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Masks make people feel better about having no control in the first large scale pandemic in a hundred years. At this point even if they didn't do poo poo, let people have some degree of control over something horrifying like this. It calmed my mom down a lot who is starting to panic, and that's good enough for me.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:46
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Son of Rodney posted:I bet it's however mostly a thing to do with testing and available data, almost no european country has been doing quarantine long enough for there to already be a big decrease in new cases. That's right. If you look at deaths, which is not biased by testing (and is biased to a lesser extent by other things), you can see that the US is increasing at the same rate as a bunch of other countries in the poo poo 
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Mar 29, 2020 21:46
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man
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Zugzwang posted:There's a whole bunch for sale on Etsy, I can tell you that. You can also make your own with an old t-shirt: Welp, there goes my shirt and the mask is about what you'd get with a scarf. I also have a ski mask I think I'll just use where I can without getting shot.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:47
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Doesn't the US tend to have multiples of those other (read: lesser) countries' populations? It's pretty good to check for doubling instead of raw numbers, yeah.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:48
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Masks worn by the public obviously help because they limit how much the infected spew their virus, but it sure as poo poo does not explain even a little bit the differing trajectories of different countries. The countries that are doing well in that dumbass chart are all countries that reformed their public health systems in response to SARS. They tested and contact-traced like crazy when the first cases sprouted up. That's the explanation. The misinformation here is appalling
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Mar 29, 2020 21:49
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dokmo posted:That's right. If you look at deaths, which is not biased by testing (and is biased to a lesser extent by other things), you can see that the US is increasing at the same rate as a bunch of other countries in the poo poo Incredibly depressing to see numbers like that  I hope this week you might start to see a flattening of the curve here in germany, most people have quarantined for about 2 weeks now.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:49
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Zugzwang posted:Not wearing masks. Don't be a loving idiot. No one is wearing any of that, and you touch your face more when you wear a mask, and masks don't protect you from catching poo poo. They can protect already infected people from infecting more, but only as much as not coughing without covering your mouth does, which is not very much. The whole mask angle is complete and utter bullshit.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:49
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Vegetable posted:What is this poo poo. China obviously falls under Masks, while Singapore does not. Stop posting fake and wrong information.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:51
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What if we instead encased everyone's hands in perfectly round spheres to avoid face touching. Or maybe we can just chop em off idk
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Mar 29, 2020 21:52
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Nier was on to something.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:53
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Mithaldu posted:For anyone wondering about whether food can get you covid-19: https://www.seriouseats.com/2020/03/food-safety-and-coronavirus-a-comprehensive-guide.html This person is (deliberately?) misinterpreting a lack of certainty as being proof that there's very little risk, which is not how any of this works. Please do not take this article as factual, it's even advertising "facts" that are directly contradicted by medical consensus in the published literature As an example, it states that the CDC reports no fecal-oral cases and treats that as meaning that the coronavirus is unlikely to transmit via the fecal-oral route. But there have been numerous journal articles published in the last 2 months stating the opposite: that the fecal-oral is a significant mode of transmission, possibly even the main one. This author mentions one of these articles in Gastroenterology and tries to sow doubt by saying that it's not peer reviewed (which by the way is false), while ignoring that there are also articles in Nature and the New England Journal of Medicine demonstrating this link. This is borderline insidious, representing a classic example of a person with a personal economic interest searching for data that supports their conclusion instead of forming a conclusion from the data.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:54
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Son of Rodney posted:Incredibly depressing to see numbers like that Restaurants et al. are getting hosed, but people are still being dumbasses and congregating in other places. And, shelter in place doesn't preclude letting in potentially infected outsiders. See: spring breakers in the US catching it on the beach in FL and then traveling back to California for one example.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:54
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Mithaldu posted:China is an outlier because the virus was being hidden by the government AND they were the first hit. And yes, singapore solved the issue mainly by being super-authoritarian and a city-state, but also with masks provided by the government: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/coronavirus-covid19-67-percent-households-collect-masks-12476686
