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Boxman posted:this doesn’t feel awful to me. They don’t want to give them accents because they don’t want to map these random alien species onto our ethnicities. I don't have to imagine that. I was that rear end in a top hat. I went to the "lesser light" theater in my town on Dec. 20. The movie started at 2:00 PM. I watched the crawl line and my exact words were, "Oh, for gently caress's sake!" Out loud. Some of the ten other people in the theater chuckled a bit.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:02
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Yea I absolutely believe that they put Palpatine in the trailer because they knew full well how ridiculous it was that he was just gonna randomly show up in the third movie of the trilogy. And they wanted to prime the audience so that people didn't sit down in the theater and start the movie with a bad impression. When you're laughing at the opening crawl that's not a good way to start a Star Wars movie.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:06
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Speaking of the alien design in the ST: I hated that loving horse alien X-wing pilot and I was super happy when he blowed up
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Jan 29, 2020 19:12
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Basebf555 posted:Yea I absolutely believe that they put Palpatine in the trailer because they knew full well how ridiculous it was that he was just gonna randomly show up in the third movie of the trilogy. And they wanted to prime the audience so that people didn't sit down in the theater and start the movie with a bad impression. When you're laughing at the opening crawl that's not a good way to start a Star Wars movie. I figure it’s the other way around: Palpatine was originally a twist but, after they made him central to the ad campaign & it got a fairly positive response, they were like “gently caress it! Just put him in the first 10 seconds of the movie!”
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Jan 29, 2020 19:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I figure it’s the other way around: Palpatine was originally a twist but, after they made him central to the ad campaign & it got a fairly positive response, they were like “gently caress it! Just put him in the first 10 seconds of the movie!” It turns out everybody loves Sheev! What a great guy!
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Jan 29, 2020 19:20
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The Little Death posted:Right, but they don't use subtitles in the Expanse. They just looked at real creole languages and made a new one that is a mix of English and others, and have the actors speak in a very specific inflection that is impossible to place, asking with new words that you get from context. They even have characters code switching so that they speak different amongst reach other than they do to earthers or martians. You could be really creative and come up with all sorts of ways to indicate alieness in speech without going straight for "this dude is Thai, that dude is dutch" They don't use subtitles in Expanse (that show is loving amazing in general too) but I think their point is that if that consistency and variety of language was used in a big budget Disney flick it would either be subtitled or simplified anyway to what we already get. Mike N Eich posted:Speaking of the alien design in the ST: I hated that loving horse alien X-wing pilot and I was super happy when he blowed up Hilarious he gets blown up in Force Awakens but they hosed up and had him in the post-Starkiller battle scenes with the resistance also. So instead of him being a one off they had more around in the background in various media/Last Jedi so it could be passed off as a different person.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I figure it’s the other way around: Palpatine was originally a twist but, after they made him central to the ad campaign & it got a fairly positive response, they were like “gently caress it! Just put him in the first 10 seconds of the movie!” But if it was intended as a twist, why put his cackling laugh in the trailer at all? Doesn't that give it away?
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Jan 29, 2020 19:22
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Basebf555 posted:But if it was intended as a twist, why put his cackling laugh in the trailer at all? Doesn't that give it away? Wasn't the initial speculation that he was like a ghost or something that Rey would confront in the ruins of the Death Star. Like it could still be a pretty big part of the movie with him talking about how his actions are still haunting the current characters even without him being alive and becoming the main foe
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Jan 29, 2020 19:26
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Guy A. Person posted:Wasn't the initial speculation that he was like a ghost or something that Rey would confront in the ruins of the Death Star. Like it could still be a pretty big part of the movie with him talking about how his actions are still haunting the current characters even without him being alive and becoming the main foe It still undercuts what should've been a huge twist though. Why even let on that Palpatine will have any presence in the movie at all? Anyway these are rhetorical questions because you can't try to figure out the logic of how Disney makes these decisions, it's pointless.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:28
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I still can't believe Disney set out to have a new trilogy and didn't even have the most basic idea of what the story for that trilogy would be
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Jan 29, 2020 19:34
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Mike N Eich posted:I still can't believe Disney set out to have a new trilogy and didn't even have the most basic idea of what the story for that trilogy would be Well they did have an outline: TFA: The one where we get Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher back TLJ: The one where we get Mark Hamill back RoS: The one where we get Billy Dee back You expect more planning than that?
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Jan 29, 2020 19:36
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1) “back to basics”, hit fans’ nostalgic pleasure centers 2) ?? 3) profit
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Jan 29, 2020 19:40
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I suppose the Marvel Cinematic Universe made tons of decisions on the fly, frequently shifted gears (Look at how Thanos is regarded throughout the Avengers movies, they clearly changed what they were going to do with him several times) and were never punished for it, in fact they were rewarded. They made some of the most successful movies of all time. So if they mapped that kind of nimbleness onto Star Wars, that could make sense. But they are very different properties people are much more willing to forgive or overlook abrupt shifts in comic books because well, thats one of the things comic books are known for.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:52
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Palpatine fucks.
