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Arglebargle III posted:You can show a person exploding in gore and the death of a whole planet but you can't show a nipple haha what the hell even is this culture we live in. One nice thing about this comic is frequent outfit changes, so I don’t expect her braids to be permanent. I do agree that White Chain’s atomic eyeball Afro was some of the best hair ever depicted so I want fleshbody White Chain to have access to it. Maybe in the void she just has wings and eye hair? That would rule.
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Aug 8, 2020 17:56
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Tulip posted:He's either conflicted, irrational, or both.  Had to think about this one. Solomon, physically, can leave at any time. He won't, because to do so would leave Rayuba in the hands of his sons, who while they might actually have the collective ability to lead an empire, they lack the strength to protect it against the various combat monsters who would inevitably come along to play at conquering/pillaging said empire. But, Solomon doesn't have to do that. He could have, were he so inclined, prepared an heir. Someone who was a combat monster and could run a kingdom, thus letting Solomon leave. But he hasn't. Instead he has the Ring of Power, a tournament that entertains the public and produces little otherwise but mulch. In theory the tournament might find a monster who could and would claim the empire for their victory, said monster even might be good at running* the empire. But that wouldn't be enough, would it? It is all but certain that this theoretical victor would still be wanting in the eyes of Solomon; leaving Solomon with the doubt that the one drop of blood was all the inheritor could manage at their best, leaving room for someone weaker than solomon yet stronger than the candidate to come in, roast rayuba, etc. *On a minor note, I suspect this is in part why the ring of power entrants had to fill so much paperwork: If they couldn't handle that, how could they be expected to run an empire? Which poses a rather significant problem. Solomon wants to leave, but fears that if he does will result in the pillaging/burning/obliteration of Rayuba round 2. Solomon could prepare an heir to leave the kingdom, but the only way for such a candidate to be truly worthy in solomons eyes would be for them to crush Solomon utterly, thereby proving themselves capable of holding the empire. Being crushed utterly, however, is rather inhibitive to going on a meandering journey or whatever solomon wants to be doing. Thus, the farce that is the ring of power; a tournament where the theoretical victor who follows the rules is found wanting by its creator and that the sort of person Solomon would want to win the tournament wouldn't have needed to participate in the first place. (Naturally, such a person has likely taken one look at this mess and decided to have nothing to do with it.)
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Aug 8, 2020 19:39
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Anyone want to take bets on Solomon snapping and reasoning himself into thinking that burning down his empire first means no one else can destroy it?
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Aug 8, 2020 19:51
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I bet Gog-Agog is very interested in this demonstration that it's possible to acquire a human body by punching Solomon David in the face.
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Aug 8, 2020 20:27
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Bongo Bill posted:I bet Gog-Agog is very interested in this demonstration that it's possible to acquire a human body by punching Solomon David in the face. Gog Agog has no shortage of human bodies
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Aug 8, 2020 20:47
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Mr. Lobe posted:Gog Agog has no shortage of human bodies If she could make effective use of those bodies, she'd feel no need to work so hard on sculpting faces out of worms.
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Aug 8, 2020 20:50
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Mr. Lobe posted:Gog Agog has no shortage of human bodies But she does have a shortage of punching Solomon David in the face.
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Aug 8, 2020 20:53
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Gog-Agog wants what everyone else has, all the time. Of course Gog-Agog is going to go spare when and if Solomon David expresses respect towards White Chain just after she managed to overcome her physical/metaphysical nature and become a new, beautiful human being. Everything Gog-Agog could want, including blazing and miraculous affirmation of the self, and it's someone else, right there, who wasn't even Gog's chosen champion/pal. White Chain even gets to be Allison's dear friend!
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Aug 8, 2020 21:05
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Arcanuse posted:
Solomon lived through the chaos and death of a demiurge conquerer. He gave his life to becoming such that none would be able to do that to his people ever again. In doing so he became a tyrant and created a society that provided and protected its people with him as the backdrop against which all aggression would halt. In doing so, he made a perfect prison for himself where none could threaten him and as proxy his people. He would long for a self sustaining populace but due to how the world works one must be strong enough to maintain cohesion and act as said bulwark. He may be vain and authoritarian but I feel like his intentions are valid.
