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I don't know what you all are being so negative about. All I saw was a bunch of drawings of happy dogs.
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Aug 28, 2020 11:01
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So does this mean all hybrids are a form of contract? Pochita gave Denji a favourite one because they were friends but I wonder what Bomb, Katana, and Arrow wanted. Especially Arrow since it seems that contract has been going for centuries. And even if this does break Denji's contract I can't imagine Pochita is going to be very happy with Makima. Hopefully he's regained some of his strength by now. I guess a fully powered Chainsaw would look like a wolf?
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Aug 28, 2020 11:08
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I just about screamed out loud when the shoe dropped. so Makima has a grudge against Denji for some reason and is getting off on keeping him trapped in a vicious cycle. Great. It's literal misery porn. Gwen fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 11:26
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i mean yeah, Fire Punch?
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Aug 28, 2020 11:44
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The entire plot being an excuse for misery wasn't a twist in Fire Punch. Also the best character in Fire Punch had agency when he died so  edit: to be clear I am not saying this is bad writing or anything, and it's clearly in service to a thematic goal. Gwen fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 11:57
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Aug 28, 2020 11:58
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That’s pretty messed up, which is par for the course. So technically it’s not really that surprising. I can’t wait to see where we’re going now
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Aug 28, 2020 12:19
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Sadness overload 
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Aug 28, 2020 12:23
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For some reason I kinda feel like Makima is also talking to the reader there and I can put my finger on why. Also I have no idea where this is going anymore. This is almost too much of a bummer to keep up with... Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 12:27
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...Huh. Huh. I was really thinking this would be the end of the road. But... Huh. I admit it. I thought this was going to be the horrible reveal that snapped everything into context, that ripped away the last veil. And... well, the door is open, and some questions were answered, but... Well, first off it doesn't say why Makima's doing all this. It's a lot of song and dance to punish one teenager for patricide in self defense. It also doesn't settle why everyone else was after the chainsaw. Sure, that's all getting settled later, I'm sure. But it's still an open question for the moment. It's also interesting that Makima's stated reason was moral.That she was repaying Denji for his sins. I'll want so see the proper translation, but even aside from the religious symbolism... it's interesting, especially since the look on Makima's face is much less "righteous judgement" and much more "So, just seeing if I can break this contract, because that would be hilarious..." It also kinda fits with her general attitude towards innocent people getting killed throughout the series, including Aki. That "sucks, what can you do, moving on" approach combined with her more vicious attitude towards Quanxi and other 'guilty' people kind of goes with her caring about Denji's father's death, at least so far as squaring the scales. (It also is an alternate explanation for why she was less vicious to Reze than to Quanxi if we want to ignore the comparisons to how each of them killed Denji. Reze only killed who she had to for her job. Quanxi's harem drove innocent people insane for fun.) But let's shove all that aside for a moment. There's still something... odd about Makima. And I don't mean the whole devil thing, or how she let Denji build himself up just to get torn apart as a side project that's both low value enough to let him go off with Reze and important enough to actually put her rear end on the line to save him. I'm not even talking about the theater. I'm talking about the first chapter. That first scene Denji and Makima had together. She didn't know his past then. She didn't even know he was human. But when he refused her orders, she held him tight and smiled. There's something here that Makima hasn't said. And I'm curious what. Of course, if Makima's really trying to break the contract, she just hosed up. Poochita didn't ask Denji to live a normal life. That's what Denji wanted for Poochita. All Poochita wanted was for Denji to show him his dreams. And as one of Chainsaw Man's fellow Jump serieses pointed out, people's dreams don't end.
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Aug 28, 2020 12:28
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Upon careful review of the evidence I think Makima is bad.
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Aug 28, 2020 13:01
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So there's been some contention on the wording for the kind of devil Makima is. Is it possible that she's a devil of judging authority more than control? That would make more sense in this context. Does the word in Japanese have that sort of nuance? Edit: ACDAB all cop devils are bastards
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Aug 28, 2020 13:59
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I have no words.
