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Ethiser posted:Tem Rey would have probably been an okay to good dad once he finished with the whole Gundam thing and the One Year War was over. Tem's really mostly a realistic depiction of someone who suffers a TBI and its kind of depressing.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:17
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Ethiser posted:Tem Rey would have probably been an okay to good dad once he finished with the whole Gundam thing and the One Year War was over. He seems to have been a good dad in the past, since the one flashback we have of him several years previous is urging Kamaria to come to space with him and then clarifying that he wants to show Amuro the colonies being built, and Amuro seems excited/happy about what's coming in the flashback despite the fact he's leaving his mom. He also seems to have had good intentions in building the Gundam, and the impression I got was that he became obsessed with finishing the Gundam with the justification that he was doing it to protect Amuro but never realized that he was hurting Amuro by his absence regardless of how good his apparent intention and that it's just another way the war ruined lives. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 23:30
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Ethiser posted:Tem Rey would have probably been an okay to good dad once he finished with the whole Gundam thing and the One Year War was over. I'd say that Tem's a kind of bad dad by default. Like, he's the type to get described in the memoirs as "Looking back, my father was trying, in his way. Or at least, he told himself he was trying." He's in a situation that makes it worse through no fault of his own, and most Gundam parents are even worse, making him look better, but Tem just isn't a good dad.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:35
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I imagine his memoir would only describe him as "trying in his way" or something similar during the war, rather than as a whole. Which, I'm not sure I'd blame the guy for being a bit preoccupied and not the best dad in the midst of a war honestly. He seemed like a good dad during the flashback.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:05
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In Tem's defense, his obsession with completing the Gundam pretty much saved the world from a Zeon victory. Kind of like how Bright was a poo poo dad to Hathaway but his workoholism helped prevent the Axis drop.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:25
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Yeah, I mean billions died. Dude was doing okay in context I think.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:27
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Kanos posted:In Tem's defense, his obsession with completing the Gundam pretty much saved the world from a Zeon victory. I'm pretty sure we had this discussion before. To save some time, should we skip through the bit where I point out all the narrative decisions I think indicates Bright is meant to be taken as a better dad than Tem, the response where people bring up the different circumstances and argue that they reduce the utility of the comparison, and my talk about how the situations are similar enough to warrant bringing up to reach the "Reasonable people may differ" phase? I did bring some new stuff to talk about if that's the case. Apparently Gundam Info did a poll of the best pilots in the UC... And they got it wrong. Sure, first two are right, but Kamille is third, Banana is fifth despite being carried by his suit through the whole series, Chronicle makes the list at all, and then there's the omissions, with neither Yazan nor Johnny getting as much as a nod. Poor show.
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Jan 5, 2021 05:32
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Uso getting fourth is dope even if I'd put him above Camille. Glad to see some people realize he's a legend. Char at two is a joke through he spent half of mgs, and nearly all of zeta and cca getting chumped. haman deserves to be up there. Chronicle shouldn't even be in the top hundred scirocco gets beaten by lala and ple somehow. The bottom of the list is insane. Full list for the non japanese readers 1.Amuro 2.Char 3.Kamille 4.Uso 5.Haman 6.Banana 7.Judeau 8.Chronicle 9.Lala 9.Puru 11.Scirocco 11.Ramba Ral 11.Katejina Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 05:44
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm pretty sure we had this discussion before. To save some time, should we skip through the bit where I point out all the narrative decisions I think indicates Bright is meant to be taken as a better dad than Tem, the response where people bring up the different circumstances and argue that they reduce the utility of the comparison, and my talk about how the situations are similar enough to warrant bringing up to reach the "Reasonable people may differ" phase? Banagher is actually shown to be a fairly competent pilot. The Unicorn is a strong suit but it isn't particularly better than the units around it without going into Destroy Mode which for a good chunk of the series is as much a potential negative as positive. I don't think he's top five but he's at least in the realm of "Is such a strong loving Newtype he's basically got to be a good pilot" Johnny Ridden isn't actually that remarkable a pilot. He's certainly good but he's one of the few errata aces whose biggest successes are basically all tied to mooks. I think one of his mangas establishes he fought a Full Armor Gundam in a Gelgoog, Lost, and then came back in a custom bullshit Zaku and won but that's his high mark. Yazan on the other hand is a complete shitwrecker who was shown to be capable of keeping up with some of the most elite pilots in the setting despite not being a Newtype. He's absolutely a top-tier pilot though probably doomed to lower on the list due to not getting the +10 To Good PIlot that all Newtypes get by innate. Honestly that list basically seems to boil down to "Which Newtype Pilot is The best" for obvious reasons but it kinda means no non-Newtypes are getting on there because the number of plot-protagonist Newtypes eclipses everything else. Edit: Well and Ramba Ral because Ramba Ral is 35 years old. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 06:13
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Surprised Marida isn't up there. Or is she more of a western fan thing?
