load like a CHUMP. gently caress me, so schnell kanns gehen.  Glad you're okay, aphid_licker!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 12:53
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:
I'm not gonna lie, the fact that it was literally just random chance that I didn't get smashed isn't sitting well with me rn. I'd say I gotta be more careful but at 6:20 you're gonna be underslept and doing poo poo on autopilot some of the time, no way around it. Change of career time maybe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:02
|
|
|
Death by potato, the most German way to go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:06
|
|
|
That’s Irish.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:16
|
|
|
I think you'll find that would be death by lack of potato.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:24
|
|
|
Zwille posted:That’s Irish. No, that would be death from a lack of potato e: welp
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:27
|
|
|
Glad that you're not potato stew, Gabelstaplerfahrer* aphid_licker
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:30
|
|
|
Death by lack of potato is still death by potato  Wait actually aphid is Irish now because he survived by lack of potato I guess. 🤔
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:51
|
|
|
Zwille posted:Death by lack of potato is still death by potato To be nitpicky (and we are in the perfect place for it, after all), it was mostly death by the English. Because of course it was the English
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 13:57
|
|
|
Sereri posted:Glad that you're not potato stew, Gabelstaplerfahrer* aphid_licker  Zwille posted:Death by lack of potato is still death by potato Surviving by lack of potato is, like, antiirish. Should I ever touch an Irish person we will immediately cancel out each other's existence. e: oh god one more thing I need to avoid. Paletten, Irish people, it's a dangerous world out there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 14:59
|
|
|
When the potatoes come at you how you gonna go? crushed down on the pavement or making GBS threads yourself on the Altersheim floor?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:08
|
|
|
Check out this fun E-Mail we got at work today: At least it’s something different for a change than yet another insane tradcath filling up our inbox with rants about how pope francis is an alien freemason or w/e
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
I'm Cc: Rainer Wendt
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:When the potatoes come at you nice
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 19:21
|
|
|
System Metternich posted:Check out this fun E-Mail we got at work today: You make it sound like there are catholics who are not insane op
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
oliwan posted:You make it sound like there are catholics who are not insane op https://twitter.com/ebruenig/
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 19:55
|
|