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If more authors/canon had led into the idea that Angron is not only fundamentally a good guy, but a good guy who knows that were he not mutilated by his home, and by extension of inaction, the Emperor, he'd have lopped the fucker's head off, I'd probably be a lot more into the World Eaters. But they're not, he's not, and instead we get Blood Hat upgrades for the Bloodsword Veteran Battlebloods in the finest of Matt Ward writing, so gently caress 'em.
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Dec 20, 2019 09:41
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hopterque posted:I don't know that he degenerated that much. The first thing he did after being reunited with his legion was kill all of his company captains except Kharn in cold blood. There's references in Betrayer to him standing around and drooling, and barely being able to form coherent sentences. He was definitely and clearly worse off than he had been right after recovery-- and the initial examinations of him demonstrated that the Nails were slowly killing him.
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Dec 20, 2019 12:19
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While I think the Angron passage is pretty good, I think Bobby G's comeback is also brutal: "You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper."
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Dec 20, 2019 18:19
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If only the primarchs had stopped dunking on each other, maybe half of em wouldn't have heresy'd
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Dec 20, 2019 18:23
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Epic Rap Battles Of Heresy
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Dec 20, 2019 19:43
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Improbable Lobster posted:If only the primarchs had stopped dunking on each other, maybe half of em wouldn't have heresy'd
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Dec 20, 2019 20:01
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Pyrolocutus posted:While I think the Angron passage is pretty good, I think Bobby G's comeback is also brutal: Real easy to talk poo poo when you're Dad's favorite.
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Dec 20, 2019 20:12
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In truth it's rich to hear any Space Marine, much less a Primarch, complain about how restricted they are. They're waited on hand and foot and have virtually unlimited authority, and are basically treated as ubermensch, while the rest of humanity largely scrapes by in abject poverty and impotence. And that's before considering that the rebels immediately threw any principles into the fire and went full chaotic evil on Day 1 of the heresy. I've liked reading the Horus Heresy books but every time an author tries to justify the rebels it's just totally eyerolling.
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Dec 20, 2019 20:42
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Relevant Tangent posted:Real easy to talk poo poo when you're Dad's favorite. That was Horus though.
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Dec 20, 2019 21:23
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Kaal posted:In truth it's rich to hear any Space Marine, much less a Primarch, complain about how restricted they are. They're waited on hand and foot and have virtually unlimited authority, and are basically treated as ubermensch, while the rest of humanity largely scrapes by in abject poverty and impotence. And that's before considering that the rebels immediately threw any principles into the fire and went full chaotic evil on Day 1 of the heresy. I've liked reading the Horus Heresy books but every time an author tries to justify the rebels it's just totally eyerolling. All of the Primarch's reasons for turning traitor are petty and/or egomaniacal, but I think the HH books that people generally talk about in this thread do a very good job of showing why their chapters went along with them like they did. Also during The Great Crusade it seems like humanity generally didn't have to scrape by in abject poverty, at least not on "established" Imperial worlds. Although I guess Fenris was still intentionally kept a hellhole. I dunno, Prospero seemed nice.
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Dec 20, 2019 21:27
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Telsa Cola posted:That was Horus though. Warmaster was a title of derision. Bob was going to win the peace and be the Greatest Administrator while Horus got locked up in the Primarch Apartments.
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Dec 20, 2019 22:25
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Relevant Tangent posted:Warmaster was a title of derision. Bob was going to win the peace and be the Greatest Administrator while Horus got locked up in the Primarch Apartments. There is way better evidence for other Primarchs, like Fulgrim or Dorn or Sangunius, being favored over Roboute.
