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I'm on the Penguin release of ISoLT Vol. 2, where Marcel meets the author Bergotte and has his mental image of him shattered. He had the author built up in his mind as a sagely, bearded old man and in reality he was quite young with a black goatee and kind of tubby, and Marcel spends a good deal of time reconciling that with himself. It mirrors an earlier scene in which he attends a play starring the actress La Berma, who he has built up as someone whose every performance is a transcendent tap into the highest realms of raw poetry in motion, but sees the play and finds himself completely unmoved by it. In contrast to Bergotte, who he eventually grows to appreciate in spite of his incongruity with his expectations, he tries repeatedly to revise his experience with La Berma based on the testimony of others who claimed the play really was an exceptional one by convincing himself that actually, it was good, and he just either wasn't able to appreciate it properly or didn't have a proper frame of reference to see how she was really reaching back through time to channel the greatest of the Greek tragedists with every sweep of the hand. I'm not super clear on the time frame that this one takes place in - I think Marcel is supposed to be about 17-20, but has an emotional immaturity. It's difficult for me to parse out how much of it is really that or how much of it is due to the culture, since so much of the intricacies of late 19th century French aristocratic social navigation are lost on me.
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May 2, 2020 23:40
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I’m working from home and listening to free audiobooks from LibriVox and have decided to stop being a loving child and read (well, listen to) literature. Should I just use some normal list of greatest literary classics and go down it? Or is there some goon approved reading list of public domain stuff floating around? Also most literature lists seem to focus on novels, but are there any great classic history books and things like that?
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May 3, 2020 01:00
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Heath posted:It's difficult for me to parse out how much of it is really that or how much of it is due to the culture, since so much of the intricacies of late 19th century French aristocratic social navigation are lost on me. I know what you mean but the narrator is pointedly not moving in aristocratic circles until he meets Saint-Loup. It's going to become a really important distinction in later novels with the eventual twilight of the Guermantes' circle and the rise of bourgeois salons.
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May 3, 2020 01:06
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Getsuya posted:I’m working from home and listening to free audiobooks from LibriVox and have decided to stop being a loving child and read (well, listen to) literature. You shouldn't listen to great novels(especially not while doing something else), you should read them.
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May 3, 2020 01:06
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A human heart posted:You shouldn't listen to great novels(especially not while doing something else), you should read them. Aww man don’t gatekeep me. I promise to pay close attention and my job is basically mindless data entry at the moment.
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May 3, 2020 01:12
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you should almost certainly not just work thru a list of classics because thats bound to have a load of things that are boring or poo poo but notable in some way. what interests you? in terms of classic history books: histories by herodotus obvs & decline and fall by gibbon are 2 that are like canonical works of literature
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May 3, 2020 01:16
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lost in postation posted:I know what you mean but the narrator is pointedly not moving in aristocratic circles until he meets Saint-Loup. It's going to become a really important distinction in later novels with the eventual twilight of the Guermantes' circle and the rise of bourgeois salons. Yeah, the social castes are completely lost on me, especially because he speaks of the Swanns in such reverent tones that you would think everyone is immensely wealthy and prestigious (which is kind of the point, of course.) There are so many layers to society that were probably implicit among the audience of his day.
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May 3, 2020 01:29
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CestMoi posted:you should almost certainly not just work thru a list of classics because thats bound to have a load of things that are boring or poo poo but notable in some way. what interests you? Thanks for the history recommendations, I'll see if I can find those. As for things that interest me, I think I'm usually drawn to stories about families or groups rather than stories about individuals. I'm not interested in a single guy thinking about how much he loves a girl, or struggling with his inner demons, or thinking about the state of the world or things like that. I'd much rather read about groups or families and how their interactions with each other and the world outside shape them. I like stories where I can see how each new occurrence shapes everyone and changes the dynamic of the group. Even in genre fiction I usually get more out of stories about families or groups or teams rather than one hero's journey. I also like stories that take me in-depth into a type of life I'm not familiar with, so I really feel like I'm experiencing a whole new lifestyle through the characters. I really haven't read too much outside of genre fiction, but of the few bits of literature I've read I really enjoyed The Grapes of Wrath since it was a great story about a family, and Les Miserables (full disclosure I've only experienced it as a musical) because I felt like it was a story about the connections between the characters and how they were shaped by those connections. I'd love more stuff like either of those.
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May 3, 2020 01:36
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Jeremy irons did a drat good narration of Lolita
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May 3, 2020 01:37
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Getsuya posted:Thanks for the history recommendations, I'll see if I can find those. that is still a pretty wide net like how many of these did you read/like in your journey up through english classes east of eden 100 years of solitude middlesex the good earth pride and prejudice brothers karamazov also if mel recommends black water i will do him harm
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May 3, 2020 01:56
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None of those. I read To Kill a Mockingbird (liked), The Grapes of Wrath (loved), The Great Gatsby (hated) I do like the Pride and Prejudice BBC show! (Yes I realize that doesn’t count for anything) Uh... I like the Divine Comedy! Mostly for the horror elements sorry. You’re dealing with a literature newbie here.
