|
The Grumbles posted:Hi all, The airflow isn’t great in the define mini c. It’s likely better if you’re willing to stack extra fans in there. The meshify will be quieter because you’ll have to spin the fans less to achieve the same effect. Have you looked at the define 7 compact? That has the same from panel as the mini c, but you can swing it open when you need more airflow.
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 17:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 18:20 |
|
|
Sirbloody posted:It looks like things are falling in place so I need to start ordering some parts for the PC I am building from scratch. I am still debating on a 5800x or a 5900x (I see video editing in my future thanks to my kids) but with the motherboard I picked out (MSI X570 Gaming Edge Wifi) there might be a required bios update for the new 5000 line. Can anyone confirm if that is the case? Sadly I do not have an older Ryzen chip to use so I might just swap the motherboard with something else if needed. It has BIOS flashback, you're fine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
For the Fractal Meshify C, everyone says to buy 2x140mm fans for the front (and I have done so), but that leaves me with the second stock 120mm fan. Since I already have it I feel like I might as well still use it. Would a bottom intake or top exhaust be better? Top would still be negative pressure I assume since the front fans are larger, but which option would be better overall?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 17:37
|
|
|
change my name posted:This is a weird question, but my rear exhaust fan is looking pretty... wet? around the edges, almost dripping onto the GPU, and none of the other fans are having this problem. Is it just condensation? And can I prevent it from building up somehow? Update: it's looking uncomfortably greasy again so I'm just gonna pull it and replace it with one of the 120mm front intake fans. I wonder if NZXT will throw me $14 for a replacement.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
bus hustler posted:microcenter is selling a 3600 for 180 & 20 off a motherboard. thats one hell of a buy. Microcenter has had some crazy deals on CPUs this year and I think its because they have a lot of poo poo to move that they thought GPU hype would help with. The online land of gpu buying hasn't been great for them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 17:43
|
|
|
It's also not uncommon for them to do very good combo deals on now-outdated equipment like that. Selling 3x00 CPUs at MSRP now that the 5x00 ones are out would be a challenge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
Since I've posted a bunch of suggestions over the past few months, I figured I'd post what I actually ended up buying for myself.  PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($449.00 @ B&H) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($63.75 @ Amazon) Thermal Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut 1g 1 g Thermal Paste ($7.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: Gigabyte B550 AORUS PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($169.99 @ Amazon) Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($149.99 @ B&H) Storage: SK hynix Gold P31 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($134.99 @ Amazon) Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($500.00) Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($87.98 @ Newegg) Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Amazon) Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1200 64.92 CFM 140 mm Fan ($14.95 @ Amazon) Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1200 64.92 CFM 140 mm Fan ($14.95 @ Amazon) Total: $1713.58 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-05 12:08 EST-0500 Don't take this as a suggested build exactly, a fair number of choices were just because I felt like it and/or had saved up a bigger than usual budget for me. Like you could drop to a 5600X and a B550M Bazooka and a 650W PSU and lose literally nothing for a gaming build, you probably really only need 16 GB still, going to 3200 CL16 RAM probably makes a 1% difference or something, I got a different thermal paste to save 1C or whatever just because, etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I was on Newegg at 9 and I never saw the thing pop up until it was sold out Yeah for some reason the 3800X never showed up on search but if you clicked into the link from the tweet they had a small page with direct links to the non bundle CPUs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 18:47
|
|
|
I've got to update the OP now, grumble grumble. I won't be able to go deep on benchmarks for a couple hours, is the jump in perf of the 5600 worth the price delta over the 3600 for as long as they're still available, or is it up into diminishing returns? Protip: split bigass OPs into multiple posts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 18:51
