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Mister Olympus posted:Do you just stop in rooms and make sure everyone picks up every coin, to make that much from end of turn? That sounds really tedious/time-consuming so we don't do that, and if the game's systems are balanced around assuming you do that to afford enhancements, I would call it bad design. It's a "tactical tradeoff" in the sense of wasting cards for money but spending turns just moving around is boring, there should be a better way to ensure the "correct" amount of gold per scenario. or the correct amount of card expenditures per scenario, for that matter. Echoing what QuarkJets said, taking EOT looting into account when moving around during battle is where we get most of our coins and definitely a part of the strategic design space. I mean, so is looting through abilities, and you get the same sort of trade-off: you maybe do something slightly less optimal in order to pick up coins. In the case of ability looting you're using one of your two actions to do that, in the case of EOT looting you're maybe putting yourself in more danger or compromising future maneuverability etc. Class design even factors in here since e.g. a range heavy character has better choice of targets when moving onto coins. Stopping to do mass looting already shouldn't work since you're always on a timer with your max stamina, and we usually play at +1 difficulty or higher which makes that prohibitively difficult (although ironically still balances itself out somewhat since playing at higher difficulty makes your coins worth more). I definitely can't speak to everyone's experience or design intent behind how much money you're supposed to be making to funnel toward enhancements, just conveying my personal experiences.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:25
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I play Sun, so Not only do I not have any viable loot actions, I also have to be extremely careful with my movement just to keep up with the party. Detouring to pick up a coin might cost me an entire wasted turn. I do what I can, but I usually only end up with 0-2 coins per scenario.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:31
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Our group is really good at this game and usually manages to get most scenarios down to 1 enemy then maximize turns for looting before we kill the last enemy so we usually have tons of money. This is also at +2 difficulty so ymmv. We also cooperate way more than the rulebook wants you to so we set things up for poor sllies to grab coins as much as we can.
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Jul 4, 2020 04:50
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I managed plenty of end-of-turn looting with Sun, in fact that's one of the classes that really wants to get at least one enhancement to unlock its true power.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:03
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KPC_Mammon posted:You can make a character, apply enhancements with their starting gold, and then never play that character again. I think it kinda spoils the game to use weird exploits, but it's your game.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:45
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Zurai posted:By the rules as written, the only way to return a character to the box is to retire it. Pretty sure the rules do not say that anywhere; it's not unusual for campaigns with multiple parties to have different characters of the same class in different parties. The personal quest is the only thing that's permanently claimed when you create a character.
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Jul 4, 2020 12:42
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Wait wait, I want to confirm something. Let’s say someone has a scoundrel character, but they decide to create a cragheart and play that one for a while. Are people STILL not allowed to play a scoundrel even though they aren’t in use at the moment?
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Jul 4, 2020 13:42
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Can I roll 15 characters or so to prevent my teammates from switching characters? The possibilities are endless
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Jul 4, 2020 13:52
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wait wait, I want to confirm something. Let’s say someone has a scoundrel character, but they decide to create a cragheart and play that one for a while. Are people STILL not allowed to play a scoundrel even though they aren’t in use at the moment?
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Jul 4, 2020 21:32
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Remember it's possible to completely run out of Personal Quests, after which point no character can officially retire, but that obviously wouldn't mean the next person to make say a Brute seals off the Brute from ever being played again. So yeah you can game the system the way KPC described, although you're limited somewhat by prosperity level, starting gold, and number of possible enhancements. Zurai was right about the PQ being permanently sealed with that specific character tho, which means potentially locking content forever if you do this too many times. You can also just like, find a scenario with a lot of easy looting and keep playing it over and over in casual mode if you want to gain infinite gold. Or just skip all of this and just directly cheat since there's no Gloomhaven police who are going to bust you for doing whatever in your game. In my experience tho the game does start to suffer from a difficulty ceiling at high level and prosperity, so I would advise just playing regularly to preserve the challenge for as long as possible.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:48
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My wife and I are still having a blast playing through the campaign on the weekends. Angry Face and Sun are a pretty solid combo now that we’ve figured out the classes. Last night we played a pretty cool scenario with the objective to protect an NPC ally for 10 rounds. The difficulty escalated in a hurry — and one poorly timed null almost cost us the game. It’s the first time that we’ve won by using every single card in our decks, and we both finished with 1HP. It was awesome.
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Jul 4, 2020 22:04
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Jabor posted:I managed plenty of end-of-turn looting with Sun, in fact that's one of the classes that really wants to get at least one enhancement to unlock its true power. I managed to win the solo scenario as Sun, and am rocking the reward, but I'm wondering about my second enhancement. I'm thinking some Light generation on a movement card maybe? There aren't many, if any, bottom light generation beyond the one card that does it for a set number of turns..
