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eke out posted:i got to the point in the reread where they fight the Shaido for Cairhien and i'd basically forgotten about the whole sequence and it totally rules They’re going to need to give Mat a companion to talk to during his planned escape from the Aiel camp so we can hear Mat’s train of thought. I loved how Mat’s tactical superpowers clearly laid out what each step in the battle would be, and that he could either go do the obvious moves (that hardly anyone else saw) to avoid a mass slaughter at no small danger to himself, or slip away like a little baby.
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Aug 10, 2020 06:54
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Gnoman posted:The one doing the resurrecting was the Dark One. Asmodean was a traitor to the Dark One (training Rand suited DO's purposes, but Asmodean was straight up siding with Rand against the DO, albeit out of pragmatism). Even if he wasn't balefired, the DO had no reason to resurrect him. Lanfear aided Rand and wanted to replace the Creator. That’s like capital T treason and she got to come back. But I guess he was severed from the DO so maybe that’s the reason. Invalid Validation fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 12:25
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Democratic Pirate posted:They’re going to need to give Mat a companion to talk to during his planned escape from the Aiel camp so we can hear Mat’s train of thought. I loved how Mat’s tactical superpowers clearly laid out what each step in the battle would be, and that he could either go do the obvious moves (that hardly anyone else saw) to avoid a mass slaughter at no small danger to himself, or slip away like a little baby. i would also like the montage at the very end where it cuts forward and we learn Mat has repeatedly tried to run away from Cairhien, and each time Talmanes and the Band follow him and he smashes through unwinnable battles against Andoran troops by accident lol you're definitely right that his parts are so in his head that we need a way in to really get what's going on on TV
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Aug 10, 2020 13:27
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Invalid Validation posted:Lanfear aided Rand and wanted to replace the Creator. That’s like capital T treason and she got to come back. But I guess he was severed from the DO so maybe that’s the reason. Did the DO know that about her though? It's not omniscient is it?
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Aug 10, 2020 13:30
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Invalid Validation posted:Lanfear aided Rand and wanted to replace the Creator. That’s like capital T treason and she got to come back. But I guess he was severed from the DO so maybe that’s the reason. It's less that than he got balefired. The Dark One may well have resurrected him and put him in a mindtrap otherwise. (I'm pretty sure Rand chopped up Ishamael's links to the Dark One more than once, and that didn't seem to keep him from being resurrected)
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Aug 10, 2020 14:34
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:It's less that than he got balefired. The Dark One may well have resurrected him and put him in a mindtrap otherwise. My guess is that the difference is Rand killed Ishamael right after severing his bond in The Dragon Reborn. Ishamael came right home after his phone’s battery died, but it looks like Asmodean turned off his phone and stayed out all night. The Dark One doesn’t have time for cheaters.
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Aug 10, 2020 15:26
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I just don't think the Dark One is particularly discriminatory as long as he has access to the soul in question. He doesn't really care if the Chosen fight each other more than the Light, he doesn't really care what the Chosen think they're going to do with all that power and immortality, all he cares about is if the Chosen have sworn to him and allowed him an in. Asmodean, despite aligning with Rand to save his own skin, probably would've been resurrected and kept on a short leash by the mindtrap, like the others, but for the balefire. The Dark One probably always has an use for a sworn soul of that kind of power.
VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 15:41
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Was he balefired? I thought he was just stabbed or some poo poo.
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Aug 10, 2020 16:11
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Invalid Validation posted:Was he balefired? I thought he was just stabbed or some poo poo. It's never explicitly said. All anyone knows is that he died seconds after recognizing his killer, and no body was ever found. It could have been balefire, although considering that he died basically in a closet, it would have had to be an incredibly judicious application of balefire not to leave a mark.
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Aug 10, 2020 16:28
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's never explicitly said. All anyone knows is that he died seconds after recognizing his killer, and no body was ever found. Considering the whole palace was perforated with balefire repeatedly that day, I don't think it matters much.