|
|
|
With the drop of the AMD Zen 3 processors, I figured it was time to start acquiring parts. So far, all I have is the processor ordered from Best Buy. I figure I will be buying what I can as the prices look good. The main use for this is gaming. A friend convinced me to buy Total War:Warhammer 2, and while it runs on my system, it is slow to load and run. I am hoping to pick up Cyberpunk 2077 at some point, but who knows when that comes out. Since I don’t actually have a NVidia 3080 card at this point, I will try for a Radeon 6800XT card in two weeks. When those sell out instantly, I will probably just get an EVGA card of some sort. I am guessing a 1660 TI and get in line with the step up program for some time next year. Seeing as how my current PC was assembled in 2013, even that should be a nice upgrade. Also if I go the step up route, I will probably wait a bit on the monitor (or at least for a nice sale), as I have some fairly new Asus 1080 monitors that should be good when I can’t max out 1440 settings. Any suggestions for changes? I was just kinda going off of suggestions in this thread, and some of the other lists on the PCPartPicker website. PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($299.00 @ B&H) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.95 @ Amazon) Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($147.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Lenovo) Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 10 GB FTW3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($87.98 @ Newegg) Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GA 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.03 @ Amazon) Monitor: LG 27GL83A-B 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor ($489.99 @ Amazon) Total: $1498.92 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-05 12:28 EST-0500
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:00
|
|
|
Some Goon posted:I've got to update the OP now, grumble grumble. I won't be able to go deep on benchmarks for a couple hours, is the jump in perf of the 5600 worth the price delta over the 3600 for as long as they're still available, or is it up into diminishing returns? The 5600X is ~10-20% ahead of the 3600X in a lot of games, assuming you're not completely GPU bottlenecked, and further ahead than that in a lot of the productivity / CPU-intensive benchmarks. There are notable exceptions: Civ6 at 1080p, for example, shows a ~50 FPS difference (100 vs 150), F1 at 1080p also shows a big delta. But most games don't show nearly that big a gap, and anything at 4k is pretty much guaranteed to be GPU limited anyhow and so the 3600 vs 5600X is a single-digit difference. Compared to the 3600 at $200, that means it's about a 1:1 price:perf boost in productivity workloads, and somewhat worse than that for gaming workloads. Which means: -there's no reason to upgrade for gaming (outside edge cases) if you have a 3600 -if you're super price-sensitive it means that picking up a 3600 (especially as they start getting discounted / get 'em used) is a good choice -if you're planning on being GPU bottlenecked (4k, not-a-3x00 GPU, whatever) and don't really do much besides game, a 3600 offers some savings -there are certain CPU-heavy games where the 5600X shows enormous gains, so it's worth considering your use cases -combo-bonuses at places like NewEgg and MicroCenter can increase the price delta above $100, which is also worth considering
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
Some Goon posted:I've got to update the OP now, grumble grumble. I won't be able to go deep on benchmarks for a couple hours, is the jump in perf of the 5600 worth the price delta over the 3600 for as long as they're still available, or is it up into diminishing returns? https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested Early reviews look good. A 5600X looks to do double-digit performance increases over a 3700X. 40-50% increase in Civ6, 20% in DXMD, 25% in F1...it even outperforms the 5800X and 5900X in some games. Most of that is at 1080p, but the 4k performance cleaves similarly! Looks like a good chip, bront.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:11
|
|
|
DrDork posted:The 5600X is ~10-20% ahead of the 3600X in a lot of games, assuming you're not completely GPU bottlenecked, and further ahead than that in a lot of the productivity / CPU-intensive benchmarks. There are notable exceptions: Civ6 at 1080p, for example, shows a ~50 FPS difference (100 vs 150), F1 at 1080p also shows a big delta. But most games don't show nearly that big a gap, and anything at 4k is pretty much guaranteed to be GPU limited anyhow and so the 3600 vs 5600X is a single-digit difference. Yeah, no real reason to upgrade from a 3600 yet, but if you're building you can now go with a 5600 for an easy performance boost or still with the 3600 and put the savings into a GPU!
