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Drone posted:Halfway through the RLM Re:view I started to kinda get the suspicion that their thoughts were so negative about it purely because, at this point after so many years of panning new Star Trek/Star Wars media, people kindof expect them to pan. It's hard to imagine, in 2020, what a positive Re:view video looks like. It's really sad to check out other threads on SA where the video's been posted and see people go "wow, this show must really suck then, never gonna watch it now" based on Mike and Rich's word alone.
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Jan 28, 2020 08:42
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nine-gear crow posted:It's really sad to check out other threads on SA where the video's been posted and see people go "wow, this show must really suck then, never gonna watch it now" based on Mike and Rich's word alone. Yeeeeeeeah but isn't that kind the purpose of reviews? You find people's whose taste you generally agree with to give advice about which products to invest your time in? With the sheer saturation of media, I don't blame people for not bothering with something that gets a poo poo review from a trusted source. But I'd agree that having a single outlet for your recommendations is a terrible idea and limits your exposure to things you may actually enjoy. Same with criticism after the fact. If I come out of a film hating it, the first place I go is positive reviews to see what people got out of it. I may not be swayed, but that just confirms my instincts and is valuable in its own right. e: that said, if the review is the same length as the episode, well you may as well watch the episode and make your own drat mind up. I like long form stuff plenty, but that's retrospective and needs a bit to say, which is why this review falls flat to me. In conclusion, land of contrasts, etc... Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 08:50
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I know it's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but I can't be the only one annoyed at the use of holograms in modern scifi? No imagination is shown here, just repeat whatever sci-fi show has done before. How is watching something on a half-transparent screen, where your living room is visible through the screen, complete with 1920's phone style sound, preferable to a 1990's flat screen TV? So much bad writing in this first episode, but enough neat things (like the archives) to hold my attention.
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Jan 28, 2020 09:27
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Watching that review from rlm right now and I have questionssssssss. A lot of them. "Picard never was friends with Data, he tolerated him". JLP was never on-screen friends with anyone on the ship (he finally opened up a bit in the end of All good things and joined the poker night) besides some slight compassionate moments with Beverly and always took his affections elsewhere. Because he is a Starfleet officer who runs this ship. That cut to when Data's shuttle explodes and they cut to Picard being 'unaffected' by presumed Data's death and telling Geordi to go get some rest they got poo poo to do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I&t=228s. Picard is The Captain of Enterprise. He can cry, grieve, bang his head on a bulkhead all he wants but by 0800hrs (and not a second sooner or later) he will be on the bridge commanding the drat ship. And he has same high standards for anyone on his ship. This is who Picard is.Next cut to the reporter asking if Picard ever doubted in Data to which Picard laughs and says No, followed by a cut of 'Data doing questionable things' with a few appearances of Lore. Did these guys even watch ST TNG? Or the whole premise of shown episodes in which Data is trying to be human and resolve something on his own, or being controlled or is NOT DATA but Lore is alien to them? That's what the Data's arc about, about Data and his search of being more human via acting more human, making his own decisions and facing the consequences. Or being replaced by Lore and being believed by the team because they trust him and treat him as equal. Even that captain that 'tolerates him' trusts him.Laughing at their own lame joke about Picard and Data having sex with Borg Queen. 'Audience laughed'. Yeah, right. Re:view target audience of neckbeard fedoras are jumping in joy because of mention of 'intercourse' and how it is pivotal in Picard+BorgQueen+Data resulting in their 'daughter' Dahj. Riiiight. All that bullshit because we saw a borg cube for a brief moment and romulans have taken it. Should be because sex in 'First Contact'.JJTrek red substance and Romulus' sun going nova. And trying to explain what really happened in ST:P with cuts between JJTrek and Inner Light for 'filling the holes'. We still not have any explanation besides JJTrek but cmon guys you call yourselves trekkies, go loving watch the 2009 movie or read memory alpha, not just 'oh I remember spock doing something alone yada yada'. Or not. Or it should have destroyed the galaxy but only romulus and remus exploded. Ugh.And thats the first 12 minutes of the 're:view'. I'm honestly not going to waste more time on the people who pretend to know anything about trek but seemingly just skimmed through first links of googling star trek trivia. edited some phrasing and minor errors but without any  whatsoever.ps. All that I see about these guys is 'fairly known youtube channel' are being salty and butthurt because they are 'the trekkies' who were not invited to premiere, or have requested a pre-screening and were denied due to being 'too insignificant' and now trying to sink the ship. Erulisse fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 10:24
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MrData posted:I know it's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but I can't be the only one annoyed at the use of holograms in modern scifi? No imagination is shown here, just repeat whatever sci-fi show has done before. How is watching something on a half-transparent screen, where your living room is visible through the screen, complete with 1920's phone style sound, preferable to a 1990's flat screen TV? Yeah that bugs me too, especially since 90s Trek always used fully opaque holograms that are clearly superior.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:24
