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Poe and Finn did nothing in this movie while also looking like idiots delivering their lines poorly.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:17
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SpaceDrake posted:They're Tom Hardy in Star Trek Nemesis: they kind of suspect their movie is going to be bad, but they're consummate professionals doing their best to turn in the most compelling performances possible with the material they've been given. Driver has definitely built a reputation as a hard worker as well as a talented performer, so I think he'll be fine. Either he or his agent have an eye for a good script (this poo poo notwithstanding, contractual obligations etc) based on his body of work in general, and despite all the failings of this trilogy he has come out of it smelling of roses imo
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Dec 20, 2019 11:17
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Look, in the end, there are going to be people who care about the minutia of a story and how things connect to one another on a technical level and people who care more about how it connects on a thematic level. If you personally don't care about one or the other, your feelings towards a piece of work are going to change either way. That's what I'm getting from all these arguments.SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:TLJ is a poor story because of how it treats Finn, Poe, and Rose. TRoS seems to double-down further on that treatment, or ignore the characters completely. It's incredibly obvious choices yet depressingly systemic at the same time. No matter how much TLJ attempted to progress past Star Wars nostalgia, it failed to do so by treating those three characters the way it did - or rather, the way several people involved in the creative process and those who tell the creatives what to do, did. None of those were the actors themselves for the record, and it's lovely what Boyega, Issac, and especially Tran have gone through after clearly giving their all to these films. Of all the giant companies Disney could absolutely take huge risks with Star Wars and lose very little, but they want to be as safe as possible with the most milquetoast mediocrity. What I think told me the most that like... they didn't know what to 'do' with Poe and Finn, was the story that it was meant to be the two of them on the Casino planet and having their daring adventure together. And even if the entire story otherwise plays out the same, it does work better by having it directly be Poe and Finn's reckless actions to ruin a plan they weren't privy to. It removes the stupid mutiny storyline and also Holdo's condescension towards Poe that makes the entire scene really boring and dull. But, Rian for some reason, thought Poe and Finn were "Too similar" as characters. And that's the moment I realized that those characters would never get a fair shake. Which is a pity because like you said those actors are working so fuckin' hard. Onmi fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 11:17
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Captain Jesus posted:The guy with the palpatine avatar was saying that tros was bad because people criticized TLJ, which is what i was reacting to. Oh, ok lol. My bad!
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Dec 20, 2019 11:19
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Onmi posted:Look, in the end, there are going to be people who care about the minutia of a story and how things connect to one another on a technical level and people who care more about how it connects on a thematic level. If you personally don't care about one or the other, your feelings towards a piece of work are going to change either way. That's what I'm getting from all these arguments. Shh, if you're too reasonable people may never angrily talk about Star Wars online again
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Dec 20, 2019 11:21
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feedmyleg posted:Shh, if you're too reasonable people may never angrily talk about Star Wars online again I don't know what I was thinking, I'll strive to do better in the future.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:22
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Tarnop posted:Driver has definitely built a reputation as a hard worker as well as a talented performer, so I think he'll be fine. Either he or his agent have an eye for a good script (this poo poo notwithstanding, contractual obligations etc) based on his body of work in general, and despite all the failings of this trilogy he has come out of it smelling of roses imo Driver has already worked with Jarmusch, Baumbach, Soderbergh, Spike lee and Martin loving Scorcese, he is on a safe Pattison career track
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Dec 20, 2019 11:27
