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Pirate Jet posted:Once again: Blockbuster Video is not a “lesser” subforum about “lesser” films. It was made specifically on the request of people who took issue with the tone and atmosphere of CineD. Blockbuster Video was the attempted solution at something many goons said was a problem, and any inactivity in the forum comes from a forums-wide lack of interest in the subforum, not out of any sense of shaming. I just think maybe there should be an effort to not alienate people. We shouldn't have to have a secondary subforum because the culture here can be so loving toxic that threads on certain topics get shitposted into oblivion and then turned to totally different topics because people don't respect or approve of the films in discussion. This subforum is literally 85% megathreads with one or two movie discussion posts or threads on interesting topics. Let's be real here, this place is dying and maybe treating people like they are loving idiots if they wanna talk about MCU or other popcorn dumb movies and threadshitting their posts isn't the best idea.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I am the End-Boss of this thread. Holy poo poo will you please shut the gently caress up. If you're going to constantly Kramer your way into threads and desperately attempt to be the center of attention could you PLEASE actually be funny or actually interesting?
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Jun 9, 2020 19:05
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The alphabet agencies and in particular the CIA being dirty tricks organizations with legacies that are at best tainted is so ingrained in our culture and specifically our movies that it's really low hanging fruit. Basically unless you are literally the antagonist from The Shape of Water you're not really on the fence about the CIA, an organization that gets hate from both left and right. I would suggest the right, centre and American (soft) left generally excuse the CIA etc on the basis that the stuff they did was long ago, in other countries, to people who probably deserved it, to stop the larger threats of communism/islamism, in service of the best country in the world. I don't think they get the broader contempt they rightfully deserve in offline/mainstream society - certainly not American/anglosphere society, that is
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Jun 9, 2020 19:06
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Arist posted:The whole point is that blackness is not a monolith, dude So what lesson did T'Challa learn at the end of the film that us film illiterates don't get?
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Jun 9, 2020 19:06
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OpenSourceBurger posted:I just think maybe there should be an effort to not alienate people. We shouldn't have to have a secondary subforum because the culture here can be so loving toxic that threads on certain topics get shitposted into oblivion and then turned to totally different topics because people don't respect or approve of the films in discussion. The complaint being lodged at CineD is a level of toxicity, and I’ll again state that I don’t think the shitposts in the first pages of this thread are okay - but if Blockbuster Video was specifically made as an experiment to create a less serious version of CineD, and died nearly immediately, I view that as evidence of how sustainable a non-serious film discussion forum actually is on SA. It’s true that some people aren’t interested in film discussion that involves more in-depth analysis on shot composition and editing or quoting any philosophers, but also some definitely are, and if we already have a solution for that, I’m not sure how much further we need to go. Toxic posters should be reprimanded, but that cuts both ways - both people who enter a thread about a small entertainment project someone is doing with a loved one just to dismiss the idea, and also people who want to shut down any more serious discussion of film and/or only engage in flamewars. CineD regulars have seen a lot of the latter over the years and it conditions them to become the former. It’s not an excuse, just an explanation.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:10
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Pirate Jet posted:Once again: Blockbuster Video is not a “lesser” subforum about “lesser” films. It was made specifically on the request of people who took issue with the tone and atmosphere of CineD. Blockbuster Video was the attempted solution at something many goons said was a problem, and any inactivity in the forum comes from a forums-wide lack of interest in the subforum, not out of any sense of shaming. It was put under CD, killing it before it even started. Other threads and subforums about movie-related topics mysteriously haven't had this problem. Scifi Wifi began as a Star Wars subforum. "But there's a Star Wars thread in CD," you say. Yes, we know. CD is not a wholly bad or worthless forum but its reputation is deservedly terrible, as evidenced by people going out of their way to successfully kill the original thrust of this thread. Its value basically comes from threads that encourage movie-watching, participation, and learning about the industry. As a response to the rest of it, discussion of popular media has been balkanized out to GBS, Scifi Wifi, and so on. Pirate Jet posted:Okay, so what’s your excuse for everyone else in the thread you’re doing it to? quote:Once again: Blockbuster Video is not a “lesser” subforum about “lesser” films. It was made specifically on the request of people who took issue with the tone and atmosphere of CineD. When you admit out loud that BBV was created because people dislike CD the debate is pretty much over. The tone of this thread from the get-go has been either shitposty or snotty as gently caress so Arist for all their intensity doesn't have to demonstrate anything as far as that goes. Lt. Danger posted:I would suggest the right, centre and American (soft) left generally excuse the CIA etc on the basis that the stuff they did was long ago, in other countries, to people who probably deserved it, to stop the larger threats of communism/islamism, in service of the best country in the world. I don't think they get the broader contempt they rightfully deserve in offline/mainstream society - certainly not American/anglosphere society, that is I would say there's a severe difference in how the political class treats the CIA, who have to get along with them in order to turn the levers of the bureaucracy, and what most Americans think. Yesterday I somehow found myself watching Three Days to Kill on YouTube, easily the dumbest movie I've watched this year, and even it understands that the CIA sucks.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:12