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Jan 5, 2021 06:30
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What are the odds they'll do a poll like this for the other continuities? I guess none of them have as much content as UC, though. So a Top 10 AC Pilots would be just based on Wing.
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Jan 5, 2021 06:48
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Gaius Marius posted:Char at two is a joke through he spent half of mgs, and nearly all of zeta and cca getting chumped. haman deserves to be up there. He's the only Zeon pilot in Mobile Suit Gundam to survive multiple encounters with Amuro. That alone is a mark of skill on his part. I also cannot fathom how people walk away from Char's Counterattack thinking he gets "chumped", when he and Amuro spend several minutes destroying all of each other's weapons, to the point they end up punching each other in their giant robots before the fight is decided. ImpAtom posted:Yazan on the other hand is a complete shitwrecker who was shown to be capable of keeping up with some of the most elite pilots in the setting despite not being a Newtype. He's absolutely a top-tier pilot though probably doomed to lower on the list due to not getting the +10 To Good PIlot that all Newtypes get by innate. Yazan kind of is a Newtype. Or at least, he may potentially have been one. The first time Scirocco meets Yazan he emphasizes the import of Yazan's feelings about things twice or three times in very pointed ways that seem to imply he thinks Yazan is or could be a Newtype, and when Yazan captures Reccoa he feels a power coming from her but refuses to acknowledge it because he's so freaked out. I get the impression Yazan is someone who could have been a Newtype, was on the cusp of awakening as one and turned away from it. ImpAtom posted:Edit: Well and Ramba Ral because Ramba Ral is 35 years old. Is Chronicle a Newtype? I don't recall him being one, but he doesn't have nearly the focus in Victory you'd expect at the start so that's not saying much really.
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Jan 5, 2021 06:59
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ImpAtom posted:Johnny Ridden isn't actually that remarkable a pilot. He's certainly good but he's one of the few errata aces whose biggest successes are basically all tied to mooks. I think one of his mangas establishes he fought a Full Armor Gundam in a Gelgoog, Lost, and then came back in a custom bullshit Zaku and won but that's his high mark. Return of Johnny Ridden gives him a lot more. He throws down with Yazan, puts in a good showing against Char, and defeats a Cyber Newtype in a Gaplant with a Core Booster. (It also lets Char get a rematch with Yazan.) wdarkk posted:Surprised Marida isn't up there. Or is she more of a western fan thing? Nah, she did pretty well in the big Japanese poll for the 40th. I think this is a small poll sample thing as much as anything, if people didn't just file her with her sisters.
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Jan 5, 2021 07:00
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There's a reason The Origin adds a chapter where Char wrecks an entire unit of GM's by himself in just his Zaku II*, to remind people why he's supposed to be a big deal *well that and to give his Zaku a proper final sortie and to also explain why the White Base goes into space without a complement of GM's(since the ones he slaughters were the unit meant for them
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Jan 5, 2021 07:21
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Char cannot hold a candle to Amuro in the Nu Gundam and I will drag this take with me to my grave. Amuro was multitasking while fighting Char. Char smells like butt!!!!!!!
