|
i did the "immediately from one into the other" thing and enjoyed it. it always seemed odd to me that people didn't find the light-heartedness refreshing after the clusterfuck that is the end of zeta killing or maiming a bunch of people you liked.
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 19:46 |
|
|
Early ZZ also has a stretch where you get to hear Mashymre's VA say the suit name "Hamma Hamma" a lot, which is the best thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 17:07
|
|
|
I don't have anything against the comedy itself, if it were in a separate continuity or set in a way that it didn't involve the characters from Zeta I think I'd be fine with it. Maybe it will grow on me as I go through it. I liked Judau and co., I didn't like the show using the cast of Zeta as the boot of all the comedy when I had just seen them go through something incredibly traumatic and harrowing followed by ZZ going "wouldn't it be funny if Bright and crew gets oranges thrown at them and then Yazan straight up kills one of their crew, then Judau goofily carts off the Zeta Gundam". I'm interested in Neo Zeon and I like Haman so knowing she's involved in the plot is encouraging. I just can't abide too much grinding down of characters I saw established over 40 episodes and I've heard it happens more. But I'll get through it eventually and maybe coming out on the other end will have better perspective. Zodack fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
Something the Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast has lingered on in their Double Zeta episodes is the importance of the name of Judau's home colony of Shangri La and the seven or eight episodes spent there. Naming a deeply dysfunctional space colony after a literary utopia gets at the heart of UC Gundam's vision of space colonization. The goofy comedic tone is jarring coming off of Zeta's finale, but the details of the setting ring true to what's come before.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:Is Gundam wing the only Gundam series where the second op isn't a downgrade I actually like Wing's first op more, but the second is still very good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 03:33
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:Is Gundam wing the only Gundam series where the second op isn't a downgrade Turn A Gundam
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 03:49
|
|
|
only good part of zz is when they are on earth. Before then and then after when the return to space is all bad tbqh
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 04:55
|
|
|
 thank u lieutenant harry
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 09:35
|
|
|
tsob posted:
I know this is a good way to start a war, but I'm going to say that IBO is much better than G-Reco, and from what I've seen, a stronger show than Re:Rise or even the original Build Fighters. To focus on the show that's closest (in being a regular Gundam instead of about model kits or VRMMO players saving dog aliens) G-Reco's got interesting themes, but it doesn't connect them to its narrative well. For example, it has everyone be military incompetents, like in Turn A. Well and good, fits with its commentary on Japanese politics. But then it says that Ameria has been at war in at least moderate-intensity conflict for over a decade, using Mobile Suits, with extensive RnD. They should have at least some institutional knowledge built up, if only "have a brig" or "people die when they are killed". You know, Turn A Ameria levels of comic relief incompetence. (Or Carta in IBO) Instead, nobody seems to even care when their friends die most of the time. Similarly, while the mech designs are fun and the fights can get creative, they're mostly pointless, just time filling in the middle of an episode with no real impact on the plot. Meanwhile, IBO uses fights to conclude mini-arcs, and spreads them out so you can remember them rather than treating them as repeats. G-Reco also falls into "Walls of beams" by the end, and none of the characters feel like their final positions are drawn from their personalities rather than the whims of the plot. (Which is especially odd given how well Turn A Gundam did with that stuff.) Iron Blooded Orphans is one of the best Gundam shows. G-Reco is interesting, and I hope the films work out to get the series to function as intended, but in the show, it just doesn't come together.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 11:17
|
|
|
I wanted to like G-Reco and it had some nice individual moments and scenes (the world is not square, human bombs take 2, OH MY SU-CORD, every scene with Klim Nick and Mick Jack, etc.) but it falls really flat for me. I'd probably like it a lot more if Bellri was a remotely engaging protagonist and if the G-Self's powerups had any kind of plot integration instead of just... Bellri getting a new pack/weapon because he has to win, which we will never see again. Like it has a really good supporting cast but most of them don't do anything, spend half the show being absent, or never accomplish anything because god forbid the sheltered protagonist actually experiences failure. The suits are cool and the fights are really pretty but honestly I enjoyed Awakening of the Trailblazer's beamspam more, because at least I gave a poo poo there when Graham died and the colorful lights had some nice music. It doesn't help that most of what Tomino has to say in G-Reco is a repeat of what he already said in Turn A, only a lot more muddled with other themes that aren't as well executed. Like I get what he was going for with the "space elevators are unrealistic" thing and I really like fiction that shows the problems with believing in technological advancement as if it were a religion but he did not deliver that message at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 12:53
|
|
|
