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All my light switches and outlets look like this: My breaker box looks like this:  I'm installing a new overhead light in my hallway, added to an existing 1 light-2 switch setup, which will require running some new romex to the existing light switch (pictured above). While I'm in there, I planned on updating both the wall boxes for the light switches with these (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-20-cu-in-Blue-PVC-Old-Work-Electrical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box-B120R/202077323), and replacing the old light fixture box with one of these (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-18-cu-in-Round-Old-Work-Electrical-Ceiling-Box-B618RR/100404072). After reading what you guys are talking about and poking around YouTube, I'm also considering attempting to pull out the old wire that runs between the existing light fixture and the two switches. I don't know if I'd be successful, and I'm moderately concerned about attempting it, since if it all goes cockeyed, I can't easily call in an electrician to fix my mess. My overall question is how much of this should I attempt? It's worth putting in new old work boxes for the light switches, yes? And updating the old ceiling box? What about replacing all the relevant wire in the walls? Worth the effort, or a "leave it alone until you're ready to commit to something bigger?" I'd hate to try to pull the old wiring, find that it's not going to come out easily, decide leave it in place, and only have succeeded in stripping additional insulation off inside the walls, when I would have been better off just leaving it alone in the first place.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:25
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It aint gonna come out easily, that's for sure.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:06
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Are you planning on patching the plaster? The front tabs on the old work boxes will need something to grab onto and from your picture it doesn't look like there's enough on all 4 corners.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:40
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Electrical wires are stapled to the framing when installed so you won't be able to pull out the old stuff unless it was also an addition to the house and simply fished through the walls.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:57
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I’m having issues with Leviton GFCI/AFCI outlet I installed recently (to add AFCI/GFCI to two bedrooms) nuisance tripping when my PC is starting up certain video games. I’ve re-wired the circuit so it no longer covers two bedrooms, but before I go and buy another AFCI/GFCI outlet, is there a good resource for who makes a non-garbage AFCI outlet?
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Apr 24, 2020 05:42
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freezepops posted:I’m having issues with Leviton GFCI/AFCI outlet I installed recently (to add AFCI/GFCI to two bedrooms) nuisance tripping when my PC is starting up certain video games. I’ve re-wired the circuit so it no longer covers two bedrooms, but before I go and buy another AFCI/GFCI outlet, is there a good resource for who makes a non-garbage AFCI outlet? Leviton is non-garbage. I'd be more concerned that your power supply is leaking current into your ground conductor, causing the trip. Better question: who makes non-garbage AT power supplies?
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Apr 24, 2020 07:17
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If the issue was the power supply leaking current to ground the outlet should be tripping on GFCI protection, not AFCI protection, right? The issue also only occurs with loads that have a high GPU power draw fluctuation, steady high and steady low loads do not cause an issue. I can’t imagine a power supply fault that would cause ground current flow but only under certain conditions. I’ll double check it though and measure the ground current draw tonight.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:25
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Is the GFCI that's having problems on the same neutral as the other room you rewired?
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Apr 24, 2020 13:33
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It is a single AFCI/GFCI outlet, both rooms were downstream of the device. I didn’t rewire any of the circuits, I replaced an older three prong plug with the newer outlet.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:57
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Do you have a UPS you could run the computer on? it should even out the mains draw and it's nice to have if your power ever flickers or goes out.
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Apr 24, 2020 14:27
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I do not, but I have added it to my list of things to get. I’m also going to grab a USB wifi adapter as it looks like some people have had issues with ethernet PLC.
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Apr 24, 2020 14:41
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Oh, they stapled the wires to the studs? In the videos I watched, they just threaded them out of the walls without issue (mostly). I'll stick with upgrading the boxes, but leaving the existing wires in the walls. Thanks guys. I'll let you know if the lights work, or if I burn my house down. Whichever, really.
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Apr 24, 2020 15:14
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Nevets posted:Do you have a UPS you could run the computer on? it should even out the mains draw and it's nice to have if your power ever flickers or goes out. Consumer UPS are typically load switching/standby (i.e. the inverter is only running when you are on battery, otherwise you are directly on utility power just like normal). I can't recall seeing anything that isn't at least rack mount size that is a true "online" UPS (double conversion). They are also quite expensive.