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Jan 29, 2020 20:08
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Disney's plans hosed up because of the mystery boxes. I mean, I agree that Star Wars as a property has probably less wiggle room than the sprawling convolutions of Marvel, but the ST set out from the beginning that these movies were supposed be one long set up and reveal, which is not what the original or even the PT were. They went in with no plan but specifically chose the writer/director known for set-ups without payoffs, and to have multiple writing teams play mad libs with it. Imagine if TFA had been like ANH or TPF, a self-contained story with leads ins for later, versus a bunch of question marks with JJ smirking at his own cleverness in three background.
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Jan 29, 2020 20:14
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In fact, I'm sure you could have made a decent set of films by setting out broad themes and getting 2 sets of writers to make 2 separate stories. One initial self contained adventure, no mysteries, and a 2 part followup and conclusion. The themes would have been insipid and the result of Disney corpologic, but at least they would have been less muddled and contradictory.
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Jan 29, 2020 20:19
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Mike N Eich posted:I suppose the Marvel Cinematic Universe made tons of decisions on the fly, frequently shifted gears (Look at how Thanos is regarded throughout the Avengers movies, they clearly changed what they were going to do with him several times) and were never punished for it, in fact they were rewarded. They made some of the most successful movies of all time. So if they mapped that kind of nimbleness onto Star Wars, that could make sense. They also spent like 10 years establishing the pattern that everything is only loosely a "sequel" and things change not only between the different main characters but even between the sequels in a main title. Like Winter Soldier is nothing like Captain America: The First Avenger, they're done in a different style and share like none of the main cast. Then you bounce back and forth between those and the Avengers where Cap doesn't even wear the same outfit and often doesn't act the same. So by the time you get to Infinity War/Endgame you've trained the audience to accept this style of filmmaking: even if they've only followed one or a few characters they are gonna show up for the crossover and expect a caricature of the dude they like, and that's fine cause it's more or less what they get in that person's main series. You can't do that in a 3 movie trilogy where this kind of tonal whiplash is just weird and jarring. It's not like they had half a dozen movies where Rey shows up in some spin-off wearing a different outfit and being only a rough outline of herself to set up for the final movie where she's some dude-she's-never-heard-of's granddaughter and just rolls with it. To put it another way, the people who were brave/insane enough to marathon the whole Marvel franchise before Endgame had to sit through like 30 hours of pain, they were probably delirious by the end of it. By contrast even if you marathoned every Star Wars movie the previous 2 Rey movies are still only separated by a few hours and are pretty straightforward so it's easy to remember what was going on and go "hey why did they change all that stuff"?
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Jan 29, 2020 20:29
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I think people are just used to the idea of comics having many different incarnations of the same characters over the years, and also many one-off "what if?" stories that were very up front about not being connected to any specific continuity. Star Wars has always been thought of as a single continuous story that's been unbroken since 1977, however untrue that may actually be.
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Jan 29, 2020 20:32
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Did Rey try to exile herself because she'd found out she was a Palpatine, or because she nearly murdered Kylo in cold blood? Or was it both? It almost seems like the Palpatine thing might have been a relief to her... "at least I finally know why I'm so angry and so violent- it's in my blood."
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Jan 29, 2020 20:42
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palps was never that angry or violent tho
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Jan 29, 2020 21:03
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Sheev is the only guy in the galaxy that is having a great time, all the time
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Jan 29, 2020 21:09
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Shaocaholica posted:palps was never that angry or violent tho Yeah but she probably doesn’t know that. Speaking of, what dies Rey know about Palpatine? What does the public at large know about Palpatine at this point in history? Telling Rey she’s Palpatine’s granddaughter seems likely to draw a similar response as telling a homeless 20 year old in 2019 that they’re Richard Nixon’s granddaughter. They’re going to have about the same frame of reference to process that information.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:12
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A space wizard (Luke) probably told her all about it.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:13
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How does Luke know Rey is the Emperor's granddaughter? He's been in exile for years. Were they keeping tabs on her since birth or something?
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Jan 29, 2020 21:20
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Basebf555 posted:I think people are just used to the idea of comics having many different incarnations of the same characters over the years, and also many one-off "what if?" stories that were very up front about not being connected to any specific continuity. Star Wars has always been thought of as a single continuous story that's been unbroken since 1977, however untrue that may actually be. That's probably also true although I'm skeptical most of the people seeing Endgame are comics fans (i guess if we're talking specifically about internet fans who are a different animal)
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Jan 29, 2020 21:24
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2house2fly posted:How does Luke know Rey is the Emperor's granddaughter? He's been in exile for years. Were they keeping tabs on her since birth or something? Like all potentially interesting things in the movie it's brought up only briefly, but Lando mentions how he and Luke had been working together the whole time to try to locate the Sith planet/etc., Lando was kind of his eyes and ears in the galaxy. I mean if Lando's both actively seeking this stuff out and he's still a well to do guy with lots of connections it's not out of hand that the two of them would work that out. Short answer, how does Luke know that Leia is his sister? He's told he has a sister and then just knows it's Leia immediately via the force.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:25
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Guy A. Person posted:That's probably also true although I'm skeptical most of the people seeing Endgame are comics fans (i guess if we're talking specifically about internet fans who are a different animal) I dunno I think even people who don't read comics are kinda generally aware that characters like Batman or Superman have been used and adapted by a whole range of different people and that you aren't supposed to worry too much about continuity between the different versions. Like, when people went to see The Dark Knight they didn't complain that the Joker is supposed to be dead because everyone understands that the Burton Batman films were their own separate thing. In Star Wars we've never had that.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:29
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Oh yeah that's true and a very good point!