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Aug 10, 2020 16:36
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I went through a ton of balefire-related questions in signing reports and: Brandon Sanderson on many occasions hints that Asmodean was balefired. But we do also have a conclusive edict on the effect of balefire on a soul--it is removed from its current weave on the Pattern but not permanently. Brandon Sanderson was actually under the impression that the effect was permanent until he joined the project and was informed otherwise. https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27balefire%27
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Aug 10, 2020 17:57
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I was a little annoyed at the balefire resurrections--permadeath should be permanent. this series doesn't kill enough people in general.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:06
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Ghislaineof YOSPOS posted:I was a little annoyed at the balefire resurrections--permadeath should be permanent. this series doesn't kill enough people in general. Yeah ok Elan Morin
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Aug 10, 2020 18:13
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Considering the whole palace was perforated with balefire repeatedly that day, I don't think it matters much. It mostly wasn't, I don't think: I'd have to go back and check, but I think the bulk of the fight happened in tel'aran'rhiod, which didn't affect the real world, and all of Rhavin's attacks within the palace were undone. Rand's wouldn't have been, but he wasn't cutting loose as much because of the presence of servants.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:13
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given how apparently easy balefire is to use i feel it's more fitting for the themes of the series if it's not some permanent thing. it already serves a loving wild use as-is. never forget the time rand literally just brings multiple people back to life with it
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Aug 10, 2020 18:27
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Johnny Joestar posted:given how apparently easy balefire is to use i feel it's more fitting for the themes of the series if it's not some permanent thing. it already serves a loving wild use as-is. never forget the time rand literally just brings multiple people back to life with it One of the craziest things about balefire is that Moiraine figured out how to do it from reading about it in a book.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:34
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Johnny Joestar posted:given how apparently easy balefire is to use i feel it's more fitting for the themes of the series if it's not some permanent thing. it already serves a loving wild use as-is. never forget the time rand literally just brings multiple people back to life with it That scene made me go reread the prologue of EotW.
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Aug 11, 2020 02:59
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:One of the craziest things about balefire is that Moiraine figured out how to do it from reading about it in a book. Its also really interesting how many "lost" weaves are known by like 2 sisters, and maybe one of them will pass it on as a secret before they croak.
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Aug 11, 2020 03:26
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The Glumslinger posted:Its also really interesting how many "lost" weaves are known by like 2 sisters, and maybe one of them will pass it on as a secret before they croak. It's mentioned a few times, and yeah it's a good little tidbit. Especially the "some sisters had odd looks as if maybe they already knew that one" when Moghedian's knowledge was being extracted.
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Aug 11, 2020 03:33
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Gnoman posted:True, but it specifically comes up with the Children of The Light, who know full well that Trollocs are real. It is what led to Perrin being declared a Darkfriend in the first book. Also Perrin kinda went berserk and murdered the poo poo out of a couple Whitecloaks after they killed his wolf friend(s), Trollocs didn't so much come up at first. E: Super beaten drat I didn't notice how many new posts there were.
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Aug 11, 2020 06:03
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Whitecloaks (this is a leak of a pic taken from back in January, so very likely our first glimpse of them with Perrin and Egwene)
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Aug 11, 2020 15:07
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I thought they were supposed to have a golden sunburst
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Aug 11, 2020 15:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I thought they were supposed to have a golden sunburst On plate
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Aug 11, 2020 15:17
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oh, my bad
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Aug 11, 2020 15:20
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There was some discussion a while back about "sick up" as a phrase from the American South that shows up in Randland. Noticed this on my listen-through recently:quote:He could remember as a boy hearing men laugh that when rain fell in sunshine the Dark One was beating Semirhage. Some of that laughter had been uneasy, though, and scrawny old Cenn Buie would always snarl that Semirhage would be smarting and angry after that, and come for small boys who did not keep out of their elders’ way. Wikipedia tells me it's got a few variations in German, but "the devil is beating his wife" is also used in the Southern US.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:34
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yeah as someone who lives in the south i kind of have basically no idea why that saying is even thing, but it is, and that passage stuck out to me as being kind of weird since it very directly ties itself to that
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Aug 11, 2020 15:38
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Anias posted:That scene made me go reread the prologue of EotW.  That would be a nice touch if it worked that way and given how heavily LTT drew on the source there at the end it's possible it was indeed balefire (the reading of whatever he did leaving a huge vacuum in the earth that caused the magma and such to erupt upwards certainly leans that way). However that then leads me to think that Ishamael went back and slaughtered whoever among LTT's kin got brought back in order to ensure that the "Kinslayer" reputation stuck - but maybe left one or two alive to tell the tale. He's definitely petty enough to do that sort of thing. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Whitecloaks I like it. The flared pauldron on the left shoulder is one of those vestigial design things that makes sense in the context of how Whitecloaks think of themselves. Vavrek posted:There was some discussion a while back about "sick up" as a phrase from the American South that shows up in Randland. Noticed this on my listen-through recently: Yeah that's a pretty common saying throughout the Southern US, even up into the Mid-Atlantic region and out west as well. I grew up hearing it quite a lot, but it's not really acceptable in common use anymore for obvious reason. The one time I used it around my wife she scolded me about it, which was surprising given that she's pretty much used to my quotidian vulgarity by now.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:20
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Mat Cauthon posted:
That's actually one of the very first theories ever posted when balefire was revealed. It was ultimately shot down by RJ, but really it's something that probably could work so it's one of those I choose to still half believe in. quote:I like it. The flared pauldron on the left shoulder is one of those vestigial design things that makes sense in the context of how Whitecloaks think of themselves. It looks like a mix between a LotR movie elf and a Jedi. If they're also hauling around golden sunburst plate armor for fights I'm totally down with this.