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Aug 8, 2020 21:18
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Arcanuse posted:
Or he could just separate the two tasks, and prepare on one side an elite cadre of administrators tasked with leading the empire, and on the other side an elite cadre of kung fu warriors tasked with defending the empire against threats. If you look at modern democracies, you'll find out that the tasks of "ruling" and "defending" are usually kept strictly separate, with the military not allowed to exert political power. And like he could also go in King Under The Mountain mode, leave but give a way for his successors to call upon him to return in the empire's hour of need. He doesn't need to be Rayuba's reigning emperor to keep its citizens safe from would-be conquerors.
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Aug 8, 2020 21:33
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All Solomon would have to do to create a worthy successor is actually teach someone ki rata. His power is so vast, and he's so competent, there's no way that actually finding/training someone to run and protect the empire is the problem. It's that he doesn't want to give up on his power. This whole tournament is an absurd, elaborate farce. Just another way for him to show off his superiority, while also maintaining the lie to himself that he wants to find a successor and leave to pursue Royalty.
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Aug 8, 2020 22:49
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Begemot posted:All Solomon would have to do to create a worthy successor is actually teach someone ki rata. He did it all on his own, only someone who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps can be worthy.
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Aug 8, 2020 23:26
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nimby posted:He did it all on his own, only someone who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps can be worthy. No he didn’t He did punish the pacifists who taught him but refused to take direct action though
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Aug 9, 2020 00:21
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I mean ultimately Solomon is self-deceiving, because he can’t imagine separating martial power from rulership or societal governance. He can’t stop imagining a demiurge walking up and pasting everyone who preaches peace and good governance, because that’s what his life was like and it’s what he’s been - he’s terrified of another Solomon David but also believes only another Solomon David can rule. Ultimately he’s wrong, and his intentions are deeply interwoven with his trauma and pride. But we can see how he got here from a sympathetic backstory, same as Mottom.
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Aug 9, 2020 01:03
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Victis posted:No he didn’t I think that post was being a bit Ironic. Though Solomon would absolutely consider himself to be a self made man despite being taught Ki Rata
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Aug 9, 2020 01:18
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I mean he sought out and learned an extremely dangerous martial art all on his own, anyone who will be his successor clearly needs to have done so as well. That person will of course be a benevolent leader like all practitioners of dangerous martial arts, and not a ruthless killer, oh no.
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Aug 9, 2020 02:21
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Dave is definitely at his most vulnerable - in my experience, that's what it means when an extremely smug and fast-moving mammal suddenly has their gold rings fly everywhere
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Aug 9, 2020 03:11
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Eh, if Solomon Dave disappeared, would the people here be liberated? Allison & Co. are idealists who have demonstrated zero practical ideas on how to deal with any of this poo poo and everyone would get enslaved/eaten by the other Kings. It's only SD's presence and power that keeps his empire locked in stasis but also safe from literal actual horrors. Sure he kills a few hundred people every so often but they weren't fighting for their lives or freedom, they desired to rule Dave's what happens to a videogame protagonist ten thousand years after the game ends Victis fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Aug 9, 2020 |
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Aug 9, 2020 03:29
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shirts and skins posted:Dave is definitely at his most vulnerable - in my experience, that's what it means when an extremely smug and fast-moving mammal suddenly has their gold rings fly everywhere Z O N E
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Aug 9, 2020 03:31
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I mean he sought out and learned an extremely dangerous martial art all on his own, anyone who will be his successor clearly needs to have done so as well. That person will of course be a benevolent leader like all practitioners of dangerous martial arts, and not a ruthless killer, oh no. He talked the monks into teaching him, but it was hardly on his own. You can't just learn ki rata, someone has to teach it to you or you'll either fail to get the breathing thing right or just blow your own limbs off.
