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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Aggressive.

So I'm seeing all these panam pics w/ zero face masks or distancing or anything. Is bjj like Florida, just declaring victory because we're tired of this?

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Yuns posted:

On the passing side of thing I recommend everyone watch Rafa Mendes's competition videos. He is the most technical modern passer.
here i s one example of a breakdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKKGixMOlkw

Hey Yuns how you been? I'm still not getting any rolls in - pretty much just kickboxing for me lately. I'm watching the Mendes video right now but it's just making me want to grapple :smith:

One thing I'd like your thoughts on though is Ryan vs Diniz - a buddy was asking me what I thought tf Diniz's strategy there was, as he was just kinda crashing Ryan's guard and didn't seem to be bringing any meaningful techncial or tactical interventions to play. My best guess is that he was trying the grappling equivalent of turning it into a brawl and keep producing athletic scrambles instead of trying to meet Gordon's guard in a technical showdown. Were we missing something? Or is there some strategic value to the concept of "make it a brawl" in elite grappling?

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.

CommonShore posted:

One thing I'd like your thoughts on though is Ryan vs Diniz - a buddy was asking me what I thought tf Diniz's strategy there was, as he was just kinda crashing Ryan's guard and didn't seem to be bringing any meaningful techncial or tactical interventions to play. My best guess is that he was trying the grappling equivalent of turning it into a brawl and keep producing athletic scrambles instead of trying to meet Gordon's guard in a technical showdown. Were we missing something? Or is there some strategic value to the concept of "make it a brawl" in elite grappling?
I haven't seen the match as I don't have a Flo subscription but I'll watch it and get back to you. Hopefully I can do a detailed breakdown.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Xguard86 posted:

Aggressive.

So I'm seeing all these panam pics w/ zero face masks or distancing or anything. Is bjj like Florida, just declaring victory because we're tired of this?

Sorta feels like it yeah. ASJJF are registering and have events scheduled in Kapan and I think Korea not too far off. Im taking the next year off competitions since im starting grad school and have been having chronic knee pain the past 2 months.

Also I may, probably stupidly, end up making kids technique videos for my kids classes and that kinda has me excited as I used to love doing video production stuff since thats what my first job/industry was in in NYC.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Yuns posted:

I haven't seen the match as I don't have a Flo subscription but I'll watch it and get back to you. Hopefully I can do a detailed breakdown.

Please do. I don't have a flow sub either but I uh was walking along the internet and it fell off of the back of a truck and I happened to see it so I might not have it handy to review.

But if you'd rather move from specifics to theory... here's actually the underlying question - I've been reflecting that there's a ton of survivorship bias in BJJ analysis, namely that there's an intense focus on successful techniques. I think that there's a lot more for someone like me to learn from understanding why failed techniques didn't work. This would go beyond "because the opponent stopped them" since many successful techniques work because the opponent was unable to stop them or failed to stop them, and then it can become a question of "why did that escape fail" or "what could the losing person in that exchange have done differently." Not to mention that in a lot of cases elite grapplers' techniques work because they're athletic freakazoids with flexibility and endurance that I can't transfer over to my own game.

That particular match is just one that raised that specific topic lately for me in a convo with a bjj buddy. If you're in the mood to work through that topic with reference to whatever matches/examples I'd be interested to see your thoughts.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.

CommonShore posted:

Please do. I don't have a flow sub either but I uh was walking along the internet and it fell off of the back of a truck and I happened to see it so I might not have it handy to review.

But if you'd rather move from specifics to theory... here's actually the underlying question - I've been reflecting that there's a ton of survivorship bias in BJJ analysis, namely that there's an intense focus on successful techniques. I think that there's a lot more for someone like me to learn from understanding why failed techniques didn't work. This would go beyond "because the opponent stopped them" since many successful techniques work because the opponent was unable to stop them or failed to stop them, and then it can become a question of "why did that escape fail" or "what could the losing person in that exchange have done differently." Not to mention that in a lot of cases elite grapplers' techniques work because they're athletic freakazoids with flexibility and endurance that I can't transfer over to my own game.

That particular match is just one that raised that specific topic lately for me in a convo with a bjj buddy. If you're in the mood to work through that topic with reference to whatever matches/examples I'd be interested to see your thoughts.
Part of your perception is right and part of it is wrong. You should clearly understand and learn why something doesn't work so that you can understand why something works. Why is a particular technique taught but in competition another technique used. If you only see the end result you may never learn how and why we got there. I completely agree with you there.