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If TLJ had ended where people say they wanted it to end, it would have been the biggest bullshit cliffhanger ever. You'd have to restructure the movie pretty radically to make it work as any kind of ending, considering at that point the Rebellion are also all getting blown up, and Finn and Rose are about to be executed. Plus, you know they would have just opened the next one with "NOPE" anyway.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:30
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Onmi posted:Look, in the end, there are going to be people who care about the minutia of a story and how things connect to one another on a technical level and people who care more about how it connects on a thematic level. If you personally don't care about one or the other, your feelings towards a piece of work are going to change either way. That's what I'm getting from all these arguments. I thought it also didn't help that Finn's arc in TLJ was largely the same as TFA. Including beating up Phasma. It just felt meh to the point where while coming from TFA I thought Finn had a lot of potential I basically felt TLJ was hurt by the casino stuff. Also I never quite bought into the idea of Kylo's path away as a potential good thing, but that's mostly due to him being a complete poo poo in TFA. It's hard for me to go from 'Oh you're murdering a village and okay with destroying an entire planet and billions of people' even if I think you can tell a good story of how you got to that point.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:31
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Vince MechMahon posted:I just watched the first two and this is just completely wrong. TFA makes it very clear that the republic is being soft on the first order, and won't approve a real military, but sanction Leia and a very small band is resistance fighters. Then the first order loving blows up five planets or whatever and totally destroys the republic. TLJ has an ending that literally sets up the resistance growing thanks to the signal getting sent, and the idea that help is coming, that ROS then completely loving fumbles in the dumbest way, which isn't even the worst thing it did in trying to erase TLJ. You missed the point because you apparently don't pay attention and make stuff up instead. It's never established that First Order completely destroys the republic. The destory a couple of planets and the fleet, but we don't really know the extent of the Republic. It used to be thousands of systems. The resources of the First Order are also never established. The resistance destroys the Starkiller Base which was their ace in the hole for all we know. At the end of TFA the First Order might as well be in the same spot as the Republic. Nothing indicates that they have the resources to take over the galaxy right then and there. It is only the TLJ that decideds the republic is actually hosed and the First Order reigns. This is reflected in Finn proudly declaring to be "Rebel scum" for example. The filmmakers wanted the OT status quo and decided to revert to it in TLJ. The ending of TLJ also doesn't actually set up the resitance growing. We see them call for help that doesn't come and they are reduced to a group of 12 people. Compared that to ESB where we actually see a sizeable rebel fleet at the end. The ending of TLJ is more like the ending of ROTS that promises hope, but a distant one, by showing up a force sensitive kid looking up to the stars. Mooey Cow posted:If TLJ had ended where people say they wanted it to end, it would have been the biggest bullshit cliffhanger ever. You'd have to restructure the movie pretty radically to make it work as any kind of ending, considering at that point the Rebellion are also all getting blown up, and Finn and Rose are about to be executed. My ideal ending for TLJ would be after Holdo hyperspace rams the Snokeship while leaving Rey's reaction to Kylo's offer ambiguous. The movie would show them both surviving and getting separated, while maitaining their bond. They could have set it up in a way that the hyperspace ram would have destroyed/disabled most of the First Order fleet and allowed the rest of the Resistance fleet to escape and regroup. It would be similar to the ESB ending in this regard. My biggest problem with TLJ is really the "fourt act" on Crait. Captain Jesus fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 11:38