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:13
|
|
|
I’m glad I was able to snag a 5600x for the same price as the 3700x since that will last me until I decide to do another build
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
I wanted a 5900X, but again am SOL. It never was in stock at Newegg, and I was able to get one into my cart direct from AMD.com but their site kept crashing. Apparently I got IP banned on my phone trying to repeatedly refresh the checkout page trying to get it to work. Great time A++
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
Is it an insane idea to sell my 2070S for like ~$500 on ebay and buy a 3070? Why are people buying 2070S's for ~$450-500 on ebay... ? (Obviously I would want to buy a 3070 first if I can find one)
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 19:57
|
|
|
Thom P. Tiers posted:Is it an insane idea to sell my 2070S for like ~$500 on ebay and buy a 3070? Why are people buying 2070S's for ~$450-500 on ebay... ? I dunno if I'd personally bother with ebay but if you either have a 3070, can get one reliably, or dont mind waiting I'd definitely consider selling it locally for 400 or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
Thanks people for their case recommendations. I'd like to get something that fits the mATX a bit more snugly. There's just so much empty room in my old tower case. But if anyone has any non-Fractal recommendations for nice looking cases (maybe with a window) that better fit the mATX and are more space efficient, I'd love to hear them. On another note, I love building PCs but I've only built one from scratch maybe 2 or 3 times (for obvious reasons). I opened up my most recent build today and realised I'd installed the PSU the wrong way up, so it's been wafting warm air into the graphics card this whole time. I'd also spent an hour troubleshooting why it wouldn't boot when I first switched it on, only to realise I hadn't attached a power cable into the CPU at all. Edit: Oh, and the first time I ever opened up a PC as a kid, my dad walked in, saw a big ball of dust on the motherboard, and went and cleaned it off with his finger before I could stop him. That thing never switched on again. Have any of you got any good horror stories from building PCs? I wanna hear some real gnarly disasters The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 20:03
|
|
|
Thom P. Tiers posted:Is it an insane idea to sell my 2070S for like ~$500 on ebay and buy a 3070? Why are people buying 2070S's for ~$450-500 on ebay... ? I'm assuming this is because mining has totally hosed up the market? Apparently I can even flip my 1650 Super on Ebay for more than I bought it for
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Thom P. Tiers posted:Is it an insane idea to sell my 2070S for like ~$500 on ebay and buy a 3070? Why are people buying 2070S's for ~$450-500 on ebay... ? It would be a solid upgrade and only cost you like $80 out of pocket, so sure--assuming you can either get a 3070 in hand first, or are ok without a GPU for a week or two. As to "why", the answer is probably a mix of impatience at trying to get Ampere cards, and ignorance that Ampere even exists. It'll rectify itself eventually, but if you've got a card to flip, now ain't a bad time. change my name posted:I'm assuming this is because mining has totally hosed up the market? Apparently I can even flip my 1650 Super on Ebay for more than I bought it for Nah, GPU mining is all but dead. I'd expect the prices are more due to everyone being stuck at home and itching for upgrades and being bad at assessing value. DrDork fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 20:14
|
|
|
Orvin posted:Western Digital Blue 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Lenovo) You want the SN550 NVMe drive, not this which is just a regular SSD that fits in the M.2 slot iirc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 20:50
|
|
|
Butterfly Valley posted:You want the SN550 NVMe drive, not this which is just a regular SSD that fits in the M.2 slot iirc. Thanks for the heads up on that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Since I've posted a bunch of suggestions over the past few months, I figured I'd post what I actually ended up buying for myself. Why not go for the big D15? I know its overkill but its so big you can have a nice long fan delay and treat it like a radiator.  For $20 more I think it makes sense if you are already splurging on cooling since its going to be useful for a long time. What else can you ever even do with that space in your case anyway? Obviously i'm just looking for a fault in a build that doesn't have one 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:27
|
|
|
spunkshui posted:Why not go for the big D15? Gamers Nexus did a test a while back where basically for the 105W TDP Zen 2s the U14S and D15 performed within like 1 degree or something. The D15 really only pulls away unless you have fuckloads more heat to dissipate. I still almost got a D15S anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