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Mar 29, 2020 21:56
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Nurge posted:Don't be a loving idiot. No one is wearing any of that, and you touch your face more when you wear a mask, and masks don't protect you from catching poo poo. They can protect already infected people from infecting more, but only as much as not coughing without covering your mouth does, which is not very much. The whole mask angle is complete and utter bullshit. You're right though, you do need to practice good hygiene still. Wash your hands before taking the mask off, discard/disinfect/quarantine a mask until the virus inactivates, etc. Simply wearing a mask and still touching your face with unclean hands ain't gonna do much good.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:56
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Nurge posted:Don't be a loving idiot. No one is wearing any of that, and you touch your face more when you wear a mask, and masks don't protect you from catching poo poo. They can protect already infected people from infecting more, but only as much as not coughing without covering your mouth does, which is not very much. The whole mask angle is complete and utter bullshit. Essential workers have either nothing on their face, or a mask. I dunno, if I had a choice I'd take the mask
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Mar 29, 2020 21:56
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Zugzwang posted:I'm sorta baffled by the doublethink/doublespeak I see on this issue. Even if it were true that masks do not protect the user but do protect everyone else, one of the whole troubles with this virus is that people can spread it without knowing if they're sick. So isn't mask wearing obviously a good policy? Yes, it absolutely is, because infecting even one person less than you normally would can make a huge difference in the long term.
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Mar 29, 2020 21:57
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Zugzwang posted:I'm sorta baffled by the doublethink/doublespeak I see on this issue. Even if it were true that masks do not protect the user but do protect everyone else, one of the whole troubles with this virus is that people can spread it without knowing if they're sick. So isn't mask wearing obviously a good policy? No, because like I said the protection is the exact same as get this, not coughing on things without covering your mouth. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 29, 2020 21:57
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Nurge posted:No, because like I said the protection is the exact same as get this, not coughing on things without covering your mouth. Zugzwang fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 21:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrhux_CZGRE
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Mar 29, 2020 22:00
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Thanks for the warning.Vegetable posted:I live in Singapore you moron, and mask-wearing is by no means a widespread phenomenon here. The government distributed four masks to each household and shamed the gently caress out of everyone who wore the masks unnecessarily. How are you not probated for posting misinformation yet
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Mar 29, 2020 22:02
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Zugzwang posted:Yeah, I don't wear a seat belt because get this, I'm as safe as I would be if I didn't get in a car accident. Good god that is the dumbest thing I've read today, and that's something.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:02
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https://nextstrain.org/ncov Getting some variations there. 
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Mar 29, 2020 22:04
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Mithaldu posted:You could've said that in the first place instead of just raging. Thanks for the correction. The point about china however remains true and barring the small city state of Singapore, the bigger city and the two countries do have strong cultures of mask wearing. It'd be really good if you could gently caress off instead of posting "correlation = causation" bullshit here
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Mar 29, 2020 22:04
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Nurge posted:No, because like I said the protection is the exact same as get this, not coughing on things without covering your mouth.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:05
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Nurge posted:Good god that is the dumbest thing I've read today, and that's something. Not all of it necessarily, but viral load is a thing. You're safer if you come in contact with a small number of virions than a large number of them. Am I missing something here? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Mar 29, 2020 22:07
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I'm still laughing about that drunk Finnish guy calling social distancing "homo bullshit"
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Mar 29, 2020 22:08
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Mithaldu posted:Fair points, and especially the morale bit i hadn't seen before. Not sure if you posted the wrong one but there's no mention of heat or steam in that article. Heat definitely has been considered, but it's tricky because too high of a heat definitely does damage the mask (For example I've see papers stating that while 121°C sterilizers may be able to disinfect COVID, 132°C sterilizers irreparable damage them.) UV is another option, and a hospital in Nebraska has been experimenting with a protocol using it to disinfect a large number of masks at once. However the bigger issue is once you do find a way to actually reliably clean the drat things, you need to work it into the workflow of a hospital in crisis mode. Simple questions like who is going to collect the masks can be big headaches.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:08