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Mooey Cow posted:If TLJ had ended where people say they wanted it to end, it would have been the biggest bullshit cliffhanger ever. You'd have to restructure the movie pretty radically to make it work as any kind of ending, considering at that point the Rebellion are also all getting blown up, and Finn and Rose are about to be executed. I mean this one opened up with NOPE, it was going to open up with NOPE in all but one circumstance, and even that circumstance was likely going to open up with NOPE. There's a lot of excuses made for why there's such a radical shift, "No plan for the trilogy at the start" is a big one, but then there's also that everyone kept throwing out everyone elses treatment. JJ apparently threw out Lucas's treatment for 7, Rian threw out JJ's treatment for 8 and 9, and I'm pretty sure JJ had to throw out his own treatment for 9, or alter it heavily enough to basically be its own thing. Lord knows if Rian actually did a treatment for 9, I'm going to guess not. Not out of malice, but because 9's production started mid-way through 8's filming. For all the hype of The Story Group, it's not that no one had any ideas, it's that no one wanted to do anyone else's ideas but their own. And whoever in charge is meant to go down to each director and smack them on the back of the hand and say "Stick to the plan." Gorelab posted:I thought it also didn't help that Finn's arc in TLJ was largely the same as TFA. Including beating up Phasma. It just felt meh to the point where while coming from TFA I thought Finn had a lot of potential I basically felt TLJ was hurt by the casino stuff. Also I never quite bought into the idea of Kylo's path away as a potential good thing, but that's mostly due to him being a complete poo poo in TFA. It's hard for me to go from 'Oh you're murdering a village and okay with destroying an entire planet and billions of people' even if I think you can tell a good story of how you got to that point. Like you said, he has the same arc in TLJ that he has in TFA, and in this film, he has no Arc. Despite having 3 movies with these characters I couldn't tell you who any of them are outside of who they were when read off a casting list.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:40
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Is there something about young Carrie Fisher's face that makes it impossible to recreate without looking like poo poo? Also for that last scene of Lando either his face was CGI or that's just how Billy looks now.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:40
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thrawn527 posted:I agree that JJ isn't interested in politics, but I'm going to have to push back on how much the OT cared as well. Sure, in ANH you hear about some vague Clone Wars, and you get a comment about how the Senate has been abolished and is no longer needed because they have the Death Star and will use it to rule with fear. Which is an interesting idea and cool bit of world building. But then the Death Star is destroyed and...that never really comes up as an issue in politics. Did he have to bring the Senate back? Does he just rule with fear of all of their Star Destroyers? If he could do that, why didn't he do that before the Death Star? Sure, a 2nd one is built in ROTJ, but no one knows about that for years, so that isn't it. You'd expect the sequel to bring that up at all if it was interested in the politics of the galaxy. But I'll give you ANH. Posting from the past because I cannot read everything fast enough, and I think someone would reply to this something similar, but isn't existence of pretty big fleet of Rebel Alliance a small proof that ruling with fear, but without Death Star isn't working out that well? (I am assuming it takes a while to organize this multi-species fleet that is willing to destroy yet another death star)
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Dec 20, 2019 11:45
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teagone posted:Yeah, there's also a significant gap between judging a film for what its narrative goals are and judging it with ones's own narrative goals in mind. Typical hardcore fandom folk go for the latter when criticizing a film without ever considering the former. TLJ is the Go Set a Watchman of the star wars series
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Dec 20, 2019 11:46
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Remember that the new algorithm for rotten tomato audience score doesn't count half star reviews.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:47
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commando in tophat posted:Posting from the past because I cannot read everything fast enough, and I think someone would reply to this something similar, but isn't existence of pretty big fleet of Rebel Alliance a small proof that ruling with fear, but without Death Star isn't working out that well? (I am assuming it takes a while to organize this multi-species fleet that is willing to destroy yet another death star) I assume so, Remember that even back then the movies were written with events taking place between them (Lucas loved doing this) Characters like Han would talk about running into smugglers on planets based on adventures covered in books, or perhaps not at all. Apparently, between Empire and RotJ, Luke and Leia lived together in Obi-Wan's cave while he taught himself the force for like... 6 months. Which shocked me, I always did find it confusing as I'd simply assumed he'd gone back to Yoda for training and when he returned after Tattooine it was a "Okay so I'm here for my last lesson."
