|
Improbable Lobster posted:Warhammer 40k Eversor Gear Rising Revengeance Wryyyyy
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 00:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
Foxtrot_13 posted:The announcement of Marvel and GW working together was almost a year ago and nothing has come from it yet so the working agreement has the smell of a backroom "we dun hosed up so take some of our money". I can't be sure but GW has been very sharp with their IP Biplane posted:My dream 40K game is a AAA first person shooter based on Necropolis, but it'd be more like Crysis than Call of Duty, due to the size of the hive city. Huge setpiece battles on the walls, you can have tanks because everything is so big, stealth mechanics probably. Can you see it?? In my mind it's glorious
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 01:14
|
|
|
Biplane posted:My dream 40K game is a AAA first person shooter based on Necropolis, but it'd be more like Crysis than Call of Duty, due to the size of the hive city. Huge setpiece battles on the walls, you can have tanks because everything is so big, stealth mechanics probably. Can you see it?? In my mind it's glorious same. id love to see CDPR or someone do some inquesitor rpg or maybe something in necromunda. also i wish more stuff that wasnt turnbased. like yeah when it works its amazing but i want something that isnt isometric and or turnbased. i know an fps is being made or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 02:35
|
|
|
The story trailer for the necromunda game looks cool
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
SardonicTyrant posted:X-com game where you play an Inquisitor warband. Instead of money you have requisition points, and you can spend more requisition than you have, but it makes the game harder because you're taking resources from other Imperial forces. More that you are calling in favors and using clout and there is only so much you can leverage for yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 03:39
|
|
|
Khizan posted:Main character should be a skitarii. Opens up a whole lot of cool possibilities about pretty much everything. Quake 4 except "the scene" is at the beginning of the game. And far more gruesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 04:11
|
|
|
I am sad that I'm just now learning Quake 4 had a single player campaign.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 04:25
|
|
|
Slashrat posted:Baneblade VR game. Entire game takes place inside a Baneblade as you move between crew stations to keep it trundling through the hellwar. Faster Than Light but with more bleak and tragic endings!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 08:49
|
|
|
I was about to add 'Rogue Trader open-world exploration game like a grimdark No Man's Sky' and that reminded me of something: Rogue Traders really seem like they don't fit in the WH40K universe. The overarching theme is 'everything is bloody, fanatical, oppressive, and you have entire species locked in perpetual war with no quarters', and then RTs add the caveat '... except these Very Special Guys®, who can go wherever they like, answer to no-one, have fantastic adventures, explore the wild frontiers, meet interesting xenos without necessarily killing them, and recruit interesting people from all walks of life!'. Normally the explanation is obvious: someone wanted to shoehorn into an existing setting a role for the players, so they have to make up an excuse why they aren't just living the same highly regimented life as 99.9% of humanity. But Rogue Trader was the first edition of 40K. Why did they make a game about freewheelin' adventures in space, and then filled the book with fluff about corpse emperors and legions of space marines and vast armies? I know 1st edition was more satiric and tongue-in-cheek than how the setting eventually developed, but the initial blurb was virtually unchanged and already promised 'to be a man in such time is to be one amongs untold billions, it is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable', and to follow that up with stories of space conquistadors boldly going where no man has gone before seems like it would strongly undermine the satire. Important disclaimer: I haven't actually read the 1st edition sourcebook, so this is all based on second-hand wikis and discussion. Let me know if some of the things I thought I learned are wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 09:30
|
|
|
I'm convinced that there actually aren't any rogue traders. They're all either in disguise Inquisitors or one of their hirelings. It's all just a cover story by the inquisition to swing their giant I-dick around without having to pull out a rosette.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 10:42
|
|
|
Presumably they exist for the same reason that privateers existed in reality. There are areas that you might want to have access to for information and goods, but it's far better to have a friendly "pirate" go "oh yeah we confiscated this loot from that bad guy crime ship there" than it is to admit you just needed to buy it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 11:18
|
|
|
I think originally it was a way to let people have free roaming adventures within a strict and rigid social setting. From a gameplay perspective it makes sense of you've got a dystopian and xenophobic society but want players to be able to do stuff like have team ups to use some cool new models. My understanding of first edition is that it had more of an RPG element to it and without the more richly developed lore we have now, space privateers is a pretty good way of justifying whatever army compositions or stories players might want to use. From a lore perspective I think they're just there now because they were such a part of that first edition. But I think they add a fun but of feudalistic chaos since that mirrors the lore of 'this was a useful thing for Emperor initially but now it's 10k years later and we never got rid of them so I guess they're here to stay.'
