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slidebite posted:Wow. That's a whole lotta crap. Maybe it has something to do with the lease? edit: has to be some weird tax thing, it’s owned by Delaware corporation “AIRCOL 25”, “AIRCOL 24” and 23 are other airbuses they operate and I’m not going to keep punching that in hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 1, 2021 |
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Jan 1, 2021 20:20
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From what I understand of how airliner ownership works, it is exceedingly rare for an airline to just own a plane outright in its own name and fly it. It's a giant hosed up spider web of leasing agencies and shell companies and piecemeal ownership and contract operators and codeshares and maintenance agreements.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:32
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Sagebrush posted:From what I understand of how airliner ownership works, it is exceedingly rare for an airline to just own a plane outright in its own name and fly it. It's a giant hosed up spider web of leasing agencies and shell companies and piecemeal ownership and contract operators and codeshares and maintenance agreements. All to save $5 a year on taxes! 
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Jan 1, 2021 20:34
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^^^ avoiding formally importing something into another country can save you a ton of headache and taxes I thought the actual airliner would be registered to GECAS or something and then they set everything else up.
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Jan 1, 2021 20:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTpcctMNMYg
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Jan 1, 2021 20:46
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I genuinely thought the controller was gonna finish the sentence "Sioux 753, make a 180° turn left and leave my airspace'
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Jan 1, 2021 23:32
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Midjack posted:All to save $5 a year on taxes! And liability
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Jan 2, 2021 00:25
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For anyone who doesn't know the Phoenix area, the PHX class B is a special kind of hell where it's a minor miracle there aren't weekly mid-air collisions. PHX itself is obviously busy, and it's surrounded by about a half dozen airports (all sitting under the PHX class B airspace shelf) that all have at least one flight school, most of which cater to foreign contract students with a grasp of English that's often somewhere between "tenuous" and "incomprehensible". The area is also surrounded by terrain, residential areas, and airspace that forces those flight schools to all share a relatively small number of very crowded practice areas, so it's pretty much barely controlled chaos. simplefish posted:I genuinely thought the controller was gonna finish the sentence "Sioux 753, make a 180° turn left and leave my airspace' I've heard that happen when I was instructing at TUS, to a student from Transpac. The student absolutely couldn't follow basic altitude and heading instructions (to the point where there was a serious risk they'd mid-air someone), so after a few minutes of flailing around with the approach controller, the controller gave them a heading out of the airspace and told them not to come back without an instructor on board. The student then responded to that by heading pretty much west from Tucson (Phoenix is north), so it took the controller another couple of minutes to get them heading back towards their base and not California. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 00:29
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Oh, and since I just realized I posted this in the AIRPLANES!! thread and not the PILOTS!! thread, the student in that recording definitely should not be flying solo. I mean I'm not a CFI, I don't know how often you get someone who seems ready and then just totally freezes up in the air, but he's not even able to fly an assigned heading and he seems to have completely forgotten what a traffic pattern is. He definitely needs some remedial dual training
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Jan 2, 2021 00:34
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e - not the football thread
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Jan 2, 2021 00:36
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Sagebrush posted:Oh, and since I just realized I posted this in the AIRPLANES!! thread and not the PILOTS!! thread, the student in that recording definitely should not be flying solo. I mean I'm not a CFI, I don't know how often you get someone who seems ready and then just totally freezes up in the air, but he's not even able to fly an assigned heading and he seems to have completely forgotten what a traffic pattern is. He definitely needs some remedial dual training My experience instructing was that students pretty much always brain-dump to some degree on solos, so my job was to make sure they were at a point where they'd seen enough "non standard" stuff that they could either figure out what they were being asked to do, or were competent enough to ask for help if they didn't quite understand it. The situation in the video was probably exacerbated by the way UND trains their students. From having instructed for them (although not in Phoenix) UND expects their students to absolutely 100% follow an absurdly regimented set of operating procedures (when I left, the manual that covered how to fly basic maneuvers in a Cessna 172 was somewhere around 400 pages), which leads to students running into situations that are outside the "UND bubble" and struggling a bit to figure out how to deal with something that isn't in the manual/SOP's.
