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Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.


Sugartime Jones
Maybe a joint service achievement medal?

Agree its poorly written

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Beepity Boop
Nov 21, 2012

yay

The Article posted:

Cooper was deployed with the 41st Expeditionary ECS in support of Operation Freedom’s Sentinel and the Resolute Support mission at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan. During this period, he was injured due to a Vehicle-Borne Improvised Explosive Device attack while ensuring precision electronic attack support was provided to coalition forces throughout Afghanistan.

He got a bit blowed up, so naturally the commander wanted to talk about him fixing computers. I don't know if I'm being sarcastic or not.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

They fixed the description of the Purple Heart, but never added what the other medal is. I'm thinking it's an achievement medal. The ribbon looks like it has green in it but I think it's just the lighting or something.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

коммунизм хранится в яичках
Speaking of idiots: https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2020/07/the-littoral-combat-ship-and-the-folly-of-concurrency/

quote:

At the program’s inception, Navy leaders projected each ship would cost $220 million. To no one’s surprise, the costs more than doubled so that each of these ships cost taxpayers approximately $600 million to build.

...

Under the Navy’s current plans, the four Littoral Combat Ships will take their place in the mothball fleet on March 31, 2021. The Navy’s budgeteers decided the costs to retrofit these ships into something resembling a combat-ready configuration were too high. Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Michael Gilday said the upgrades would cost $2 billion over five years.

...

The Littoral Combat Ship program serves as a cautionary tale for the insidious Pentagon practice of concurrency: the overlap between weapon development and production. Just as consumers should test drive a car before buying it, the Pentagon should sail a fully developed ship before buying a bunch of them. Concurrency poses significant risks to the taxpayers. Weapons purchased before the development process is completed often require extensive modifications at great expense to incorporate design changes devised after testing. Sometimes, as in the case of the first four Littoral Combat Ships, the costs to modify underdeveloped weapons are so great that the effort is abandoned and the weapons become “concurrency orphans,” having never provided useful service. While the Navy leaders are right in their decision to decommission the four ships and to cancel the program, the taxpayers will be left with $2.4 billion worth of Littoral Combat Ship concurrency orphans.

But did they learn anything from this?

quote:

The Navy plans to make up for the smaller Littoral Combat Ship fleet by buying 20 new frigates. The ships themselves will be built by Fincantieri Marinette Marine and based on an existing Italian design, which will reduce some of the risks hazarded by the Littoral Combat Ship program. Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract to kit out the new frigates with their actual warfighting systems. In that contract, the Navy designated Lockheed Martin as the lead systems integrator for the frigate’s combat systems.

The Congressional Research Service has warned in the past that using a private-sector lead systems integrator cedes responsibilities normally carried out by the government to the contractor and reduces the program’s transparency. According to a 2010 Congressional Research Service report, “[Lead Systems Integrators] can have broad responsibility for executing their programs, and may perform some or all of the following functions: requirements generation; technology development; source selection; construction or modification work; procurement of systems or components from, and management of, supplier firms; testing; validation; and administration.” This arrangement creates potential conflicts of interest. The contractor could design requirements for the program tailored to its own products or by favoring vendors selected from the contractor’s own subsidiaries.

The Navy estimates the new frigate will cost $940 million per copy. The Government Accountability Office has warned that the program is already not following best practices by failing to confirm that estimate through an independent analysis. So while the new frigate may be an improvement over the Littoral Combat Ship on the conceptual level, it will likely be anything but a bargain for the taxpayers.

Of course not.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

They learned that, once again, no one will get fired for funneling billions of dollars for no actual result.

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Well - there are competing interests in the FFG program but to cover some of the main ones:

1) Get something worthwhile over the LCS
2) Get something as fast as possible

None of the weapon systems on the FFG program are new or bespoke for the ship. The LCS had basically, almost all new weapon systems outside of the 30mm gun and 57mm gun and I think the 57 was new to the US Navy at that time. The minesweeping package, the Non-line of sight missile system (guess where that went) were all concurrently developed. All of those have had hosed up problems and the Non-line of sight solution is now a hellfire that I think still isn't being fielded.