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 11:41
|
|
|
Yeah the rogue traders deal is that the emperor himself wrote and signed their writs and they all keep them preserved in stasis so if an authority comes along all like ‘we need to confiscate your ship’ they just pull out their well actually get out of jail free cards. In the ‘modern’ era rogue traders are large dynasties because the writ is broad and undefined so as long as they all say they are a descendant or X rogue trader and they can all point to a document that says so they are free to sail around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:15
|
|
|
It made a more sense before the Imperium was 110% xenophobic in the fluff. You'd have these space Marco Polos out discovering alien cultures and bringing their exotic goods back for ridiculous profit. Now everything alien is forbidden and stigmatized, so rogue traders are left as a weird vestigial element of the fluff. A rock whose supporting structure has eroded away.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:18
|
|
|
MrNemo posted:I think originally it was a way to let people have free roaming adventures within a strict and rigid social setting. From a gameplay perspective it makes sense of you've got a dystopian and xenophobic society but want players to be able to do stuff like have team ups to use some cool new models. My understanding of first edition is that it had more of an RPG element to it and without the more richly developed lore we have now, space privateers is a pretty good way of justifying whatever army compositions or stories players might want to use. Yeah, as I said, it makes total sense if the dystopia was there from the start and the RPG adventure had to fit in. But RTs were there from the start, so you would have expected the setting to be much more fragmented and fluid, so that they could have as much room for adventure as possible. I guess I am expecting some editorial backstory hinting that the game started out as a more military themed tabletop, but then a shift into a more RPG direction happened, and the Traders were invented to support it. I mean, if the game was conceived of as Rogue Trader from the start, why did it have a literal pile of Space Marines on the cover, engaged in a massive firefight? Why not, you know, a Rogue Trader with his team?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:25
|
|
|
It's a game about massive armies of genetically engineered super soldiers engaged in a never-ending hellwar for the very survival of humanity itself, and the merchant fleets that supply that war. Do your part and haul promethium FOR THE EMPEROR!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:32
|
|
|
Rogue Traders used to frequently travel with a contingent of space marines. I suspect that the initial thinking was that Rogue Traders would be the narrative device through which skirmishes arose as the players "discovered" new worlds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:34
|
|
|
Yeah it was pretty much that, but the silliness of abstracting it in the current version of things is fun. The setting has gone through a number of cycles of formalisation and relaxation at this point so things are what they are at any given moment as long as it sells mans.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 12:50
|
|
|
moths posted:You'd have these space Marco Polos out discovering alien cultures and bringing their exotic goods back for ridiculous profit. This is still a huge part of what RTs do in the modern fluff and whats makes some of them so rich.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 13:52
|
|
|
Doesn't current version of the Imperium get crazy mad at all xenos technology? I guess they could bring back consumables, resources, or art objects. It made more sense initially when the line was softer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 13:57
|
|
|
I mean that's the official line but it's a big universe and even the Inquisition is divided along radical/orthodox lines when it comes to using Xenos/Forbidden tech
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 14:02
|
|
|
xenotech is proscribed by the mechanicus and probably unavailable to your average imperial citizen but if you wanted to outfit your pdf with plasma guns that didn't explode (Tau) you'd probably get away with it
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 14:07
|
|
|
moths posted:Doesn't current version of the Imperium get crazy mad at all xenos technology?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 14:09
|
|
|
There's also the 'official' Imperium, and then what actually happens. How many Imperial Governors have hired Kroot/Orks to do their fighting, how many 'archeotech' items in Noble hands turn out to be Xenos without being Chaos corruption, etc. I like the idea that some worlds are functionally 'independent', but pay their tithes and offer up their Guard just so the Imperium will piss off, but otherwise are doing their own thing. It's a sprawling mess of Late-Roman Empire, you can't control what everyone is doing, so you settle for curbing the worst and occasionally you slamdunk someone just to prove a point to everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 14:11
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:I mean that's the official line but it's a big universe and even the Inquisition is divided along radical/orthodox lines when it comes to using Xenos/Forbidden tech And on top of that, the rogue traders are given their authority from sources even the Inquisition has to respect. The oldest Rogue Trader dynasties have a warrant of office signed by the Emperor himself, and even the new ones are signed by the the High Lords. Accordingly, taking down a rogue trader is a big loving deal. You've got to negotiate with the literal High Lords of Terra, and in the case of the warrants signed by the Emperor you may end up with the Ecclesiarchy involved(though they probably want to steal the warrant of office for themselves as a relic, despite it literally being against the will of the Emperor who gave it to the trader's family in perpetuity). It's a huge loving hassle and they'd need a really good reason to go to all that trouble. Basically as long as the trader don't gently caress around with Chaos there's just no reason to go after them. Easier and safer to let the gently caress around on the fringes and do their thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
Also, Rogue Traders, much like Inquisitors, in theory have a lot of latitude but there's only so far they can push it. Authority running up against sheer power works to an extent before the sheer power starts musing on whether it would be simpler just for an "accident" to occur. I think in the Shira Calpurnia books there's a situation where a Rogue Trader gets a considerable amount of grief from the Imperial Navy as they're traveling planetside, with the Navy basically "escorting" them all the way (with guns run out).
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 15:34
|
|
|
I guess that's conceivably where an alien artefact could come into a planetary governor's hands. Some Rogue Trader finds it, certifies it's non-chaos (after maybe his navigator looks at it) and then it becomes a "lost relic mankind's great expansion."
