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CharlestonJew posted:considering the timeline of events we have here that's 100% impossible Oh, actually that one is easy. Adult Eri send them back to past to get help from AfO, who is long dead in the future, because he is the only one who can defeat Evil Deku from alternate timeline, who is conquering other dimensions and collecting OfAs from his other selves in a quest to become God. It's like you never read comics or something.
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Nov 2, 2020 17:20
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Rhonne posted:Skeptic is going to try and hack the cameras in order to broadcast this to the country only for him to get counter hacked by La Brava and then Gentle swoops in and saves everyone. 
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Nov 2, 2020 17:22
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Lt. Lizard posted:Oh, actually that one is easy. Adult Eri send them back to past to get help from AfO, who is long dead in the future, because he is the only one who can defeat Evil Deku from alternate timeline, who is conquering other dimensions and collecting OfAs from his other selves in a quest to become God. It's like you never read comics or something. Monoma is the time traveller AND traitor 🙄
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Nov 2, 2020 17:29
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Eri actually controlling time travel means some hilariously bizarre storylines for her parents, as well as random quirks just floating around in other timelines It's not how her power works but drat I'm chuckling thinking about it
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Nov 2, 2020 17:37
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Shinjobi posted:Eri actually controlling time travel means some hilariously bizarre storylines for her parents, as well as random quirks just floating around in other timelines
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Nov 2, 2020 17:45
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Yeah, it's one of those things where it doesn't necessarily make her feel any better but it's a relief for the audience
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Nov 2, 2020 17:55
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I wonder if her dad died from being rewound or was rewound to have his very soul undone. 
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Nov 2, 2020 17:55
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I wonder if her dad died from being rewound or was rewound to have his very soul undone. I assumed he was rewound until he was a single sperm, then he plopped on the ground and died. Actually wait can't sperm survive for a few days outside the body? That means Eri's dad was slowly dying on the floor for days and no one noticed because he was microscopic.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:02
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That scenario would imply that life begins at sperm production in the MHA world.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:11
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Oh god, what has hero society done to the thread?! Oh god, is this on me?!?!?
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Nov 2, 2020 18:15
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Oh wait I guess you don't have your DNA until the sperm combines with the egg. Ok instead of a sperm on the floor it's a fertilized egg cell then.
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Nov 2, 2020 18:15
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Could chiggy just have been lying? I kinda assumed he was the father from the quirk overlap
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Nov 2, 2020 18:16
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Maybe he rewinds into the last thing Eri's grandparents ate before conceiving him
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Nov 2, 2020 18:16
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Lt. Lizard posted:Oh, actually that one is easy. Adult Eri send them back to past to get help from AfO, who is long dead in the future, because he is the only one who can defeat Evil Deku from alternate timeline, who is conquering other dimensions and collecting OfAs from his other selves in a quest to become God. It's like you never read comics or something. Isn't this the plot of the one good arc in Reborn! before it remembered it was a bad manga and poo poo all over itself?
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Nov 2, 2020 19:10
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drjuggalo posted:Could chiggy just have been lying? I kinda assumed he was the father from the quirk overlap If he was lying, he was doing it for no real reason, and also Horikoshi was lying to the readers as well, with the flashbacks that take place from Chisaki's point of view saying that he is absolutely not the dad.
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Nov 2, 2020 20:21
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For the record I still demand that should Aizawa live, he should officially adopt Eri. Not just because "aw gee whiz it's cute" (it is tho) but because I think that'd be a really good cap for his arc- the guy who "couldn't save a kitten" and keeps people at arms length despite clearly wanting to basically be dad, gets to be a dad.
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Nov 2, 2020 20:29
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Lt. Lizard posted:Oh, actually that one is easy. Adult Eri send them back to past to get help from AfO, who is long dead in the future, because he is the only one who can defeat Evil Deku from alternate timeline, who is conquering other dimensions and collecting OfAs from his other selves in a quest to become God. It's like you never read comics or something. This sounds like the plot of an "Into the Deku-verse" movie.
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Nov 2, 2020 21:40
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Is it to much to ask that I just want to see Deku punch someone so hard they explode into mist?