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Sodomy Hussein posted:It was put under CD, killing it before it even started. It was a top level forum until like a month ago IIRC.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:13
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Pirate Jet posted:The complaint being lodged at CineD is a level of toxicity, and I’ll again state that I don’t think the shitposts in the first pages of this thread are okay - but if Blockbuster Video was specifically made as an experiment to create a less serious version of CineD, and died nearly immediately, I view that as evidence of how sustainable a non-serious film discussion forum actually is on SA. It’s true that some people aren’t interested in film discussion that involves more in-depth analysis on shot composition and editing or quoting any philosophers, but also some definitely are, and if we already have a solution for that, I’m not sure how much further we need to go. Again, the serious discussion is 100% fine. I don't think anyone here is saying that the issue is over-serious discussion of films. The issue is the shitposting of threads that certain posters see as 'beneath them' and how that quickly snowballs into the thread being totally overtaken by people mocking the topic or ignoring the topic altogether. I think we are on the same page here but I think we are cross ways because I guess I don't see the prevalence of people trying to shut down interesting topics of discussion whereas I see stuff like what happened in this thread happen more often. Both are bad clearly, we agree there, but I just think one issue is more of a problem in terms of prevalence over the other.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:15
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as noted Blockbuster Video was a top-level forum with a specific ban on SMG and SMG-posting created after posters in QCS asked for a space where they could talk about the same movies that Cinema Discusso did but on a more prosaic level, i.e. without formalist analysis or overtly political critique bluntly, it failed because the posters in QCS weren't interested in discussing films in the way they liked, rather they were interested in shutting up people who discussed films in a way they didn't like
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Jun 9, 2020 19:17
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Pirate Jet posted:Okay, so what’s your excuse for everyone else in the thread you’re doing it to?  You freaking out at the Meteor Man comment was most of the reason this whole thing escalated, so it's not like you bear no responsibility here, especially after your incredibly sad attempts to further rile me up by getting my name wrong. Pirate Jet posted:It’s true that some people aren’t interested in film discussion that involves more in-depth analysis on shot composition and editing or quoting any philosophers, but also some definitely are, and if we already have a solution for that, I’m not sure how much further we need to go. But the entire point I've been trying to make here is that Cinema Discusso is not actually a better place to have those discussions, as evidenced by the utter reticence displayed in this thread to have back-and-forth discussions, analyze scenes or even really consider my read of the film. The discourse here isn't any less shallow, it's just kind of more... (sigh) pretentious.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:21
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Sodomy Hussein posted:It was put under CD, killing it before it even started. It was not. It was a top-level forum until it was recently moved to being a subforum of CineD due to inactivity. Sodomy Hussein posted:When you admit out loud that BBV was created because people dislike CD the debate is pretty much over. The tone of this thread from the get-go has been either shitposty or snotty as gently caress so Arist for all their intensity doesn't have to demonstrate anything as far as that goes. So why was Imp Zone created? Why was C-SPAM? A subforum made to discuss a medium in a different tone doesn’t immediately invalidate the original. I feel like the rules and moderation of SA have made it pretty clear that not liking the practices of a thread or forum isn’t an excuse to go in it and start flamewars. The proper response to posts that are snotty and unfair is not to jump in the thread and curse out everyone in it, even those who have attempted to respond to you and others charitably.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:23
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Arist posted:You freaking out at the Meteor Man comment was most of the reason this whole thing escalated, so it's not like you bear no responsibility here, especially after your incredibly sad attempts to further rile me up by getting my name wrong. This is exactly what I’m referring to - I called out the way your post was condescending and operating on bad-faith assumptions and your response is to accuse me of being mad and having a meltdown while you make posts like this: Arist posted:Oh, the Hong Kong protests? Those protests that started a full loving year after this movie released? Those protests? You disingenuous gently caress? That really feels like projection to me, and you are getting way more upset about incorrect usernames than anyone ever was about fuckin’ Meteor Man.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:26
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Speaking of inactive forums does anyone still care about the Film Dump?