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One thing I did like about the RLM Re:view was their dig at Jay for not knowing poo poo about Star Trek.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:40
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AntherUslessPoster posted:All that I see about these guys is 'fairly known youtube channel' are being salty and butthurt because they are 'the trekkies' who were not invited to premiere, or have requested a pre-screening and were denied due to being 'too insignificant' and now trying to sink the ship. I seriously doubt that, if there's one thing they hate more than new Trek/Wars it's sycophantic fan culture and the they roast the jilted lover type of fan you described regularly. I agree with your point re: the Picard / Data relationship though. That was a very narrow reading of the character. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 10:41
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Lizard Combatant posted:I seriously doubt that, if there's one thing they hate more than new Trek/Wars it's sycophantic fan culture and the they roast the jilted lover type of fan you described regularly. I dont know, never watched a full episode of them but this is what they seemed as from first look. (ironic, right? haha)
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Jan 28, 2020 10:47
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AntherUslessPoster posted:I dont know, never watched a full episode of them but this is what they seemed as from first look. Hah point taken.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:49
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So have they already straight up said Picard doesn't take place in the jj alternate timeline where Romulus' sun still exploded? I feel like it casually hand-waves all the problems people seem to be having like why the federation are dicks now, why earth is seemingly a dystopia instead of a utopia, why does Picard love Data when before he just had moderate respect for him? At the end of the day I think i'm just able to pretend that is the case and turn off my nerd brain and just enjoy the show, I watched a review on youtube of the first episode and the dude said Data having 5 Queens was because "the future is female" and I'm just like wow dude take a deep breath.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:58
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Drone posted:Halfway through the RLM Re:view I started to kinda get the suspicion that their thoughts were so negative about it purely because, at this point after so many years of panning new Star Trek/Star Wars media, people kindof expect them to pan. It's hard to imagine, in 2020, what a positive Re:view video looks like. They just did a pretty positive re:view on Mandalorian, so it's not hard to imagine at all! I dunno, they are nitpicky nerds but I don't really think their complaints about Picard are all that out there. They are wrong about some things and use some bad faith clips WRT the Data stuff, but I don't think they are being performative or all that unfair to the show. It all depends on how dedicated you are to the old ideas of Star Trek, no matter how outdated they are, and they are obviously very dedicated to them, so of course they're going to pick apart all the things they disagree with. I mean at least it opens with Rich Evans saying it isn't bad, which is a far step above Discovery. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 10:58
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del: misread a post.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:08
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:So have they already straight up said Picard doesn't take place in the jj alternate timeline where Romulus' sun still exploded? I feel like it casually hand-waves all the problems people seem to be having like why the federation are dicks now, why earth is seemingly a dystopia instead of a utopia, why does Picard love Data when before he just had moderate respect for him? At the end of the day I think i'm just able to pretend that is the case and turn off my nerd brain and just enjoy the show, I watched a review on youtube of the first episode and the dude said Data having 5 Queens was because "the future is female" and I'm just like wow dude take a deep breath. Picard cared deeply for Data the same as as he grew to for all the members of his senior crew, Earth is still a utopia, and the Federation turned mildly dickish in foreign policy after suffering a huge very central attack which massively crippled Starfleet. Did you watch the terrible RLM review? Anyway, Picard takes place in the prime timeline, it's been stated.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:15
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Cojawfee posted:Discovery was mostly just "and they have this really cool technology that does this" without thinking anything of it. Then someone realizes "oh poo poo, that didn't exist in TOS and our show takes place right before that." The solution was always "Wow, turns out that technology really sucked rear end, and the federation never used it again." They probably decided to throw them into the future so they could finally do cool poo poo without having to constantly worry about "BUT KIRK NEVER HAD THAT!" I like your imagining of the writers' room like a scene from The Hangover. "We're not done with this scene yet, anyone got any peyote left?" "No but we can get more tomorrow" "Tomorrow...tomorrow that's it, we'll throw them into the future woo hoo crack open that other 40 pounder of vodka, we. are. done.!" One Nut Wonder posted:I would shoot waves and waves of cum if Q showed up. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 11:48
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Picard risked his life to save Data in First Contact. He makes it very clear how important Data is to him then and there.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:49
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Just off the top of my head, Picard invites Data to come check out the Dixon Hill program in "The Big Goodbye", and offers him advice on acting on the holodeck in "The Defector" and "Devil's Due". The idea that they weren't friends and only interacted as colleagues is ridiculous.