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Dec 20, 2019 11:50
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Rebels fans will get this: https://twitter.com/unartifex/status/1206821853869641728
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Dec 20, 2019 12:03
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teagone posted:Rebels fans will get this: Only thing I know about Rebels is they invented and then got rid of Time Travel to keep Ahsoka alive
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Dec 20, 2019 12:12
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The Worlds Between Worlds from Rebels made for really cool rear end visuals. Was hoping they'd bring that kind of "time travel" into live-action for TROS and go full Endgame or something. Jump back to the prequel era and grab Anakin before he turns to the dark side to fight Ben or some stupid poo poo like that.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:14
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teagone posted:The Worlds Between Worlds from Rebels made for really cool rear end visuals. Was hoping they'd bring that kind of "time travel" into live-action for TROS and go full Endgame or something. Jump back to the prequel era and grab Anakin before he turns to the dark side to fight Ben or some stupid poo poo like that. That'd be batshit. Fund it.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:18
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H13 posted:You have absolutely nothing to base that on. Now I feel like I'm getting trolled Can you seriously not comprehend the act of espionage? Loose lips sink ships? Poe was just demoted for loving up bigly, and he was talking down to a loving ADMIRAL. Yet you're blaming Holdo for Poe being a complete dumbass prick? Why isn't that his own fault, at least in your mind? Is there a particular reason why you're blaming Admiral Holdo instead of newly demoted PFC Poe? I think getting to the bottom of this is important before we move forward with more of your arguments.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:38
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This is Star Wars and not one person has talked about the laser swording in this movie. Was it that unremarkable?
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Dec 20, 2019 12:44
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gohmak posted:This is Star Wars and not one person has talked about the laser swording in this movie. Was it that unremarkable? the teleporting lightsaber trick was fun, but otherwise it was an afterthought hilariously the swords are suddenly EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ARTIFACTS in the story no duel of the fates in the soundtrack is criminal
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Dec 20, 2019 12:48
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gohmak posted:This is Star Wars and not one person has talked about the laser swording in this movie. Was it that unremarkable? The death star wreckage duel was fantastic. None of the fights in TROS top TLJ's throne room brawl though, imo, even with how unique the force connection stuff between Rey and Ben is. The fight with Sheev was lame.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:51
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:Can you seriously not comprehend the act of espionage? Loose lips sink ships? Poe was just demoted for loving up bigly, and he was talking down to a loving ADMIRAL. Yet you're blaming Holdo for Poe being a complete dumbass prick? Why isn't that his own fault, at least in your mind? Is there a particular reason why you're blaming Admiral Holdo instead of newly demoted PFC Poe? shut the gently caress up lmao
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Dec 20, 2019 12:51
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If they really wanted to undo all of TLJ, they should've just done it in the crawl.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:54
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teagone posted:The death star wreckage duel was fantastic. None of the fights in TROS top TLJ's throne room brawl though, imo, even with how unique the force connection stuff between Rey and Ben is. The fight with Sheev was lame. I mean the throne room brawl is really bad in my books, remember when the CGI'd out one of the troopers weapons mid-swing because it was going to hit Rey? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/146858340352393217/657082842710409217/1576725881133.webm Like... it didn't have any real emotional weight, so I wasn't invested on that end, and technically, it wasn't very well choreographed, it just seemed kinda clunky.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:04
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romanowski posted:too bad he didn't even attempt to achieve all that and just filled all that time with mcguffins and clunky exposition Motherfucker did you just uncovered what mckunckley means!?