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Jun 9, 2020 19:27
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Pirate Jet posted:This is exactly what I’m referring to - I called out the way your post was condescending and operating on bad-faith assumptions and your response is to accuse me of being mad and having a meltdown while you make posts like this: If you really believe me to be on tilt in a thread, intentionally loving with me doesn't actually do anything to improve the level of discourse in the thread, it is entirely an attempt on your part to instigate. That you are now whining about anger that you intentionally sought to magnify and exploit is incredible. You could seriously just loving apologize, dude. It's not hard. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2020 19:29
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Arist posted:If you really believe me to be on tilt in a thread, intentionally loving with me doesn't actually do anything to improve the level of discourse in the thread, it is entirely an attempt on your part to instigate. That you are now whining about anger that you intentionally sought to magnify and exploit is incredible. Please point out how I am “intentionally” loving with you, because otherwise, I owe you zero apologies.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:30
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Arist posted:If you really believe me to be on tilt in a thread, intentionally loving with me doesn't actually do anything to improve the level of discourse in the thread, it is entirely an attempt on your part to instigate. That you are now whining about anger that you intentionally sought to magnify and exploit is incredible. I have a lot of sympathy for you but you might wanna take a break there.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:30
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I would say there's a severe difference in how the political class treats the CIA, who have to get along with them in order to turn the levers of the bureaucracy, and what most Americans think. disagree, CIA are evolved cops and plenty of Americans love cops Jack Bauer might be old hat but isn't Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan still floating around out there? there's something romantic about the good man who gives up his honour to do bad things in the name of a good cause as mentioned though the whole thing's a smokescreen - while we were debating over whether the CIA are good or bad based on their tactics, we quietly forgot about wider American hegemony
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Jun 9, 2020 19:31
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Pirate Jet posted:So why was Imp Zone created? Why was C-SPAM? A subforum made to discuss a medium in a different tone doesn’t immediately invalidate the original. "C-SPAM vs. D&D" is a can of worms best left to QCS, but we're finding more and more in the course of general QCS discussions that mods should be doing more to control subforums. As opposed in this case to splitting subforums up because modding them would be too unpopular with certain goons, which is exactly what was done in the case of BBV. quote:I feel like the rules and moderation of SA have made it pretty clear that not liking the practices of a thread or forum isn’t an excuse to go in it and start flamewars. The proper response to posts that are snotty and unfair is not to jump in the thread and curse out everyone in it, even those who have attempted to respond to you and others charitably. Telling people to either take their snotty and unfair posting lying down or go elsewhere isn't realistic or cool. quote:as noted Blockbuster Video was a top-level forum with a specific ban on SMG and SMG-posting created after posters in QCS asked for a space where they could talk about the same movies that Cinema Discusso did but on a more prosaic level, i.e. without formalist analysis or overtly political critique Plenty of discussion about movies is going on in SA outside the hallowed halls of the CD tastemakers, and the more people try and pretend that CD is just too good of a forum for most users the worse this gets.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:05
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Sodomy Hussein posted:"C-SPAM vs. D&D" is a can of worms best left to QCS, but we're finding more and more in the course of general QCS discussions that mods should be doing more to control subforums. As opposed in this case to splitting subforums up because modding them would be too unpopular with certain goons, which is exactly what was done in the case of BBV. Blockbuster Video was made specifically on the request of goons who wanted a different kind of film discussion, the stated goal was not to create a subforum to avoid certain users. And if that’s the case, then the claims of BBV being a place you can avoid “the worst of CineD” while also being a “posting ghetto” are at odds. Sodomy Hussein posted:Telling people to either take their snotty and unfair posting lying down or go elsewhere isn't realistic or cool. As I’ve said, I don’t condone the attempts at threadshitting made on the first few pages, but the proper response is not to start flamewars and continue making the thread worse. We are not talking about serious social issues whose solutions are long overdue, we are posting about posting about films on the internet. Civility still reigns. Sodomy Hussein posted:Plenty of discussion about movies is going on in SA outside the hallowed halls of the CD tastemakers, and the more people try and pretend that CD is just too good of a forum for most users the worse this gets. Nobody is saying that. CineD regulars acknowledge the forum’s focus is a different kind of film discussion than some people want, and Blockbuster Video was made as a more casual alternative.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I am the End-Boss of this thread. See, to me this is obviously not the post of a joyless intellectual snob. I suspect the man behind this avatar is having fun arguing about superhero movies, and even if I totally disagree with him, does that prevent or steal my good time? Why or how should it?
