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I had a feeling this chapter would be Luffy finally getting a nice, good hit on Kaido. And I sure as poo poo ain't disappointed. Oda really made the 1,000th chapter count, good on him.
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Dec 27, 2020 04:12
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Quick question. What the gently caress is going on with Queen's neck on page 2?
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Dec 27, 2020 05:22
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lowercase16 posted:Quick question. What the gently caress is going on with Queen's neck on page 2? Go Go Gadget Neck. Why settle for a long neck when you can make it even longer with mad science?
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Dec 27, 2020 05:27
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A thing that makes me happy: OP Fans: *non-stop crazy, huge predictions for what'll happen in Chapter 1000* Chapter 1000: Luffy punches a guy really hard and says he'll be King of the Pirates OP Fans: HELL loving YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Dec 27, 2020 05:51
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Holy loving poo poo. All that training Luffy did absolutely paid off. Chapter 923 - Luffy's first fight with Kaido was him going all-out with his strongest attacks while Kaido was drunk and taking everything at full force, and he just shrugged it all off and KO'd Luffy with one attack. Chapter 1000 - Luffy floors Kaido with a single Gear Third attack. GEAR THIRD. loving christ One Piece is so good.
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Dec 27, 2020 06:26
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DizzyBum posted:Holy loving poo poo. All that training Luffy did absolutely paid off. holy poo poo wano started 91 chapters ago what the gently caress
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Dec 27, 2020 06:31
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I imagine this has been discussed to death over the years but I never paid attention to One Piece until recently. Am I supposed to support the protagonists of the story unconditionally? Like, Luffy and his crew are still pirates, and while they only seem to mess with the massive conspiracy that is the world government or the thousands of monstrous other pirates, it's more incidental of Luffy being an idiot shonen protagonist than anything else imo. It's just especially weird considering there exists a (seemingly ineffective) revolutionary force that's aiming to excise the bad parts of the World Government, what little characterization they've gotten notwithstanding. If it was a binary between the WG and the pirates it'd be easier. What exactly is the moral center of One Piece? Almost literally every other pirate behaves as befits the name, the Straw Hat fleet included.
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Dec 27, 2020 06:57
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A chapter like this shows how good Oda is and how well he understands what people like about the series. Not all creators get it the same way.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:14
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there is no moral compass in one piece, much the same as the real world. various characters talk at length about their belief systems and how they inform their decisions, both pirate and marine. the general concept of piracy in one piece to me has always read more as "sailing the seas and Doing Things but not sanctioned by the government." the world government has a vested interest in things staying exactly as they are, and limited mobility helps keep the world stuck as it is, with entire oceans of have-nots stuck living and dying on the same isolated rock they started out on while sickos in spacesuits buy slaves in their capital. It's just that most pirates are people that have gained enough power to sail, and are sick of being have-nots, so they turn to what we consider to be piracy. Luffy and the strawhats don't really engage in any of that behaviour, nami used to but it was under duress and brook was once on a more conventional ship but he's always been more interested in panties than cash.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:17
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One of the major themes of One Piece is to follow your passion to seek adventure. Characters without that passion or who have lost it are seen as old or weak, and those with a strong desire for adventure seem to always triumph over those who merely seek "power". This "desire for adventure" is inherently kinda selfish. Sure you can find and support other people who have goals that align with yours (without Luffy it's very unlikely Nami would ever fulfil her dream of mapping the oceans for example), but doing anything for your own satisfaction or self-interest is selfish by definition. Is Luffy a good person? It's hard to say. He has a strong moral compass, and acts on his own ideas of justice all the time, but its not like his goal is to make the world a better place. Can someone be driven by selfish desire but also be a good person?