The second point I highly disagree with is that "in a lot of cases elite grapplers' techniques work because they're athletic freakazoids with flexibility and endurance." This isn't true in my opinion. They may use athleticism and strength to make a good technique better but the best are all based in key fundamentals that are just as applicable to your game as theirs. They also look incredible fast and strong because they read better and faster and therefore can react before you even know what's going on. It's like a DB in football who reads the offensive play so well he can cheat toward the route and he looks super fast because he's already 10 yards in the right direction. In addition they seem super strong because they are but also because they are super efficient. I'll go over some technical aspects of the application of strength. How you can fake super strength. One off my defining lessons I was taught as a lower belt was one day when Igor Gracie told the class, (paraphrasing) "I'm not flexible at all. I look like I'm flexible because I know how to move my hips." I wish you'd come by and visit when COVID hell world is done because I swear we can help retool your game and how you think about BJJ.

Yuns fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 12, 2020

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Yuns posted:

Part of your perception is right and part of it is wrong. You should clearly understand and learn why something doesn't work so that you can understand why something works. Why is a particular technique taught but in competition another technique used. If you only see the end result you may never learn how and why we got there. I completely agree with you there.

The second point I highly disagree with is that "in a lot of cases elite grapplers' techniques work because they're athletic freakazoids with flexibility and endurance." This isn't true in my opinion. They may use athleticism and strength to make a good technique better but the best are all based in key fundamentals that are just as applicable to your game as theirs. They also look incredible fast and strong because they read better and faster and therefore can react before you even know what's going on. It's like a DB in football who reads the offensive play so well he can cheat toward the route and he looks super fast because he's already 10 yards in the right direction. In addition they seem super strong because they are but also because they are super efficient. I'll go over some technical aspects of the application of strength. How you can fake super strength. I wish you'd come by and visit when COVID hell world is done because I swear we can help retool your game and how you think about BJJ.

Yeah the athleticism bit was a glib after remark and point taken, though it's how I feel when watching the speed, flexibility, and reaction time on some of these people. Mind you I've had people go "wow you're strong/fast" to me after a roll, when really I was just using, as you said, a technique or two or successfully executing a trap, so I can see how that can scale with technique.

I'd love to come train with you guys some day and learn a thing or two or twenty, though right now my dream is just getting to roll with my buddies here again - we'll see how pandemics (and elections) go.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/ja2pvg/what_the_f/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014


Oof.

The owner is saying the guy has changed and has been getting the tattoos removed.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans
What's the cost of tattoo removal or just alteration compared to the $1500+ it costs to get a blue belt?

And if that's the tattoo that's not at the top of the list of poo poo to get taken care of then what is?

JaySB
Nov 16, 2006



ihop posted:

And if that's the tattoo that's not at the top of the list of poo poo to get taken care of then what is?

Probably ones that are in a much more visible location.

Tattoo removal also takes a lot of time.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
His gym should chip in the money for the probably 2 laser removal sessions it would take to make that tattoo barely visible anymore.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

The owner says the guy was worried it might show during the competition.

Ok, so you're spending your time/money removing the more visible ones, why wouldn't you just take a black sharpie and just color a black circle over it? At least for the tournament?

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

A guy I train with spent multiple years in prison, for theft and drugs and some violence. Got into fights inside, has a bunch of tattoos. No swastikas mind you, but they don't look friendly.

He's one of my favorite training partners. You couldn't find a nicer guy. His adolescent son trains with him. He went back to school and is now a professional, happily married with a bunch of kids.

Point is, some people really do change. I'm not inclined to internet dog pile some guy I don't even know; people say he's reformed, I'll take it at fever value.

That being said, yeah cover that poo poo up pronto.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Nothing better than the cognitive dissonance of a skinny IT-kid purple belt absolutely balling up the tatted up ex-con/marine/roughneck on his trial class.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Count Roland posted:

A guy I train with spent multiple years in prison, for theft and drugs and some violence. Got into fights inside, has a bunch of tattoos. No swastikas mind you, but they don't look friendly.

He's one of my favorite training partners. You couldn't find a nicer guy. His adolescent son trains with him. He went back to school and is now a professional, happily married with a bunch of kids.

Point is, some people really do change. I'm not inclined to internet dog pile some guy I don't even know; people say he's reformed, I'll take it at fever value.

That being said, yeah cover that poo poo up pronto.