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Jun 9, 2020 20:23
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??? people can, should and do post about movies wherever they like? most of the activity in Cinema Discusso is in comic-book and other genre movie threads? the majority of posts are relatively low-effort posts about press releases or goon opinions, by number if not also by word count? I remember the QCS thread and the argument was that SMG and other posters dominated discussion by posting "heavy-duty" Star Wars and comic-book movie analysis that, for whatever reason, got people's backs up and made threads unreadable, so they should make a forum where SMG can't post. but then They Gave A Blockbuster Video And Nobody Came
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Jun 9, 2020 20:34
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I think the fact that this is a place where zero effort shitposting in a new topic until the OP gives up is just accepted by the mods basically says everything you need to know about why people have a negative view of CD. It has very little to do with having an oddball take on funny pages heroes that runs several paragraphs or whatever.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:34
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not to defend it as such but SA has always had an adversarial forum culture that tacitly encourages first-page threadshitting, amongst other things. it's by no means unique to this particular forum
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Jun 9, 2020 20:39
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The only snobbery I’ve seen in CD is a general dislike of Marvel movies. What a crime.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:05
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Lt. Danger posted:not to defend it as such but SA has always had an adversarial forum culture that tacitly encourages first-page threadshitting, amongst other things. it's by no means unique to this particular forum It's hard to square this take with the idea that well actually CD is the smart people thoughtful film discourse place.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:15
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OpenSourceBurger posted:Holy poo poo will you please shut the gently caress up. If you're going to constantly Kramer your way into threads and desperately attempt to be the center of attention could you PLEASE actually be funny or actually interesting? I’m here to save the thread, given that the OP has achieved his purpose and left. (Evidently, he agreed that Chappie is the best MCU film.) So, I have changed the course things. Things will never be the same again. You are now failing to curate the MCU for a first-time viewer. If you are not interested doing that, then why persist?
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Jun 9, 2020 21:20
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sean10mm posted:It's hard to square this take with the idea that well actually CD is the smart people thoughtful film discourse place. The experience is what you make of it imo. I only regularly post in a few CD threads, and most bookmarked are centered around movies/genres I personally like (naturally). In general, the discourse is fairly chill and not always BLACK PANTHER WAS CIA PSYOP  type discussion lol.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:21
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CD's sneering disregard for it's reputation in gbs was always a point in its favor imo Bring back the goofus-goonlant comic images I say!