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Aug 9, 2020 03:39
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'he's not a self-made man, he was taught a martial art' is a ludicrous take. soldave sucks but he did legitimately go from 'stuck on a planet with no sun' to this via his own efforts you don't just sort of get the martial art for free because someone is teaching it to you
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Aug 9, 2020 04:03
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Victis posted:Eh, if Solomon Dave disappeared, would the people here be liberated? Allison & Co. are idealists who have demonstrated zero practical ideas on how to deal with any of this poo poo and everyone would get enslaved/eaten by the other Kings. It's only SD's presence and power that keeps his empire locked in stasis but also safe from literal actual horrors. Nyave at least knows what's goin on 
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Aug 9, 2020 04:16
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Patware posted:'he's not a self-made man, he was taught a martial art' is a ludicrous take. soldave sucks but he did legitimately go from 'stuck on a planet with no sun' to this via his own efforts And by that logic, if he were to teach Ki Rata to someone (maybe his sons?) they wouldn't be getting it for free either. It's a fuckton of effort and hardship. But no, he needs to find some other random person he doesn't know that happens to be stronger than him, with no guarantee they'll be benevolent, just strong. It is a Bad Plan.
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Aug 9, 2020 04:52
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I just had a thought; what if we've got the wrong approach with Gog Agog. What if she doesn't go all devour worm, and upon seeing white chain transcend, gog agog learns and transcends herself. Destroying one of the demiurges without violence but causing incredible chaos as the balance is gone in an instant.
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Aug 9, 2020 04:52
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Joe Slowboat posted:Gog-Agog wants what everyone else has, all the time. Of course Gog-Agog is going to go spare when and if Solomon David expresses respect towards White Chain just after she managed to overcome her physical/metaphysical nature and become a new, beautiful human being. Gog-Ago wants to be everyone else, all the time. Anything and everything she does is pantomime to hide her true nature and get desperate unhappy people to willingly take a Worm.
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Aug 9, 2020 05:02
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Yeah like what would SolDave's plan be if Jagganoth showed up at a ring of power and said "hey, sign me up, I bet I can make the emperor bleed" Probably he'd try to apply some sort of technicality to prevent Jagganoth to entering, but if he got around that via whatever means, then... like, he's the one non-deity in the setting who we know to canonically, individually stronger than Solomon, and Solomon seems to know this also. the fact that the one criterion for taking care of solomon's empire is "be stronger than me" rather than "look like you'll be a better ruler than me" is just because Solomon doesn't want to face the fact that being the best fighter has no particular connection to being a good ruler and the fact that solomon's political legitimacy rests purely on his personal combat ability is a weakness of his regime, not a strength.
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Aug 9, 2020 06:14
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Jagganoth wouldn't turn up and declare anything. He'd wordlessly obliterate Davey and his empire, likely with an army of thorn knights and whatever else he's been working on in the background. If not with raw brute power and whatever else Metatron might have given him.
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Aug 9, 2020 06:26
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First page, first question of the reams of entry questions is “Are you the god of more than 777,776 universes? Y/N”
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Aug 9, 2020 06:30
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Ledgem posted:I just had a thought; what if we've got the wrong approach with Gog Agog. What if she doesn't go all devour worm, and upon seeing white chain transcend, gog agog learns and transcends herself. Destroying one of the demiurges without violence but causing incredible chaos as the balance is gone in an instant. Gog Agog is a demiurge, therefore she is unable to achieve Royalty so of course she won't be able to replicate what White Chain just did.
