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Blistex posted:B&D's tools have been on a steady decline for the past ~30 years. While they were never a premium brand, at one time they did make tough, reliable tools. In the last 15 years or so they've been using "brand less" tools (a generic tool that a factory will pump out for cheap and slap on any logo for another company too small/cheap to make their own stuff). While it's not 100% disposable garbage, longevity, durability and precision are sorely lacking in a lot of B&D's stuff. If you're a suburban family that replaces a deck board every few years or so, then B&D is a good choice for you. If you're posting here, you might want to spend a little more on something better. My dad was saying the other day that they went south in the late 80s, and from his perspective it was basically overnight.
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Dec 17, 2020 21:51
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Doesn't DeWalt sell battery adapters for their older tools?CommonShore posted:My dad was saying the other day that they went south in the late 80s, and from his perspective it was basically overnight. Guessing that's when they switched to plastic tools. Internals were ok, but the plastic they used was prone to cracking when dropped. Blistex fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 22:18
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JEEVES420 posted:I bought my drill press many years ago for the purpose of using it as a Mill. I wouldn't exactly call it accurate but for rough milling it works really well. For everyone in the stands, be very careful with this. The spindle bearings and the chuck taper are designed for axial (up the centerline of the tool) force only. Using end mills or router bits in a drill press can cause the chuck & taper to dislodge from the spindle while running, flinging a 3 lb chunk of steel in any direction at high speed. It'll also wear the poo poo out of the spindle bearings. Drill presses are designed to handle some radial (sideways) force from surprises and uneven surfaces, but only so much. E: ughh I dread shopping for power tools. Short of spending hours on YouTube searching for up-to-date teardown videos where they look at the product in detail (mold quality, bearing fit, play in precision surfaces, etc.), it's hard to stay informed on this stuff. Anyone got recs for finding this kind of stuff out? HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 22:46
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HolHorsejob posted:For everyone in the stands, be very careful with this. The spindle bearings and the chuck taper are designed for axial (up the centerline of the tool) force only. Using end mills or router bits in a drill press can cause the chuck & taper to dislodge from the spindle while running, flinging a 3 lb chunk of steel in any direction at high speed. It'll also wear the poo poo out of the spindle bearings. Yeah, I should of said I bought a drill press for metal not wood and took extremely < .5mm passes. I wouldn't exactly try it with a Wen or porter cable.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:50
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JEEVES420 posted:Yeah, I should of said I bought a drill press for metal not wood and took extremely < .5mm passes. I wouldn't exactly try it with a Wen or porter cable. The biggest issue is that drill press tapers (where the spindle transmits force to the chuck) tend to be press-fit. This works because the forces of drilling keep the taper firmly pressed into position. Heavy radial loads (heavy cuts/accidents) can break this press fit. Milling machines usually have tapers that are bolted into the spindle. They also have bearings that are made for heavy combined axial/radial loads (angular contact bearings on cheap/high speed spindles, tapered roller bearings for the rest). I'm not going to tell you what to do in your own shop, I just want newcomers that are considering this to think twice.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:57
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HolHorsejob posted:E: ughh I dread shopping for power tools. Short of spending hours on YouTube searching for up-to-date teardown videos where they look at the product in detail (mold quality, bearing fit, play in precision surfaces, etc.), it's hard to stay informed on this stuff. Anyone got recs for finding this kind of stuff out? I usually read all of the negative Amazon reviews for any tool I'm looking at, and check out the good/bad review ratio.
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Dec 17, 2020 23:00
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I do the same, and it is quite amusing how often tools get a 1 star review for the simple reason that the person who bought it has no idea how to use it or what the tool is actually for.
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Dec 17, 2020 23:10
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I also enjoy the "Tool is great, but shipping took too long" one star reviews. Very helpful.
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Dec 17, 2020 23:16
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I wish I wrote down the persons name to give credit, but I failed to do so. In any case, whoever suggested the "Wood Slicer" blades from Highland for bandsaws, I love you. I got my order this morning and replaced the blade on my little band-saw and it now rips the Swiss Pear that I'm testing it on exceptionally well, very clean cuts and almost zero blade deflection meaning less waste because I can cut closer to the final thickness and take fewer passes through the thickness sander. Two thumps up!
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Dec 17, 2020 23:21
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Speaking of metalwork and bandsaws, it would've been super nice to just mill down and tap out a billet of aluminum or something for a blade guide, instead of having to mostly handwork a square steel tube. Not that I really knew what I was doing either way.  Turned out serviceable, at least. God only knows how long it'll last.
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Dec 17, 2020 23:44
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Isn't that blade upside-down? 