I don't really disagree with you about any of the G-Reco stuff. Or at least, I can't disagree with it, because I don't remember the show well enough to really argue any of the points since I haven't watched it since it aired. I thought the show had great production values, was really well animated with gorgeous art and great music and the setting was super interesting, but the pacing was hyper-compressed to fit 25 episodes (since Tomino didn't feel he could do a full 50 episodes anymore apparently) and a lot of the plot and character beats suffered because they couldn't be explored with any depth. Beyond this impressions, I don't really remember individual moments or anything too well. My opinion of Iron Blood Orphans is mostly an opinion on season one, since I've only watched a few episodes of season two, but for what it's worth my opinion is that IBO is a show with a really strong start, and has some of the best opening 4 or 5 episodes in Gundam but that the next 15 or so episodes in season one are kind of boring, the character beats are either corny or boring ("Hey, did you know I have a long lost brother?", "Oh hey, there he is"), the action isn't all that exciting when it does happen, the animation isn't anything noteworthy and that the last couple of episodes built up the finale decently enough but then the show undercut itself within the space of one episode by removing any threat Ein had, presumably to back-peddle and set up a second season. Overall I just didn't find it engaging or entertaining enough to bother with the second season. I'm aware I'm in the minority here with my opinion on IBO though. So yeah, hard disagree, but opinions/assholes and all that. Edit: I agree with Gimmickman's point that G-Reco felt like a lesser re-tread of Turn A's themes to a large degree, and that the action choreography wasn't great at times. The one that stands out to be me being the Yggdrasil mobile armour fight, because the Yggdrassil is this weird new unit that sends out a beam that can twist and grow in weird ways to hit dozens of units and "oh poo poo, how the gently caress do we fight that!" and the solution is just Bellri activating the G-Self's beam shields, flying up to the Yggdrassil with no tension or drama and then sticking a beam saber in it. It's so anti-climactic. The Yggdrassil and fight around it in a general sense isn't that much different to the Big Zam fight in 0079, because that too is this horrifying new mobile armour that is tearing through loads of ships without issue, and Amuro takes it out pretty quickly and easily once he does face it, but the Big Zam fight was lent emotion and weight by surrouding it with Mirai and Sleggar's relationship, as well as his death and just making it a greater part of the Battle for Solomon in general. The Yggdrassil fight is just one more fight in a show that already feels like it has too many, and there's nothing really emotive surrounding it. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Sep 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 12:54
|
|
|
For me G-reco is weird in that I feel like it places it would of been better if it was a 2 cour series and we got some Turn-A style slow build episode to give some depth to the story. And in other places I was very much like no, show being 26 episodes was the right length as if it was longer it'd just lean into the stuff that I'm not into
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
SatoshiMiwa posted:For me G-reco is weird in that I feel like it places it would of been better if it was a 2 cour series and we got some Turn-A style slow build episode to give some depth to the story. And in other places I was very much like no, show being 26 episodes was the right length as if it was longer it'd just lean into the stuff that I'm not into It is a 2 cour series
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 18:34
|
|
|
Droyer posted:It is a 2 cour series .... yeah not sure why I thought 26 episodes was 1 cour ..:P
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 18:45
|
|
|
On the other hand, G-Reco does not have Naze so it wins.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
just watch thunderbolt gundam
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:02
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:On the other hand, G-Reco does not have Naze so it wins. It also doesn't have dainsleifs, the worst thing I've ever seen in a piece of fiction from a dramatic storytelling perspective.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
Droyer posted:It also doesn't have dainsleifs, the worst thing I've ever seen in a piece of fiction from a dramatic storytelling perspective. Please explain why you don't like the Gundam crossbow?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:26
|
|
|
To throw my 2 cents in on the zeta vs double zeta thing: I watched all of the original gundama nd then zeta and I waited like a month to get to double zeta, seeing 08th ms team and IBO in between and........I fuckin hated ZZ and stopped after I think 13 episodes. THey'd just gotten in to space but man, it wasn't vibing with me at all. Maybe I'll go back to it though since y'all say it gets better. Turn A rules tho. I can't stop laughing at them using the gundam to rediscover long lost dark history technology like washing machines and blow dryers. It's so very absurd.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
Rabbi Tupac posted:Please explain why you don't like the Gundam crossbow? It's an unbeatable superweapon given to the antagonists halfway through the show. Its addition makes every fight completely arbitrary because the antagonists can just choose to win whenever they want. This proves true even at the end of the show where they do exactly that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:30
|
|
|
I think we just need to finally admit at this point that every Gundam is the worst game in the Final Fantasy series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Droyer posted:It's an unbeatable superweapon given to the antagonists halfway through the show. Its addition makes every fight completely arbitrary because the antagonists can just choose to win whenever they want. This proves true even at the end of the show where they do exactly that. I don't think you quite get dramatic narratives in fights. Also crossbow goes twang
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:38
|
|
|
Droyer posted:It's an unbeatable superweapon given to the antagonists halfway through the show. Its addition makes every fight completely arbitrary because the antagonists can just choose to win whenever they want. This proves true even at the end of the show where they do exactly that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:39
|
|
|
Rabbi Tupac posted:I don't think you quite get dramatic narratives in fights. They should have tension IMO. A protagonist that can't win has as little tension as a protagonist that can't lose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:40
|
|
|
I mean IBO is explicitly a show about a bunch of kids struggling against impossible odds
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:I mean IBO is explicitly a show about a bunch of kids struggling against impossible odds Yeah my issue isn't that Tekkadan lose (in fact they should have lost harder) my issue is that the antagonists have an instant win button they can use whenever they want.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:I mean IBO is explicitly a show about a bunch of kids struggling against impossible odds More relevantly IBO is a show about how noble ideals and imagery are useless in the face of pragmatism and even harmful on their own terms.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:55