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Dec 27, 2020 07:18
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Imho we’re not really supposed to consider the straw hats a shining bastion of morality since Luffy himself openly tells people to decide for themselves if he’s a hero. Luffy is generally a very nice person, who by extension generally tends to befriend nice people, but like, as much as I love Bon Clay he is very much a Not Very Good Person, and he’s hardly the only not great person Luffy fucks with. It’s worth noting that one of the unused versions of Romance Dawn (the first chapter) actually makes a distinction between pirates that just wanna go on adventures (Peacemains) and the more classical kind (don’t remember their title) and the series proper doesn’t make that distinction probably because there’s a degree of moral ambiguity even in crews like Whitebeard and Shanks whose new world territories were/are pretty much just places that were being waylaid by lovely pirates like Fishman Island.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:22
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LanceKing2200 posted:One of the major themes of One Piece is to follow your passion to seek adventure. Characters without that passion or who have lost it are seen as old or weak, and those with a strong desire for adventure seem to always triumph over those who merely seek "power". Of course they can. Selfishness isn't inherently bad, it's just something which should be balanced. Luffy has a (mostly) good balance of selfishness and selflessness. Piracy in One Piece is largely about freedom. Freedom to pursue your own dreams (within reason), freedom to not be oppressed or enslaved by others (WG and other forces), freedom from responsibilities and freedom to eat as much meat as you want.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:30
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Something I haven't seen commented on by others about Chapter 1000: Whenever someone is lying down on the ground, beaten and broken, crying and desperately pleading Luffy for help like Kinemon here, Luffy always delivers in the end - always. From Nami at Arlong Park; to Usopp at Water 7; to Robin at Enies Lobby; to Sanji at Whole Cake Island; and to Kinemon now, this is when Luffy kicks things into overdrive to make miracles happen. So, when Luffy says he will beat both Big Mom and Kaidou - here and now - with a squad of the Worst Generation backing him up, I believe him. When he says he will surpass them and become the Pirate King, I believe him. It's so electrifying to have this full faith and confidence in something or someone in the kind of world we all live in. I'm amazed Oda can conjure this feeling up in his readers, but I do feel it whole-heartedly here both with Luffy as a protagonist and Oda as a writer. Go, Luffy, go! 
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 07:32
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Luffy, because he's an idiot and grew up around Shanks, thinks that a pirate is a dude who sails around having adventures and partying all the time.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:34
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Also I'm pretty sure that the Straw Hat fleet (particularly the Barto faction) turning into a horrible gang of pirates who wreck stuff in Luffy's name was supposed to be a darkly funny "oh no, you guys don't get it at all" moment.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:36
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Aurubin posted:I imagine this has been discussed to death over the years but I never paid attention to One Piece until recently. Am I supposed to support the protagonists of the story unconditionally? Like, Luffy and his crew are still pirates, and while they only seem to mess with the massive conspiracy that is the world government or the thousands of monstrous other pirates, it's more incidental of Luffy being an idiot shonen protagonist than anything else imo. In the world of One Piece there are bad people in charge, and good people fighting against them, and I think we are to take the Revolutionaries to be presented as cool and good and effective, considering Sabo and Iva and other members of the Revolutionaries we've met. But there are also good Marines, even if the Navy as a whole is clearly propping up an evil system. This is an adventure, and part of that is meeting a bunch of people with a bunch of different takes on the world. The world is a big place with all sorts of people in it. Luffy ends up fighting really bad people quite often, and he ends up helping good people quite often. Because that's fun, and he's a good guy. Not because he feels obligated to fix the world or anything like that. He's not on a quest for justice. He's not defending his homeland. He's on an adventure. An adventure is about freedom and discovery. That's why he's a pirate, a free agent with no obligations, not a Revolutionary or a Marine, who feel certain obligations due to their ideologies. That said, one thing that's fun about this particular adventure is when Luffy encounters something horrible, he's free to do something about it. So in practical terms he spends most of the manga fighting against injustice, but his reasons are always personal friendship with someone affected by the injustice. If you think about it in strict utilitarian terms, you can see there's a problem here. You seem to be picking up on it with your question. The story is about freedom and adventure, and in a messed up/interesting world like this one you need power if you're going to have freedom. So by now Luffy has a great deal of power. But doesn't power come with an obligation? Isn't it selfish to use your power only for your own whims, and not to deliberately make the world better? To be honest, yes. There's a certain amorality to Luffy's worldview that isn't admirable. But the manga is never going to be about that, and it goes out of its way not to examine that contradiction. Because it's about adventure, not dealing with the responsibility of power or anything. To avoid this question, Luffy just, incidentally, ends up siding against any injustice he's got the ability to affect. There's not a lot more he could be doing to improve the world if he wasn't adventuring, as it happens. And this isn't just a contrivance- this is also part of Luffy's character. He's not going to pick his nose and say "boring" when someone's suffering. Feeling like he's got to help people, on an individual level, doesn't constrain his freedom. It's just what he wants to do. In short, Luffy is not who we should be. He's not someone who's responsible and setting out specifically to improve the world. Luffy is who we want to be. Having fun, being free. So you can take that and feel however you want with it. Personally, I feel happy.