Surprisingly I was able to find the chart in question, it's actually with an OC'd 3800X.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
I snagged the 5600x today so I am starting to order the rest of this gear. Anyone have any feedback on these choices? The motherboard and PSU are the biggest guesses I made - there are so many B550 options. I will be sticking with my GTX 1070 for now until I can upgrade. I am going with what I see a lot in this thread as I have been out of the loop for a long time. I am replacing a i5-2500k afterall... Also, I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 that is currently on this old rear end 2500k - is that worth cleaning up and reusing on this CPU or should I go with the included heatsink/fan? PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor (Purchased @ Amazon) Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon) Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($64.98 @ Amazon) Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (Purchased @ Amazon) Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 10 GB XC3 BLACK GAMING Video Card ($729.99 @ Best Buy) Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($98.98 @ Newegg) Power Supply: EVGA G3 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg) Total: $1592.92 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-05 15:35 EST-0500
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
Pedialyte posted:I snagged the 5600x today so I am starting to order the rest of this gear. Anyone have any feedback on these choices? The motherboard and PSU are the biggest guesses I made - there are so many B550 options. I will be sticking with my GTX 1070 for now until I can upgrade. I am going with what I see a lot in this thread as I have been out of the loop for a long time. I am replacing a i5-2500k afterall... https://twitter.com/FractalDesignNA/status/1323988372365451264 Looks like a new updated Meshify but who knows about release date
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:45
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Surprisingly I was able to find the chart in question, it's actually with an OC'd 3800X. More noctua wizard smoke I see. Rpms are diff but noise normalization is totally fair. I really hope a12x25 in 140mm comes out soon so I have an excuse to give them more money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
spunkshui posted:Why not go for the big D15? sean10mm posted:Gamers Nexus did a test a while back where basically for the 105W TDP Zen 2s the U14S and D15 performed within like 1 degree or something. The D15 really only pulls away unless you have fuckloads more heat to dissipate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 22:02
|
|
|
FreeKillB posted:Thread's moving fairly fast, just wanted to add in a note that unless I'm mistaken the Pro4 is in a tier where ASRock motherboards do not have any kind of debug LED. Looking at manuals for budget B550s, the only thing I can say definitively is that it looks like debug LEDs are present on MSI's boards (I checked it for the Pro-VDH max at least). It's not a dealbreaker (my most recent build used a comparable ASRock mobo) as long as you don't have any trouble hooking things up but I wanted to highlight that as a potential feature that could save you a significant headache if you have issues getting things to post. I've just recently acquired the ASRock B550 Pro4 and it definitely has the LED's on the board that tell you if it's your CPU, RAM or video card that are playing up on boot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
Hey what's a great air cooler that's under 155mm? I checked the case specs and it says that is the max cooler height.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
hambeet posted:Hey what's a great air cooler that's under 155mm? I checked the case specs and it says that is the max cooler height. NR200? Fuma 2 seems to be what people are squeezing in. You can get more height by not using the fan mount. Even more if you use shorter standoffs moving the mother board close to the case. (although it doesn't seem necessary for the Fuma 2). The Mugen looks to be an easier fit. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 22:57
|
|
|
