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awesmoe posted:im just saying anyone who bets against two of his best students and on some random dude he's literally never met before doesn't have a lot of confidence in his own teaching ability He knew Mat was going to win because he's so good at spotting fighters was my read on that scene. Or rather, he knew he'd teach them a lesson - he might have expected them to eventually win after taking a beating and gaining some humility. It just ended up being a harsher lesson than he anticipated.
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Aug 24, 2020 12:37
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Honestly it's no wonder the Aiel are so dangerous if no one in the wetlands is taught how to fight a spear.
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Aug 24, 2020 12:53
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mossyfisk posted:Honestly it's no wonder the Aiel are so dangerous if no one in the wetlands is taught how to fight a spear. Oh they absolutely are, it's just the fancy posh shitheads that fight with just a long sword.
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Aug 24, 2020 12:56
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It's also described that the Aiel immediately break into quarters and flank their enemies ruthlessly I can see this working particularly well against the kind of idiotic CHARGE THEM DOWN lords you see in the series
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Aug 24, 2020 13:06
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About Mat's luck, I think it's meant to be something won or traded from the Dark One (turning of the wheel etc etc). "The Dark One's Luck" comes up more than once, and it's thematically tied to other 'deal with the devil' stuff Mat does like the dagger and the aelfin.
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Aug 24, 2020 14:28
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mossyfisk posted:About Mat's luck, I think it's meant to be something won or traded from the Dark One Ol Shai'tan went down to Andor He was lookin' for a soul to steal He was in a bind 'Cause he was way behind Even though Time's a turning Wheel something something Trollocs on the mountain run boys run etc
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Aug 24, 2020 16:30
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Lord Awkward posted:Ol Shai'tan went down to Andor And get Nickelback to cover it
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Aug 24, 2020 16:46
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Lord Awkward posted:Ol Shai'tan went down to Andor Trollocs on the mountain, run boys run! Damodred's in the House of the Rising Sun Aiel in the Waste and wearing algode Warder does your witch fight? No, Child, No DarkHorse fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 16:46
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i dunno if 'the dark one's own luck' is meant to be something along those lines as much as it's just converting an already-existing saying that may or may not have it's origins in the south, like the whole thing about beating semirhage that was talked about a few pages back
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Aug 24, 2020 17:39
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I think I read a Jordan Q&A once where he says it's pretty literal in Mat's case, but I'm not certain.
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Aug 24, 2020 18:50
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mossyfisk posted:I think I read a Jordan Q&A once where he says it's pretty literal in Mat's case, but I'm not certain. IIRC it was in the sense that he has supernaturally good luck, yeah, but not in the sense that he literally got it as a boon from the Dark One.
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Aug 24, 2020 18:55
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:It's also described that the Aiel immediately break into quarters and flank their enemies ruthlessly It seemed to me that traditional Wetlander tactics excelled against people who also used traditional Wetlander tactics but completely fell apart when faced with innovation. The Aiel did it naturally because their home environment favored skirmishing formations that just disappeared anywhere the enemy brought their strength to bear. The Seanchan had similar large soldier block tactics but also had portable Damane siege weapons and Raken for mobility. And then there were the Great Generals, whose main skill was the ability to say "this isn't working, let's try something else." Worked great against the Trollocs though, the only issue there was stamina against horde tactics.
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Aug 24, 2020 21:23
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There's a mention that the Borderlanders were able to shut down the Aiel pretty effectively by adjusting tactics. Which makes a ton of sense - they're on the front lines of the war against the Shadow, while the rest of the "wetlanders" fight one another once every decade or so and that's it.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:14
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Yeah Jordan was definitely aware of the difference between "War as a state of life/survival" cultures vs. "War as a geopolitical solution with consequences foisted off on the masses" cultures. He romanticizes the former a bit much, but I suppose it's somewhat excusable in a fantasy world where those people are ACTUALLY fighting embodiments of evil. Whether or not writing about such a world is excusable is another can of worms.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:11
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unarmored light infantry who voluntarily close into melee combat with european-style heavy infantry without having disrupted them first have an extremely short life expectancy, desert super-warriors or not.
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Aug 25, 2020 09:26
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it's also a plot point that the aiel don't have any cav whatsoever, and i think they're consistently described as using short, non-recurved, horn bows without a wood core (??) so i dunno what they're expecting to actually do the disrupting, either. pure fighting spirit, i guess?
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Aug 25, 2020 09:38
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Reiterpallasch posted:unarmored light infantry who voluntarily close into melee combat with european-style heavy infantry without having disrupted them first have an extremely short life expectancy, desert super-warriors or not. i got the distinct impression that there were certain elite units that were heavy infantry, the rest were basically peasants pressed into service
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Aug 25, 2020 10:45
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It's a little hard to say for sure, because all the various nations in the world are pastiches of societies from different time periods. Tear, for example, seems to field an army still based around high medieval type warrior-aristocrat retinues, while the Cairheinian pike that Mat stumbles into commanding in Fires of Heaven are career fighting men straight out of the early modern era. There's a 200-year gap between the two systems, which is a little weird for countries that are right next to each other. Either way though, I don't think most of the armies we see are supposed to be on the level of peasant mobs--soldiers are usually depicted as having access to metalled armor of some sort, and pikes are very common infantry weapons. Either of those should make a head-on collision very bad for the Aiel. For that matter, Elayne's civil war chapters are constantly going on about the difference between the relatively small number of guards she has access to, the rather larger number of peasants-with-sharp-object-levies she has access to, and her awareness of why trying to substitute the latter for the former is a very bad idea.
