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The thing our Sun player hated the most was ranged enemies, since they would always move away from melee range and he couldn't retaliate. That was, until we gave them permanent disadvantage. 
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Jan 29, 2020 18:06
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3 players. One is a Cragheart. The other just retired his Mindthief and will probably be playing Circles, but hasn't decided yet. I retired my Scoundrel (and did the noble thing of donating all my gold to the temple, which got us to reputation 4 so I could actually start at level 4 instead of 3! When I did that our Mindthief was able to augment a 4th card and retire so that was fun.
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Jan 29, 2020 18:49
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O yeah and I forgot to mention add augments that do those words like they're god drat candy. As the Sun your goal is (or well could, there are other builds) to make those numbers as absurdly high as possible. Like when you tell your fellow players what those numbers can get up to they should bark in mirth and disbelief and ask you to explain the math. That's when you know you're doing a real good job. Because no one should have what my peak was with ally buffs of something like shield 12 and retaliate 16. (I don't remember the numbers but it was something like that.) It's just crazy. Hi I'm functionally immune to damage and most things that dare to hit me in melee die in two of their own hits that aren't bosses.
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Jan 29, 2020 18:57
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Xiahou Dun posted:O yeah and I forgot to mention add augments that do those words like they're god drat candy. How did you get your Shield and Retaliation that high?!?
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Jan 29, 2020 19:25
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SalTheBard posted:3 players. One is a Cragheart. The other just retired his Mindthief and will probably be playing Circles, but hasn't decided yet. I retired my Scoundrel (and did the noble thing of donating all my gold to the temple, which got us to reputation 4 so I could actually start at level 4 instead of 3! When I did that our Mindthief was able to augment a 4th card and retire so that was fun.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:31
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.... Oh.... gently caress. Goddamn
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Jan 29, 2020 19:35
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SalTheBard posted:How did you get your Shield and Retaliation that high?!? Keep in mind that I stopped keeping track since once they both got in the teens it basically just turned into a math problem. They were something like that. If you take all the stuff and augment the hell out of it and have all the various armors and shields and stuff... It gets pretty sick. Then we had a Music Note just taking it from crazy to absolutely insane. Welcome to what Sun can do. The class is just off the chain.
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Jan 29, 2020 19:50
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dwarf74 posted:.... Yyyou can't donate more than once per visit. Sorry, man. Spoke to my group. We have decided that instead of undoing everything we did at end of session, we are just going to ignore the next however amount of checks we would've normally gotten until it evens out. Plus our Mindthief really wanted to retire. This was also a good learning experience to check the rules on stuff like that. It made sense to me that you could donate however much gold you wanted, but the thing I should know by now is that there is always a rule!
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Jan 29, 2020 20:05
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SalTheBard posted:Spoke to my group. We have decided that instead of undoing everything we did at end of session, we are just going to ignore the next however amount of checks we would've normally gotten until it evens out. Plus our Mindthief really wanted to retire. This was also a good learning experience to check the rules on stuff like that. It made sense to me that you could donate however much gold you wanted, but the thing I should know by now is that there is always a rule! Just account for it moving forward as best you can!
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Jan 29, 2020 20:31
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SalTheBard posted:Spoke to my group. We have decided that instead of undoing everything we did at end of session, we are just going to ignore the next however amount of checks we would've normally gotten until it evens out. Plus our Mindthief really wanted to retire. This was also a good learning experience to check the rules on stuff like that. It made sense to me that you could donate however much gold you wanted, but the thing I should know by now is that there is always a rule! It's probably worth noting that the restriction on donating is per PLAYER per visit, not per character, which is to stop you just genning infinite characters and abandoning them after donating once each, but in practice it's just something to be aware of, that if you donate with your retiree, you can't then donate again with your newbie until after you've been out on mission.