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 15:52
|
|
|
Rogue Traders are a lot more grimdark than the typical view we have of them and I actually think they make a lot of sense in the lore. The Imperium is mind boggingly huge and the frontiers are only under nominal control at best. RTs are not just merchants but small military fleets in their own right. It is a frequent occurrence that they find a new human world and conquer it all on their own and thus secure the trading rights. They are the explorator fleets of the Imperium fulfilling a similar role to the Mechanicus explorator fleets. They both fight and trade with xenos on the fringes and act as unofficial intelligence operatives for the Imperium. The Imperium is not monolithic and is as much pragmatic as it is rigid and there is a need for this type of thing. On top of all that they are basically space nobility as opposed to planet based nobility, something that would naturally arise in something like the Imperium anyway and the system is a good way to keep them loyal when they aren't under the thumb of a planetary governor. As others pointing out, they made a lot of sense in the crusade era and the oldest and most powerful dynasties received their warrants from the emperor. These days it is mainly the high lords that provide new ones, but sector governor's can actually give them warrants as well although I *think* those are only valid in that sector and it's border areas not the entire Imperium, for that it has to be a high lord granted one. It's a good way for the high lords to reward exceptional service and often an extremely high ranking naval officer gets a warrant if they make it to retirement since it makes more sense than giving them a planet after having spent their entire lives in space.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 15:58
|
|
|
D-Pad posted:Rogue Traders are a lot more grimdark than the typical view we have of them and I actually think they make a lot of sense in the lore. The Imperium is mind boggingly huge and the frontiers are only under nominal control at best. RTs are not just merchants but small military fleets in their own right. That is a great explanation! This made me Google rogue traders and I came across this list from one of the wikis: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Rogue_Traders The list of known rogue traders isn't very long, but reading through the notes on their activities seems to support your position on their role in society.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 16:39
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwo9QJp13dY
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
Unless the Ultramarine books are no longer canon xenophobia in the Imperium varies widely, to the point where different sects of the imperial church have widely different views on aliens. Also the Mechancium basically has a "All tech is bad tech UNTIL we vet it" which is why they try to get their hands on xenotech and figure out how it works. They do the same with STCs The Imperiums postion on aliens continues to vary widely. Rogue Traders exists because the Imperium actually doesnt really give a gently caress what people do as long as they A. Support the eternal war effort through taxes,men, tech or other supplies. And B. Don't do poo poo that summons daemons. Everything else is basically guidelines. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 17:41
|
|
|
abrosheen posted:That is a great explanation! This made me Google rogue traders and I came across this list from one of the wikis: How the hell is Roboute Surcouf not on this page? Telsa Cola posted:Unless the Ultramarine books are no longer canon xenophobia in the Imperium varies widely, to the point where different sects of the imperial church have widely different views on aliens. I mean, Deathwatch regularly gets into firefights with the techpriests on Stygies VIII becuase they just can't get enough of that xenos tech. Stygies fuckin' rules, Mars drools 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
Which is funny because Mars has a huge hard on for necron tech. Like 90% of early necron stories was "Mars Mechanicus team dug too deep looking for these cool robot things" Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 17:49
|
|
|
And the rest where when Orks did it by accident...
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:18
|
|
|
So I've been rereading some of the Horus Heresy novels after a decade or so, and I'm suprised to find that some of them are actually.... good? Like, actually good well written books with interesting things to say about this sci-fi fightmans universe and as well as humanity in general. I guess I've just been reading too many lovely light novels and web novels that are just 100% plot with bad writing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
There are tons of planets filled with things that are human enough that the Inquisition just ignores that everyone from Pleasantus has the same mutation that makes their sweat smell like fresh apples. At worst they get declared Abhumans. As long as you pay your tithes inside the Imperium and do what the Arbites, Ecclesiarchy, Mechanicus, and most importantly the Administratum tell you they will cheerfully ignore all manner of unusual things. Getting a xenos artifact into the Imperium from outside the border might involve barbarity, blackmail, or bribery but once it's inside the borders if you tell someone it's from the next sector over it's not like they can check. People wear Eldar soulstones as jewelry, have rings made by cyborged orangutans, and use xeno eggs as grenades. It's a wide galaxy and the Inquisition is spread thin. Unless whatever you're using encourages you to betray the Emperor nobody really cares where it came from.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
The imperiums hilariously grim but people really reaaallly play it up past whats actually presented.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:The imperiums hilariously grim but people really reaaallly play it up past whats actually presented. Eehhh. Most of what's presented focuses on the elite class like space Marines etc. Whenever you get a look into the average citizens experience it is always about as worse as you can imagine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:25
|
|
|
We only see the bad worlds of the Imperium because that's where the trouble happens and that's where our heroes go. There are entire worlds that are incredibly peaceful, secure, and affluent. You could live your whole life on some medieval planet and just farm and praise the emperor. You could be an Amasec distiller on some resort world and live a relaxed life making the best booze you can. You could be in the PDF of a peaceful world and just train and march and go out on the town on weekends.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
Even before the bad stuff happens it's still pretty drat grim. That's why the thread title used to be "go read Eisenhorn". It shows you how bad everything is everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2020 20:34
|
|