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Nurge posted:Don't be a loving idiot. No one is wearing any of that, and you touch your face more when you wear a mask, and masks don't protect you from catching poo poo. They can protect already infected people from infecting more, but only as much as not coughing without covering your mouth does, which is not very much. The whole mask angle is complete and utter bullshit. Masks are far from being a sole, or even a dominant, reason why some countries have flattened their curves while others have not. But they can have a significant impact on reducing one's chances of catching this coronavirus. Stop spreading misinformation.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:10
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Rip joe diffie
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Mar 29, 2020 22:11
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Rime posted:https://nextstrain.org/ncov That's a neat tool
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Mar 29, 2020 22:14
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If I wear a mask but operate like I'm not, that seems like good additional risk mitigation, but I could be wrong.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:14
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the secret is 50 story soulless concrete apartments w/ relatively few homeless people, and few or no rural peeps not giving a poo poo about diseases, there's a societal agreement that diseases are Big Deals and then the government is unified in doing poo poo. so more density is actually paradoxically the key. this, and not ethnic homogeneity (spore a plural society) or any asian whatever, is the key if nyc was a city-state w/ some drat proper 50 story soulless concrete apartments they would've holed up a bit ago and would be doing fine
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Mar 29, 2020 22:17
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Vegetable posted:You haven't read a single piece of literature on why the successful countries are succeeding. It is as I mentioned: aggressive testing and contact-tracing. Masks are not the reason why. Nobody who has done an iota of research on this topic thinks masks has been making the difference. Now, given you appear to be read, possibly you can add some info on this then. What does explain the severe drop of all infectuous diseases in hong kong, including the complete cancellation of flu season?  Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Not sure if you posted the wrong one but there's no mention of heat or steam in that article. Heat definitely has been considered, but it's tricky because too high of a heat definitely does damage the mask (For example I've see papers stating that while 121°C sterilizers may be able to disinfect COVID, 132°C sterilizers irreparable damage them.) UV is another option, and a hospital in Nebraska has been experimenting with a protocol using it to disinfect a large number of masks at once. However the bigger issue is once you do find a way to actually reliably clean the drat things, you need to work it into the workflow of a hospital in crisis mode. Simple questions like who is going to collect the masks can be big headaches. Did the papers state that you need 121°C to disinfect covid or is that simply the lowest those things go?
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Mar 29, 2020 22:18
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bob dobbs is dead posted:the secret is 50 story soulless concrete apartments much like the transportation problem 
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Mar 29, 2020 22:19
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Vegetable posted:I live in Singapore you moron, and mask-wearing is by no means a widespread phenomenon here. The government distributed four masks to each household and shamed the gently caress out of everyone who wore the masks unnecessarily. How are you not probated for posting misinformation yet Seriously he just randomly jumps yo conclusions because he has no idea ehat he's talking about, then accuses other people of lying. He's either a troll or a lunatic idk which
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Mar 29, 2020 22:20
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ArmZ posted:much like the transportation problem los angeles is too rural to exist in its current form, we need to make some soulless 50 story concrete apartments
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Mar 29, 2020 22:20
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You don’t need 121 °C to kill the virus (unless you need it done fast). Depending on the exact protocol, it's like 160 °F, so like 70 °C, for 30 minutes. e: clarified something Zugzwang fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 22:22
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Mithaldu posted:You're right, that was the wrong link. Damned if i can remember what was tho ... It's more 121°C and 132°C are the standard temperatures hospital grade steam sterilisers run at. Like that's part of my point, often you have to work with what you've got. Like I saw something out of Stanford claiming you could use an oven at 70°C but what are you going to do, call up Electrolux and fill your space starved CPD department with ovens? Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 22:23
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bob dobbs is dead posted:los angeles is too rural to exist in its current form, we need to make some soulless 50 story concrete apartments all of socal should be razed and rebuilt
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Mar 29, 2020 22:23
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Zugzwang posted:No way do you need 121 °C to sterilize it. Depending on the exact protocol, it's like 150 °F, so like 60 °C, for 30 minutes. time and temp are both factors, but if throughput is a factor you want 121c
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Mar 29, 2020 22:24
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