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Aug 28, 2020 14:22
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RatHat posted:So does this mean all hybrids are a form of contract? Pochita gave Denji a favourite one because they were friends but I wonder what Bomb, Katana, and Arrow wanted. Especially Arrow since it seems that contract has been going for centuries. wasn't it implied a while ago that the existence of Devils in the human world was relatively recent?
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Aug 28, 2020 14:43
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Mulderman posted:I have no words. and I must scream
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Aug 28, 2020 15:30
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Mulderman posted:I have no words.
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Aug 28, 2020 16:03
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I assume there's some goal here more than just punishing Denji since the body count is pretty high for all this just to screw with a kid because he killed someone as unimportant as his dad. At least we don't have to theorize about Makima anymore and she's just evil.
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Aug 28, 2020 16:23
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Makima is Pinhead. I get everything now.
Grouchio fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 16:44
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It doesn't seem like it's punishment. Her line about wondering how to break his contract makes me feel like that's her goal. Like all the misery and manipulation is towards the goal of breaking the contract. I want to know why the chainsaw devil is such a big deal. I didn't realize until people mentioned it that this dude did Fire Punch. It's fits and I feel bad.
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Aug 28, 2020 16:46
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firrup posted:
If Makima's true objective is to rip Pochita from Denji's body, then destroying Denji's dreams kinda fits, it would make the terms of Denji's contract null and void if there are no dreams for Pochita to see
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Aug 28, 2020 16:54
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firrup posted:
Yeah I assumed her bringing up his dad's death is another way to guilt him into breaking his contract. I assume she wants the contract broken so she can get to chainsaw directly chiasaur11 posted:
Well, we don't know this for certain, now do we? I always thought it was very suspicious that Makima herself showed up to deal with some random devil in a warehouse. If she really wanted to kill it, we know she could have done so remotely. I think she either had coincidentally came for Denji / Pochita that night and saw they had merged, or she knew they merged together (she has eyes everywhere after all) and then came to get him. As for why she wants to nullify it in the first place, it's probably the same reason why all the other devils want chainsaw. Which isn't exactly clear, I'm guessing maybe they want to eat his heart to gain his power or something. I could see Makima maybe wanting to control chainsaw directly? CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 28, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 17:07
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That's dumb. That's it??
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Aug 28, 2020 18:05
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I hope Denji snaps and can show Pochita his dreams of revenge.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:10
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CodfishCartographer posted:
People say that, but "hunt down random Devils in the middle of nowhere" was basically Makima's job description before she found Denji, and the Zombie Devil is something where she's the obvious choice. (Non-human, no chance of infection) Himeno even commented on how weird it was that she was spending so much time around Tokyo at the party. What's more, she genuinely seems surprised when she first meets Denji. Repeatedly surprised, even. Mildly surprised he's there (someone else even notices Denji first), shocked for a moment when he ignores her orders, and then mildly surprised again when he turns out to be human. And if you're bringing up remote kills, Makima met the people who she used for that power for the first time after the zombie devil incident, not before. I know this is supposed to be the big reveal... but I'm still feeling like there's something more waiting. Although this does further confirm Makima's horrible sense of humor.
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Aug 28, 2020 21:59
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goblin week posted:That's dumb. That's it??
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Aug 28, 2020 22:06
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Could be fun if Pochita turns out to be the real main character and we follow it's story after the contract unravels
Meadowhill fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 28, 2020 23:07
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Meadowhill posted:Could be fun if Pochita turns out to be the real main character and we follow it's story after the contract unravels I disagree. Its not fun if a thing that has had like maybe 10 panels of page time across 80 chapters suddenly becomes the main character. Fujimoto is already pushing it nuking most of the cast, so I'm really curious whats gonna happen going forward. I don't think its going to be unending misery like Makima suggests, because Denji is gonna do something about it hopefully, but I wanna see some poo poo in the next few chapters that indicates where this is actually going.
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Aug 28, 2020 23:10
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Jerkface posted:I disagree. Its not fun if a thing that has had like maybe 10 panels of page time across 80 chapters suddenly becomes the main character. Fujimoto is already pushing it nuking most of the cast, so I'm really curious whats gonna happen going forward. I don't think its going to be unending misery like Makima suggests, because Denji is gonna do something about it hopefully, but I wanna see some poo poo in the next few chapters that indicates where this is actually going. Unending Misery and death is where it is going.
