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The Bloop posted:She is bitter about other things and trying to make Picard feel guilty. Her words are designed to harm, not to reflect reality. It's not just that, to me this whole show so far is a 180 from established lore that I have real issues fitting it in with the rest of the prime universe. It's every single thing from the swearing, people bickering, hemming and hawing, complaining about having to work and about bad food, nonsense about resources, the pilot saying he's expensive, 20th century looking clothing, apartments looking like they do now but with a hologram added (holograms in general), pots and pans and plates and nicknacks everywhere, earbuds and sunglasses, lens flares and grimdark ships, everything is just so grating, cliche and non-unique to me. Some things I just like and associate with 24th century Starfleet, soft lighting, comfort, calm rational people that realise they don't need to work to live and a real sense of things being different in 400 years.
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Feb 12, 2020 09:28
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You might want to re-read this thread from page 64, mr Data.
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Feb 12, 2020 09:40
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AntherUslessPoster posted:You might want to re-read this thread from page 64, mr Data. I have been reading it from the start. Was not aware that things may only be mentioned once and then never again.
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Feb 12, 2020 09:42
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It's the replicated TV dinners for the apparently lower-class overworked shipyard workers that annoys me most.  And I do wish the new hero ship didn't look like a generic starter ship from a space videogame.But gently caress it, Star Trek's always had inconsistencies and we'll see if it's just a few we can sail past or if too many pile up. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 10:06
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MrData posted:I have been reading it from the start. Was not aware that things may only be mentioned once and then never again. Concerns from your post were all discussed thrice and literally took over 20 pages. If you
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Feb 12, 2020 10:30
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MrData posted:It's not just that, to me this whole show so far is a 180 from established lore that I have real issues fitting it in with the rest of the prime universe. It's every single thing from the swearing, people bickering, hemming and hawing, complaining about having to work and about bad food, nonsense about resources, the pilot saying he's expensive, 20th century looking clothing, apartments looking like they do now but with a hologram added (holograms in general), pots and pans and plates and nicknacks everywhere, earbuds and sunglasses, lens flares and grimdark ships, everything is just so grating, cliche and non-unique to me. Some things I just like and associate with 24th century Starfleet, soft lighting, comfort, calm rational people that realise they don't need to work to live and a real sense of things being different in 400 years. I love that now that we're out from under Rick Berman's thumb the best that Star Trek seems to be able to do is ape other properties that have gotten popular in the meantime whether or not it makes any sense to do that like out of the frying pan goddamn
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Feb 12, 2020 11:21
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MrData posted:grimdark ships What the gently caress is grimdark about the ship? Is it powered by orphans or something?
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Feb 12, 2020 12:10
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TLDR: Raffi is bitter because she had her chosen career derailed through no fault of her own, feels betrayed by the guy she views as responsible, and appears to have untreated paranoia and depression or something, which is exacerbated by drug use. Yet she wants for no necessity of life or creature comfort, has a room full of high end computers with hacking and data analysis tools, and is enough of a wine connoisseur to inquire about specific vintages of Picard’s wine bribe.
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Feb 12, 2020 12:23
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To be fair, it seems implied and likely that's a vintage specifically from his vineyard, which as a former friend of his she's likely familiar with. The Picard family vineyard I think can be likened to the Sisko restaurant; a family business (so to speak) that's considered to contribute to society, culture and quality of life, and more or less a living example of cultural heritage.
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Feb 12, 2020 12:28
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marktheando posted:What the gently caress is grimdark about the ship? Is it powered by orphans or something? It's dark and it apparently fires metal shards at people's shoulders, which is grim Grimdark
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Feb 12, 2020 12:36
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TheCenturion posted:TLDR: Raffi is bitter because she had her chosen career derailed through no fault of her own, feels betrayed by the guy she views as responsible, and appears to have untreated paranoia and depression or something, which is exacerbated by drug use. She literally talks about how lovely her place is after talking about how fancy Picard's is. They very clearly convey she is poor.
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Feb 12, 2020 13:14
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MrData posted:It's not just that, to me this whole show so far is a 180 from established lore that I have real issues fitting it in with the rest of the prime universe. It's every single thing from the swearing, people bickering, hemming and hawing, complaining about having to work and about bad food, nonsense about resources, the pilot saying he's expensive, 20th century looking clothing, apartments looking like they do now but with a hologram added (holograms in general), pots and pans and plates and nicknacks everywhere, earbuds and sunglasses, lens flares and grimdark ships, everything is just so grating, cliche and non-unique to me. Some things I just like and associate with 24th century Starfleet, soft lighting, comfort, calm rational people that realise they don't need to work to live and a real sense of things being different in 400 years. I don't mind lore violations in and of themselves, that's not all that important to me, but the thing is, it seems like the show just picks the most generic 'prestige tv' kind of framing everywhere. Maybe that'll change in the last seven episodes, but so far a ton of the runtime is pretty useless wheel-spinning that's there to tell us stuff we already know about Picard.