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Dec 27, 2020 07:48
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It's partly the whole pandemic thing, but I've come to really appreciate that one of the core morals to this series is that strength comes from wanting to help others. Like, at the heart of all the crew's time skip training wasn't just their own personal goals, but their desire to improve to be able to save each other and help each others realize their dreams. That's beautiful! & something I don't think enough media really emphasizes. You mostly get training arcs to learn to punch harder or to "save the world" more broadly speaking. It's also neat seeing that outside of determination and will, Luffy's core power is just that people want to help him. While he still punches good, to make an unfair comparison that feels so much more satisfying than say DBZ's "wait until goku get's revived so he can save the day". Doing good things = making good allys = easier to achieve grand adventures = true power. One Piece is good ya'll.
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Dec 27, 2020 08:35
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The World Inferno posted:It's also neat seeing that outside of determination and will, Luffy's core power is just that people want to help him. Yes! I love this about Luffy. I'm blanking on the specifics, but at one point someone in the Marines (possibly at Marineford?) recognises a big part of what makes Luffy so dangerous to the WG is his charisma, his ability to rally others and unite unlikely allies against a common foe.
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Dec 27, 2020 08:55
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jassa posted:Yes! I love this about Luffy. I'm blanking on the specifics, but at one point someone in the Marines (possibly at Marineford?) recognises a big part of what makes Luffy so dangerous to the WG is his charisma, his ability to rally others and unite unlikely allies against a common foe. it was mihawk
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Dec 27, 2020 08:57
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Aurubin posted:I imagine this has been discussed to death over the years but I never paid attention to One Piece until recently. Am I supposed to support the protagonists of the story unconditionally? Like, Luffy and his crew are still pirates, and while they only seem to mess with the massive conspiracy that is the world government or the thousands of monstrous other pirates, it's more incidental of Luffy being an idiot shonen protagonist than anything else imo. There's a lot to be said about themes of friendship/adventure/etc, but in terms of morality, Luffy explicitly states fairly on in the story that he "doesn't want to share his meat" - that is, he's not acting out of an explicit moral compass or sense of "good vs evil". At the same time, despite not trying to be heroes the Straw Hats end up being a practical force for "good" almost everywhere they go, because they're sincerely warm hearted and caring people. If there's a non-political moral statement there it's something Shinto/Taoism shaped.
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Dec 27, 2020 08:59
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luffy is chaotic good
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Dec 27, 2020 09:04
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OK, I'm glad my core quibbles of disagreeing with some basic precepts of this manga hold up. I guess one thing I can't shake is that I mostly interpret the usage of "freedom" in the American sense, an excuse for imperialism abroad and being an rear end in a top hat with respect to the rights of others. Being a setting full of murderous pirates and an oppressive police state, I can't help but see that individualistic interpretation of the word as a pejorative. That said I'm doing what any nerd does and overanalyzing something intended for children. If they're not all dead or just a narrative stepping stone for Luffy becoming King of the My gut feeling is that Dragon is an rear end in a top hat too, because anyone who grew up with Garp as a father had to know leaving a child in his care was a really bad idea developmentally.
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Dec 27, 2020 09:14
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at the end of the day Luffy still helps the good people and beats up the bad people.
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Dec 27, 2020 09:31
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Aurubin posted:I guess one thing I can't shake is that I mostly interpret the usage of "freedom" in the American sense, an excuse for imperialism abroad and being an rear end in a top hat with respect to the rights of others. You mean like the World Government? The explicit antagonists of the story?