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Jun 9, 2020 21:28
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Pirate Jet posted:Please point out how I am “intentionally” loving with you, because otherwise, I owe you zero apologies. You piled a ton of poo poo on Arist over that Meteor Man thing even though he was obviously just saying it to stop someone from being pedantic in the future which someone absolutely 100% would have been given the level of discourse going on itt. You can’t seriously think people didn’t notice your obvious attempts to troll and irritate him there.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:38
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OpenSourceBurger posted:I just think maybe there should be an effort to not alienate people. We shouldn't have to have a secondary subforum because the culture here can be so loving toxic that threads on certain topics get shitposted into oblivion and then turned to totally different topics because people don't respect or approve of the films in discussion. We are getting way off of the point here: the entire point of this thread was not to invite MCU discussion, but to essentially generate listicles, in a forum specifically designated for film discussion. With that in mind, people made snarky comments, but plenty of lists were generated. I'm not sure how much further this thread could have gone before it died, other than a tangent into specific MCU film discussion, which it did take. At some point, Arist started rejecting some discourse of Black Panther in favor of his. Then began to insult people who challenged their reading of the film, also accusing them of not being sincere in their respective readings of the films. To this moment, Arist still believes that no one is sincerely engaging with their interpretation of the film.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:44
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Escobarbarian posted:You piled a ton of poo poo on Arist over that Meteor Man thing even though he was obviously just saying it to stop someone from being pedantic in the future which someone absolutely 100% would have been given the level of discourse going on itt. You can’t seriously think people didn’t notice your obvious attempts to troll and irritate him there. The Meteor Man/Steel comment did come off a bit snide. Actually, I feel like it was intentionally snide as a means to thumb one's nose at CineD's alleged penchant for unironic contrarianism. Am I wrong?
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Jun 9, 2020 21:49
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Oh, sure, and I'm the one being oversensitive. Christ.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:52
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sean10mm posted:At this point you're just jumping feet-first on every rake in the yard out of spite. And this too! I wonder what this thread is like for a first-time CD viewer?
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Jun 9, 2020 22:00
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pre-emptively demanding people bring up/not bring up certain films was a bit confrontational and "cry out" was a weird word choice, especially since you could have just left the qualifier at "major"sean10mm posted:It's hard to square this take with the idea that well actually CD is the smart people thoughtful film discourse place. like I said two posts above, CD isn't all that highbrow. most of the discussion is still rooted in nerdy genre film megathreads and there's not all that many effortposts what CD does do is differ from mainstream nerd consensus. the big beef before Marvel was whether the Star Wars prequels were Good or Bad - hardly arthouse stuff, yuh?
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Jun 9, 2020 22:04
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Lt. Danger posted:pre-emptively demanding people bring up/not bring up certain films was a bit confrontational and "cry out" was a weird word choice, especially since you could have just left the qualifier at "major" This thread has been badgering me about why I think Black Panther is more culturally important than the output of an obscure Ugandan film studio. That happened today. Like, hours ago. If I do not explicitly define the parameters of my argument, people here will absolutely weaponize any perceived vagueness.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:11
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Lt. Danger posted:like I said two posts above, CD isn't all that highbrow. most of the discussion is still rooted in nerdy genre film megathreads and there's not all that many effortposts I thirsted over Chris Pine's dick scene from Outlaw King a few minutes ago in the Snyderdome thread. Truly highbrow.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:11
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One thing that people are evidently missing is that curation is an artform unto itself. If you go to an art gallery, they don’t just shlump together a bunch of work by a single artist. It’s common for curators to create radical juxtapositions as a form of critique. Although people were scandalized, curating a ‘Disney-MCU Exhibition’ with no official Disney-MCU films is actually bold artistic statement.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:20
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Arist posted:This thread has been badgering me about why I think Black Panther is more culturally important than the output of an obscure Ugandan film studio. That happened today. Like, hours ago. If I do not explicitly define the parameters of my argument, people here will absolutely weaponize any perceived vagueness. ok but your opening salvo itt was to cast judgement on the community for not disagreeing with the statement that "T'Challa protect[s] white supremacy in Africa" and the idea that comic book movies need to be grim and gritty to be good, sooo you didn't just wander into this thread by accident, you know?
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Jun 9, 2020 22:29
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I legitimately have no idea what the hell you're getting at here.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:34
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your first post was to say "T'Challa protects white supremacy in Africa" and "comic book movies are only good when they're serious" are "legitimately baffling 'criticisms' that virtually anyone... could immediately identify as just wrong" and "it's really telling that it received zero pushback" that's not really a neutral statement, is it? and, you know, that's fine, that's cool. I like it when people are forthright, I like it when people argue their positions, it's interesting. but I don't think you can then characterise disagreement as "badgering" and "weaponising", not after a start like that. what's good for the goose and all that
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Jun 9, 2020 22:56
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