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Feb 12, 2020 14:36
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This show is operating at 63% efficiency smh
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Feb 12, 2020 14:41
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Panzeh posted:I don't mind lore violations in and of themselves, that's not all that important to me, but the thing is, it seems like the show just picks the most generic 'prestige tv' kind of framing everywhere. Maybe that'll change in the last seven episodes, but so far a ton of the runtime is pretty useless wheel-spinning that's there to tell us stuff we already know about Picard. Maybe it's meant to be for an audience not already familiar with the series, though I'd still wonder what the point is there.
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Feb 12, 2020 14:51
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marktheando posted:What the gently caress is grimdark about the ship? Is it powered by orphans or something? In the context of TVIV "grimdark" is a shibboleth for "I don't have a coherent criticism".
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Feb 12, 2020 14:59
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I don’t know what’s “grim dark” since it doesn’t look like Warhammer stuff at all. it looks like it came straight out of The Expanse, like a lot of stuff in this show and Disco. There’s no way the concept was any more elaborate than some guy pointing at an interior shot of the Rocinante and saying “let’s do that”.
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Feb 12, 2020 15:05
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One of the most shocking differences for me when seeing Generations for the first time was the -D with cinematic interior lighting rather than some overheard fluorescent lights. https://twitter.com/ArmyStrang/status/1227595156968366085 The Great Struggle zoux fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 15:08
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skasion posted:I don’t know what’s “grim dark” since it doesn’t look like Warhammer stuff at all. it looks like it came straight out of The Expanse, like a lot of stuff in this show and Disco. There’s no way the concept was any more elaborate than some guy pointing at an interior shot of the Rocinante and saying “let’s do that”. Except for the parts of the hull/bridge that come from Runabouts and the paint pattern that looks like it came from ST:Online.
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Feb 12, 2020 15:13
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As much as people call it grim dark, or say places like the shipyard or her desert trailer are hovels, they do look pretty nice. The replicator food (the oddest part by far) looks mediocre, but seems plentiful, and their workspace itself is immaculately clean. Her trailer is an imacutely clean nice little trailer with full (spotless) glass windows, a nice little garden, some little wooden knick knacks, and a great location in a scenic desert. The millenium falcon ship is also spotless and quite roomy, heck it looks cozier than the interiors on the discovery ship. I'm not sure if I should find a fault in the writing or set design for this contrast, to be honest I'm just taking it as future federation people being spoiled post-scarcity bums who can't take stock in how incredible the utopia they live in is. 
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Feb 12, 2020 15:29
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piratepilates posted:bums who can't take stock in how incredible the utopia they live in is. Imagine living in a world with (almost literally) no borders, a world where all the information the universe is in your pocket on a superfast computer that is thousands of times faster than what NASA launched their ships with, a world of hope and opportunity where you can become anyone or anything, do anything and be free but people still CHOOSE to live as self-loathing outcasts who prefer booze instead of thriving and being better every day. Oh wait...
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Feb 12, 2020 15:39
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"grim dark" just means "realistic things happen" it's not a description of lighting exactly
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Feb 12, 2020 15:40
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socialsecurity posted:She literally talks about how lovely her place is after talking about how fancy Picard's is. They very clearly convey she is poor. She's trying to hurt him any way she can, but at the same time, she knows full well that despite being booted out of Starfleet, she still has a literal universe of opportunities, which she refuses to take advantage of. She's pissed at herself. You'll note also that despite literally pulling a gun on him and bitching him out, she nevertheless immediately proceeds to help him as best she can, and volunteers to join on his drat fool crusade.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:25
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Yes as has been pointed out, the one thing she actually cried about was losing her security clearance, i.e. her career and career opportunities. The "crackpot conspiracy theorist living in a trailer in the desert" is a staple of film and TV, she's living off the grid.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:39
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There's kind of a theme in that episode of people trying to give Picard a certain impression that's blatantly contradicted when you actually look at their surroundings.zoux posted:Yes as has been pointed out, the one thing she actually cried about was losing her security clearance, i.e. her career and career opportunities. The "crackpot conspiracy theorist living in a trailer in the desert" is a staple of film and TV, she's living off the grid. In retrospect that seems absolutely what they're going for; she's in the middle of nowhere, smoking space weed and has a massive computer rig to pull up intel.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:50
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Anywhere on Earth doesn't really seem to be the middle of nowhere by 24th Century standards though.
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Feb 12, 2020 17:04
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Also let's not ding the show for doing a meta thing by shooting at the Vazquez Rocks, I thought that was a nice wink to Real Trek Heads
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Feb 12, 2020 17:06
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zoux posted:Also let's not ding the show for doing a meta thing by shooting at the Vazquez Rocks, I thought that was a nice wink to Real Trek Heads It's a funny bit that people can't stand not hating for some reason
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Feb 12, 2020 17:33
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I think it would be funnier if she were just pretending to be poor. At points it does seem like this show is written to have a bunch of low hanging fruit for the RLM guys to latch onto.