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Nov 2, 2020 21:45
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serious gaylord posted:Is it to much to ask that I just want to see Deku punch someone so hard they explode into mist? that's the dream, friend
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Nov 2, 2020 21:46
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serious gaylord posted:Is it to much to ask that I just want to see Deku punch someone so hard they explode into mist? He'll punch someone so hard his own arm explodes into mist.
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Nov 2, 2020 21:48
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Caught up to the current chapter. I'm not sure how to interpret Toga's reaction to Ochako's response that Toga needs to take responsibility for her actions. Was that what she wanted to hear or not?
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Nov 2, 2020 22:28
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Zebia posted:Caught up to the current chapter. I'm not sure how to interpret Toga's reaction to Ochako's response that Toga needs to take responsibility for her actions. Was that what she wanted to hear or not? My understanding is that Toga, even after joining the villains, still believed that heroes were supposed to save people. Hawks killing Twice shattered that belief, so she went to ask Ochaco what she thought, and the response "No, you've got to live with the consequences" indicates that all heroes are going to be like this towards her (and presumably towards Twice as well), even the ones she's infatuated with. She thanks Ochaco for confirming her suspicions then flees while shedding tears. I don't know. It's kind of muddled given Toga's never shown any remorse about murdering people.
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Nov 2, 2020 22:53
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SKULL.GIF posted:My understanding is that Toga, even after joining the villains, still believed that heroes were supposed to save people. Hawks killing Twice shattered that belief, so she went to ask Ochaco what she thought, and the response "No, you've got to live with the consequences" indicates that all heroes are going to be like this towards her (and presumably towards Twice as well), even the ones she's infatuated with. She thanks Ochaco for confirming her suspicions then flees while shedding tears. This sounds about right. The part that's confusing is that Toga seems to be having half of a conversation that Ochako isn't aware of.
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Nov 2, 2020 23:07
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If you look closely, there's tears in Toga's eyes at one point so no, she didn't get the answer she entirely wanted. E: Here, when told she has to face the consequences of her own actions 
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Nov 2, 2020 23:12
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SKULL.GIF posted:My understanding is that Toga, even after joining the villains, still believed that heroes were supposed to save people. Hawks killing Twice shattered that belief, so she went to ask Ochaco what she thought, and the response "No, you've got to live with the consequences" indicates that all heroes are going to be like this towards her (and presumably towards Twice as well), even the ones she's infatuated with. She thanks Ochaco for confirming her suspicions then flees while shedding tears. I feel like "you must live with the consequences of your actions" would indicate the opposite of hawks "kill a man for the greater good", personally. Like "live with" would imply she's going to get you and you're going to [atone? feel the weight? think about?? whatever, not dying] for what you've done. I do feel if she thought Ochaco would kill her rather than "save" her, she'd probably have a more adverse reaction, maybe?
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Nov 2, 2020 23:57
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Also they both end up thinking about how the other was crying after the conversation, so neither of them got quite what they wanted out of it and are both aware of that.
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Nov 2, 2020 23:59
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Zebia posted:Caught up to the current chapter. I'm not sure how to interpret Toga's reaction to Ochako's response that Toga needs to take responsibility for her actions. Was that what she wanted to hear or not? I think Toga interpretated Ochako saying she has to face the consequences of her actions as meaning at Ochako WILL kill her.