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Jan 28, 2020 12:29
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And of course the biggest and most blatant one: Data loving DIED specifically to save Picard’s life. Even if they weren’t friends prior to that (they were), it kind of changes the way you view a person if they straight up sacrifice their life for you. And Picard has had 20+ years to ruminate on this and wrestle with survivor’s guilt. So yeah no loving wonder he became obsessed with Data to the point where he’s showing up in his dreams on a nightly basis.
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Jan 28, 2020 13:20
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just another posted:How did the Federation know about the supernova long enough in advance to start building an evacuation fleet but not long enough for everything to be down to the wire? I usually don't care about EU stuff all that much but I tracked down the prelude comic book they made out of curiosity and it says that Starfleet spent four years helping evacuate planets before withdrawing from the mission. They only found out a few years in advance because the Romulans kept it a closely guarded secret.
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Jan 28, 2020 13:56
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Seemlar posted:I usually don't care about EU stuff all that much but I tracked down the prelude comic book they made out of curiosity and it says that Starfleet spent four years helping evacuate planets before withdrawing from the mission. This is a bad taste in worldbuilding but still something. Makes RLM's shitrant even less viable.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:05
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AntherUslessPoster posted:This is a bad taste in worldbuilding but still something. I don't think you should be expected to read a tie-in comic.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:35
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You aren't expected to. How long the Federation knew isn't actually important or relevant to the story Picard is telling, the tie in just has an answer if you do want to know.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:46
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Watching that review from rlm right now and I have questionssssssss. A lot of them. “Remember when he stabbed your staff psychiatrist in the elevator because he was having dreams?” is an extremely funny line.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:51
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Seemlar posted:You aren't expected to. How long the Federation knew isn't actually important or relevant to the story Picard is telling, the tie in just has an answer if you do want to know. Ok, but responding to AntherUslessPoster posted:Makes RLM's shitrant even less viable. I'd say it is if not knowing makes the inciting incident confusing or seemingly out of character. It's not a major hangup for me, but it is a warning sign of potential half baked intrigue, or people doing things out of character for plot's sake. We'll just have to see where it's going.
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Jan 28, 2020 14:56
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I’ve watched a handful of RLM reviews over the years and I’ve never understood why goons hold them in such high esteem. They aren’t funny or insightful, I feel like I’m missing a joke here.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:06
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Lizard Combatant posted:I don't think you should be expected to read a tie-in comic. It is not expected but we are talking about nitpicking ultrafans who know how many cats played Spot by episodes. For the storytelling it is okay. In other words - you are not expected to know how much this process takes IRL. They knew, they tried to help but because of the attack the plans were disrupted and ultimately scrapped, which led to Picard's disgust with SF. We know Picard, we know how he values life and that 900 million lives were at stake and we can see why it was so important for him. It just happened and was the cause. Nothing half-baked in my books.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:08
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marktheando posted:I’ve watched a handful of RLM reviews over the years and I’ve never understood why goons hold them in such high esteem. They aren’t funny or insightful, I feel like I’m missing a joke here. They used to be funny, and reasonably insightful in the sea of bad takes on youtube, but these days they're just... Old and angry.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:08
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I'm still holding out hope and waiting for a RLM redemption storyline. 
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Jan 28, 2020 15:27
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AntherUslessPoster posted:It is not expected but we are talking about nitpicking ultrafans who know how many cats played Spot by episodes. For the storytelling it is okay. I don't know how many cats played Spot. I also haven't read this comic, so I don't know how much more background it gives. But the Federation, an organisation of hundreds(?) of planets, scrapped all plans to render assistance to the Romulan evacuation after an admittedly major setback. A move that Picard calls out as a disgrace (implying something could still be done, however reduced in scale), and a major departure from what we've previously seen of the Federation. That's the info we get in the show. That's the inciting incident for Picard's starting point this season and (presumably) the wider plot. We're given an explanation as to why it was scrapped in the micro ("shipyard attack"/"allocation of resources to an old adversary") but not the macro, as to what caused this shift in Federation ideology that this is the response to a setback, or why they even needed convincing before the shipyard attack. That's what I think people are taking issue with, it's a major change that I suspect will never be addressed. So when you said it was addressed in the comic, I thought wow, that's really burying the lead. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 15:34
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I think RLM might reduce their criticism if the show doesn't end up being about superweapons and destroying the Federation (still worried that it might end up like that). I do wish that they'd give the fans just a little more world-building though - what is happening to Starfleet makes perfect sense in the context of the aftermath of the Dominion war and sadly, as that was all on a 90's show no one watched, it will never be mentioned.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:36
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RLM is still pretty good and funny when they aren't being pedantic Star Trek nerds, which, contrary to popular belief, only happens like two or three times a year.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:38
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Lizard Combatant posted:So when you said it was addressed in the comic, I thought wow, that's really burying the lead. This is unfortunately becoming the norm in sci-fi for the last decade or so. Specifically for Star Trek, a number of I would think very important facts about Star Trek 2009/JJ Trek were revealed only in the prequel comic, such as Nero's ship being enhanced with Borg technology (which is why it's big and spiky) and apparently him communing with V'Ger of all things to find out where Spock was in the Kelvin-verse, as well as the technology level disparity being explained as recovered scans from the Kelvin fast-tracking Federation tech to lense-flare levels. Again, all of this was in the prequel comic that I certainly did not read, but it sure seems important!