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Dec 20, 2019 23:10
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Shockeh posted:If more authors/canon had led into the idea that Angron is not only fundamentally a good guy, but a good guy who knows that were he not mutilated by his home, and by extension of inaction, the Emperor, he'd have lopped the fucker's head off, I'd probably be a lot more into the World Eaters. i mean he sorta is. you can see that he is an honoroble man deep down as is kharne but the nails loving destroy their brains and take away all the inhibitions so they are basicaly just crazed monsters. hell, angron would have probably still broken with Big E even if he didnt have the nails because he sees past all the bullshit and just sees him as giant bully. the thing is the nails broke him hard and he is basicaly a dumb hyperactive rear end in a top hat. Pyrolocutus posted:While I think the Angron passage is pretty good, I think Bobby G's comeback is also brutal: yeah and the most interesting part is they are right.
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Dec 21, 2019 00:16
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Kaal posted:That sounds like a quite principled set of objections, but like most of the fallen primarchs it's pretty much impossible to square their later actions with their alleged motivations. I mean this is a guy who kills both civilians and fellow Space Marines for fun - before joining Chaos. The "wise Spartacus" Angron is neat, but he has nothing in common with the "nihilistic butcher" or the chaotic "blood for the blood god" poster-boy. He might complain about how military tithes amount to slavery, but that certainly doesn't justify making mountains out of conquered skulls or planting mind-control rage implants into his soldiers. Because he's not making excuses for himself... he's just speculating. Angron is fully aware of what kind of hypocrite he is. The emperor and the wider Imperium have made him into everything he hates so he decides to drown himself completely in the nails. The nails keep him in check as ironic as that might seem. He is a killing machine fueled by no ideology or philosophy or even the old desire for freedom, so therefore he has made himself a perfect tool for his master. Giving himself to the nails was his way of copping with being a betrayer to his fellow rebels. At that point he was besides himself with grief over being denied his death and his legion wanted to connect with him so in the nails went. Really i think that Angron wanted to just die and take his entire legion with him to spite the Emperium. If it wasn't for Lorgar he probably would eventually get what he wanted.
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Dec 21, 2019 00:26
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There's only so much you can do to justify dudes that cut off and wear other people's faces
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Dec 21, 2019 03:31
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What if it's a really nice face?
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Dec 21, 2019 03:40
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Everyone being all stoic and haughty as Curze paints a man with his own entrails. Imperial d e c o r u m
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Dec 21, 2019 04:54
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Improbable Lobster posted:There's only so much you can do to justify dudes that cut off and wear other people's faces but what if they’re billionaires?  really, Angron is a working-class hero
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Dec 21, 2019 06:27
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Fly Molo posted:but what if they’re billionaires? well, now comrade, now you art speakink my language
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Dec 21, 2019 07:29
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Honestly that whole convo is what made me like Guilliman more rather than captain boyscout he is some terrifying inversion of perturabo the ends don't just justify the means he builds entire courts and social systems to oppress his pocket empire. To create servitors at that scale requires insane tithes of bodies to be lobotomized, children stolen to be legionnaires and a truly massive under class to toil away in the hardly automated factories and ships. Guilliman is a monster who buries the horrors of his action's in layers of beurocracy.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:11
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I like Ferrus Manus a whole lot because he's very representative of what the Imperium actually is without the pretense of being benevolent conquerors or enlightened warrior-poets. He's brutal and furious and uses mass brutality to impose the emperor's will upon the galaxy. Humans are just another raw resource to consume and even space marines, pinnacle of humanity, are expendable and repeatedly mutilated and rebuilt until there's nothing left.
Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 18:36
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Angron's virtues being the most insightful and moral of his brothers, just completely obliterated by brain pokeys and turned into a blithering indiscriminate killer who can feel it happening and can do nothing about it as it gets worse. Still think about his convo Angron has with Lorgar where he talks about his confrontation with Russ and Lorgar's amusement at Russ getting his rear end kicked turns to sorrow when he tries to explain to Angron that he didn't beat Russ at all. Russ beat him real loving bad and left him and his legionaries alive out of pity. And Angron is so confused. "But, I won?" I think this was in Betrayer.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:33
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MariusLecter posted:Angron's virtues being the most insightful and moral of his brothers, just completely obliterated by brain pokeys and turned into a blithering indiscriminate killer who can feel it happening and can do nothing about it as it gets worse. I've always had in my headcannon that the two lost Primarchs were basically moral like Angron could have been and didn't dream of empire-building, and that's why the Emperor killed them. He can use monsters. He has no use for decent men.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:43
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VanSandman posted:I've always had in my headcannon that the two lost Primarchs were basically moral like Angron could have been and didn't dream of empire-building, and that's why the Emperor killed them. He can use monsters. He has no use for decent men.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:51
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The tyranid lost legion fan story is my fav for one of the lost legion theorys
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Dec 22, 2019 03:21
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Are the Black Plague novels any good?