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Feb 12, 2020 17:41
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It reminds me that the original script for What You Leave Behind was originally going to end with a shot of Benny Russell on a soundstage holding the script for "Deep Space Nine" indicating that DS9 and indeed ST as a whole was in fact his imagination and creation. But they rejected it because they worried it would enrage fans. Can you imagine finding out that Star Trek is just a TV show and that you can't go live there? Or that even if you could it's possible to be poor there? Cojawfee posted:I think it would be funnier if she were just pretending to be poor. At points it does seem like this show is written to have a bunch of low hanging fruit for the RLM guys to latch onto. Oh no! Not bad faith youtube critics that determine my own opinions on things!`
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Feb 12, 2020 17:42
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The Bloop posted:It's a funny bit that people can't stand not hating for some reason lol who got mad at the vasquez rocks come on
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Feb 12, 2020 17:43
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zoux posted:It reminds me that the original script for What You Leave Behind was originally going to end with a shot of Benny Russell on a soundstage holding the script for "Deep Space Nine" indicating that DS9 and indeed ST as a whole was in fact his imagination and creation. But they rejected it because they worried it would enrage fans. IIRC their thought process was basically Benny Russell was introduced too late in the show to be an acceptable bookend.
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Feb 12, 2020 17:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC their thought process was basically Benny Russell was introduced too late in the show to be an acceptable bookend. I'm trolling a bit but sincerely, I think they probably just floated the idea in the writers room and laughed it off because there's no loving way Berman or Braga would've let that happen. But it always struck me as ironic because of course that's what DS9 and ST actually are: the brainchildren of 1960s sci fi writers. So fans would be getting mad (and they would definitely get mad) about being told something that's literally true.
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Feb 12, 2020 17:48
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zoux posted:I'm trolling a bit but sincerely, I think they probably just floated the idea in the writers room and laughed it off because there's no loving way Berman or Braga would've let that happen. But it always struck me as ironic because of course that's what DS9 and ST actually are: the brainchildren of 1960s sci fi writers. So fans would be getting mad (and they would definitely get mad) about being told something that's literally true. Honestly it probably would have gone over a bit stupid (though not like the ending they did show was anything to write home about- definitely nothing compared to All Good Things or even a mess that's fun to mock like Endgame) and would be one of the only things people talk about with DS9, since it's basically a St Elsewhere ending.
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Feb 12, 2020 17:57
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zoux posted:Oh no! Not bad faith youtube critics that determine my own opinions on things!` You probably shouldn't form your opinion based on their views.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Honestly it probably would have gone over a bit stupid (though not like the ending they did show was anything to write home about- definitely nothing compared to All Good Things or even a mess that's fun to mock like Endgame) and would be one of the only things people talk about with DS9, since it's basically a St Elsewhere ending. I think WYLB is really good though Cojawfee posted:You probably shouldn't form your opinion based on their views. That advice is better directed at their millions of fans who hang on their every utterance
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Feb 12, 2020 18:02
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:To your latter point, The Romulan Star Empire is a star empire. They have warp capable ships with transporters. They absolutely mounted their own colossal rescue effort, and it makes sense that they would have moved billions. I'm aware the Romulan Star Empire is a star empire, and I would expect them to mount a massive evacuation, but if it happened it's never been mentioned. All the focus is on the Federation not helping, as if they were the only ones with starships. Even in the movie with future Romulan, IIRC, he's mad at everyone else for not helping and saving his wife rather than the theoretical Romulan evacuation which might have had to choose to to save or leave. It all gives the weird impression that the Romulan empire is some passive entity which cannot act, only be acted on by others and I don't know if it's bad writing or dumb plot. E: What I mean is, it's so unaddressed that along with the "millions of lives!" number being so low it seems more like the writers just didn't think of this and wanted a "space Cuba" for the "space USA" to save/abandon. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 18:21
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I liked that Chabon's response to "why swearing" is the most logical answer, which was "obviously people still swear, we just couldn't show it on network TV in the 90's" It is, understandably, a bit jarring considering Fully Automated Space Communism, and especially when people are keeping a close eye on "is Star Trek going to dark/gritty?", but I think going "ow gently caress" if you stub your toe would be a reasonable reaction at any point in human history/future. e: I remember a lot of people giving the side-eye when Tilly goes "gently caress yeah" or whatever on Disco, but Whomst Among Us has never reacted the same way after figuring out a frustrating problem?
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Feb 12, 2020 18:36
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Is this show going to feature Angry Romulan in RSS Spikey disappearing back in time to split the realities and cause the movie? That would be a nice little tie in
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Feb 12, 2020 18:41
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Is this show going to feature Angry Romulan in RSS Spikey disappearing back in time to split the realities and cause the movie? That would be a nice little tie in That was over a decade before this show, both IRL and in-universe, so no.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:43
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MikeJF posted:It's the replicated TV dinners for the apparently lower-class overworked shipyard workers that annoys me most. Plastic people doing manual labor in the shipyard is every bit as dumb and nonsensical as old EMHs mining dilithium with pickaxes.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:55
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