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Jan 5, 2021 07:41
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Amuro was taking attacks of opportunity as he kited Char, but it's obvious his focus was on Char, and Amuro shows frustration at a failure to kill him on a few occasions. If you need any proof then you need only look at what happens when he gets out of the Nu Gundam. He goes in to Axis to check if Bright has finished setting the explosives, because Bright and his team are the ones concentrating on taking down Axis, not Amuro, and then as soon as he steps in, he realizes they must not be done and spends literally every second in there talking at and trying to kill Char.
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Jan 5, 2021 08:00
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'Hol up. Where's my boy Shiro Amada? Sure he deserted and became a pacifist with his Zeon Honey. But how many of those pilots could have beaten a Zaku using a Ball?
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Jan 5, 2021 08:38
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He was on his way to the party, then he saw Ramba Ral, shat himself in terror and was last seen shaking and mumbling about Goufs.
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Jan 5, 2021 08:45
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Also he's a bad pilot.
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Jan 5, 2021 08:46
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The 08th MS Team does not hesitate to show the vast gulf in capability between an ordinary pilot and an Ace.
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Jan 5, 2021 08:49
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I suppose it doesn't, but it does so in laziest way possible and just makes the entire team idiots, rather than their enemy exceptional.
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Jan 5, 2021 08:56
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The fight choreography in 8th MS is the worst and that fight takes the cake.
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Jan 5, 2021 10:08
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Oh no doubt. But it definitely hammers home the point that compared to the real aces Shiro, skillwise, simply can't compare.
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Jan 5, 2021 10:25
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Haman should be higher. Lady was an absolute beast.
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Jan 5, 2021 12:20
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Shiro going up against the Zaku/Dom test type was the only time he really managed a ballsy kill. He nearly wrecked his 79G multiple times when he ran off like a moron rather than using unit tactics. Then there was the time he went completely insane and tried to disable three Zaku's with nonlethals on foot. Honestly Karen should have been the team leader, but she gets shafted later in the show.
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Jan 5, 2021 18:43
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The team was better than its leader.
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Jan 5, 2021 18:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:Shiro going up against the Zaku/Dom test type was the only time he really managed a ballsy kill. Really?
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Jan 5, 2021 18:47
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Pyronic posted:But how many of those pilots could have beaten a Zaku using a Ball? a fair amount considering that was the mainstay of federation space forces for a while
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Jan 5, 2021 18:52
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Shiro isn't even the best ball pilot we know about.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:17
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Chronicle on the list at all, let alone above Katejina is just wrong. Katejina was treated as a mobile suit prodigy even before she really started awakening her newtype powers, and I believe she clowned on almost everyone she fought besides Uso, and even Uso couldn’t really take her in any of her suits without luck or newtype bullshit And Shiro is being a little underrated here. At the very least, Norris was like “hey this guy will be a pretty good fight for me to die in” even before he discovered his thing for Aina. Yeah he was more amused than anything, but that’s more fucks than he ever gave Karen or Sanders in that encounter
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Jan 5, 2021 19:23
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8th ms team is dumb and the screenwriters/storyboarders should feel ashamed
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Jan 5, 2021 19:24
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So Shiro vs Aina: Ball Type-K vs Rick Dom Prototype Zaku Ends in a draw 1-1 Umon Samon: Ball with a Gundam faceplate on it (destroying its balance) vs THREE actual Rick Doms Ball is shot down but the pilot survives and took out all three Rick Doms (another page on gundam.fandom says he took out SIX Rick Doms instead)
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Jan 5, 2021 19:31
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Lala was like in two fights and only took out some grunts. She was scary because funnels were this new and scary weapon, not because she's a great pilot or anything. Banagher relied on his completely overpowered suit. Like, he didn't do a drat thing and only really beat any aces through newtype magic. Like he beat the neo zeong by somehow causing it to disintegrate and he shot the mobile armor who let the shot go through.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:32