The Navy weighed the risk during the procurement to use a parent based design to help speed up the procurement and to use weapon and defensive systems already in use. The major thing that the FFG doesn't have is it's main radar, but, that's being developed for the Flight III Burke, a backfit option for Flight IIs, and for use on the next Ford carrier. So while they may gently caress up the radar, I doubt it will be because of the LCS replacement.

The main challenge with using a parent based design, is that it's a contractor provided estimate and my guess is getting a 3rd party audit of the costs opens up all sorts of legal issues due to proprietary company data. This isn't the case of the Navy designing a ship and putting it out to bid ala DDG-1000. Speaking of the Navy's other surface combatant initiative, check out that poo poo show. We now have a "stealth" DDG that's had all sorts of poo poo bolted onto it, plus 2 155 guns with no ammo. Aside from the VLS, all the weapon systems forward the bridge are essentially prop-guns. And, if we continue with a "traditional" procurement, let's check out the Ford - on the other hand, no, let's stay with this parent design for a second.

Additionally, the FFG is a fixed-price incentive contract which should help drive costs lower to the target set by the Navy. I think everyone expects the costs to be above the estimate, but, it's not starting off as a cost-plus contract and the weapon systems and other GFE are either existing or major programs of record (ESSM Block IIs, etc.)

So, given the resounding success of the DDG-1000, CVN Ford, and LCS, I'm cool with seeing if this parent based design strategy helps get a ship closer to build time and budget.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



TCD posted:

The main challenge with using a parent based design, is that it's a contractor provided estimate and my guess is getting a 3rd party audit of the costs opens up all sorts of legal issues due to proprietary company data.

Crap on that, if they want to score a trillion dollar contract they can open up. NDAs exist if that makes them feel better, but not getting an independent estimate on this procurement especially since its immediate predecessor went so far off the rails is ridiculous.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin


19 year old father who posts nothing but uniform pics, I'd probably want to go to war as well.

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010

Memento posted:



19 year old father who posts nothing but uniform pics, I'd probably want to go to war as well.

I remember being this monumentally stupid as a 19 yo Grunt.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.

:dukedog:
I remember talking to some guys at SWCS back in 2013 or so, when Syria started popping off, who were super stoked to get in there. I had to explain to them how loving stupid of an idea America getting involved in that conflict was.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

A Bad Poster posted:

I remember talking to some guys at SWCS back in 2013 or so, when Syria started popping off, who were super stoked to get in there. I had to explain to them how loving stupid of an idea America getting involved in that conflict was.

When you're told you're a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Jul 18, 2020

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006

TCD posted:

Well - there are competing interests in the FFG program but to cover some of the main ones:

1) Get something worthwhile over the LCS
2) Get something as fast as possible

None of the weapon systems on the FFG program are new or bespoke for the ship. The LCS had basically, almost all new weapon systems outside of the 30mm gun and 57mm gun and I think the 57 was new to the US Navy at that time. The minesweeping package, the Non-line of sight missile system (guess where that went) were all concurrently developed. All of those have had hosed up problems and the Non-line of sight solution is now a hellfire that I think still isn't being fielded.

The Navy weighed the risk during the procurement to use a parent based design to help speed up the procurement and to use weapon and defensive systems already in use. The major thing that the FFG doesn't have is it's main radar, but, that's being developed for the Flight III Burke, a backfit option for Flight IIs, and for use on the next Ford carrier. So while they may gently caress up the radar, I doubt it will be because of the LCS replacement.

The main challenge with using a parent based design, is that it's a contractor provided estimate and my guess is getting a 3rd party audit of the costs opens up all sorts of legal issues due to proprietary company data. This isn't the case of the Navy designing a ship and putting it out to bid ala DDG-1000. Speaking of the Navy's other surface combatant initiative, check out that poo poo show. We now have a "stealth" DDG that's had all sorts of poo poo bolted onto it, plus 2 155 guns with no ammo. Aside from the VLS, all the weapon systems forward the bridge are essentially prop-guns. And, if we continue with a "traditional" procurement, let's check out the Ford - on the other hand, no, let's stay with this parent design for a second.

Additionally, the FFG is a fixed-price incentive contract which should help drive costs lower to the target set by the Navy. I think everyone expects the costs to be above the estimate, but, it's not starting off as a cost-plus contract and the weapon systems and other GFE are either existing or major programs of record (ESSM Block IIs, etc.)