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Nov 3, 2020 00:00
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I think the idea is that Toga is really asking if its possible for her to live in society without either suppressing who she is or being punished for who she is. Ochako (rightfully) tells her she can't just do whatever she wants without consequences which cements in Toga's mind that there's no hope for her being accepted as herself by heroes or society. It sounds crazy because Toga is crazy but she genuinely thought she had a chance at connecting with Ochako but she just doesn't understand how Uraraka thinks at all or that random people matter to her and Uraraka never actually figured out what Toga was really asking her to confirm or saw her as anything but a villain until she saw the tears. It's pretty similar to Twice in how easily he or she could have gotten the help they need to reform. If Hawks had been able to capture Twice I really think with serious therapy he could get better, but that chance slipped by. Likewise with Toga if she wasn't so unhinged here and if Ochako had been able to offer a chance to her I think she could be talked down. Her problem isn't THAT bad, with enough counseling and a partner who is down with blood-play she could live a normal life. And as a minor she should be able to be given a second chance at life in spite of all the, y'know, murder. But the situation was too drastic for either to understand each others perspectives. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 00:14
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The big X-factor is how much Toga's quirk plays into her nature- which seems like a lot. If being forced to suppress it really did make her crack, she really is a victim of society even if she did all the wrong things in response. If she really felt a biological NEED for blood and had to deny it, the fact that it deranged her is on her parents and society in general. e: The general thing for most of the league members we have backstories on is that nobody saved/helped them when they really needed it- and that by and large they would've all been okay if anyone had. Another edit: I want to call myself out for being incredibly stupid- I was watching the movie and was kinda unimpressed with what I thought was the BD quality when it turns out I was playing the DVD, and the the BD was under the insert. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 00:31
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People have said this, but the issue here is that Toga and Ochako are talking past each other, mostly because Ochako lacks the context to understand Toga, and Toga's context is too warped for her to understand Ochako. Toga kills out of "love", because of the urges her quirk gives her and them being unhealthily repressed her whole life until she snapped. Jin's death, meanwhile, has shaken her quite a bit, and has her questioning things, one of which is if the heroes she's in love with see her as anything but another villain to kill. (She might even be starting to feel cognitive dissonance over her love versus how horrible Jin's death makes her feel, but there isn't any explicit evidence in the text for that; it's just something I think fits how conflicted she's been these past few chapters and her reflecting on Twice's death, her love and how it doesn't fit into society, and all that.) Ochako, however, has no idea what went down in the attack on the League, and as we know just isn't on board with killing people in general. Which also, of course, makes her quite opposed to what Toga's been doing. She also doesn't know anything about Toga's history, or how Toga's "love" came to manifest in such a twisted, violent way. So, what happened this chapter (and past ones) is that Toga tried to reach out to Ochako. She talked about her past, how it's hard for her to try to be "normal", how Curious looked down on her and tried to kill her, and both herself and Ochako having feelings for Deku because she thinks that makes them similar and that Ochako might be able to understand her. Ochako responded by saying she shut her feelings for Deku away; Toga's response was that that just makes them more similar and that shutting your feelings away doesn't work, to which Ochako replied that Toga needs to take responsibility for her actions. Now, to Ochako, shutting away her feelings means putting aside her attraction to Deku and not letting it affect her schooling or hero work. It's about fairly normal teenage feelings. And, given that she's not exactly okay with killing people, to her "taking responsibility" probably means going to jail for murder and all that; I highly doubt that she wants to hurt Toga at all, despite being willing to fight her if needed in order to subdue her and keep her from hurting others. It's a pretty normal response, from most perspectives. To Toga, though, shutting away her feelings was... Not great. Being forced to suppress herself made her miserable and drove her mad, and is why she's now a serial killer who wants to live completely freely. And after having one of the people she cares about most die at the hands of a hero (and one who that person liked no less, using that friendship against him), she probably thinks that Ochako means something similar. When Ochako said, "If you're gonna live as you please and threaten people, then you also have to live with the consequences!" what Toga heard was, "If you don't go back to repressing yourself and being miserable, society has no place for you and will stop you with as much force as it needs to." She had been reflecting on how heroes try to save people but no one tried to help Twice, leading her to reach out to someone she thought might understand her, and then was told (from her perspective) that she's not worth saving and society has no place for her unless she stops being herself. It's "us vs them", and the people she loves are "them"; that really hurts, but if that's how it is, she's going back to her "us". Now, Toga's still wrong, of course, but once you take into account her past and everything she says in this chapter and previous ones, her perspective is understandable. She's also not actually hypocritical, despite people pointing out that she wants to kill people but is upset about people wanting to kill her; it's important to remember that, to Toga, her killing people is genuinely out of love. Of course she's going to see a difference between that and Hawks putting down Twice for being a threat. We haven't seen anything to suggest that her thoughts here are anything but internally consistent; heck, given her talk of how emotional the thought of becoming someone else by sucking up all their blood makes her, if someone else were to express a similar desire towards her, she'd probably find it romantic. I'm not saying that things going this way is Ochako's fault either; responding to Toga "correctly" would have required knowledge she couldn't have possibly had. Everything she said is fairly normal. The problem was that Toga isn't normal, and her inability to fit into what's "normal" and normal people rejecting her and her quirks (pun intentional) is pretty much exactly what led her to where she is now. Nephthys posted:I think the idea is that Toga is really asking if its possible for her to live in society without either suppressing who she is or being punished for who she is. Ochako (rightfully) tells her she can't just do whatever she wants without consequences which cements in Toga's mind that there's no hope for her being accepted as herself by heroes or society. It sounds crazy because Toga is crazy but she genuinely thought she had a chance at connecting with Ochako but she just doesn't understand how Uraraka thinks at all or that random people matter to her and Uraraka never actually figured out what Toga was really asking her to confirm or saw her as anything but a villain until she saw the tears. Basically, this. What both sides were saying and what the other was hearing weren't the same thing, which Toga never realized and Ochako didn't start to realize until it was too late. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 00:48
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I finally started Vigilantes yesterday after years of meaning to, just finished what I believe is the end of Volume 3. It's really good! Wish it was less horny!