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May 3, 2020 02:02
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What turned you off about Gatsby?
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May 3, 2020 02:07
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The dialogue didn’t feel like how real people communicated with each other and I couldn’t identify with any of the emotions of the characters. My wife, an English teacher, has suggested I might like it more as an adult but I’ve never felt a reason to revisit it.
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May 3, 2020 02:12
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Tree Goat posted:also if mel recommends black water i will do him harm Edit: Getsuya posted:As for things that interest me, I think I'm usually drawn to stories about families or groups rather than stories about individuals. I'm not interested in a single guy thinking about how much he loves a girl, or struggling with his inner demons, or thinking about the state of the world or things like that. I'd much rather read about groups or families and how their interactions with each other and the world outside shape them. I like stories where I can see how each new occurrence shapes everyone and changes the dynamic of the group. Even in genre fiction I usually get more out of stories about families or groups or teams rather than one hero's journey. Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 02:40 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 02:34
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100 Years of Solitude seems like it'd be up your alley and also owns
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May 3, 2020 03:50
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Heath posted:I'm on the Penguin release of ISoLT Vol. 2, where Marcel meets the author Bergotte and has his mental image of him shattered. He had the author built up in his mind as a sagely, bearded old man and in reality he was quite young with a black goatee and kind of tubby, and Marcel spends a good deal of time reconciling that with himself. It mirrors an earlier scene in which he attends a play starring the actress La Berma, who he has built up as someone whose every performance is a transcendent tap into the highest realms of raw poetry in motion, but sees the play and finds himself completely unmoved by it. In contrast to Bergotte, who he eventually grows to appreciate in spite of his incongruity with his expectations, he tries repeatedly to revise his experience with La Berma based on the testimony of others who claimed the play really was an exceptional one by convincing himself that actually, it was good, and he just either wasn't able to appreciate it properly or didn't have a proper frame of reference to see how she was really reaching back through time to channel the greatest of the Greek tragedists with every sweep of the hand. Proust is just so loving good. Keep posting about him
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May 3, 2020 04:12
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Getsuya posted:I’m working from home and listening to free audiobooks from LibriVox and have decided to stop being a loving child and read (well, listen to) literature. If you want to go after the white whale, someone earlier in the thread posted the celeb (including John Waters!) Moby Dick audiobook, which is free (the link looks scary) http://www.mobydickbigread.com/ Sir David Attenborough's chapter, naturally, beats the pants off of all the rest: http://www.mobydickbigread.com/chapter-105-does-the-whales-magnitude-diminish/
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May 3, 2020 04:12
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Getsuya posted:Aww man don’t gatekeep me. I promise to pay close attention and my job is basically mindless data entry at the moment. You won't get the same experience from listening to those books that you would from reading them.
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May 3, 2020 04:30
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True! But this is sort of a 'better than nothing' situation, since there's really no other way I'm ever going to have time to really focus on these books otherwise.
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May 3, 2020 04:38
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Don't listen to these nerds bro, audiobooks got me into literature for the same reason. Used to drive about 3 hours a day
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May 3, 2020 05:01
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Heath posted:I'm on the Penguin release of ISoLT Vol. 2, where Marcel meets the author Bergotte and has his mental image of him shattered. He had the author built up in his mind as a sagely, bearded old man and in reality he was quite young with a black goatee and kind of tubby, and Marcel spends a good deal of time reconciling that with himself. It mirrors an earlier scene in which he attends a play starring the actress La Berma, who he has built up as someone whose every performance is a transcendent tap into the highest realms of raw poetry in motion, but sees the play and finds himself completely unmoved by it. In contrast to Bergotte, who he eventually grows to appreciate in spite of his incongruity with his expectations, he tries repeatedly to revise his experience with La Berma based on the testimony of others who claimed the play really was an exceptional one by convincing himself that actually, it was good, and he just either wasn't able to appreciate it properly or didn't have a proper frame of reference to see how she was really reaching back through time to channel the greatest of the Greek tragedists with every sweep of the hand. Don't forget the disappointment of the church at Balbec. I think you'll find that is one of the most commonly recurring themes of the work. And his age at any point is definitely a common confusion. When I first read it I imagined him about 17-20 during volume 3.
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May 3, 2020 07:01
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Gilberte is 15 at the start, and he's a little bit older than she is, I think?
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May 3, 2020 07:20
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Getsuya posted:As for things that interest me, I think I'm usually drawn to stories about families or groups rather than stories about individuals. I'm not interested in a single guy thinking about how much he loves a girl, or struggling with his inner demons, or thinking about the state of the world or things like that. I'd much rather read about groups or families and how their interactions with each other and the world outside shape them. I like stories where I can see how each new occurrence shapes everyone and changes the dynamic of the group. Even in genre fiction I usually get more out of stories about families or groups or teams rather than one hero's journey. Read Natalia Ginzburg's Family Lexicon
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May 3, 2020 08:14
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Getsuya posted:None of those. In your case I'd pick a nice chunky victorian novel, possibly something like The Mill on the Floss.