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Jan 29, 2020 22:12
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Impermanent posted:Anyone ever use Backup Ammunition? I find I rarely have a use for it. But I am kinda of melee oriented with my cragheart. Its the best card in the deck for a ranged cragheart
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Jan 29, 2020 23:35
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Our Mindthief decided on Brute, so we are going from a part with 2 reasonably fast characters (Scoundrel and Mindthief) to a party that I think will be middle of the road with most actions in Brute, Cragheart and Sun
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Jan 29, 2020 23:41
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SalTheBard posted:Our Mindthief decided on Brute, so we are going from a part with 2 reasonably fast characters (Scoundrel and Mindthief) to a party that I think will be middle of the road with most actions in Brute, Cragheart and Sun Cragheart should probably veer towards a ranged build. Sun can be built to be a Brute's good buddy. With Cragheart and Brute, you should probably focus more on damage and support than straight tanking. That party is lower on single target damage than most, and you'll feel the lack. And neither are particularly squishy. Don't be in a hurry to tank up until you enhance defensive stance. It's a great attack card, too, and your mobility is aces without it up. At low levels, bring the card that will add Light to the room for six rounds. It'll greatly enhance your ability to earn xp.
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Jan 30, 2020 00:03
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Eraflure posted:Ended up playing Angry Face the way you guys suggested, a straightforward but fun class overall. I haven't retired him yet but I decided to make a second Saw, which might be my favourite class overall. He has compelling and interactive ways to support your team thanks to his great crowd control and a few well-placed medkits. He can also deal a shitload of damage with the proper setup (other classes making him attack) and/or certain items (I laughed like a comic book villain when we unlocked the blinking cape). I played Eclipse and agree with the kill cards being amazing, but it has a serious problem with having no direct synergy with any other class (except triforce, kind of). The only thing it brings to the group is deleting one monster a turn, and if the rest of the group cant handle crowd control or tanking the things that are left, it just doesnt do enough fast enough. Compare this to things like saw/tank, or cthulhu/music note, or circles/two mini, or three spears/just about every class in the game depending on loadout. There are a lot of classes that have amazing synergies that give it the close to the same damage output as eclipse, but with a lot of flexible tools and crowd control on the side. I dont think its a bad class (its a strictly better scoundrel imo), but it still needs teammates that can handle the smaller swarm enemies by themselves, and if youre forced to tailor your team roles to break the game using the class, I dont see it being much different than the numerous other broken team comps that exist.
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Jan 30, 2020 00:14
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Sun: I'm level 5 now and leaning towards not going retaliate focused. There always seems to be a bunch of ranged monsters. But our group is Circles/Triforce/Tinker + me, it may just not work as well with this group.
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Jan 30, 2020 00:15
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Thank you! I love(d) Scoundrel so much. There were times were we thought we were screwed on a boss so I would Eagle Eye Google backstab and drop some serious damage. I will miss that but also happy to try something new
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Jan 30, 2020 00:16
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SalTheBard posted:Thank you! I love(d) Scoundrel so much. There were times were we thought we were screwed on a boss so I would Eagle Eye Google backstab and drop some serious damage. I will miss that but also happy to try something new
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Jan 30, 2020 00:50
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Its funny to me that, at prosperity 6, the iron helm and goggles are still some of the best helmets in the game.
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Jan 30, 2020 01:00
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Control Volume posted:Its funny to me that, at prosperity 6, the iron helm and goggles are still some of the best helmets in the game. I ran a Lightning Bolts without Iron Helm and had no regrets 
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Jan 30, 2020 17:05
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Picked up Gloomhaven last year and played a few times with a party of four (Brute, Cragheart, Tinkerer, Spellweaver who we opted to let reroll Scoundrel to make things easier for her). The last thing we did together as a group was scenario 8, but we did take on plenty of side things that opened up from various events we had. My partner and I decided to keep chugging away with our two characters, after watching/listening to a ton of D&D crap recently, the Tinkerer "Saffron" and Cragheart "Craig." Last night we both completed our secret goals after the same mission and retired our first dudes. I wasn't really expecting to feel quite so attached to my little Saffron and Craig duo, especially since we had just come off a 6 month break from playing, but yeah I am going to miss summoning my little battle buddies to help assist my big battle buddy. And my goggles!! And I just got a really sick item from that last mission that I didn't have a type of yet. Oh well, those are all back for sale, maybe I can finagle something in a few scenarios. Opening those new boxes though, boy that was a loving blast. I unlocked (and I haven't been following this thread for fear of spoilers so I'm not 100% on their monikers) Saw and my partner got Skulltentacles thing??? Oh man this is going to be exciting and I think they play off each other pretty well. We're supposed to meet up with our group this weekend, they are playing level 4 characters and our new guys are level 3 so hopefully this all works out well still. We may have time before this weekend to run a scenario or two, but we still need to sleeve cards, pick out cards for our levels 2 and 3, and do some shopping. Also, opening up the Town Records felt really good. I'm all primed to open more things, so hopefully one of our friends is close to completing their goal as well. I'm not looking forward to having to explain how turns work again, but it's nothing new; someone always forgot between sessions even when they were a week apart. Mostly I just want to be playing and progressing right now instead of putting up with work.