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Dec 17, 2020 23:59
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Isn't that blade upside-down? It would be pretty interesting trying to hold down the material while it was cutting that way! I'm... kind of confused as to how that can even happen, the only way on my two-wheel bandsaw to get the teeth pointed up would be to install the blade backwards so that the teeth were pointing into the guide. Edit: Nice job fabricating a guide though, I certainly couldn't have done that.
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Dec 18, 2020 00:33
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drat, I was hoping to come back and edit that before anyone noticed. Uh, backsawing? E: though it cut the maple insert just fine, even so. Buy Olson, I guess? E2: vvvv heh Suntan Boy fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 00:54
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Suntan Boy posted:drat, I was hoping to come back and edit that before anyone noticed. Uh, backsawing? here i fixed it for you 
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Dec 18, 2020 01:01
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The junk collector posted:Kobalt, Ryobi, and Rigid seem to be in a weird space where some of their stuff is pretty good and some complete crap. Most of it is ok. Older Craftsmen tools are not related to newer craftsmen, it's like buying an old Stanley hand plane vs a new one. I don't think I've ever hated or found unusable something I got from Dewalt, Makita, or Milwaukee but I expect that to change at some point in the future. Yeah, Ryobi, Kobalt, and Rigid all have excellent tools within their lines. For a long time (and perhaps still) the Ryobi cordless nailers were far superior to the Milwaukee ones, even though Ryobi, Rigid, and Milwaukee are all made by the same company. Whomever was making GBS threads on the current state of Porter Cable, I agree, they should have been a tier lower than I put them. Also Bosch should have been at a-tier but I honestly forgot they existed for a hot minute.
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Dec 18, 2020 01:03
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Suntan Boy posted:drat, I was hoping to come back and edit that before anyone noticed. Uh, backsawing? I was legit wondering if those photos were taken of the underside of the table and were upside-down for some reason. How did you get the blade upside-down without it also facing backwards?
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Dec 18, 2020 01:36
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GEMorris posted:Whomever was making GBS threads on the current state of Porter Cable, I agree, they should have been a tier lower than I put them. Porter Cable is a hard one to peg because of their history. At one time they were regarded as the best power tool manufacturer in the us. Then Rockwell bought them and lowered the quality. Then in the 80s (I think) they were bought out by Pentair who had them making professional grade stuff again. PC were the first to do pretty much everything when it came to cordless tools and batteries, until they were bought out again ~15 years ago by Stanley. Now they're going downhill quality wise while Makita seems to be going in the opposite direction and only getting better. GEMorris posted:Also Bosch should have been at a-tier but I honestly forgot they existed for a hot minute. Bosch is one of those brands that flies under the radar because contractors all go with DeWalt, cabinet makers all go with Festool, and ordinary consumers go with everything else. They're not a "house brand" so places like Lowes, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, etc. showcase other brands first. Most people who I know in the business rate them just under Festool (dust collection mostly) and given the specific tool, above or the same as DeWalt quality wise. Makita seems to exist in a similar situation as they're just as good quality wise and similarily priced.
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Dec 18, 2020 02:50
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Suntan Boy posted:Speaking of metalwork and bandsaws, it would've been super nice to just mill down and tap out a billet of aluminum or something for a blade guide, instead of having to mostly handwork a square steel tube. Not that I really knew what I was doing either way. This is awesome. It basically looks like euro style guides-I'll be interested to see how they hold up! My old boss made his guides out of rosewood or teak or some other oily wood and they worked great too. GEMorris posted:Yeah, Ryobi, Kobalt, and Rigid all have excellent tools within their lines. For a long time (and perhaps still) the Ryobi cordless nailers were far superior to the Milwaukee ones, even though Ryobi, Rigid, and Milwaukee are all made by the same company. Blistex posted:Porter Cable is a hard one to peg because of their history. At one time they were regarded as the best power tool manufacturer in the us. Then Rockwell bought them and lowered the quality. Then in the 80s (I think) they were bought out by Pentair who had them making professional grade stuff again. PC were the first to do pretty much everything when it came to cordless tools and batteries, until they were bought out again ~15 years ago by Stanley. Now they're going downhill quality wise while Makita seems to be going in the opposite direction and only getting better.  Good orbital sanders too. Makita is the happy middle ground of excellent quality and good, simple ergonomics.
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Dec 18, 2020 03:33
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Porter Cable's routers used to be the hands down best in the business, and they were usually the first to innovate in that area. Their routers are the last bastion of their former glory, but apparently the entire brand is coming to an end. 