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Dec 27, 2020 09:44
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Aurubin posted:OK, I'm glad my core quibbles of disagreeing with some basic precepts of this manga hold up. I guess one thing I can't shake is that I mostly interpret the usage of "freedom" in the American sense, an excuse for imperialism abroad and being an rear end in a top hat with respect to the rights of others. Being a setting full of murderous pirates and an oppressive police state, I can't help but see that individualistic interpretation of the word as a pejorative. That said I'm doing what any nerd does and overanalyzing something intended for children. But being in the "freedom" faction, he does have colleagues who value (their own) freedom, but are also assholes. Blackbeard is probably the ultimate example. One Piece is not saying "freedom is good," it's saying "freedom is desirable." Assholes with freedom/power are... not presented as being all that good. The fact that Luffy is a friendly empathetic person who would never take away anyone else's freedom is basically the only thing that separates him from the villains. So, you know, if we're looking for a moral declaration there it is: being friendly and empathetic is good; don't take away others' freedom. In some ways this story is not particularly complicated. It's not about what side you're on, just don't be an rear end in a top hat. I don't fully agree with your interpretation of other pirates in general, though. The more we learn about the Whitebeard pirates in particular, the more they seem like an ultimately benevolent force, even if it was wrapped up in Whitebeard's personal desires. I don't think "selfish rear end in a top hat" describes pirates in this story any more than "authoritarian rear end in a top hat" describes the Navy. There's more individual variation than that. There are individually good pirates just like there are good Marines, even if neither group would really be described as "good" on the whole. Pirates, generally speaking, steal. Kind of by definition. But when you look at how evil those in power are, not just the World Nobles, but individual counties nobility, there are plenty of people to steal from without making the world a worse place. Including other pirates, especially in the New World where pirate crews are basically independent nations. This is somewhat outside the scope of the story, and other pirates stealing stuff off-screen are kind of an incidental detail, but we don't have to imagine that they're all assholes, even if piracy is in fact explicitly about using force to take stuff. quote:My gut feeling is that Dragon is an rear end in a top hat too, because anyone who grew up with Garp as a father had to know leaving a child in his care was a really bad idea developmentally. But more to the point, I think Dragon actually cares about improving the world. And I think he got that from Garp. We don't know why he left Luffy in Garp's care, but as brutal and irl abusive as Garp was, he's presented in the story as giving "tough love" that results in a strong and confident kid. That's not at all how things actually work, and if we don't treat it as a cartoon situation it's more than a little problematic, but I think we're meant to see Garp's parenting as ultimately good.
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Dec 27, 2020 09:47
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Not gonna lie, I always kinda figured that the insane poo poo that Garp puts Luffy through was just his and his son’s own childhoods but Luffy was just a crybaby weenie for his formative years so where Garp and Dragon were all “ah heck yeah let’s fight tigers barehanded as seven year old children” Luffy was kind of a punk who couldn’t do that till he was like twelve. But in all seriousness, I am gonna be legit shocked if Dragon’s motivation isn’t at least partly wrapped up in seeing his dad crying or something cause he can’t stop the Celestial Dragons from committing an atrocity which causes his defection from the Navy.
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Dec 27, 2020 10:09
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I'm looking to finding out why, despite not often, if at all, being mentioned when people are comparing sheer strength, Dragon is nonetheless referred to as the Most Dangerous Man In The World.
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Dec 27, 2020 12:01
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because hes fighting for ideals and espousing an ideology that is directly opposed to the authority of the world government, the dragons, and imu. anyone that could even just potentially consider tugging at the loose strings of this tapestry gets the full weight of the power behind whatever conspiracy they're all behind dropped on their head (see: buster call at ohara), let alone someone charismatic enough to lead an insurrectionist force like dragon.
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Dec 27, 2020 12:11
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Luffy is a largely benevolent force of chaos. He's a remover of problems more than he's a creator of solutions, but he respects, helps, and supports the people who want to build something better in his wake. The Revolutionary Army probably aren't the people who'll defeat the World Government, but they'll definitely be making a new, better world while Luffy wanders off to find new adventures. Remember that being the Pirate King isn't really about ruling anything to Luffy - it's about being 'the freest person on the sea'.