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Jan 29, 2020 21:31
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Singular vision v. a series of teams of creators. SW can only really be coloured in while Marvel can sprawl.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:34
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Basebf555 posted:I dunno I think even people who don't read comics are kinda generally aware that characters like Batman or Superman have been used and adapted by a whole range of different people and that you aren't supposed to worry too much about continuity between the different versions. Like, when people went to see The Dark Knight they didn't complain that the Joker is supposed to be dead because everyone understands that the Burton Batman films were their own separate thing. In Star Wars we've never had that. yeah people were real understanding about the last superman and batman movie, definitely no one got mad over how those characters were depicted
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Jan 29, 2020 21:35
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Brother Entropy posted:yeah people were real understanding about the last superman and batman movie, definitely no one got mad over how those characters were depicted Well all fandoms have their limits
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Jan 29, 2020 21:38
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Conversation between Rey and Luke should have gone: Rey: Why didn't you tell me I was Palpatine's granddaughter? Luke: I didn't think it was important. Does that information offer you fresh insight about yourself or alter the stakes of anything you have going on right now, like, at all? Rey: Fair enough
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Jan 29, 2020 21:39
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Brother Entropy posted:yeah people were real understanding about the last superman and batman movie, definitely no one got mad over how those characters were depicted Screenplay: Chris Terrio
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Jan 29, 2020 21:48
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General Dog posted:Conversation between Rey and Luke should have gone: Does Luke even know Rey’s heritage when he’s alive? I assumed he got the info once he died and Yoda or whoever told him.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:57
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The Little Death posted:Disney's plans hosed up because of the mystery boxes. “Mystery Box” is a fake meme. Disney did have a basic plan: the failure of the New Republic, an OT protagonist dying in each film, Darth Plagueis as a secret villain, Evil Rey, Stormtrooper rebellion, Redemption arc, etc. All those things were there from the start, and remained all the way to the end. The issue is not the lack of a plan but, rather, micromanagement based on focus-groups and test screenings. Rey rated .5 higher on ‘likeability’ so let’s quickly re-edit the entire first film so that she’s the protagonist. This has a cascade effect: the rage-prone scuzzy woman who loves crime and terrified her parents into abandoning her is scrubbed of negative traits, so that she can be a better protagonist. Meanwhile, the stormtrooper rebellion is gradually whittled down to a single line of dialogue about offscreen events.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:58
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I wish every single movie franchise ever made followed the Mad Max style of continuity: Every single movie is unabashedly its own story and will pick and choose whatever it wants from the 'canon'
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Jan 29, 2020 22:03
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Brother Entropy posted:yeah people were real understanding about the last superman and batman movie, definitely no one got mad over how those characters were depicted It wasn't the continuity people were mad at though. It was that the spirit of the characters was wrong, which it was. Unless you're doing a deliberate "bad timeline" or whatever like Injustice people are going to be peeved when you ruin the point of Pa Kent for example.
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Jan 29, 2020 22:07
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Mike N Eich posted:I wish every single movie franchise ever made followed the Mad Max style of continuity: Every single movie is unabashedly its own story and will pick and choose whatever it wants from the 'canon' WB stumbled into this with The Dark Knight when they were talking about having various directors with a vision do focused flicks that could pick and choose whatever continuity stuff they wanted to do their own stories instead of having a canon shared movie universe but then they chickened out. But then they also contributed a bit to giving us Fury Road.
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Jan 29, 2020 22:09
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galagazombie posted:It wasn't the continuity people were mad at though. It was that the spirit of the characters was wrong, which it was. Unless you're doing a deliberate "bad timeline" or whatever like Injustice people are going to be peeved when you ruin the point of Pa Kent for example. The spirit of Pa Kent was fine and good, comic book movie essentialist nerds are just the absolute worst.
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Jan 29, 2020 22:15
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galagazombie posted:It wasn't the continuity people were mad at though. It was that the spirit of the characters was wrong, which it was. Unless you're doing a deliberate "bad timeline" or whatever like Injustice people are going to be peeved when you ruin the point of Pa Kent for example. the point of johnathan kent is whatever the person writing johnathan kent wants it to be
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Jan 29, 2020 22:18
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