What country are you in? UK What are you using the system for? Web and Office? Gaming? Video or photo editing? Professional creative or scientific computing? Mainly gaming, with a bit of programming. What's your budget? I've got savings to cover this. Given I'm carrying forward a graphics card, I'd feel uncomfortable going over ~£1k, unless there were a good argument for doing so. If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? Visual Studio, a few Docker containers, maybe standalone VMs. If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? I'll be sticking with a 1080p/60Hz monitor, driven by a GTX 1060 6Gb that I'm bringing forward from my current machine. Example games include Total Warhammer and Tomb Raider, at high settings. I'd like the option of upgrading graphically in a few years time, say to a 1440p/144Hz monitor with an appropriate graphics card. My current system is an i5-4570 from 2014, with a 256Gb SSD and 8Gb RAM. My main goal for this upgrade is improving storage. I've also realised that my old PSU only had a 3 year warranty (!), and I've had a few worrying issues of the boot drive not always being found when I first power up. Restarting fixes this, but it's another point in favour of moving to a new stable build. Processor-wise, I'm not convinced I'd benefit enough from the new Ryzens to be worth the cost, and even the 3700x is an extra £100. This is another aspect I could conceivably upgrade in a few years time, if a full rebuild doesn't come up by then. PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (£180.00 @ Currys PC World) Motherboard: MSI MAG B550M MORTAR WIFI Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£139.97 @ Amazon UK) Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (£129.59 @ Amazon UK) Storage: Western Digital SN750 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£137.51 @ Overclockers.co.uk) Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case (£89.99 @ Currys PC World) Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (£105.46 @ Scan.co.uk) Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1200 64.92 CFM 140 mm Fan (£14.31 @ Amazon UK) Case Fan: Noctua P14s redux-1200 64.92 CFM 140 mm Fan (£14.31 @ Amazon UK) Total: £811.14 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-05 22:11 GMT+0000
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 23:18
|
|
|
Duck and Cover posted:NR200? Fuma 2 seems to be what people are squeezing in. You can get more height by not using the fan mount. Even more if you use shorter standoffs moving the mother board (although it doesn't seem necessary for the Fuma 2). The Mugen looks to be an easier fit. Thanks I'll have a look at these. I do have shorter standoffs already. Where do they measure from when they say 155mm, top of the cpu or mobo where the cooler would be fixing to? I ask because I swear there's at least 160mm clearance when I've tried measuring.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 23:22
|
|
|
GordonTheDeadFish posted:
This looks good, but given your use case, I don't think there's any real reason to go to 32gb of RAM. It's certainly overkill for 1080p/60fps gaming on your current monitor, and you would be fine with 16gb gaming at 1440p when you are ready to upgrade. I'd recommend saving the cash and grabbing 16gb of 3200 RAM for about £60, something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0143UM4TC unless you have a particular reason for the bigger capacity. Funso Banjo fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Nov 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
Funso Banjo posted:This looks good, but given your use case, I don't think there's any real reason to go to 32gb of RAM. It's certainly overkill for 1080p/60fps gaming on your current monitor, and you would be fine with 16gb gaming at 1440p when you are ready to upgrade. I'd recommend saving the cash and grabbing 16gb of 3200 RAM for about £60, something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0143UM4TC unless you have a particular reason for the bigger capacity. Yeah, that does make sense. I already talked myself down from a few other upgrades, I guess I don't really need the extra here. Cheers!
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 00:03
|
|
|
I was recommended the ARCTIC Freezer 34 CO for an AMD 3700X build, would that still be fine for the new 5600X? I am assuming that should be sufficient since I am not planning on OCing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I was recommended the ARCTIC Freezer 34 CO for an AMD 3700X build, would that still be fine for the new 5600X? I am assuming that should be sufficient since I am not planning on OCing. Same TDP I think so yeah.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 01:06
|
|
|
Thanks
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 18:20 |
|
|
hambeet posted:Thanks I'll have a look at these. I do have shorter standoffs already. Where do they measure from when they say 155mm, top of the cpu or mobo where the cooler would be fixing to? I ask because I swear there's at least 160mm clearance when I've tried measuring. Beats me but I've seen the Fuma 2 being used with the glass panel so the mesh panel shouldn't be a problem, assuming your ram isn't too tall. I asked about a 157.5mm cpu cooler (mugen argb) with the glass. https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/jgs26m/can_the_nr200p_fit_a_1575_cooler/ I think in theory it could fit but I'm not willing to try it. I think the black Mugen looks pretty good from an aesthetic stand point, but that doesn't really matter as you aren't using the tempered glass. https://pcpartpicker.com/b/tQK48d Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 01:43
|
|