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Jan 30, 2020 18:26
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Saw and Cthulu sounds like a crazy combo
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Jan 30, 2020 19:26
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I don't understand what's so good about the iron helmet. Is it just because of the lack of good head options? Seems suuuuper niche, especially once your group size starts increasing.
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Jan 30, 2020 19:48
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't understand what's so good about the iron helmet. Is it just because of the lack of good head options? Seems suuuuper niche, especially once your group size starts increasing. It's super cheap, passive, and when it helps it reallllyyy helps. There's not really any other "tanky" helmet option, so if you're explicitly trying to fill the niche of the party tank and expect to be taking the vast majority of the hits (which isn't hard to game based on the way the focusing system works) you might see it work 2-3 times per scenario and depending on your level this could work out to a large amount of bonus shield (e.g. if an enemy is swinging for like 5 or 6 on their +1 or +2 action and crit, the helmet effectively shields 6 damage for just that single attack) There's definitely all around better helmets depending on what you're going for but if your main or secondary focus is tanking and/or you have more expensive items you're eyeballing for other slots, it's is a really cheap way to help you tank without worrying about being randomly sidelined by an unfortunately timed enemy crit
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Jan 30, 2020 19:56
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IMO people overvalue the helmet because of the spikiness of its damage reduction. Spikes are nice to avoid qualitatively but quantitatively other head slot items can do much more to prevent damage, like the goggles.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:02
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The helmet isn't the best all around but its definitely the best value buy for melee characters.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:17
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Impermanent posted:IMO people overvalue the helmet because of the spikiness of its damage reduction. Spikes are nice to avoid qualitatively but quantitatively other head slot items can do much more to prevent damage, like the goggles. There are definitely better helmets overall but if you're in a 4 player group and you're the Brute, giving the goggles to 2 of your ranged AOE capable guys is probably better and the helmet is cheap until you unlock something better or just want to save for other items
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Jan 30, 2020 20:20
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Guy A. Person posted:There are definitely better helmets overall but if you're in a 4 player group and you're the Brute, giving the goggles to 2 of your ranged AOE capable guys is probably better and the helmet is cheap until you unlock something better or just want to save for other items yea fair. Anecdotally I've seen some players fail to consider the statistical implications though versus similarly defensively oriented helmets.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:24
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Impermanent posted:IMO people overvalue the helmet because of the spikiness of its damage reduction. Spikes are nice to avoid qualitatively but quantitatively other head slot items can do much more to prevent damage, like the goggles. Ironically for a P1 item, Iron Helm gets better as you level up and monsters start doing more damage. At its heart, it reduces the number of positive monster draws from 7 to 6, and entirely eliminates what's probably the heaviest hit you can take. It lets you tank a hit or three with confidence, because the worst case scenario is a +2. Oh, and it means that you love it when monsters throw Bless into their deck - that's now a +0, too.b It's all about reliability, not flash. Sun So the metagame with Sun is 'how much damage can I shield away to nothing this round?' If I wade into a group of four monsters with Attack 5 and I know I have Shield 3 for the round, I can expect to take 8 damage, more or less. Without any curses in the deck, the minimum damage would be 2 if I am really lucky. If there's no crit drawn, my maximum exposure would be 13 damage. With a crit, my maximum exposure is 17 damage. Both 13 and 17 are really unlikely, mind you, but when you know the worst you can take from a single hit is 4 instead of 7, that's pretty reassuring. And see above where there's Blesses in the monster deck. Ick. The same goes when you're facing off against one nasty critter with an Attack 8 or whatever. Are you going to take 10-shield at worst, or are you potentially taking 16-shield? That's big.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:36