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Jan 2, 2021 01:04
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Sagebrush posted:From what I understand of how airliner ownership works, it is exceedingly rare for an airline to just own a plane outright in its own name and fly it. It's a giant hosed up spider web of leasing agencies and shell companies and piecemeal ownership and contract operators and codeshares and maintenance agreements. More than that - each engine is owned by a different spiders-web of shell companies, and spares are different shell-companies again.
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Jan 2, 2021 09:23
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The 737 MAX is back baby
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Jan 2, 2021 09:46
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Captain Postal posted:More than that - each engine is owned by a different spiders-web of shell companies, and spares are different shell-companies again. Speaking of which, how’s Trump’s 757 coming along?
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Jan 2, 2021 10:00
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dupersaurus posted:And liability Nope the lease agreements almost certainly place liability on the lessee and also the lessor is probably wholly owned by the lessee. The reason likely has more to do with international trade issues than anything else. Possibly it is a corporate income tax transfer payments mechanism as well. Current accounting standards require these leases to be capitalized on the balance sheet, but of course a subsidiary of the parent already would be. So it doesn't really reduce transparency. I don't really grok why anyone would be upset by these legal arrangements. Oh no a big complicated business has big complicated legal structure. Okay? Mortabis fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 16:57
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So what is the purpose of these big, complicated legal structures?
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Jan 2, 2021 17:01
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azflyboy posted:My experience instructing was that students pretty much always brain-dump to some degree on solos, so my job was to make sure they were at a point where they'd seen enough "non standard" stuff that they could either figure out what they were being asked to do, or were competent enough to ask for help if they didn't quite understand it. When I did my first solo it was at Detroit City Airport which is Class D but so slow that we were usually the only plane there. Except that after I took off alone a fleet of private jets from a visiting NFL team arrived. The controller gave me some instructions to go into a holding pattern which I had never heard before but from context clues I was able to figure it out and we all landed safely. My instructor was very pleased with me. 
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Jan 2, 2021 17:05
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Mortabis posted:
Why is it complicated? It's a drat bus in the air. You pay for a ticket and it takes you from A to B. Whenever you see complicated legal structures, it tends to be artful dodging of taxes, worker's rights or other regulations. It's never for a wholesome, positive reason.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:18
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Ola posted:Why is it complicated? It's a drat bus in the air. You pay for a ticket and it takes you from A to B. Whenever you see complicated legal structures, it tends to be artful dodging of taxes, worker's rights or other regulations. It's never for a wholesome, positive reason. Now I'm not going to go to the mat for international capitalism here but airliners are a lot more expensive than buses.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:44
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Ola posted:Why is it complicated? It's a drat bus in the air. You pay for a ticket and it takes you from A to B. Whenever you see complicated legal structures, it tends to be artful dodging of taxes, worker's rights or other regulations. It's never for a wholesome, positive reason. They’re more like ships in the air, especially internationally. Even if you aren’t using a flag of convenience and using third world crews ship ownership is complex too.
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Jan 2, 2021 17:46
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StandardVC10 posted:Now I'm not going to go to the mat for international capitalism here but airliners are a lot more expensive than buses. I won't disagree with that, but I don't see why a bigger number on the price tag demands splitting the company up, not employing pilots but hiring them on short term contracts from a "recruitment company" which you also happen to own etc. hobbesmaster posted:They’re more like ships in the air, especially internationally. Even if you aren’t using a flag of convenience and using third world crews ship ownership is complex too. Nope. A ship is a single object and a ship owner can be a single entity. It could hardly be simpler. Where I come from there is a strong culture for small fishing operations, many of them are one guy with one boat. No need to get Bermuda involved. If it's complex, it is usually for the reason of dodging taxes, rights or regulations, not because the business operation demands it. It is so ingrained in shipping culture that we take it for granted. Sadly even some Norwegian car ferries that never sailed outside the coast have Caribbean flags.
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Jan 2, 2021 18:09
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hobbesmaster posted:They’re more like ships in the air, especially internationally. Even if you aren’t using a flag of convenience and using third world crews ship ownership is complex too. More luxury than a ship really. More like a cruise-liner, but in the air.