It's also just incredibly dumb to go to a competition and not have it at least covered by a rashguard. Like, the other people there don't know you. I'm Jewish, if I was in a match and my opponent's jacket came loose and I saw they had a giant swastika tattoo I would be really upset and I doubt I would want to continue. I don't think "oh don't worry I only used to be a nazi" would be much comfort.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans
In summary: people with swastika tattoos are a land of contrasts.

JaySB
Nov 16, 2006



Mechafunkzilla posted:

It's also just incredibly dumb to go to a competition and not have it at least covered by a rashguard. Like, the other people there don't know you. I'm Jewish, if I was in a match and my opponent's jacket came loose and I saw they had a giant swastika tattoo I would be really upset and I doubt I would want to continue. I don't think "oh don't worry I only used to be a nazi" would be much comfort.

IBJJF doesn't allow rashguards

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004

It’s an outline swastika, those are easy to laser or cover up. The ones that are difficult to get rid of are the solid-block-of-colour ones.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

JaySB posted:

IBJJF doesn't allow rashguards

Do they allow visible swastika tattoos? Most competitions have some kind of rule around offensive attire.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 14, 2020

heeebrew
Sep 6, 2007

Weed smokin', joint tokin', fake Jew of the Weed thread

I'm Jewish and have been thinking about whether I would refuse to continue my match against someone with such a tattoo or say gently caress it and heel hook both legs, gently caress his taps. The tattoo should be an instant DQ and instant ban from future participation in competing. It makes ZERO sense that someone can afford $150-200/month in BJJ fees (plus fees for his wife and child allegedly) and pay to compete ($200 including IBJJF registration member card) and pay for gis and various other fees associated with training (gas for traveling to comp and/or to training) but can't afford to get the tattoos laser removed or AT LEAST covered up. I know MANY tattoo artists who are wiling to work with their clients or even perform FREE cover up for old racist or gang tattoos that are no longer representative of the individual's current life.


This is a no brainer. gently caress that guy. gently caress his instructor.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Totally unrelated to the neo nazi tattoo stuff I finally did a flow chart (sorta) for my kids class stuff. Anyone care to critique it etc?

The techniques are the ones the head instructor said were required as part of the curriculum.



Here's a more simplified/maybe easier to read flow chart than what I drew myself


Mekchu fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Oct 15, 2020

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

heeebrew posted:

It makes ZERO sense that someone can afford $150-200/month in BJJ fees (plus fees for his wife and child allegedly) and pay to compete ($200 including IBJJF registration member card) and pay for gis and various other fees associated with training (gas for traveling to comp and/or to training) but can't afford to get the tattoos laser removed or AT LEAST covered up. I know MANY tattoo artists who are wiling to work with their clients or even perform FREE cover up for old racist or gang tattoos that are no longer representative of the individual's current life.


This is a no brainer. gently caress that guy. gently caress his instructor.

Yeah i have to agree with this.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.
People are digging into this guys social media and he's still doing the parentheses around words to signify Jews thing. Also people bringing up him having a family as if it that proves he cannot be a white nationalist.

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003

heeebrew posted:

I'm Jewish and have been thinking about whether I would refuse to continue my match against someone with such a tattoo or say gently caress it and heel hook both legs, gently caress his taps. The tattoo should be an instant DQ and instant ban from future participation in competing. It makes ZERO sense that someone can afford $150-200/month in BJJ fees (plus fees for his wife and child allegedly) and pay to compete ($200 including IBJJF registration member card) and pay for gis and various other fees associated with training (gas for traveling to comp and/or to training) but can't afford to get the tattoos laser removed or AT LEAST covered up. I know MANY tattoo artists who are wiling to work with their clients or even perform FREE cover up for old racist or gang tattoos that are no longer representative of the individual's current life.


This is a no brainer. gently caress that guy. gently caress his instructor.

100% agree. The instructor sounds like he is half assing demanding a change in his student. I would work with him but he needs to be serious about getting rid of that poo poo.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


He'll probably be more serious now.

heeebrew
Sep 6, 2007

Weed smokin', joint tokin', fake Jew of the Weed thread

If you have a nazi (or other offensive tattoo), you don't need to cover it up with a sick tiger or a really cool dragon. Just cover that poo poo in black. gently caress it. Show the world that you divorced this part of your life.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.
i'm pretty sure there's multiple tattoo artists that cover up hate symbols free of charge

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003

heeebrew posted:

If you have a nazi (or other offensive tattoo), you don't need to cover it up with a sick tiger or a really cool dragon. Just cover that poo poo in black. gently caress it. Show the world that you divorced this part of your life.

The problem with covering it up with an animal is: now you've made what would otherwise be a cool animal tattoo, really lovely by hiding a swastika within the artwork.