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Nov 3, 2020 02:39
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:“[does X] at cost of lifespan” is a deeply lame shounen trope that’s way overplayed and tends to never really become relevant to the narrative anyway. Besides, it doesn’t really fit Hori’s style - I fully expect that whatever the downside of #4’s quirk is, its gonna be a lot more gruesome and concrete rather than an abstract threat like “shortens your lifespan” Chainsaw Man is probably the only manga where "shortens your life span" was at all relevant and threatening. Maybe Death Note??
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Nov 3, 2020 02:56
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CodfishCartographer posted:Chainsaw Man is probably the only manga where "shortens your life span" was at all relevant and threatening. Maybe Death Note?? Hunter X Hunter did it well, I think, in part because it had a bite that was actually relevant right away (turns out overexerting yourself and burning your life away isn't good for you in the short term either), and also the character in question did some calculations and the future cost was serious. Like, "keep abusing this and it could actually become relevant during the manga" serious. Actually, there was another occasion where a character did a "trade future X away for power now" thing, and that one worked rather well too, I think. That one actually almost killed the character who did it the moment the power-up ended and had long-term consequences. He's not even the main character anymore and hasn't been in the current arc at all because what he gave up was all his power and potential both current and future, so even though he's not dead or in a coma (anymore) he's not going to be able to do anything of importance in the manga for a while, if ever. Death Note is a good one though because of what it said about the person who did it, especially after they halved their lifespan the second time, and also the character who gladly took advantage of them doing it. Edit: Basically, it either needs to have tangible consequences even if the actual life loss is far off, or it needs to tell us something about the characters involved and be given appropriate gravity, or both. Just being used as a way to justify something being powerful and establish it as dangerous without having any real consequences that will matter in the series is what's bad. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 03:44
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Arist posted:It's really good! Wish it was less horny! 
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Nov 3, 2020 04:37
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PMush Perfect posted:At least it takes after the source material. Nah, it's a good deal worse in a few ways on that front imo. Still great otherwise but yeah. Also I agree totally with the big Toga post that just happened, and it's part of why I think the narrative resolution for her character, and thus also the character of Twice, is that Toga is the one who gets "saved" properly.
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Nov 3, 2020 04:57
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This was good and thorough analysis, thank you.
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Nov 3, 2020 05:03
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also I agree totally with the big Toga post that just happened, and it's part of why I think the narrative resolution for her character, and thus also the character of Twice, is that Toga is the one who gets "saved" properly. I've said before that it's important that Deku's MO for a long time has been saving people who the system missed. Eri, Kota, Shoto, Shinso, Gentle, La Brava... When Deku saves people who are "just" in physical danger, the manga seldom dwells on it, but when he saves someone from despair, it gets focus. (This even comes into play in the movies, with Deku saving another person who hates heroes and someone whose criminal activities leave him feeling hopeless) The logical climax of that buildup is to save one of the villains of the manga. Jin and Toga were the best candidates, and with Jin dead, Toga's most likely by default. It's a way for Deku to surpass All Might that isn't just bigger punches and explosions.
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Nov 3, 2020 06:29
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The idea that Deku has to 'save' mass murderers in order to be a real hero is some mind-boggling poo poo and always has been
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Nov 3, 2020 06:37
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Yeah Shigaraki the guy most people theorized this about is now straight up unforgivable. Toga is not as bad as Shigaraki but she is still utterly remorseless, and evil.
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Nov 3, 2020 06:45
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There's a difference between not killing someone and forgiving them I think?
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Nov 3, 2020 06:49
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