So, given the resounding success of the DDG-1000, CVN Ford, and LCS, I'm cool with seeing if this parent based design strategy helps get a ship closer to build time and budget.

Someone remember to quote this post in a couple years when the frigates are hellaciously over budget and behind schedule and just generally a total clusterfuck.

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


BIG HEADLINE posted:

When you're hammered, everything starts looking like something to nail.

Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 18, 2020

UP THE BUM NO BABY
Sep 1, 2011

by Hand Knit

Dick Burglar posted:

Someone remember to quote this post in a couple years when the frigates are hellaciously over budget and behind schedule and just generally a total clusterfuck.



TCD posted:

Well - there are competing interests in the FFG program but to cover some of the main ones:

1) Get something worthwhile over the LCS
2) Get something as fast as possible

None of the weapon systems on the FFG program are new or bespoke for the ship. The LCS had basically, almost all new weapon systems outside of the 30mm gun and 57mm gun and I think the 57 was new to the US Navy at that time. The minesweeping package, the Non-line of sight missile system (guess where that went) were all concurrently developed. All of those have had hosed up problems and the Non-line of sight solution is now a hellfire that I think still isn't being fielded.

The Navy weighed the risk during the procurement to use a parent based design to help speed up the procurement and to use weapon and defensive systems already in use. The major thing that the FFG doesn't have is it's main radar, but, that's being developed for the Flight III Burke, a backfit option for Flight IIs, and for use on the next Ford carrier. So while they may gently caress up the radar, I doubt it will be because of the LCS replacement.

The main challenge with using a parent based design, is that it's a contractor provided estimate and my guess is getting a 3rd party audit of the costs opens up all sorts of legal issues due to proprietary company data. This isn't the case of the Navy designing a ship and putting it out to bid ala DDG-1000. Speaking of the Navy's other surface combatant initiative, check out that poo poo show. We now have a "stealth" DDG that's had all sorts of poo poo bolted onto it, plus 2 155 guns with no ammo. Aside from the VLS, all the weapon systems forward the bridge are essentially prop-guns. And, if we continue with a "traditional" procurement, let's check out the Ford - on the other hand, no, let's stay with this parent design for a second.

Additionally, the FFG is a fixed-price incentive contract which should help drive costs lower to the target set by the Navy. I think everyone expects the costs to be above the estimate, but, it's not starting off as a cost-plus contract and the weapon systems and other GFE are either existing or major programs of record (ESSM Block IIs, etc.)

So, given the resounding success of the DDG-1000, CVN Ford, and LCS, I'm cool with seeing if this parent based design strategy helps get a ship closer to build time and budget.

ElMaligno
Dec 31, 2004

Be Gay!
Do Crime!

Vasectomies are good and cool.

Eugenics is bad, especially since it was done to Puerto Rico by the United States

quote:

Sterilization procedures and coercion
From beginning of the 1900s, U.S. and Puerto Rican governments espoused rhetoric connecting the poverty of Puerto Rico with overpopulation and the “hyper-fertility” of Puerto Ricans. Such rhetoric combined with eugenics ideology of reducing “population growth among a particular class or ethnic group because they are considered...a social burden,” was the philosophical basis for the 1937 birth control legislation enacted in Puerto Rico. A Puerto Rican Eugenics Board, modeled after a similar board in the United States, was created as part of the bill, and officially ordered ninety-seven involuntary sterilizations.

The legalization of sterilization was followed by a steady increase in the popularity of the procedure, both among the Puerto Rican population and among physicians working in Puerto Rico. Though sterilization could be performed on men and women, women were most likely to undergo the procedure. Sterilization was most frequently recommended by physicians because of a pervasive belief that Puerto Ricans and the poor were not intelligent enough to use other forms of contraception. Physicians and hospitals alike also implemented hospital policy to encourage sterilization, with some hospitals refusing to admit healthy pregnant women for delivery unless they consented to be sterilized. This has been best documented at Presbyterian Hospital, where the unofficial policy for a time was to refuse admittance for delivery to women who already had three living children unless she consented to sterilization.There is additional evidence that true informed consent was not obtained from patients before they underwent sterilization, if consent was solicited at all.