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Dec 20, 2019 13:06
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After a night of sleep...Dishwasher posted:If this wasn't Star Wars [...] I'd say it was a disaster. Instead, it just might be in my top 3. Yup, this is the crux of it. Popcorn movie. Star Wars doesn’t have a brain, it is not meant to be deep. Exactly what I thought it was. Like, TROS cements Star Wars as mindless entertainment for me. I never believed that the movies were deep at all, even the original trilogy is just schlock. That’s what the loving series is, and always has been. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 13:10
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honestly, one of the sadder things that's shown up in pop culture over the past few years is this new method of defense for sub-par products in a franchise: 'the thing you like? it was never good.' it's ridiculous lol
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Dec 20, 2019 13:14
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gohmak posted:This is Star Wars and not one person has talked about the laser swording in this movie. Was it that unremarkable? It didn't bother me. The whole "swording as a mean to convey an emotional conflict" seemed to be behind the laser fights. They sorta had a purpose, and the trick with the lightsabers was... interesting. I got slightly excited at seeing the characters actually get tired, or Rey doing some moves that resembled Palpatine's. Some of it goes on for a bit too long but it never felt as exhausting to me as the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan felt the first time I saw it. I'm probably a lovely fake Star Wars fans because I don't care about the lightsabers, and the best I can say about this movie is that they were unremarkable, yes. Onmi posted:Only thing I know about Rebels is they invented and then got rid of Time Travel to keep Ahsoka alive As much as I don't like Time Travel and didn't care for that plot, Rebels had a lot of interesting concepts related to the Force that made a lot of sense with the way Force is described. The two main force-user characters have plot armor, sadly, but it's the same plot armor as every other main character. More importantly, they're not super badass warmongering swordsmen. The master is very insecure because he's a fairly mediocre Force user as far as the legends go, and the main character's thing is communing with nature and animals. He's a bit roguish with a lovely upbringing and prefers blasters to swords. The Rey scene in the new movie where she peacefully gets around an animal, in contrast with Luke killing the Jabba's pit monster, is the kind of thing that happened a lot in Rebels with the main character solving problems peacefully. It's an interesting set of ideas that bit by bit made the Force feel like a much bigger thing than presented in most other places. I'm not a huge fan of Luke's training but at least it makes sense in the context of a war, and even then Yoda tried to make he see past the physicality of it. Unfortunately, Rebels is severely weighted down by a myriad of factors, too many to count. With that said, Rebels had my favorite lightsaber in all of the franchise. Elentor fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 13:14
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All I ask for is permission to be noisy in the theater during this movie.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:23
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Horizon Burning posted:honestly, one of the sadder things that's shown up in pop culture over the past few years is this new method of defense for sub-par products in a franchise: 'the thing you like? it was never good.' it's ridiculous lol I don't get this argument, like... if people are arguing, legitimately "Why you so mad, it's a story about space wizards meant for children" Like... okay, isn't that defense basically saying "I consume poo poo, this isn't good, because it's made for children and thus has no standard of quality, and I like it, therefore I like poo poo. Like even in this thread you see "Oh it's schlock." Do you... particularly like schlock? I think people use schlock instead of 'trash' because it sounds better to say "It's schlock I enjoy" rather than "It's trash I enjoy" the former just sounds better. Like... I can enjoy things based on their elements, like... I am a big fan of Giant robots, so I dug Pacific Rim 1 because it had interesting Giant Robot battles. I hate Transformers because I'm not just going to go "Oh man, giant robots" if the actual fighting and designs are ugly. Like... do people really think the original trilogy was trash? That there was nothing good in it, that it's inferior as a story? Why? Because it's silly? Because it's a fairy tale in space? I know for someone who's as negative as me, calling out people for being negative is a weird one but... if you use that defense it's basically an admission of "It's poo poo, and I like poo poo, I recognize there is nothing good or redeemable here, but I consume trash." Elentor posted:It didn't bother me. The whole "swording as a mean to convey an emotional conflict" seemed to be behind the laser fights. They sorta had a purpose, and the trick with the lightsabers was... interesting. I got slightly excited at seeing the characters actually get tired, or Rey doing some moves that resembled Palpatine's. Some of it goes on for a bit too long but it never felt as exhausting to me as the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan felt the first time I saw it. Rebels had one of my favourite fights, even if the context of the fight was silly (And I've only seen a clip) in Maul vs Obi-Wan on Tattooine. Because it's a very short fight, and it reminds me of a samurai quickdraw fight, there's very few moves and movements and it ends in a single blow.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:29
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Can someone tell me, how did the ship that blew up Party Planet, leave? I thought they were all stuck for 17 hours, but it was out and about blowing up planets. I know I saw it in the movie, but I think I forgot a scene where that happened. Was it Kylo's ship after he meant Palpatine? If so, why was it ready and the rest of the fleet still needing 17 hours? Was the party planet the same one as the old city one they got C-3PO reset? I got the impression it was a completly different planet. I really want to know what the original endings were now. And the scenes that were cut. So, who wants to bet what Oscars are going to be nominated for this movie? My bet is 3, and no winners.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:42
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Pollyanna posted:All I ask for is permission to be noisy in the theater during this movie. Please don't play the RLM commentary track in the theater.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:43
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I'm sorry if this has been brought up already but I have to ask. Did JJ really just toss Kelli Marie Tran's character to the background AND give Finn a new girlfriend to appease lovely fanboys who harassed her off the internet? Because gently caress JJ and this film if true.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:52
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Mooey Cow posted:Please don't play the RLM commentary track in the theater. Too late, I’m already in my Plinkett cosplay. Solaris 2.0 posted:I'm sorry if this has been brought up already but I have to ask. Yes.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:55
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Pollyanna posted:After a night of sleep... Please elaborate what definition of schlock Star Wars fulfils and why you think it does , especially the OT. You don't have to of course, but it would make your posts look more like actual opinions instead of raving of a lunatic who just discovered Star Wars and can't quite deal with it.