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Apr 24, 2020 15:45
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freezepops posted:I’m having issues with Leviton GFCI/AFCI outlet I installed recently (to add AFCI/GFCI to two bedrooms) nuisance tripping when my PC is starting up certain video games. I’ve re-wired the circuit so it no longer covers two bedrooms, but before I go and buy another AFCI/GFCI outlet, is there a good resource for who makes a non-garbage AFCI outlet? You've got a neutral leak to ground somewhere on this circuit. It could be the wiring in the walls.
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Apr 24, 2020 15:47
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Motronic posted:Consumer UPS are typically load switching/standby (i.e. the inverter is only running when you are on battery, otherwise you are directly on utility power just like normal). I can't recall seeing anything that isn't at least rack mount size that is a true "online" UPS (double conversion). They are also quite expensive. Aaah, I had assumed it was on always but I guess it makes sense that the cheaper models wouldn't want to use their cheaper capacitors on a 100% duty cycle.
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Apr 24, 2020 16:07
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Nevets posted:Aaah, I had assumed it was on always but I guess it makes sense that the cheaper models wouldn't want to use their cheaper capacitors on a 100% duty cycle. Yeah - I find the consumer ones die at a rate largely proportional to the number of times it's switched to battery power. The circuitry is just hot garbage in those things, but when they're new-ish they do what the say on the tin (mostly) and give you time to shut down cleanly.
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Apr 24, 2020 16:44
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Oh, they stapled the wires to the studs? In the videos I watched, they just threaded them out of the walls without issue (mostly). Yes, they go through holes in the stud - horizontally. But when they run vertical they are nail-strapped to the stud. Just gut your hallway, dude. Its fun.
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Apr 24, 2020 20:07
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Am I correct in thinking an AL 2-2-2-4 service entry cable is adequate to feed a sub-panel off a 100 amp breaker in the main panel? Total run is maybe 15 feet at most, the sub and main panels share the same wall on different floors, no conduit, from what I can the existing cable isn't even stapled it just goes up the wall cavity and through a hole drilled in the sill plate. The sub-panel is a 125 amp panel but is currently fed with a 50 amp breaker over 6-6-6 AL.
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Apr 25, 2020 07:43
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Elem7 posted:Am I correct in thinking an AL 2-2-2-4 service entry cable is adequate to feed a sub-panel off a 100 amp breaker in the main panel? It's going to come down to how your AHJ reads 310.15(b)(7)(3) and whether it applies to sub-panels or only the whole dwelling unit. I'd need 90a overcurrent protection on that I think. You can use 2-2-4 aluminum to supply a main 100a panel because of the 83% rule, which applies to service conductors and feeders supplying the entire load of a dwelling. You are going to be coming off of a breaker with this and would need to use the 75 degree chart, which puts #2 aluminum at 90a. 310.15(b)(7) for the 83% rule, and 310.15(B)(16) for allowed ampacities in NEC 2017. Are you ever going to use 100a at your sub-panel? No, just like you'll never use the max of the service in your main panel. If you can get by with a 90a breaker protecting the feed to the sub-panel I think that'd be most correct though.
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Apr 25, 2020 13:43
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Ferrule posted:Yes, they go through holes in the stud - horizontally. But when they run vertical they are nail-strapped to the stud. Just gut your hallway, dude. Its fun. Hallway today, house tomorrow? I'm strap my newborn to my back and get to work! (if I lived in a Nordic country and got a year's paternity leave I might actually be able to do that)
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Apr 25, 2020 23:35
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I finally figured out the lovely Levaton AFCI/GFCI issue. The AFCI function dislikes my ethernet power line carrier/PC combined load. Separately they are ok, combined they trip the outlet on AFCI. Which is rather annoying as I now get to decide if I try out various manufacturer's AFCI/GFCI outlets and see if someone makes an AFCI with logic that isn't garbage or run some cables through the walls. Ugh.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:01
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Would switching to a wifi mesh be an option? You can get systems for under $200.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:43
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freezepops posted:I finally figured out the lovely Levaton AFCI/GFCI issue. The AFCI function dislikes my ethernet power line carrier/PC combined load. Separately they are ok, combined they trip the outlet on AFCI. Which is rather annoying as I now get to decide if I try out various manufacturer's AFCI/GFCI outlets and see if someone makes an AFCI with logic that isn't garbage or run some cables through the walls. Ugh. Ohh Yeah, this is a known issue with PLC, unfortunately.