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Jan 2, 2021 18:46
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Platystemon posted:So what is the purpose of these big, complicated legal structures? There is a vast universe of reasons why you might want to complicate the legal structure of your organization, but I'll give you a few examples here, some of which have been discussed obliquely: 1. Keeping the planes owned by a US entity may avoid having to deal with import-export rules in the countries the airline operates in 2. Keeping the planes owned by a Delaware entity allows some lawsuits to be dealt with in the Delaware court of chancery, which is a preferred litigation venue because of the large body of caselaw developed there. Many issues have already been resolved in Delaware courts and it makes the law clearer.
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Jan 2, 2021 19:33
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hobbesmaster posted:flag of convenience and using third world crews
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Jan 2, 2021 19:48
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Certain assets are generally held and transferred as legal entities because it's more than just the item but also the surrounding infrastructure, records, parts, agreements, etc.
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Jan 2, 2021 20:39
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Ola posted:Why is it complicated? It's a drat bus in the air. You pay for a ticket and it takes you from A to B. Whenever you see complicated legal structures, it tends to be artful dodging of taxes, worker's rights or other regulations. It's never for a wholesome, positive reason. There can be room for triggery in buses too. I've heard there are estonian charter buses running in FInland, driven by estonian crews and fueled in Finland by estonian tanker trucks.
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Jan 2, 2021 21:06
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Saukkis posted:There can be room for triggery in buses too. I've heard there are estonian charter buses running in FInland, driven by estonian crews and fueled in Finland by estonian tanker trucks. Oh you are absolutely right. There is no business activity too small for shenanigans.
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Jan 2, 2021 21:28
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Midjack posted:Aeronautical Insanity: Remember: If you gonna fly, dont lose your door. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL3aFdFBwu0 Or if you do, at least try to have some equanimity about it
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Jan 3, 2021 10:04
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old & busted: backcountry flying YouTube new hotness: cartel flying TikToks where your airspeed and most other instruments aren't working, but you sure do have a double-DIN DVD player installed 
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Jan 3, 2021 19:48
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Mortabis posted:There is a vast universe of reasons why you might want to complicate the legal structure of your organization, but I'll give you a few examples here, some of which have been discussed obliquely: The large body of business friendly caselaw you mean right
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Jan 3, 2021 22:42
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rscott posted:The large body of business friendly caselaw you mean right It's corporations suing each other, so no. If you, not a resident of Delaware, sue a Delaware company, that's a federal case via diversity jurisdiction.
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Jan 4, 2021 00:19
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https://twitter.com/MaranieRae/status/1346672636835880961?s=20 Hol-ee poo poo...
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Jan 6, 2021 08:12
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20 years for that.quote:49 U.S. Code § 46504. Interference with flight crew members and attendants
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Jan 6, 2021 10:10
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Sagebrush posted:20 years for that. Got tense when I heard “NOW.” juxtaposed with “these are the people we came to wipe out!” Was AA, what’s the likelihood of using the manifest and the video to punish any of these people? I would be absolutely horrified if I happened to be on that flight and they deserve it. Worst case cancel the return flight on them and leave em in DC.
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Jan 6, 2021 10:23
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Where are the doctor‐beating goons when you need ’em? Oh wait. They are themselves fascists.
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Jan 6, 2021 10:26
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hellotoothpaste posted:Got tense when I heard “NOW.” juxtaposed with “these are the people we came to wipe out!” American absolutely knows exactly who those people are, and they're well within their rights to ban them from travel with the airline, but they're probably so desperate for passengers that they won't do it.
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Jan 6, 2021 23:46
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That’s what cartels are for.
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Jan 6, 2021 23:58
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aphid_licker posted:This is a cool video combining photos and computer graphics reconstructions of the cabin of the R-100 airship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-4P-6b3lFI Seems airships online is producing videos now.
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Jan 7, 2021 19:39
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Nebakenezzer posted:Seems airships online is producing videos now. Would be a shame if someone started a youtube channel and beat them at their game...
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Jan 7, 2021 19:49
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Department of Justice, Office of Public Affairs posted:FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, January 7, 2021 https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion
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Jan 7, 2021 22:40
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