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May 3, 2020 15:04
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Getsuya posted:I’m working from home and listening to free audiobooks from LibriVox and have decided to stop being a loving child and read (well, listen to) literature. The Iliad and the Odyssey, audiobooks are more authentic. Also, Colin Firth in a wet shirt is not nothing.
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May 3, 2020 17:01
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Thanks folks, looks like I have a pretty good playlist for now. I’ll report back with my experience with this stuff and see how that leads me to more suggestions.
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May 3, 2020 17:39
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Heath posted:Yeah, the social castes are completely lost on me, especially because he speaks of the Swanns in such reverent tones that you would think everyone is immensely wealthy and prestigious (which is kind of the point, of course.) There are so many layers to society that were probably implicit among the audience of his day. The naivety of the narrator makes it maybe a little more obscure than it really is, but the big categories to keep in mind are the Gentile bourgeois (the narrator and his family), the Jews (Swann and Bloch, who represent a kind of dichotomy between integration and pride in one's heritage), and the nobility (Guermantes, Saint-Loup, Charlus, etc.). The nobility still has a degree of prestige (especially in the eyes of a fairly impressionable teenager), but their star is rapidly fading after several decades of the Third Republic and an increasing sense that the Ancien Régime will never return.
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May 3, 2020 18:22
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Getsuya posted:Thanks folks, looks like I have a pretty good playlist for now. I’ll report back with my experience with this stuff and see how that leads me to more suggestions. Oh by the way, if you listen to Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, remember that from a historical perspective a lot of it is out of date, since it was written in 1776. One of the big ones is his perspective on the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire (many contemporary historians prefer the latter term) and it's status as the successor state/continuation of the Roman Empire. He also is writing as a 1770s dude, so he's not the best on other religions. The broad strokes will be fine, though, and it's still an important work. I read an abridged version as a kid and that got me into ancient history.
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May 4, 2020 02:31
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The North Tower posted:If you want to go after the white whale, someone earlier in the thread posted the celeb (including John Waters!) Moby Dick audiobook, which is free (the link looks scary) http://www.mobydickbigread.com/ How did he not draw Cetology? e. was at the hall named for him at Cambridge that has a giant fuckign whale skeleton hanging in it
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May 4, 2020 02:42
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Idaholy Roller posted:Talking about Mishima, what’s the best book about him? I assume there must be a few biographies out there. The Life and Death of Yukio Mishima by Henry Scott Stokes was surprisingly good i thought, a lot of interesting anecdotes and he even attended a bunch of tatenokai meetings theres a whole body of research in japanese of course but that hasnt been translated for the most part. ive been watching some of the movies mishima starred in along with akihiro miwa like kurotokage, theyre actually quite good
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May 4, 2020 11:44
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We've all had those nights where we get really drunk, make stupid decisions, and only wake up in the morning to realize what the gently caress we've done. Well, Saturday night I agreed to join an Infinite Jest book club. I even went ahead and ordered a copy so it's already in the mail. What have I done?
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May 4, 2020 15:41
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TrixRabbi posted:We've all had those nights where we get really drunk, make stupid decisions, and only wake up in the morning to realize what the gently caress we've done. Well, Saturday night I agreed to join an Infinite Jest book club. I even went ahead and ordered a copy so it's already in the mail. 
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May 4, 2020 15:58
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after the first chapter you are gonna have a question and you are gonna read the whole book for an answer to that question and I am telling you right now there is not an answer to that question
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May 4, 2020 16:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:after the first chapter you are gonna have a question and you are gonna read the whole book for an answer to that question and I am telling you right now there is not an answer to that question Yes there is.
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May 4, 2020 16:15
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and but so
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May 4, 2020 16:35
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w/r/t
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May 4, 2020 16:44
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mdemone posted:Yes there is. this is a lie it is absolutely never revealed why hal's mother, a die hard grammatical prescriptivist, misuses the word ambivalent
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May 4, 2020 18:45
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CestMoi posted:this is a lie it is absolutely never revealed why hal's mother, a die hard grammatical prescriptivist, misuses the word ambivalent or why otis lord, a "calculus phenom," would fundamentally misunderstand the mean value theorem"
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May 4, 2020 19:17
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Tree Goat posted:or why otis lord, a "calculus phenom," would fundamentally misunderstand the mean value theorem" Hal is the narrator in both of these parts, and we know that his memory is not perfect (despite what he may think) and some of his recollections are unreliable. Edit: I'm trying to be a good sport here, it's pretty clear from DFW's book on infinity that he had the same misunderstanding of central limit theorem
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May 4, 2020 19:20
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mdemone posted:Hal is the narrator in both of these parts, and we know that his memory is not perfect (despite what he may think) and some of his recollections are unreliable. oh was it the clt? i remembered it as him misunderstanding the mvt
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May 4, 2020 19:29
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