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Apr 26, 2020 16:29
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freezepops posted:I finally figured out the lovely Levaton AFCI/GFCI issue. The AFCI function dislikes my ethernet power line carrier/PC combined load. Separately they are ok, combined they trip the outlet on AFCI. Which is rather annoying as I now get to decide if I try out various manufacturer's AFCI/GFCI outlets and see if someone makes an AFCI with logic that isn't garbage or run some cables through the walls. Ugh. If your house is wired for cable look at MoCA. Tons better than powerline.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:43
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Sneezing too hard can trip an AFCI, so I'm not surprised the intended interference on the wire does it.
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Apr 26, 2020 17:54
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B-Nasty posted:Sneezing too hard can trip an AFCI, so I'm not surprised the intended interference on the wire does it. Does anyone have thoughts on putting an AFCI breaker into an ungrounded NM circuit? Only 2 original circuits remain in my house and they're 2 wire NM but because they meander through the house (they run all the lighting) replacing them would be a huge pain in the rear end.
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Apr 26, 2020 18:00
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Blindeye posted:Does anyone have thoughts on putting an AFCI breaker into an ungrounded NM circuit? Only 2 original circuits remain in my house and they're 2 wire NM but because they meander through the house (they run all the lighting) replacing them would be a huge pain in the rear end. Old, meandering circuits are typically the ones that AFCIs hate due to a random shared neutral or neutral-ground fault. You can pull the H/N off the existing breaker, remove all loads, and test ohm continuity (after checking for induced voltages) between H-N and N-G (panel ground.) If any of those register anything, you can be pretty sure an AF will complain.
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Apr 26, 2020 18:10
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This is a bit of a crossover from SH/SC but this is ultimately a "how do I not kill my family with electrons" question: We're moving to a larger apartment now that our kiddo is mobile and it's opening up a can of worms re: my computer. For reference, it's a compact mid-tower with a load wattage (per Outervision) of 430W. There is also a 27" monitor (~35W) and sometimes my work laptop (~65W), so let's say 600W potential continuous load accounting for PSU inefficiency. There are three main issues, all related to the fact that the only reasonable place for my desk to go is: 1. Adjacent to the thermostat 2: In an area that can't easily be sealed off with a baby gate 3. Not near an outlet I think I can solve problem 2 by putting the CPU on the floor and securing it to the side of the desk with furniture straps (floor stand recs welcome), and maybe using some mesh to keep curious little hands away from cables. Worst case I could mitigate/solve problems 1 and 2 by getting a Hades Canyon NUC that draws half the power and can sit on a corner of the desk. Power is the big one, though. We're renters so I can't just have an electrician run proper wiring. How can I safely run power ~10-12ft (across the floor) or ~25ft (up to the ceiling, across the room, and back down)? Assume I want to do it right and not pinch pennies. If the answer is "you can't" I will accept it, but can roleplay a goon in a well if that's too boring.
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May 5, 2020 18:04
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I mean those 3 factors make it seem like that's the least reasonable place for a work desk to go? Big caveat as I'm posting from the UK where the laws are different with that said if you cant alter the wiring I guess your only option is to run a surge protected gfci extension lead from the nearest convenient socket and through a surface wire channel to your desk space? You can get adhesive ones rather than drilling fixings into the wall. It's a bit of a lash up but if your options are limited it'll work. Either that or get hold of some of those rubber cable floor runs they use for events spaces. I knew a guy from school who kept his PC away from his kids by it by putting it inside one of those wire dog cages on the floor up against the wall.
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May 5, 2020 18:31
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Well, it's the most reasonable place besides all of the things that make it unreasonable  Speaking of, did I mention the floor cable run would be across the main entryway?My other option is the bedroom, but my wife is a light sleeper who goes to bed early, and I tend to work later at night so I can spend some time with our son after I come home and before he goes to bed. The more I think about this, the more I think I should get a laptop, put my desk in the bedroom, and accept working on a laptop at night. Just thought it was worth a Hail Mary on there being ONE WEIRD TRICK ELECTRICIANS DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW (but not because you will die in a fire). 
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May 5, 2020 21:51
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25’ at 5A is well within safe extension cord range, even for something as skimpy as 16ga wire. Just use wire clips to run it up and around outside of kiddo grabbing range. (And make sure the outlet it’s plugged into is behind a piece of furniture or something.)
corgski fucked around with this message at 00:56 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 22:05
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Current electrical code is an outlet within 6ft of any spot along the wall, so if you want to add an outlet closer to your desk with some Wiremold boxes & conduit you could ask your landlord about getting in an electrician or if your jurisdiction allows it diy. If your landlord is a dick you could also just do it and not tell him, with the Wiremold stuff you will just be putting screw-holes in the walls and not cutting big chunks of drywall so it's no more destructive than securing a bookcase or hanging a heavy picture, and you could remove all the stuff before you leave and patch the holes. You are technically altering the wiring though so it would probably violate your lease agreement.