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Guy A. Person posted:It's super cheap, passive, and when it helps it reallllyyy helps. There's not really any other "tanky" helmet option, so if you're explicitly trying to fill the niche of the party tank and expect to be taking the vast majority of the hits (which isn't hard to game based on the way the focusing system works) you might see it work 2-3 times per scenario and depending on your level this could work out to a large amount of bonus shield (e.g. if an enemy is swinging for like 5 or 6 on their +1 or +2 action and crit, the helmet effectively shields 6 damage for just that single attack) This is a good way of putting it I think, thanks. I've never really played a tank so I never saw the appeal but if I'm intentionally taking a ton of attacks I can see why it could be useful. My favorite is still the Necklace of teeth though. Used to go absolutely bonkers with my mindthief in a three player group because of that.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:42
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In other news, Angry Face retired last night and unlocked Eclipse. He wasn't really thrilled with it - it's not his playstyle - so he went back and picked up Three Spears, which also nobody has tried yet.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:47
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dwarf74 posted:Sun I'm pretty sure you account for shield damage reduction before you multiply the damage. So an attack 8 with shield 3 would be 10 damage, Attack 5 with shield 3 would be 4 damage etc.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:13
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Dreylad posted:I'm pretty sure you account for shield damage reduction before you multiply the damage. So an attack 8 with shield 3 would be 10 damage, Attack 5 with shield 3 would be 4 damage etc. Nope; rulebook page 20, all defensive bonuses are applied after the modifier card.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:23
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NRVNQSR posted:Nope; rulebook page 20, all defensive bonuses are applied after the modifier card. Correct, otherwise this would make bless just awful against a lot of higher level enemies.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:28
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't understand what's so good about the iron helmet. Is it just because of the lack of good head options? Seems suuuuper niche, especially once your group size starts increasing. It's also cheap. At ten gold you can make use of it for basically pennies, all the way to +19 reputation where you can buy and sell for the same cost so if you run into a bless/advantage heavy scenario you've got a cheap tool to bring in. Moreover, it's an incredibly impactful item for its cost, providing constant upside in a variety of situations. You could spend the same amount on a Minor Healing Potion and save dramatically less HP, nevermind more expensive options.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:38
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The Iron Helmet looks a lot better if you put it in terms of preventing card loss rather than health loss.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:41
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Rosalie_A posted:Moreover, it's an incredibly impactful item for its cost, providing constant upside in a variety of situations. You could spend the same amount on a Minor Healing Potion and save dramatically less HP, nevermind more expensive options. Don't agree with this. I mean sure if you count the spikiness of it then yes for every one use you get out of it you will probably save yourself more than one use of a minor healing potion but I will probably get more use out of the potion overall. Although the helm will only outdo the potion on attacks of four or more in that case so it's not even guaranteed to be better. Plus the potion is also an incredibly cheap way to clear poison or a wound.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:43
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The Iron Helmet looks a lot better if you put it in terms of preventing card loss rather than health loss. Yeah this is another great point.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:47
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IcePhoenix posted:Don't agree with this. I mean sure if you count the spikiness of it then yes for every one use you get out of it you will probably save yourself more than one use of a minor healing potion but I will probably get more use out of the potion overall. Although the helm will only outdo the potion on attacks of four or more in that case so it's not even guaranteed to be better.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:51
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sirtommygunn posted:The helmet isn't the best all around but its definitely the best value buy for melee characters.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:52
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dwarf74 posted:The value is in the consistency. It entirely removes unexpected/unplanned spike damage and makes you effectively immune to enemy Bless actions. It removes risk from the enemy modifier deck. This has knock-on effects when planning out turns - even if you never get critted in a scenario, it matters for your ability to take chances. Ah that's where the big divide is. I take pretty much every chance given to me anyway 
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Jan 30, 2020 21:53
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