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Jul 5, 2020 00:02
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Dreylad posted:I managed to win the solo scenario as Sun, and am rocking the reward, but I'm wondering about my second enhancement. I'm thinking some Light generation on a movement card maybe? There aren't many, if any, bottom light generation beyond the one card that does it for a set number of turns.. I put that enhancement that you're talking about on the bottom of Tactical Order since it's a good all around move
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Jul 5, 2020 00:12
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Dreylad posted:I managed to win the solo scenario as Sun, and am rocking the reward, but I'm wondering about my second enhancement. I'm thinking some Light generation on a movement card maybe? There aren't many, if any, bottom light generation beyond the one card that does it for a set number of turns.. That is an excellent choice and a commonly recommended one.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:54
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What’s the whole solo scenario reward you are all talking about? Does it occur within a normal 4p campaign
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Jul 5, 2020 02:43
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Truecon420 posted:What’s the whole solo scenario reward you are all talking about? Does it occur within a normal 4p campaign There's a released add on that contains a solo scenario and item reward for each class you can do once you're level 5. The scenarios range from super interesting to excruciatingly difficult, and the rewards range from utterly useless to absurdly broken. Worth mentioning to your group and seeing if they want them, you can grab the pdf or order the parts for like $15. PDF of the items and scenarios: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8ppELln5Z0rdFhFTVljWXFyTUE
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Jul 5, 2020 02:47
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It was a kickstarter bonus, IIRC, now available for print-and-play. You can read about it here, and there’s a google drive link to the scenarios and the items.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:49
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Kalli posted:The scenarios range from super interesting to excruciatingly difficult
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Jul 5, 2020 04:25
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Aggro posted:It was a kickstarter bonus, IIRC, now available for print-and-play. Kalli posted:There's a released add on that contains a solo scenario and item reward for each class you can do once you're level 5. Interesting, thank you both. I'll ask my group
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Jul 5, 2020 05:30
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my friend just rolled Saw, and I play sun. Me once he started feeding me cards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgNcE8mRM0
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Jul 5, 2020 05:49
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Dreylad posted:I managed to win the solo scenario as Sun, and am rocking the reward, but I'm wondering about my second enhancement. I'm thinking some Light generation on a movement card maybe? There aren't many, if any, bottom light generation beyond the one card that does it for a set number of turns.. Also, don't overlook Cautious Advance. That can also take extra movement on the bottom AND has an enhancement dot on top. I suggest something like Bless up there rather than a very expensive +1 but ymmv
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Jul 5, 2020 14:26
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dwarf74 posted:I focused on improving my mobility. I added a +1 Move on Tactical Order and a Jump on the bottom of Hammer Blow. I found my Light generation was adequate already, but mobility was an obvious concern. Yeah, that's a good point, mobility is an issue too. Especially in our group that's Sun/Triforce/Circles/Saw I'm setting up light for myself and my Elementalist, and I should probably be focusing more on tanking than trying to get a few single target hits in. I wouldn't bother increasing the shield value on Cautious Advance since I have Bright Aegis Dreylad fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 17:00
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Dreylad posted:Yeah, that's a good point, mobility is an issue too. Especially in our group that's Sun/Triforce/Circles/Saw I'm setting up light for myself and my Elementalist, and I should probably be focusing more on tanking than trying to get a few single target hits in. I wouldn't bother increasing the shield value on Cautious Advance since I have Bright Aegis I think putting Jump on one of your nice level 1 cards is key. Otherwise you won't have it until Lvl 9, if that's the card you take. I went with Hammer Blow because it's with you your whole career and because you don't always need Jump.
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Jul 5, 2020 18:19
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We don't have any personal quests remaining and it is trivial to get 100+ gold by running Lost Island. Since you are still limited to 9 enhanced cards (or whatever your prosperity level is) and enhancing them is really expensive making a character for enhancements has a pretty minor impact on gameplay. It is a boardgame that has solo scenarios that can be played repeatedly and we are in the middle of a global pandemic that prevents many people from leaving the house. Anything that can be grinded up through repeated plays can also be handwaved if you want. We found limiting enhancements based on starting gold a reasonable compromise after playing Lost Island enough times for it to be boring. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 20:10
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Isaac had a playtesting stream earlier today that showed off some of the unlockable characters. Watch out for spoilers!
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Jul 14, 2020 00:58
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Rules Question: If a character forces a monster to attack and the monster applies a condition to all their attacks via their monster card (ex: Vipers and poision), do forced attacks also gain that condition.