By 1949 a survey of Puerto Rican women found that 21% of women interviewed had been sterilized, with sterilizations being performed in 18% of all hospital births statewide as a routine post-partum procedure, with the sterilization operation performed before women left the hospitals after giving birth. As for the birth control clinics founded by Sunnen, the Puerto Rican Family Planning Association reported that around 8,000 women and 3,000 men had been sterilized in Sunnen's privately funded clinics. At one point, the levels of sterilization in Puerto Rico were so high that they alarmed the Joint Committee for Hospital Accreditation, who then demanded that Puerto Rican hospitals limit sterilizations to ten percent of all hospital deliveries in order to receive accreditation. The high popularity of sterilization continued into the 60s and 70s, during which the Puerto Rican government made the procedures available for free and reduced fees. The effects of the sterilization and contraception campaigns of the 1900s in Puerto Rico are still felt in Puerto Rican cultural history today.

My mom was sterilized after she had me.

Speaking of "Puerto Ricans being too poor and stupid" I present you Operation Bootstrap a very real operation made by the federal goverment and PR goverment in order to industrialize PR and make more jobs. Just read the "effects" portion for a "surprise".

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
https://twitter.com/MlYOTAKANO/status/1256263260556460032?s=20

ElMaligno
Dec 31, 2004

Be Gay!
Do Crime!


God I love this poo poo

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

👰Proč bychom se netěšili🥰když nám Pán Bůh🙌🏻zdraví dá💪?
I was listening to The Last Podcast on the Left today. They're doing a two-parter on Herbert Mullin, a schizophrenic serial killer I'd never heard of. They said that in 1972 he tried to join the Coast Guard but immediately failed the psych test because of the aforementioned schizophrenia. Disappointed but undeterred, he instead went to the Marines who accepted him with open arms (until he admitted that he had done drugs).

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

Scratch Monkey posted:

I was listening to The Last Podcast on the Left today. They're doing a two-parter on Herbert Mullin, a schizophrenic serial killer I'd never heard of. They said that in 1972 he tried to join the Coast Guard but immediately failed the psych test because of the aforementioned schizophrenia. Disappointed but undeterred, he instead went to the Marines who accepted him with open arms (until he admitted that he had done drugs).

Coast Guard kicked out genuine crazy person Bowe Bergdahl 3 weeks into boot camp for psych reasons.
Army was extremely happy to have him though

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Dick Burglar posted:

Someone remember to quote this post in a couple years when the frigates are hellaciously over budget and behind schedule and just generally a total clusterfuck.

It probably will be a clusterfuck. There are just a few programs that come to mind that haven't been dumpster fires in the past 2 decades.

And to quote myself

TCD posted:

I think everyone expects the costs to be above the estimate

The concept behind this procurement is that it should be less overbudget compared to the LCS and DDG-1000 programs and fielded/built faster. These are pretty low bars.

The DDG-1000 took 8ish years from funding to commission and was ~215% to 535% overbudget.
LCS-2 took 5 years from award to commission and was ~319% overbudget with a half functioning mission module. I think the mission modules were additional costs outside of the contract. Also - they want to decommission the LCS 1,2,3, and 4 now lol.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
When talking about "staying under budget," it helps when you are a private company that artificially inflates the initial budget estimate to begin with, then demands no one be able to see how the gently caress you came up with that number (that you pulled out of your rear end) because ~trade secrets~. That way, when you demand another $940 million per ship, it's only 100% over-budget, despite that cost being 427% of the original estimated budget for the LCS.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

canyoneer posted:

Coast Guard kicked out genuine crazy person Bowe Bergdahl 3 weeks into boot camp for psych reasons.
Army was extremely happy to have him though

The dude in my EMS agency I describe as having an “active shooter haircut” who was pulled over on a college campus with 4 questionably legal guns in his trunk openly mentions he was gonna join the army but failed the psych.




For some reason me yelling about that has not gotten any results. He even bought a bulletproof vest and wears it around despite being the reason a bunch of us have priced out bulletproof vests.

E:may look into red flag law stuff in NY for this guy. Everyone is super uncomfortable about him.

Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 19, 2020

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


My dad's buddy is still in and sent along this gem: MP went to Captain's Mast for being a Phantom Shitter, ND'd into the desk during salute.