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Dec 18, 2020 03:42
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:the Bosch system sucks. I also don't love their router fence, and their routers have a problem with the switch getting dust in it that they refuse to fix. Having two different sized wrenches for the collets is also dumb-make them both the same length so you can get equal leverage. The 1617 router motor itself is great, it's just all the accessories suck. Literally just bought My First Router, a Bosch 1617 EVS. It checked all my newbie boxes, fixed base, variable speed, soft start, feedback for constant speed, at least 11 amps, 1/2" collet, etc. It was $250 CAD compared to other cheaper fixed base routers like the Mastercraft ($169 CAD) but those didn't even have variable speed control. How much should I regret my purchase on a scale of 1 to 250? Edit: I don't have a real router table so I built my own crude fence, don't really have any accessories. But yes I did find it strange that the collet wrenches were different sizes :P epswing fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 03:50
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epalm posted:Literally just bought My First Router, a Bosch 1617 EVS. It checked all my newbie boxes, fixed base, variable speed, soft start, feedback for constant speed, at least 11 amps, 1/2" collet, etc. It was $250 CAD compared to other cheaper fixed base routers like the Mastercraft ($169 CAD) but those didn't even have variable speed control. It's actually a great router! Just buy a universal base plate and get the porter cable template guides if you ever need them. And maybe get a universal fence. And bookmark this video because you'll need it one day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACGuwtfmn_c&t=594s
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Dec 18, 2020 03:54
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Tying back two different discussions, I shouldn't have bought the Ryobi fixed base router. It only has a 1/4" collet which makes it a bad router table router, it's too bulky to be a dedicated trim router, and it doesn't have a plunge base available. What I really want is 3 routers: a beefy-ish plunge for cutting slots/mortises and potentially flattening slabs, a beefy 1/2" one permanently in my router table, and a tiny trim router, ideally cordless.
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Dec 18, 2020 04:26
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The Locator posted:It would be pretty interesting trying to hold down the material while it was cutting that way! TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was legit wondering if those photos were taken of the underside of the table and were upside-down for some reason. How did you get the blade upside-down without it also facing backwards? Well, step #1 is to stop paying attention after you get to the "teeth out" part of the checklist. After that, it's just an invert/flip deal. Then swear as you realize you're about to be judged by The Internet. Kaiser Schnitzel posted:This is awesome. It basically looks like euro style guides-I'll be interested to see how they hold up! My old boss made his guides out of rosewood or teak or some other oily wood and they worked great too. Believe me, if it breaks, the whole world is going to hear me bitch. I saw a lot of different wood DIYs as I was trying to figure this thing out. The biggest problem is space: it's only got a generously measured 9" of usable blade before dangling anything underneath the guard, and getting the same amount of clearance with a wood guide seemed kind of sketchy. I thought about just putting oily wooden blocks in; it might be something I look at in the future for the guide, but I had the bearings laying around already, and the bottom ones would have to be ~5mm square, which I judged to be an asspain I didn't want, so went with Coolblocks.
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Dec 18, 2020 04:34
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I have 2 of the 1617, one in router table and one with fixed/plunge base. They are really capable routers. Routers are one of the few power tools you end up with a collection of. I have 6 if you count the cnc.
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Dec 18, 2020 04:47
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epalm posted:But yes I did find it strange that the collet wrenches were different sizes :P I'm of two minds: 1) the same size wrench is convenient as you don't have to think about it 2) one is much more likely to have a basic set of wrenches with two wrenches of different sizes than two wrenches of the same size What was  to me was the Harbor Freight die grinders. I got a regular one and a 90 degree one. Both had collets that were different sizes, but they were also different between the two tools, so one needed four sizes of wrenches to use the two collets.
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Dec 18, 2020 05:16
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1617EVS is great as a fixed base router. The motor is excellent in tables/machines and the plunge base is oldschool and simple. I don't really like factory edge guides and imo making a big acrylic base with a fence is way better. The plunge base is not spectacular, but most plunge bases for most router motors are lovely one way or another. Sort of have to just pick your poison and learn to work with the quirks.
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Dec 18, 2020 05:26
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Without suggesting Festool, what's a good router for use in a router table? I like having a plunge base with the through-plate adjustment. Right now I'm using the Mastercraft one, and would be satisfied with it if it were not for the fact it doesn't like to keep the tool square with the base when under tension.
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Dec 18, 2020 05:55
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I use a Bosch 1617 in my router table, and it seems fine. I use the Bosch fixed base, but that seems preferable in terms of control compared to the plunge base, since you have a threaded rod for adjusting height instead of just squeezing a release and pushing the router around by hand.
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Dec 18, 2020 05:58
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I was not aware that fixed base routers could do that. I assumed that you needed a plunge base to be able to adjust the depth with the hex rod.
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Dec 18, 2020 06:20
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While my cordless tools are all Milwaukee and my corded tools are a smattering, if I had to start over I'd probably go with Makita everything. The breadth of tools they make is astounding and while their battery tech isn't the greatest they usually hit the exact value point I'm after.