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May 5, 2020 22:09
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kecske posted:I mean those 3 factors make it seem like that's the least reasonable place for a work desk to go?... This, and and the dog cage is just good thinking. There's no good solution here. No electrician will tell you that using an extension cord as a permanent solution is ok, and you shouldn't be doing any wiring on property that isn't yours. Edit: that said, Corgski is right that an extension cord supplying only the computer and hung up out of kid's reach would probably never be a problem, but it's not ideal or code compliant so kind of hard to sign off on. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 00:43
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Blackbeer posted:No electrician will tell you that using an extension cord as a permanent solution is ok, Once it's past the receptacle it's not a permanent solution unless you're doing something dumb like wiring it back into the wall. Ideally in a perfect world you wouldn't ever need extension cords but for a single PC it's not even remotely the end of the world. Just make sure you use appropriately sized cable instead of one of those cheap white ungrounded lamp cords. Also don't bury it under rugs or carpets for gently caress's sake. Use clips to run it safely along the wall. E: here's a list of the relevant NEC regulations on flexible cords. It's fine and code compliant to run a PC off of one. https://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/code-basics/article/20888058/flexible-cords-cables-and-fixture-wire Blackbeer posted:you shouldn't be doing any wiring on property that isn't yours. However, this absolutely is true if only because every renters insurance would refuse to pay out for a claim that was caused by a renter's DIY work. corgski fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 00:52
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Fine, by "reasonable" I meant "least problematic" by which I mean everywhere else was more problematic ("Honey, can we get rid of our dinner table so I have a place to build spreadsheets and play Rimworld?") But yeah I'll try to get them to add an outlet, if that's no good then I'll just live the nomad life.
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May 6, 2020 00:52
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corgski posted:Once it's past the receptacle it's not a permanent solution unless you're doing something dumb like wiring it back into the wall. Ideally in a perfect world you wouldn't ever need extension cords but for a single PC it's not even remotely the end of the world. Just make sure you use appropriately sized cable instead of one of those cheap white ungrounded lamp cords. Also don't bury it under rugs or carpets for gently caress's sake. Use clips to run it safely along the wall. Got my edit in on the previous post before your post and didn't mean a diss. An extension cord in this situation would violate (NEC 2017) 400.12(1) and (4). For those w/o a codebook, article 400 is "Flexible cords and flexible cables", 400.12 is "Uses Not Permitted". 400.12(1) says it can't be "as a substitue for the fixed wiring of a structure" and 400.12(4) says it can't be used "Where attached to building surfaces". edit: to reiterate, prob not going to be a problem but not something I'd sign off on edit2: that ecmweb link is referencing 2008 articles, but nothing other than the location in the book has changed i think. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 01:11
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That's fair. You're right that clips to secure it would technically be a violation, but most of the jobs I work have extension cords zip-tied up or tied to structural members and I'd laugh if we were told to pull all that down for an inspection. It's just a reality of working in older buildings.
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May 6, 2020 01:23
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All this talk has me thinking of something that will make y'all go  My recently purchased home has a "make your own fire" plug connected to Romex that runs along a wall and then goes into the wall to a switch by the door that Powers my outdoor light by the door, an outlet in the unattached garage, and a floodlight in the back of the garage... I discovered this by unplugging it and going around the house trying to figure out what stopped working.
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May 6, 2020 01:43
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I didn't realize we owned the same house.  Here the dining room is wired like that and was plugged into an ungrounded convenience outlet on a light fixture in the basement, the dishwasher was powered through a cheater plug in the kitchen into another ungrounded outlet and wired with bare thhn instead of an appliance cord and all the dedicated AC circuits are run with NM cable fished through abandoned heating ducts and the laundry chute before being stabled to the baseboard around the room.
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May 6, 2020 01:55
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Oh god see now I feel better about my garage plug thanks. It'll get fixed but it hasn't burnt the house down in 20-30 years based on what I'm seeing... I just won't be running any power tools off that outlet. There's a second outlet that's buried cable from an addition and to the garage. The garage door opener goes from the door to the basement under the addition out the wall through like 14ga nm wire then I to the garage spliced into the 20 ga or whatever stranded garage wire and up to the garage door opener... Woulda been cheaper to get another clicker... tater_salad fucked around with this message at 02:38 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 02:33
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