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

That's amazing, and unfortunately easy to picture

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
...how do you ND during a salute? How are you even touching your weapon during a salute? Or are we talking about a "21 gun salute" style salute? :confused:

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
I could see it if he's saluting with a rifle. For some reason people move their finger to the trigger when they twist it.

Edit: Did he hit himself in the face with the barrel when it went off?

Edit2: Into a desk? Ok yeah nevermind.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 19, 2020

Sormus
Jul 24, 2007

PREVENT SPACE-AIDS
sanitize your lovebot
between users :roboluv:

Dick Burglar posted:

...how do you ND during a salute? How are you even touching your weapon during a salute?

With your left hand thru a hole in your pocket?

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

I imagine the idiot hit the weapon on his hip when cutting the salute, unless the prescribed method is to move the hand to the weapon for the salute. Either way, I can see it happening from pure stupidity and bad drill (lol).

I imagine he was 3-6 inches from the desk when reporting.

I think each service treats it differently, but depending on what you are armed with, and where, the salute is rendered in a different manner.

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender

Kith posted:

My dad's buddy is still in and sent along this gem: MP went to Captain's Mast for being a Phantom Shitter, ND'd into the desk during salute.

Why did he have a firearm at mast?

Edit before the rarely referenced trial by combat portion of the UCMJ.

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

Probably had dude come from post to mast with the intention of going straight back to post.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
I haven't ever had cause to question it but I assume there are clearing barrels on a naval ship?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

Memento posted:

I haven't ever had cause to question it but I assume there are clearing barrels on a naval ship?

Yes. MP implies that he wasn't in the navy, though. Navy cops are MAs. It would have to be a large ship for him to be armed underway. Small boys only have one MA typically and they're never armed.

brains
May 12, 2004

Kith posted:

My dad's buddy is still in and sent along this gem: MP went to Captain's Mast for being a Phantom Shitter, ND'd into the desk during salute.

at least he didn't poo poo on the desk, that would probably be admission of guilt.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless

PathAsc posted:

Probably had dude come from post to mast with the intention of going straight back to post.

I've never seen a mast where the mastee wasn't in a dress uniform. I'm assuming this is Navy, other services don't call it captain's mast, right?

I'm almost wondering if some wires got crossed in the story and the ND was from the MA who escorts the guy getting masted, not the guy himself. That still raises a lot of questions, but... simpler ones, at least.

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

Wingnut Ninja posted:

I've never seen a mast where the mastee wasn't in a dress uniform. I'm assuming this is Navy, other services don't call it captain's mast, right?

I'm almost wondering if some wires got crossed in the story and the ND was from the MA who escorts the guy getting masted, not the guy himself. That still raises a lot of questions, but... simpler ones, at least.

Our masts were in the uniform of the day

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


I got the story secondhand, so it wouldn't surprise me if something got garbled along the way - or it might be that he simplified details for my sake. Either way - it was a pistol, not a rifle.

I'm mostly concerned that I didn't have to explain "Phantom Shitter" at all.

dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

Kith posted:

I got the story secondhand, so it wouldn't surprise me if something got garbled along the way - or it might be that he simplified details for my sake. Either way - it was a pistol, not a rifle.

I'm mostly concerned that I didn't have to explain "Phantom Shitter" at all.

I figured Phantom Shitter is someone who shits in a public space and then beats feet for someone else to discover. We had it happen fairly often in the showers at DLI.

This made a hilarious mental picture for ND'ing into a desk, so I'm fairly sure I've got my definition wrong.

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

dscruffy1 posted:

I figured Phantom Shitter is someone who shits in a public space and then beats feet for someone else to discover. We had it happen fairly often in the showers at DLI.

This made a hilarious mental picture for ND'ing into a desk, so I'm fairly sure I've got my definition wrong.

No, you got it right

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

dscruffy1 posted:

I figured Phantom Shitter is someone who shits in a public space and then beats feet for someone else to discover. We had it happen fairly often in the showers at DLI.

This is the least surprising thing that's been posted in this thread for quite a while.

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dscruffy1
Nov 22, 2007

Look out!
Nap Ghost

Lemniscate Blue posted:

This is the least surprising thing that's been posted in this thread for quite a while.

I remember it being twice in the men's showers, once in the women's. The women's phantom shitter also drew on the walls with it.

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