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Dec 22, 2019 04:04
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Shockeh posted:I've never considered this, and I bloody love it. Well, one of them at least. Sanguinius for sure is afraid his wings mark him out as a mutated freak that needs to be purged and he'll end up with nothing but a empty plinth just like they did specifically because of that. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 04:13
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Waroduce posted:The tyranid lost legion fan story is my fav for one of the lost legion theorys What's this?
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Dec 22, 2019 04:48
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D-Pad posted:What's this? Every ripper is a very small and confused space marine
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Dec 22, 2019 04:57
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Waroduce posted:
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Dec 22, 2019 04:57
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Just drop the ffn Link? Would be easier to read.
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Dec 22, 2019 06:06
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Cat Army 
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Im out and i cant find it rn and i wont be in front of a laptop for like 2 days
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Dec 22, 2019 09:34
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That's cool. I have had the idea in my head that GW should start a new HH type series where one of the lost primarchs took a colonization fleet to a new galaxy and the series follows the crusade there. Gives an opportunity for new xenos and even a new flavor of chaos.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:30
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I like how both 40k and sigmar has been getting more weird chaos stuff that isn't directly worshipping one of the main 4, like the Corpse Grinders in necromunda and chaos in Warcry
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Dec 22, 2019 18:43
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D-Pad posted:That's cool. I have had the idea in my head that GW should start a new HH type series where one of the lost primarchs took a colonization fleet to a new galaxy and the series follows the crusade there. Gives an opportunity for new xenos and even a new flavor of chaos. Could be WH40K's Deep Space Nine or Voyager.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:49
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Improbable Lobster posted:I like how both 40k and sigmar has been getting more weird chaos stuff that isn't directly worshipping one of the main 4, like the Corpse Grinders in necromunda and chaos in Warcry Well, to be fair, they did have Malal way back when, and the Horned Rat in Fantasy (And possibly the Great Maw for Ogres? Not sure if that's chaos-aligned or not, Ogres just want to eat). I mean, offing Slaanish in Age of Sigmar seemed like the perfect time to explore more of the Chaos stuff, shame that they didn't.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:46
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I just bought a BL book written by a woman. The mass grave of former GW management behind GW's headquarters must be bigger then I thought.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:59
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Randalor posted:Well, to be fair, they did have Malal way back when, and the Horned Rat in Fantasy (And possibly the Great Maw for Ogres? Not sure if that's chaos-aligned or not, Ogres just want to eat). I mean, offing Slaanish in Age of Sigmar seemed like the perfect time to explore more of the Chaos stuff, shame that they didn't. Slaanesh is not dead. (Just trapped and likely to escape eventually.) And they are exploring more of the Chaos stuff, the Horned Rat is a full Chaos God now, and Undivided Chaos is being given more attention by multiple factions.
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Dec 22, 2019 22:20
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Klaus88 posted:I just bought a BL book written by a woman. If you are talking about Mark of Faith it's excellent. I need to pick up her other novel. So I am reading City of Light, the new Mephiston novel, and it is making me hate BL's limited edition release model even more. It takes place after Darkness in the Blood and references events from it even though it is only out as a limited edition. It's not a direct sequel, it is part of Hink's trilogy, but Mephiston becomes Primaris in DitB and it has some big consequences as a result which effect City of Light. D-Pad fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 22:55
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Klaus88 posted:I just bought a BL book written by a woman. Is it Dan Abnett's wife?
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Dec 22, 2019 23:19
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