|
|
|
Droyer posted:Yeah my issue isn't that Tekkadan lose (in fact they should have lost harder) my issue is that the antagonists have an instant win button they can use whenever they want. Like people still raise arms against the U.S. even though technically nukes could be launched against them at any time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 22:56
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I mean its not like that isn't true about real governments. It's almost like IBO was an allegory or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
Droyer posted:They should have tension IMO. A protagonist that can't win has as little tension as a protagonist that can't lose. But the protagonists almost did win? Shino's suicide charge missed by inches, and Dainsleifs weren't used against McGillis in his final battle. It was Gaelio who shut him down, both because of personal motives and because tagging one fast moving target is a lot harder than hitting large troop formations. Even the final battle had them not be enough, with Mika taking his pound of flesh and then some in a fight he started assuming he'd die at the end. Their use was also limited by political considerations, which IBO repeatedly shows as important in a fight, including the heroes only surviving in season 1 by playing the PR card.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I mean its not like that isn't true about real governments. Lots of media has nuke allegories (and sometimes actual nukes!) without making every fight completely arbitrary.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the Kimaris Vidar can fire diansleifs from its lance by docking the shield boosters but I can't recall much anything about IBO or if he did that against the Bael in the final fight or not
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:But the protagonists almost did win? Shino's suicide charge missed by inches, and Dainsleifs weren't used against McGillis in his final battle. It was Gaelio who shut him down, both because of personal motives and because tagging one fast moving target is a lot harder than hitting large troop formations. chiasaur11 posted:Their use was also limited by political considerations, which IBO repeatedly shows as important in a fight, including the heroes only surviving in season 1 by playing the PR card. I don't really think this is true. It was brought up shortly after the dainsleif's first introduction but it was discarded after their like second use and never mentioned again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
Droyer posted:But here's the thing: Why couldn't they have dainsleifed shiro 5 minutes before he made his suicide charge? Every fight is predicated on the idea that the villains don't use Dainsleif's ASAP when they have no reason not to. Also was that reason for not Dainsleifing Mcgillis ever given in the show or is that you justifying it? Not a gotcha or anything I genuinely don't remember. He did Dainsleif Shino about five minutes prior, as a matter of fact. Took out one of Flauros's arms when he took a hit for Ride, but the Gundam's agile enough to be a difficult target, and tough enough to keep functioning after a hit. After that, he used one of Tekkadan's ships as a shield to get close enough to take the shot. For McGillis, it's actually a combination of factors. One is that he got in the middle of enemy lines, so collateral would be a risk, one is that we repeatedly see ace pilots dodge Dainslief fire once they're aware it's in play (Julieta and Mika both make a note of having to dodge, and Shino got hit shoving Ride out of the way of a shot, meaning he had time to react.), and one is that Rustal's explicitly just letting things play out this time. As for politics, the first use of Dainsleif rounds is supposedly done in response to the targeted party having them, and Rustal has to spend a lot of favors to bury the incident, dooming JPT Trust's plans. The second was set up with a false flag operation. And the third needed extensive setup to ban all media attention and sell Mika as the devil of all the Mars, which bought Tekkadan time to run. They're obscenely powerful, yes. But they have limits.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:He did Dainsleif Shino about five minutes prior, as a matter of fact. Took out one of Flauros's arms when he took a hit for Ride, but the Gundam's agile enough to be a difficult target, and tough enough to keep functioning after a hit. After that, he used one of Tekkadan's ships as a shield to get close enough to take the shot. In that case I'll admit i misremembered a lot of stuff about the show, and as I have no desire to rewatch it I'll concede.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:40
|
|
|
Basically every single Gundam series has one hit kill ranged weapons and it doesn't automatically drain the tension out of every encounter. What is a beam rifle for 500, Alex?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
remember how the G Lucifer is probably the most advanced suit in any timeline and straight-up uses moonlight butterfly but like actually does nothing of importance whatsoever and is a 1500 cost in versus 2
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
Ramadu posted:Turn A rules tho. I can't stop laughing at them using the gundam to rediscover long lost dark history technology like washing machines and blow dryers. It's so very absurd. My favourite example of that, just because I didn't even notice it until I was going through an episode to make a WebM of something in it is during the episodes where Loran and Sochie are crossing the ocean they stop off to eat lunch, and you can see some random kids using the Turn A's foot as a slide in the background of the shot for a few seconds. It's adorable, but so quick you'd miss it or just forget it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
everythingWasBees posted:remember how the G Lucifer is probably the most advanced suit in any timeline and straight-up uses moonlight butterfly but like actually does nothing of importance whatsoever and is a 1500 cost in versus 2 Looking absolutely stylin' is definitely doing something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 19:46 |
|
|
everythingWasBees posted:remember how the G Lucifer is probably the most advanced suit in any timeline and straight-up uses moonlight butterfly but like actually does nothing of importance whatsoever and is a 1500 cost in versus 2 That's the one they let the cheerleader fly because they had more MS than they needed, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:52
|
|