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Jan 28, 2020 15:43
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I will never read a comic from a sci-fi property, I made the mistake of reading Trek graphic novels as a kid and I won't subject myself to that again. They need to keep exposition in the confines of the drat show/movie.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:47
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Zutaten posted:This is unfortunately becoming the norm in sci-fi for the last decade or so. Specifically for Star Trek, a number of I would think very important facts about Star Trek 2009/JJ Trek were revealed only in the prequel comic, such as Nero's ship being enhanced with Borg technology (which is why it's big and spiky) and apparently him communing with V'Ger of all things to find out where Spock was in the Kelvin-verse, as well as the technology level disparity being explained as recovered scans from the Kelvin fast-tracking Federation tech to lense-flare levels. Is it? I'd argue none of that stuff matters for the story or setting personally. As much as I didn't care for that film, I'm now extremely thankful none of that made it in. I don't think I could have taken that in a cinema going experience.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:49
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Zutaten posted:Again, all of this was in the prequel comic that I certainly did not read, but it sure seems important! I think those are perfect examples of why tie ins aren't important actually. Like all the stuff in it like Data being resurrected and captain of the Enterprise, Nero preemptively killing V'Ger so the original timeline events could never happen, the 'explanations' for technology levels in the movie... none of that stuff matters in the slightest. The most charitable thing to say about it is that it's trivia for a Wikipedia page.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:50
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Thom12255 posted:I think RLM might reduce their criticism if the show doesn't end up being about superweapons and destroying the Federation (still worried that it might end up like that). I do wish that they'd give the fans just a little more world-building though I agree with this, and really, really hope it's not going that path. I'm hoping the Romulans are literally trying to reclaim Romulan drones, or something along those lines.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:53
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nine-gear crow posted:And of course the biggest and most blatant one: Data loving DIED specifically to save Picard’s life. Even if they weren’t friends prior to that (they were), it kind of changes the way you view a person if they straight up sacrifice their life for you. And Picard has had 20+ years to ruminate on this and wrestle with survivor’s guilt. So yeah no loving wonder he became obsessed with Data to the point where he’s showing up in his dreams on a nightly basis. This is an excellent point that I wanted to make but I was phone posting and had like 45 seconds earlier. gently caress red letter media.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:56
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MichiganCubbie posted:I agree with this, and really, really hope it's not going that path. I'm hoping the Romulans are literally trying to reclaim Romulan drones, or something along those lines. That could be interesting. Your empire massively depopulated and the Borg defanged, it would be appealing to try to "reclaim" some of those taken in order to flesh things out a bit.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:59
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Picard was willing to become Locutus again so Data could be freed.
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Jan 28, 2020 15:59
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Lizard Combatant posted:Is it? I'd argue none of that stuff matters for the story or setting personally. Seemlar posted:I think those are perfect examples of why tie ins aren't important actually. To be honest, I'm not really sure what matters and what doesn't matter in terms of back-story in huge properties like this and Star Wars. I'm definitely guilty of weighing wikipedia apocrypha a bit too heavily, but that's because my personal bias leans towards fun facts being important. For what it's worth, I personally thought the first episode of Picard was reasonably easy to follow, and I have the sneaking suspicion that armchair reviewers often miss the obvious because they're too busy writing down hot takes and not actually watching the episode. And since this is prestige television and not old school serialized self contained episodes, I assume we have a whole season of plot development ahead of us that will answer these questions. Or more likely deem them unimportant. Zutaten fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 16:00
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Is the setup that complicated? Starfleet put together a huge evacuation fleet, it got blown up with the rest of the shipyards, the Federation decided 'screw that, we're not putting together a second fleet just to save the Romulans, besides, we need to deal with these rogue synths', Romulus goes kaboom. Does the exact timeline of how long building an evacuation fleet took matter?
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Jan 28, 2020 16:02
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