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Aug 25, 2020 12:21
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I’m gonna hazard to guess it’s for ~flavor~
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Aug 25, 2020 14:18
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This was a page or two back but I also thought Matt's luck was tied to the dark one beyond "just an expression" because it started after the dagger incident.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:39
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Sab669 posted:This was a page or two back but I also thought Matt's luck was tied to the dark one beyond "just an expression" because it started after the dagger incident. The dagger was an artifact of a different sort of evil, though. And the thing is, Mat himself started after the dagger incident.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:43
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The dagger is like, anti dark one though. It's anti everything but itself.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:45
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But Shadar Logoth really likes treasure though.
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Aug 25, 2020 14:48
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Fair enough  I just wanted to chime in to say that I had the same interpretation as...that other poster whose name I can't remember 
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Aug 25, 2020 14:58
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I don't think the text really answers the "what is the source of Mat's luck" thing. His luck *starts* right after the Aes Sedai first zap him in the Tower, but that's also the first time we really get a scene with him where he isn't insane or playing second fiddle to another character. So it could be an after-effect of the dagger. That doesn't make a *lot* of sense because then we'd have expected the luck to start earlier, but it didn't -- we know this because it's mentioned that Mat and Hurin diced "back when Mat could talk" as the wagon is taking him to Tar Valon, but no mention is made of his being especially lucky during that trip. (It *could* have happened and been offscreen, but Mat is as surprised by his luck in Tar Valon that first night as anyone else is, maybe more). OTOH, we know Rand is *also* lucky, and that's due to his ta'veren nature. My *guess* is that Mat's luck is just a feature of him "leaning in" to his ta'veren nature. Rand talks in a few places about how if you accept the Wheel and move with it, rather than against, you get better results. Mat is the only ta'veren we see routinely *relying* on his luck. That gives the Wheel more chances to work in his favor, so his luck shows more.
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Aug 25, 2020 15:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My *guess* is that Mat's luck is just a feature of him "leaning in" to his ta'veren nature. Rand talks in a few places about how if you accept the Wheel and move with it, rather than against, you get better results. Mat is the only ta'veren we see routinely *relying* on his luck. That gives the Wheel more chances to work in his favor, so his luck shows more. Right, we get Mat's perspective on it where he loves to gamble and is extremely lucky when doing so, but manipulation of chance is basically the Wheel's main mechanic for forcing a certain weaving of the Pattern so it's usually him winning things he needs to get to the next step in what the Pattern has planned for him. He becomes sensitive to this ta'veren effect as the dice rolling in his head.
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Aug 25, 2020 15:12
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Invalid Validation posted:I’m gonna hazard to guess it’s for ~flavor~ It’s the fantasy Vietnam thing. The Ariel War was all about the lightly armed supposedly backwards but intensely dedicated “savages” owning the everloving poo poo out of the better supplied and “civilized” joint allied army who got unwillingly drawn into a conflict not of their own making through a series of intensely stupid political decisions.
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Aug 25, 2020 16:28
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man, i'd forgotten how good rand's conversation with nynaeve in the gathering storm is. the one where the compulsion is unraveled from that one kid's mind.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:45
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I always appreciated the dice in his head cause when it started you knew poo poo was gonna go down soon.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:51
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Reiterpallasch posted:
I think the pikes being so common was kind of a holdover from fighting Trollocs. Only the Borderlanders have done so recently, but that's what every army always had so that's what they keep using. Them being effective against non-Trollocs was just a bonus to most of the armies I'd assume. And the dice in Mat's head were fun, I just hated waiting for it. They always started at the end of a chapter and then you had to go through most of a book before they stopped.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:05
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Or the couple of times they'd just slam to a stop and nothing obvious is happening, those are always great.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:07
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It's not the sort of thing that would translate well to the medium of TV, though. I'm not sure how you would capture that. Would you zoom in on Mat's face periodically and play a loud rattling sound effect?
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Aug 25, 2020 18:46
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William Bear posted:It's not the sort of thing that would translate well to the medium of TV, though. I'm not sure how you would capture that. Recurring sound effect that cues when something interesting is about to happen. A little leitmotif. It's not something you'd play constantly, but instead cue it up at the relevant moments. The first example that pops into my head is the rattlesnake sound you get in What We Do in the Shadows any time Colin Robinson is draining someone.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:49
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ConfusedUs posted:Recurring sound effect that cues when something interesting is about to happen. A little leitmotif. It's not something you'd play constantly, but instead cue it up at the relevant moments. Good point. I guess it sounded sillier in my head.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:53
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When it's first introduced "as a thing that happens", maybe have Mat close his eyes and do like a mental image of dice getting rattled in a cup in one of his gambling sessions. Then you're good to just use the sound effect the rest of the time.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:55
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You can just like rub your temples and have others chime in about how they don't hear anything 
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Aug 25, 2020 19:16
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Yeah any of those would work, just don't use all of them together.
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Aug 25, 2020 19:19
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Honestly with how much time we spend in the characters heads, it might be better to just lean into it and go full Legion with psychedelic dance numbers in the mindscape. I may be alone in this, but I feel like the worst thing they could do with this show would be to tone down the weird taveren and magic stuff.
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Aug 25, 2020 19:24
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rand battles ishmael in the sky over falme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP13Vd4fIoY e: this has reminded me, Navid Negahban can play basically any male Forsaken
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Aug 25, 2020 19:29
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all of this is a moot point anyways since we can be assured that for the sake of brevity the show is going to combine rand, mat and perrin into a single character and just have the actors cast for mat and perrin represent rand in his past lives as an explanation for why he's able to be supernaturally lucky and talk to wolves along with being the dragon reborn.
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Aug 25, 2020 19:30
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