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Jul 14, 2020 03:29
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Absolutely, note it also uses the monster attack deck, not that character's (unless specified).
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Jul 14, 2020 03:35
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I friend managed to talk me and two others into trying Gloomhaven on TTS a while back. Couple of games later I bought the physical game to support the devs, though we continue to play digitally. We've now played quite a bit, having reached and won Scenario 48. We started with Brute, Spellweaver, Tinkerer and Mindthief. Mindthief retired and unlocked Saw, I retired Spellweaver, but chose not to play the unlocked class (Circles) and chose Cragheart instead. Tinkerer managed to retire after our last scenario, and unlocked Angry Face. Brute is due retirement next (starting on the Scenario 55 unlocked by his Personal Quest), and is thinking of giving the Scoundrel a whirl, since his unlock would have been Angry Face as well. Saw is also going to retire soon-ish, no idea what's his unlock is going to be. Some observations: *There seem to some fundamental design issues with some game mechanics, with the design overvaluing melee Summons and the Retaliate ability in contrast to their actual effectiveness. *Card balance is uneven. All too often character levels up to discover that one of their choices sucks and the other is great. Sometimes both choices suck, with the card not taken last level is strictly better than either option. *Cragheart's L4 card can absolutely break some scenarios. I cheesed the final room of Scenario 31 and the entirety of 48 with it. And he's a starting class! *There are some issues with certain classes right from the very start: *Mindthief's Augment mechanic would be interesting, were it not for L1 Mind's Weakness being so much better than any other choice it isn't even funny. And Mindthief's melee attacks seem to be balanced damage-wise under the assumption he is using Mind's Weakness all the time. *Scoundrel starts with two persistent loss cards, but it seems to me he cannot ever afford to play them with his 9-card hand.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:02
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Melee summons and retaliate have the potential to go bonkers, so it's somewhat understandable that the design is gun-shy about them. But it definitely would have been better if they had just let the good ones be good and not bothered seeding so many other crappy ones throughout class decks.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:09
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Warden posted:I friend managed to talk me and two others into trying Gloomhaven on TTS a while back. Couple of games later I bought the physical game to support the devs, though we continue to play digitally. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I disagree that card balance is uneven. I think that the balance in the game is incredible, in that it allows so many different playstyles to have an option, even within a single class. Sure, some cards seem obviously better to you, but maybe that's just how you play or the makeup of your party or what you were looking for adding to your deck when picking a card based on previous missions you did. I'm not saying the game is perfect and that there aren't flaws. I just think that with the amount of variety in classes (and variety within classes to play in completely different ways) and so many options for combining parties of classes, it's really good balance. I think a lot of people mistake "this class/card didn't click with me/my style" for "this is a bad class/card". Some people have fun with it by min/maxing, some people have fun by trying new things, and this game provides options for both without sacrificing the other.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:26
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The original 4 classes (Brute, Spellweaver, Tinker, Scoundrel) definitely are the least refined of all the classes, with some dubious level up cards early on that lead to some weird power curves. My spellweaver felt anemic for a while until I started being able to reliable generate elements and I never felt like I was able to dish out significant damage. But maybe I wasn't playing it very well and you're able to deal solid, consistent damage. Scoundrel with a melee buddy is pretty fun.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:33
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ObsidianBeast posted:Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I disagree that card balance is uneven. I think that the balance in the game is incredible, in that it allows so many different playstyles to have an option, even within a single class. Sure, some cards seem obviously better to you, but maybe that's just how you play or the makeup of your party or what you were looking for adding to your deck when picking a card based on previous missions you did. On the flip side, a lot of people mistake "there are a lot of moving parts that make evaluating options difficult" for "these options are basically equivalent." Gloomhaven's balance is an impressive feat considering it's designed to accommodate such a huge range of circumstances. It's got 17 deeply asymmetric characters with multiple builds and like a hundred different scenarios of varying conditions that can be played with different player counts at different levels and different amounts of progress and resource accumulation. Just making it playable with so much potential variation is a major accomplishment and blows away a lot of the competition. But it's very much a matter of making the balance "good enough." Yeah, you can durdle through the campaign doing whatever and be pretty much fine, and that's nice and a very admirable accomplishment in design in itself, but that doesn't mean everything is equally good. There's a wide gulf between builds that can make it through the campaign ok at base level difficulty and builds that need barely any optimization to blow through scenarios at +2 difficulty, to say nothing of game-breaking builds that players houserule new difficulties for (above and beyond the difficulty options supplied in the rulebook) and then proceed to smash apart. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 15:03