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Aug 28, 2020 23:30
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah this was kind of stupid but if this is arc 1 of 3 I think we're just fleshing out motivations here. Yeah this doesn't feel very endgame to me. Denji getting away and trying to start a new life is in the cards I hoping for Makima to get loopholed by Denji's actual contract
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Aug 28, 2020 23:40
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Hamelekim posted:Unending Misery and death is where it is going. But when we choose to immerse ourselves in that same hell willingly... We can see something beyond it... It might even be hope. Or in the end just a hell of another making.
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Aug 28, 2020 23:47
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Denji's first mistake was leaving the dumpster.
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Aug 29, 2020 06:28
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Jerkface posted:I disagree. Its not fun if a thing that has had like maybe 10 panels of page time across 80 chapters suddenly becomes the main character. Fujimoto is already pushing it nuking most of the cast, so I'm really curious whats gonna happen going forward. I don't think its going to be unending misery like Makima suggests, because Denji is gonna do something about it hopefully, but I wanna see some poo poo in the next few chapters that indicates where this is actually going. There's no way this story about devilmen could be relentlessly dark!
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Aug 29, 2020 07:21
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Acerbatus posted:There's no way this story about devilmen could be relentlessly dark! Dark is fine, Berserk is one of my favs, but Guts still fights through it y'know? I dont wanna see 80 more chapters of Denji just being immiserated by Makima for the apparent sin of killing his father in self defense lol. Also Fujimoto is very skilled, so all the secondary cast was great, so I don't like them being gone. I want more powy!!
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Aug 29, 2020 08:47
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maybe denji has to go to hell somehow and that’s where the entire drat cast is? Everybody loving died in about a 10 chapters run
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Aug 29, 2020 09:28
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Power was a cat sympathiser and and was dealt with accordingly.
TheKirbs fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 14:40
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Based on the authors previous work with Fire Punch, I can only see this series get darker and more depressing
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Aug 29, 2020 14:50
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Kind of wish I hadn't started this amazing manga. At least I know I can still feel.
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Aug 29, 2020 17:36
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Eustace posted:Based on the authors previous work with Fire Punch, I can only see this series get darker and more depressing yeah in fire punch it was explicitly in the moments when the protagonist self actualized and tried to aggressively solve problems that things would take an even bigger turn to the dark and depressing i could be wrong, but i would bet when denji does come to his senses things will only get worse
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Aug 30, 2020 01:24
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:yeah in fire punch it was explicitly in the moments when the protagonist self actualized and tried to aggressively solve problems that things would take an even bigger turn to the dark and depressing Legit do not see how things could get worse for him.
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Aug 30, 2020 01:26
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I Am Fowl posted:Legit do not see how things could get worse for him. This shows a painful lack of creativity. That said, Fire Punch's patterns don't seem the same as Chainsaw Man's. Let's look at the moments when things got better for Denji. The first thing that was even remotely good in his miserable life was Poochita, his best friend. And there, Denji took the initiative. It's not the only time, either. Killing his bosses, trying to feel some boobs, actually going out with Makima... when Denji's chosen to go after things, he gets some scrapes, but he generally comes out in better shape than when he came in. Even in the Reze arc, his decision to let her go avoided a pain he didn't want to live with, made her fall for him, and the heartbreak at the end was a quick patch job. Meanwhile, this hell of an arc has all came after Denji refused to self-actualize. Through the Assassin arc, Denji kept chasing his dreams, and managed to thrive through the poo poo that dragged everyone else down. But after, he took Quanxi's philosophy to heart, and embraced ignorance as bliss, first symbolized by refusing to open the door, and climaxing (so far) in delegating his free will to Makima's discretion. Denji's attempts to grow up have been harsh and awkward, but he tends to come up grinning. Denji's current attempts to abandon his growth and stop chasing his dreams for a lower level of happiness has been a nightmare. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 30, 2020 |
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Aug 30, 2020 01:45
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