It would probably be better just to get it removed IMO

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Ten minutes and some red ink. Voila! You have reversed yourself.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004

it’s really easy to turn a swastika into the windows 95 logo

Nestharken
Mar 23, 2006

The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

Tacos Al Pastor posted:

The problem with covering it up with an animal is: now you've made what would otherwise be a cool animal tattoo, really lovely by hiding a swastika within the artwork.

It would probably be better just to get it removed IMO

Nah, one of my friends is an artist who specializes in cover-ups, and I've seen plenty of their work. A good one makes it impossible to tell that it's even a cover-up, let alone what's underneath it.

And as mentioned, it's pretty standard in the industry for a lot of artists to do those kinds of jobs for a greatly reduced rate, if not free. I'm very suspicious of anyone with a swastika tattoo who puts removing it at the same "I'll get around to it eventually" priority as a door with squeaky hinges or something.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans
I met up with a friend yesterday and did some grip fighting, uchikomi and some light positional ground work. Its the first grappling I've done since March. There really is no way to prepare your body for this stuff is there? Maybe professional car-crashing? If I'd done any full sparring or taken a bunch of throws I think I'd be incapacitated today.

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003

ihop posted:

I met up with a friend yesterday and did some grip fighting, uchikomi and some light positional ground work. Its the first grappling I've done since March. There really is no way to prepare your body for this stuff is there? Maybe professional car-crashing? If I'd done any full sparring or taken a bunch of throws I think I'd be incapacitated today.

Not really. And you never know when an injury will strike, especially the older you get. Yesterday I was drilling knee on belly transitions and arm bars and i did something to the lower right side of my back, not sure if its a rib or muscle. Its part of the game.

duckdealer
Feb 28, 2011

My copy of the book Opening Closed Guard arrived today! Reading it now and I would highly recommend it to anyone in this thread with even a passing interest in history.

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003

duckdealer posted:

My copy of the book Opening Closed Guard arrived today! Reading it now and I would highly recommend it to anyone in this thread with even a passing interest in history.

Im grabbing a copy of this too. I thought the movie was supposed to be released by the end of summer(?). Covid probably messing everything up...

heeebrew
Sep 6, 2007

Weed smokin', joint tokin', fake Jew of the Weed thread

So one of my white belt private students dislocated his shoulder (not training with me at the time of injury) a month or so ago. He's planning to get surgery in December and wants to get some sessions in with me before then. I want to be extra cautious of not doing anything to put any sort of pressure on his shoulder at all. A few things I've considered going over with him that should be relatively safe:
-standing passing, stepping around opponents hip lines to knee on belly scenarios (no hands at all)
-one arm ankle locks on his good shoulder
-guard retention with just his legs
-triangles from closed guard
-SLX sweeps on his good side


What else? Any thoughts on the above that would be too risky? I want to make sure I do everything I can to not irritate his injury in anyway.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013

heeebrew posted:




What else? Any thoughts on the above that would be too risky? I want to make sure I do everything I can to not irritate his injury in anyway.

When I rolled a lot with my torn rotator cuff I did a lot of half-guard with my bad shoulder on the bottom and that kept it pretty safe. It was basically the only guard I could play relatively normally.

Also I did a lot of hip bumps, scissor sweeps, and kimuras from that same half/zguard position with my bad arm towards the bottom and I felt safe doing it that way, even with quite a bit of resistance.

You could also work on backtakes and lapel chokes like bow and arrows, most of those only need one strong hand to execute well enough in my experience.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

In case any of you are interested, I've made a thread for discussing potential new thread tags or updates to existing ones. Our current grappling one is... interesting? I don't know if you guys love it, hate it, or really don't care - but if you do, I'd be happy to hear suggestions for changes you might want made.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Oct 23, 2020

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Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003

heeebrew posted:

So one of my white belt private students dislocated his shoulder (not training with me at the time of injury) a month or so ago. He's planning to get surgery in December and wants to get some sessions in with me before then. I want to be extra cautious of not doing anything to put any sort of pressure on his shoulder at all. A few things I've considered going over with him that should be relatively safe:
-standing passing, stepping around opponents hip lines to knee on belly scenarios (no hands at all)
-one arm ankle locks on his good shoulder
-guard retention with just his legs
-triangles from closed guard
-SLX sweeps on his good side


What else? Any thoughts on the above that would be too risky? I want to make sure I do everything I can to not irritate his injury in anyway.

Knee on belly, reverse knee on belly, like we were going over :p

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