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Aug 11, 2020 16:44
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Their faces look photoshopped, it’s weirding me out.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:08
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Invalid Validation posted:Their faces look photoshopped, it’s weirding me out. That's just how Mantelar prescribed their appearances
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Aug 11, 2020 19:34
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Did anybody else here read Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover books? I like them quite a bit as a child and teen, and I just recalled that sworn brothers and sworn sisters were a thing there, too. And since MZB was an early feminist, I now remember that one character complained that sworn brothers are supposed to put their bond above all else, even their wives, while women were expected to let their bond decay to just friendship when they married. And Aiel adopting each other as first sisters very explicitly will not let a man come between them. I wonder if Robert Jordan had read the Darkover novels, too. They came out between 1960 and 1990.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:47
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MZB was a confirmed pedophile and child abuser. It's pretty well tainted her work beyond salvation.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:37
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rndmnmbr posted:MZB was a confirmed pedophile and child abuser. It's pretty well tainted her work beyond salvation. That's the first I heard of this. Looking it up, these fact came to light in 2014, long after I last read the books. And long after Robert Jordan died. So I'm sad to learn of this, but it has obviously no impact on my question. Edit: Also, I'm not sure about that taint. It's not like MBZ is alive to profit from any money somebody paid for any of her books now.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:49
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Torrannor posted:That's the first I heard of this. Looking it up, these fact came to light in 2014, long after I last read the books. And long after Robert Jordan died. So I'm sad to learn of this, but it has obviously no impact on my question. Her estate probably still gets their cut.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:53
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Her estate probably still gets their cut. Right, I didn't think about that. But wouldn't that include her daughter? Anyway, I'm certainly not here to defend a molester. My mother bought the books, and as I said, I read them as a teenager. I just recalled this one fact, and wondered whether Robert Jordan was influenced by something from her books. There were also the Free Amazons that could wear weapons, but had to refuse to marry anybody. Does that ring a bell with any Aiel institution? And I seem to recall that it was just such a Free Amazon that complained about sworn sisters not being taken as seriously as sworn brother. This all strikes me as bit too much of a coincidence to be so close to Maidens of the Spear.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:02
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rndmnmbr posted:MZB was a confirmed pedophile and child abuser. It's pretty well tainted her work beyond salvation. I read Mists of Avalon a few years back without knowing about this, and this is shockingly true upon review. The weird attitudes towards children and sexuality really stand-out. I typically prefer to seperate art and artist...but this is pretty relevant to her writing. edit: also....there is no doubt in my mind Jordan took influence from the book, and not just arthurian legend. the female/male gender wars especially stands out. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 13, 2020 |
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Aug 13, 2020 22:33
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In cheerier news, a tweet a friend showed me: https://twitter.com/cptjade/status/1294012685424775168
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Aug 14, 2020 14:47
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Hopefully the TV show will give more time to Moiraine and Lan. They’re both cool characters who fade into the background for a lot of the books as the adults of the crew. At the very least, more training moments like the one near the opening of TGH between Lan and Rand.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:16
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Lan probably knows most weapons, he can also train the hammer with Perrin, and the staff with Mat. Also I sooooo want to see a mock duel between Lan and Rhuarc, how amazing would that be?
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Aug 14, 2020 15:19
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Torrannor posted:Lan probably knows most weapons, he can also train the hammer with Perrin, and the staff with Mat. Also I sooooo want to see a mock duel between Lan and Rhuarc, how amazing would that be? I really hope that the actors playing Lan and Mat have comedic chops.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:39
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