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Dec 27, 2020 12:53
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A couple of things that stood out to me: Marco holding off king and queen at the same time. That’s huge, it really solidifies whitebeard’s crew as the strongest if his #2 can hold down kaido’s heaviest hitters. If oden’s journal predicts Kaido going down in twenty years, that makes his flashback more weighty. Even if he could have taken down kaido right away, he didn’t to protect his people because he knew they were being held hostage, and instead opted to protect them and not get them killed. That’s pretty epic. Going along with the predictions, the journal said a “big figure” predicted these things. So we have another person that somehow knew these things would happen? Not sure who that could be, but they’re dead now. What was the mechanism for predicting the future? Maybe that was Roger? Maybe that’s why that whole crew laughed when they found OP. They knew their journey couldn’t end in directly meaningful change, but they could inspire it. I can’t say I personally am drawn to the “chosen by destiny narrative”, but this may be the one story I’m willing to give the author a pass, because the rest of the quality of the story is so good. Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 14:52
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Ultimately I really don't feel like this is a matter of "Luffy was chosen by destiny." It's more something along the lines of "There are going to be people who learn about the vast expanses of the world when Roger dies, and take to the seas to explore it." You'll notice specifically that Oden's log mentions the people who change the world will be the next generation. Not one specific man who was blessed by the past to become a savior to us all because of who his parents are. Luffy is naturally going to be that person, but not because fate deemed him so. He was just the person who fit the mold of what the world needed and was able to understand what needed to be done in his own dumbass way. Scratchman Apoo fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 15:37
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Scratchman Apoo posted:Ultimately I really don't feel like this is a matter of "Luffy was chosen by destiny." It's more something along the lines of "There are going to be people who learn about the vast expanses of the world when Roger dies, and take to the seas to explore it." Someone: "The prophecy says-" Luffy: "BORING"
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Dec 27, 2020 16:42
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Last Celebration posted:Not gonna lie, I always kinda figured that the insane poo poo that Garp puts Luffy through was just his and his son’s own childhoods but Luffy was just a crybaby weenie for his formative years so where Garp and Dragon were all “ah heck yeah let’s fight tigers barehanded as seven year old children” Luffy was kind of a punk who couldn’t do that till he was like twelve. It wouldnt be surprising at all that Garp's reaction at home to the Rocks incident caused Dragon to fully commit to being a revolutionary.
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Dec 27, 2020 16:58
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Luffy's idea of the Pirate King is that he wants to be the freest man in the world, but he doesn't want to take other people's freedom away. the world of One Piece is an awful place that deprives people of their freedom for the benefit of the Celestial Dragons I think Luffy's interpretation of that includes that if he can't help other people to be more free, then he isn't the freest at all
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Dec 27, 2020 17:17
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mabels big day posted:Luffy walking past big mom and kaido may be the best part of Wano yet. this struck me as a direct homage to DBZ where Goku calmly walks past a huge Nappa yelling in his face to go talk to a hurt Krillin and Gohan
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Dec 27, 2020 17:37
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Official chap still seven days away!!!??
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Dec 27, 2020 17:50
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Aurubin posted:If they're not all dead or just a narrative stepping stone for Luffy becoming King of the Sort of related, but one of the Romance Dawn chapters actually distinguished between the two types of pirates (hostile/pillaging vs. peaceful/adventuring) with the terms Morgania and Peace Main. The distinction is dropped for the actual series but you can put the various pirate crews on a sliding scale of those terms. There are definitely other pirate crews in the series besides the Straw Hats that are benevolent or at least not hostile towards others. The general worldview seems to be that pirates are bad, though, because of the vast amount of pirates that fight and pillage and how overt their actions are.
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Dec 27, 2020 18:09
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Snazzy Frocks posted:Official chap still seven days away!!!?? Yep.
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Dec 27, 2020 18:29
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God it's so cool how Luffy punched Kaido the same way as their first encounter but showing his growth massiel since then.
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Dec 27, 2020 19:08
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Bleck posted:I'm looking to finding out why, despite not often, if at all, being mentioned when people are comparing sheer strength, Dragon is nonetheless referred to as the Most Dangerous Man In The World. Isn't he referred to as "the most wanted man in the world"?
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Dec 27, 2020 22:18
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