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Dec 20, 2019 13:57
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Onmi posted:Rebels had one of my favourite fights, even if the context of the fight was silly (And I've only seen a clip) in Maul vs Obi-Wan on Tattooine. Because it's a very short fight, and it reminds me of a samurai quickdraw fight, there's very few moves and movements and it ends in a single blow. The context was very bad but it was salvaging Darth Maul from Clone Wars which was salvaging Darth Maul from the PT, which is a non-character. And yeah that's why it's such a good fight. There's something for everyone: The little details of Obi-Wan changing stances for Star Wars uber nerds, the in-universe context that Obi-Wan had far, far, far more battle experience than Maul and thus had no reason not to finish that battle in a single blow, and the meta direction where the fight is essentially an Akira Kurosawa samurai duel, and it does that perfectly. The Obi-Wan impersonation is fantastic. The more I think about it, the more I think that scene is really the only possible good send-off to Darth Maul, a character that was a joke from the start, down to Peter Serafinowicz's VA being both a bad casting choice while simultaneously being criminally underused. Onmi posted:I don't get this argument, like... if people are arguing, legitimately "Why you so mad, it's a story about space wizards meant for children" Like... okay, isn't that defense basically saying "I consume poo poo, this isn't good, because it's made for children and thus has no standard of quality, and I like it, therefore I like poo poo. Like even in this thread you see "Oh it's schlock." Do you... particularly like schlock? I think people use schlock instead of 'trash' because it sounds better to say "It's schlock I enjoy" rather than "It's trash I enjoy" the former just sounds better. The stupidest part of that non-argument to me is that "it was never deep" doesn't really say anything, about anything. A movie or story doesn't need to be "deep", however the hell someone defines it, to have other multiple gradients to its quality. Kurosawa's scenes can be impactful without a single word simply because he knows how to use movement in a frame. Even the exact same dialogue can change the feel of a movie simply by virtue by being portrayed by two different people. Hamlet's soliloquy is an entirely different experience whether you're watching Lawrence Olivier or Benedict Cumberbatch deliver it. There's no deep plot in The Raven, and Vincent Price did a lot of movies that can be considered "shlock", but putting the two together is a match made in heaven. The original movie had some stellar performances by Peter Cushing and Alec Guinness, a lot of actor input, and an editing overhaul. It was a theme park, yes, but it was one hell of a ride. Not all movies that are style-over-substance are created equal, which is why Mad Max: Fury Road, the longest car chase movie, and John Wick have been well received after a lot of action movies drawing criticism.
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Dec 20, 2019 14:02
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Captain Jesus posted:Please elaborate what definition of schlock Star Wars fulfils and why you think it does , especially the OT. You don't have to of course, but it would make your posts look more like actual opinions instead of raving of a lunatic who just discovered Star Wars and can't quite deal with it. Schlock is when a film does not exhibit cleverness in any notable fashion, but is entertaining and gets you excited and interested. Schlock is dumb fun.
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Dec 20, 2019 14:06
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