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Aug 9, 2020 06:36
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DancingShade posted:Jagganoth wouldn't turn up and declare anything. He'd wordlessly obliterate Davey and his empire, likely with an army of thorn knights and whatever else he's been working on in the background. If not with raw brute power and whatever else Metatron might have given him. Y’know, Gog is so obviously the candidate for the obligatory end-of-book “antagonist makes a dynamic entrance and all hell breaks loose” moment that I now wonder if Abaddon is about to throw us a curveball and have Jagganoth decide to finally make his big power play... with Solomon as his first target.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:17
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TK-42-1 posted:First page, first question of the reams of entry questions is “Are you the god of more than 777,776 universes? Y/N” The Gog Rule
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Aug 9, 2020 07:22
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DancingShade posted:Jagganoth wouldn't turn up and declare anything. He'd wordlessly obliterate Davey and his empire, likely with an army of thorn knights and whatever else he's been working on in the background. If not with raw brute power and whatever else Metatron might have given him. We've never really seen Jagganoth's army and/or emissaries, but they're probably tough enough to kick around thorn knights. Destroying the entire multiverse includes taking them out as well.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:24
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I suspect Jagganoth vs. Solomon wouldn't be so one-sided. Now, Solomon can't necessarily win in the end, because Jagganoth is literally invulnerable by all accounts, but I would bet Solomon David can move faster than him and ring him out. Then it's a war, if Jagganoth wants a war, and not a duel. Jagganoth wouldn't have time for the entrance papers and the early fights anyways. Jagganoth may be stronger than the others, but I think if he thought he could murder his way through the Seven one by one easily like that, he'd be doing it. Mottom and Mammon have been at each others' throats and Universal War is back again, and Jagganoth is still biding his time. The Red God may be personally invulnerable, but he seems to be tactically sound enough to wait for things to get even more chaotic before starting his bid for divine suicide.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:39
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The other demiurges probably have the ability to contain him if he came after them. Sure, he could probably eventually break out of some wack-rear end crystal prison or whatever they put him in, but it's possible it could put him out of commission for enough time that it would slow down the pace of his conquest. Jagganoth is probably just being pragmatic.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:47
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What keeps Jaggy in line is the Pact of the Seven Part World. If he starts poo poo now, all six other Demiurges will immediately turn on him and that's costly. Even if he's completely invulnerable, all that really means is he can't die and they could still potentially combine their powers to imprison him in some form for a very long time. So far Allison's done a lot of work for him by putting two Demiurges to war with eachother, and what'll probably set up the final march to war in the next book (assumingly) is toppling or occupying two more in Solomon and Gog-Agog. Which leaves only Incubus, who is Jagganoth's pet, and Jadis. Who is a wee bit entombed in glass and distorted after perceiving the Shape of the Universe.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:52
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Worth noting that two of the Demiurges have explicitly backed Allison in the tournament, they just don't want to openly antagonize Solomon themselves.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:57
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I do wonder if Jadis will do anything of importance for the story (besides giving the name) or not. Not that she needs to, not every god is important as long as its known they are there
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Aug 9, 2020 07:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:What keeps Jaggy in line is the Pact of the Seven Part World. If he starts poo poo now, all six other Demiurges will immediately turn on him and that's costly. Even if he's completely invulnerable, all that really means is he can't die and they could still potentially combine their powers to imprison him in some form for a very long time. Incubus is not Jagganoth's pet - he's just after something very similar to Jagganoth, a new war where he can prove himself against the rest of the Seven. Incubus thinks he'll win, and we'll see. I will say that 'betting on the protagonist to win' is Incubus' move and honestly, that's probably going to pan out better than Jagganoth's plans. Then Incubus will lose to Allison too probably, but that is something I'm very excited for. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Aug 9, 2020 |
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Aug 9, 2020 08:02
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Brought To You By posted:Gog Agog is a demiurge, therefore she is unable to achieve Royalty so of course she won't be able to replicate what White Chain just did. I uh, I'm not sure that's a hard written rule? We just saw White Chain just transcend in a way nobody could have imagined. We also know that the ending of this is "something people won't like". And the whole point of the story seems to be breaking the cycle of stagnation and finding means around the perpetual violence the universe has. There's not enough time to address each demiurge with the same focus as Dave or Mottom. Gog's whole thing is envy, and she's a demiurge who just witnessed Royalty. Being a demiurge doesn't mean you can't grow it means you're stuck in this cycle of stagnation and I don't know about you but the the idea of a demiurge learning something and ceasing to be one, thanks to something the protagonists have done, reads to me like a huge way of bypassing the violence and fits the theming that's going on. Also, replicating is not the same as creating. White Chain created the path, why is someone who is unable to pave their own way forward unable to replicate that path? It's even in Gog's style to try and copy someone else and that copy might finally be something that helps her shed the shackles of being a demiurge. I dunno, a potential path of positivity for our pal that leads to a fucktonne of chaos in the wheel seems like a neat twist rather than "all the demiurges are going to stay fuckers forever until they are killed" which im not sure is meant to be the story. Violence is inescapable, but people growing seems to be the main theme.
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Aug 9, 2020 08:11
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World Famous W posted:I do wonder if Jadis will do anything of importance for the story (besides giving the name) or not. Not that she needs to, not every god is important as long as its known they are there I would guess that the final book will focus on Jadis and Jagganoth, just to round out the rogues' gallery.
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Aug 9, 2020 12:36
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