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Dec 18, 2020 06:36
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Blistex posted:Without suggesting Festool, what's a good router for use in a router table? I like having a plunge base with the through-plate adjustment. Right now I'm using the Mastercraft one, and would be satisfied with it if it were not for the fact it doesn't like to keep the tool square with the base when under tension. The Triton TRA001 is one of the best routers for mounting in a table as it has a threaded rod for depth adjustment that you can access from the base so you dont have to keep messing about under the table.
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Dec 18, 2020 08:07
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I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to do this, I don't even know why I would want to, I just had a thought pop into my head and wondered what would happen. It sounds like a million things could go wrong, so I'm once again, definitely not interested in trying it. Can you run a board through a thickness planer on edge? What would happen if it fell while in the planer? Or would the rollers put enough downward pressure on it that it would probably be fine? Obviously once it's on its face, there's no problem, it's just lying on the bed of the planer inches away from the cutter.
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Dec 18, 2020 09:38
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more falafel please posted:I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to do this, I don't even know why I would want to, I just had a thought pop into my head and wondered what would happen. It sounds like a million things could go wrong, so I'm once again, definitely not interested in trying it. Why wouldn't you just cut it with a saw?
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Dec 18, 2020 10:17
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Rutibex posted:Why wouldn't you just cut it with a saw? Right, I'm not asking "should I do this", I'm just curious about what would happen. It seems like a terrible idea, and I haven't been able to rationalize why.
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Dec 18, 2020 10:47
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more falafel please posted:I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to do this, I don't even know why I would want to, I just had a thought pop into my head and wondered what would happen. It sounds like a million things could go wrong, so I'm once again, definitely not interested in trying it. Yes, I do it all the time. If it fell (because your bottom edge wasn't square at all is the main reason) basically nothing happens, it just stops cutting. It performs better when you have multiple boards of the same width ganged up, but can work fine with single boards of around 3/4" and thicker.
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Dec 18, 2020 14:09
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JEEVES420 posted:I have 2 of the 1617, one in router table and one with fixed/plunge base. They are really capable routers. more falafel please posted:I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to do this, I don't even know why I would want to, I just had a thought pop into my head and wondered what would happen. It sounds like a million things could go wrong, so I'm once again, definitely not interested in trying it. You can do this with narrow parts and I do it when I want parts to be exactly the same width like door frame parts. It's best to do a few parts at a time right next to each other so they give each other some support. I'd probably limit it to a 3-4:1ish height:base ratio? 1x4s are fine, but maybe not a 1x6. Make drat sure the narrow edge is good and square. I've wondered what would happen if a piece fell over but its never happened to me
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Dec 18, 2020 14:15
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Blistex posted:I was not aware that fixed base routers could do that. I assumed that you needed a plunge base to be able to adjust the depth with the hex rod. Here's the side of the 1617 fixed base:  You release a clamp and then turn that knob to adjust the height. And here's the plunge base:  The plunge base is intended to be adjusted while the router is running so you can do plunge cuts -- see that lever poking out from behind, on the left side of the image? What you do is set the depth stop (that metal rod with the ruler next to it) so that the maximum extension of the router is the depth you want. Then you go to minimum extension, do a pass, press the lever, push the router down a bit, release the lever, do a pass, etc. until you hit the maximum depth. It's easy to do when in handheld mode. But in a router table, I don't think it'd be any easier to use than the fixed base, and perhaps harder.
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Dec 18, 2020 16:04
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Additional info relevant to router talk: Power wise, the brushless 18v offerings by Dewalt, Makita, and Milwaukee really blur the lines between a trim router and what used to be the domain of the 1.5-1.75hp corded router. Even limited to 1/4" shank there is a massive amount you can do with one of these tools that falls outside of what one would normally think of as "trim router"
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Dec 18, 2020 16:26
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epalm posted:Literally just bought My First Router, a Bosch 1617 EVS. It checked all my newbie boxes, fixed base, variable speed, soft start, feedback for constant speed, at least 11 amps, 1/2" collet, etc. It was $250 CAD compared to other cheaper fixed base routers like the Mastercraft ($169 CAD) but those didn't even have variable speed control. One possible reason to regret that purchase is that you can get the same router with a fixed base and a plunge base for like $260 CAD when it goes on sale. I've had a lot of trouble with the depth adjustment on the fixed base sticking, but that may just be my own incompetence.
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Dec 18, 2020 16:52
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My most recent finished project: It's a book/laptop stand for my exercise bike, since the stock one is some impossibly-shaped piece of crap with a tiny lip that can barely retain anything. The wood is Chinese Elm (plus some miscellaneous scraps); I milled the boards myself from a "firewood" log I rescued. Thickness planed it down to 3/8" or so, cut it into two rectangles, hand-jointed them, edge-glued them, then used a French curve and my scrollsaw to cut the top shape.
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Dec 18, 2020 18:44
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