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So who is the consensus #2 UC pilot? I feel like Char just kind of slots in there because there is so much noise past Amuro/the rivalry with Amuro makes it neat to have him be second. Most of Char's big feats are not dying to Amuro which admittedly is pretty good. I guess surviving fighting Haman and Sirrocco goes there but now it's looking like his claim to fame past the very early OYW is living. An AU only list could be fun but the standards vary so wildly it would be hard to compare. Either way Domon best pilot.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:43
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Second best probably could be Yazan or Haman now that I think about it. Yazan didn’t seem too impressed by any of the newtypes and only lost due to biosensor shenanigans. Haman is a crazy powerful newtype but she was able to stop piloting for an entire year and still had to hold back against Judau despite how he was a pretty decent pilot by that point in the war. Or I guess you could bring up those OYW folks that somehow amassed significantly more kills than Amuro like that Tenneth Yung dude
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Jan 5, 2021 19:51
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Rabbi Tupac posted:An AU only list could be fun but the standards vary so wildly it would be hard to compare. Either way Domon best pilot. Domon would still be in the middle of his shining finger declaration when Mika starts clubbing him over the head.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:55
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obvious mquve is best pilot
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Jan 5, 2021 19:55
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wdarkk posted:Umon Samon: Just before the Rick Dom squad he's shown taking out come in to things, Umon is shown talking to a GM pilot as they take cover on an asteroid and Umon says he's taken out 3 Rick Doms. We see him take out one of those, and the Ball's low recoil cannon basically one-shots it when he hits it in the chest. It's a deliberate shot though, and physical comedy aside, is actually the most skillful moment in the story for him. However, the main fight you're talking about is a terrible example of his skill, because it's basically Umon Jar-Jar Binks'ing his way through the fight and 2 of the 3 kills are basically due to pratfalls. He tries to fire at one Rick Dom, misses and the recoil throws his Ball in to a spin; a spin that means he ends up unintentionally evading every attack the Rick Doms make before his unit's cannon smashes in to one of the Rick Doms by accident. Which explodes the Rick Dom (along with his unit's cannon). I don't know about how consistent the idea of a Ball's cannon one-shotting a Rick Dom is (it seems reasonable, really) but a cannon smashing in to a Rick Dom and blowing it up definitely isn't consistent, even if the manga wants to go "anything spinning fast in space becomes a weapon" as an explanation in the next panel. If the unit was spinning that fast, Umon would probably have passed out from g-forces, if not died. Then, Umon grabs a small asteroid to steady himself, continues spinning despite that and ends up smashing the asteroid in to another Rick Dom. Again, by accident. After which, he finally stops spinning and the leader of the trio confronts him. Umon has no weapon though, so he just ejects the Gundam face, which smashes in to the Rick Dom and explodes it. Which, it's at least deliberate, but is also comically silly and makes the Rick Dom look like it's made of paper. The entire fight, the manga itself in general, is told with a comic tone. Which is fine. It works for what it is. I wouldn't be taking that as a sign of skill on Umon's part though, especially in comparison to Shiro. The InviciBall is silly, but at least Shiro was moving with intention. The B-Gundam is physical comedy, and not actual skill. Umon taking out a Rick Dom earlier in the story with a targeted shot is a far better sign of skill on his part. Monaghan posted:Lala was like in two fights and only took out some grunts. She was scary because funnels were this new and scary weapon, not because she's a great pilot or anything. Eh...Char thought Lalah a good enough pilot that he was ready to make her the commander of his unit, above himself and Lalah was actually fighting equally with Amuro for a short while. In a big, bulky mobile armor with no melee weapons. I'd say that alone is a pretty good indication of skill. Arcsquad12 posted:Domon would still be in the middle of his shining finger declaration when Mika starts clubbing him over the head. One of the first moments we see of Domon in the show is as a group of 10 or 15 mobsters surround him with automatic machine guns, and all of them fire a full clip each in to him from a variety of angles and heights as Domon is trying to protect a kid. He catches some of the bullets, and deflects the rest. Later in the show, he uses a rusted sword to take out 3 mobile suits in one strike. On foot. Mika wouldn't stand a chance in hell. tsob fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 19:57
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Post-00 movie Setsuna will just understand his opponents with magic particles to ensure his total victory
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Jan 5, 2021 19:57
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Arcsquad12 posted:Domon would still be in the middle of his shining finger declaration when Mika starts clubbing him over the head. Nah.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:00
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