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ObsidianBeast posted:Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I disagree that card balance is uneven. I think that the balance in the game is incredible, in that it allows so many different playstyles to have an option, even within a single class. Sure, some cards seem obviously better to you, but maybe that's just how you play or the makeup of your party or what you were looking for adding to your deck when picking a card based on previous missions you did.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:07
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Going back here, sorry for the double-postWarden posted:Some observations: First and foremost - for Cragheart, are you aware that you can't block off sections of the map? It's an extremely powerful card and an awesome game-changer, but you can't - for example - section off a portion of the map and trap melee enemies or block off entire rooms. Now for the rest... * Summons are extremely overvalued in base GH. There's a few incredible ones, but largely those are ranged (for example the Spellweaver's Mystic Ally). FH tries to fix this by making some non-loss summons in classes like the Necromancer. * Card balance is rocky, yeah. With extremely few exceptions, I just ignore any card on level up that has a Loss on top and bottom unless those Losses are amazing and persistent. * Yes, The Mind's Weakness is the only Augment worth doing until late in the game except for certain tweaked builds (believe it or not there's a mindthief tank build, for example.) And the rest of the MT's cards are balanced around the idea that you'll always have TMW up and running. One houseruled solution I've seen is - reduce TMW to +1, but add +1 to all Melee attacks. I have not tried this myself. * Scoundrel absolutely should not use Loss cards except in barn-burner DPS race scenarios, or when there's a key target to eliminate. I think this is mostly fine, actually - it's a starter class and that's part of the learning curve for the whole game, IMO. It does quite well enough without Losses, fortunately.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:18
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dwarf74 posted:Going back here, sorry for the double-post I'm not sure what you're getting at, sorry. I know you can't place obstacles in door hexes or on top of anything, but I thought otherwise any empty hex is game. Run rocks from wall to wall in a room, and enemies ain't getting past that without Jump or Flight. Scenario 31. The final room has a obstacle that must be destroyed in the center of the room and two spawn points in corners. I set up rocks between the obstacle and the walls of the room next to the spawn points, which trapped the spawning Night Demons on the other side of the wall. Had the scenario continued too long they would have started spawning on the other side of the wall though, but we got it done before that. Scenario 48 is just one room boss fight against the Dark Rider. I got to go before him in Round 1 and slapped two rocks between the three-hex tree obstacle and the difficult terrain log and one rock between the bottom edge of tree and the wall, which forced him to move onto the log (he had 3 movement, and after the first difficult terrain hex the only available hex was also difficult terrain so he stopped. I glugged a Stamina Pot, which allowed me to go before him again next round, and slapped more rocks right up to top wall, where a Harrower and a Imp had started but they had moved on Round 1. This trapped him for the entire scenario. Warden fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 15:50
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Warden posted:I'm not sure what you're getting at, sorry. I know you can't place obstacles in door hexes or on top of anything, but otherwise any empty hex is game. Run rocks from wall to wall in a room, and enemies ain't getting past that without Jump or Flight. Yeah, you can't do this. Rulebook page 14: "Players can never completely cut off one area of the scenario map from another, such that the area cannot be moved into without going through obstacles".
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Jul 16, 2020 15:53
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NRVNQSR posted:Yeah, you can't do this. Rulebook page 14: "Players can never completely cut off one area of the scenario map from another, such that the area cannot be moved into without going through obstacles". drat, we completely missed that rule. Thanks for letting me know. It isn't even the only thing we got wrong. We initially played like 5 scenarios thinking that drawing a "Miss" also nullified any other abilities the attack might have besides damage. Warden fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 15:56
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Warden posted:drat, we completely missed that rule. Thanks for letting me know.  You can still play a little tower defense game and set up a crazy maze through traps and whatnot, but you can't just trap the enemies. There needs to be a route. It doesn't have to be a good route, or a short route, just a route from every space to every other space.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:19
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Warden posted:It isn't even the only thing we got wrong. We initially played like 5 scenarios thinking that drawing a "Miss" also nullified any other abilities the attack might have besides damage. Don't worry, this happens to everyone who plays, it's a super dense game. I thought my group had everything down and it wasn't until a few dozen scenarios in that we learned we had gotten a few rules wrong (in our case it was Wounds not blocking healing the way Poison does, and also not getting rolling modifier bonuses when disadvantaged)
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Jul 16, 2020 16:22
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Guy A. Person posted:and also not getting rolling modifier bonuses when disadvantaged Hey, guess what I just learned we've also been doing wrong?  I went and read the rules closely, and we've been doing both Advantage and Disadvantage wrong with Rolling Modifiers. This is the last time I'll trust my friends to teach me the rules.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:41
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