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Said it before but I’m a big fan of Feast. There’s not as much action, but I don’t read the books for action to begin with. There’s some great character moments, especially with Jaime and Cersei.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:06
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chaosapiant posted:Said it before but I’m a big fan of Feast. There’s not as much action, but I don’t read the books for action to begin with. There’s some great character moments, especially with Jaime and Cersei. I agree. I hit that same wall with feast the first time, but honestly how could you not after the rush of action that clash had. Feast and even more dance felt like a slog the first time, but on re-read Feast is my favorite of any of the books.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:25
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Proust Malone posted:I agree. I hit that same wall with feast the first time, but honestly how could you not after the rush of action that clash had. Feast and even more dance felt like a slog the first time, but on re-read Feast is my favorite of any of the books. That is a loving great avatar.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:06
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Dance has a lot of good parts - Frey pies - Victarion being an idiot - the horror shortstory when Whatshisname tries to steal the dragons - Stannis's death march to Winterfell Without the pointless Tyrion chapters it's a good book
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Jan 12, 2021 22:34
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chaosapiant posted:Said it before but I’m a big fan of Feast. There’s not as much action, but I don’t read the books for action to begin with. There’s some great character moments, especially with Jaime and Cersei. Yeah I hated AFFC the first time through, but my second time through it actually became a favorite.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:42
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I'm sure it's been linked in this thread before but The Meereenese Blot is a rewarding read for anyone who at least kind-of liked AFFC and ADWD. GRRM is trying harder in these later books than it first appears (at least to me).
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Jan 12, 2021 23:26
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Zippy the Bummer posted:That is a loving great avatar. Thanks. I stole it brazenly from a thread here a while back after changing the username I’d had for like 12 years. I’m also of the opinion that the reaction people have to dance is grrm’s intentional writing in of Dany’s alienation of being surrounded by and enveloped into this alien culture.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:00
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I never got into Victarion. I guess when I first read it I didn't get the vibe that he kind of parallels Cersei and her idiocy (I liked her chapters a lot) and was kind of bored by him. Maybe I should reread his chapters, given how much you guys like him.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:02
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mastajake posted:I never got into Victarion. I guess when I first read it I didn't get the vibe that he kind of parallels Cersei and her idiocy (I liked her chapters a lot) and was kind of bored by him. Maybe I should reread his chapters, given how much you guys like him. It’s just that they have the only cool part which is his lava arm
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Jan 13, 2021 14:46
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Kuiperdolin posted:Dance has a lot of good parts I think it's generally agreed that after Storm, GRRM's publishers and editors basically lost/rescinded all control over their cash cow in terms of structuring his material which is why Feast and Dance still have the bedrock of a good ASoIaF book but are seen by most to fail even when "it's supposed to be a boring travelogue/interstitial book" is taken into full account.
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Jan 13, 2021 16:19
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I really admire how Martin was able to write Cersei's point-of-view chapters. She's happily unaware of the potential consequences of her actions while the audience is reading between the lines and seeing with horror exactly how quickly her choices are loving over the realm. But otherwise...yeah, Feast and Dance are just people spinning their wheels and setting things up for some climaxes we aren't ever going to get. japes on us i guess
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Jan 13, 2021 16:55
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mind the walrus posted:I think it's generally agreed that after Storm, GRRM's publishers and editors basically lost/rescinded all control over their cash cow in terms of structuring his material which is why Feast and Dance still have the bedrock of a good ASoIaF book but are seen by most to fail even when "it's supposed to be a boring travelogue/interstitial book" is taken into full account. The power dynamics in writing are really messed up, and then they completely switch for some authors at some point, and it's like suddenly you got promoted twice, and now your former boss is your employee.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:26
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Yup, GRRM went from a respectable also-ran journeyman with an impressive grassroots passion project to a Superstar Writer With an HBO Show In the Works TM and it's very clear no one could tell him his artistic instincts needed direction. Suddenly he really did become the cliché "You can't rush genius!" rear end in a top hat who abuses his status to extend deadlines and gets needlessly experimental, and two decades later we've seen the fruit that it's borne-- probably good enough if you were close in his orbit, but definitely not "The American Tolkien" in any sense but the most backhanded, derisive ways.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:34
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mind the walrus posted:Yup, GRRM went from a respectable also-ran journeyman with an impressive grassroots passion project to a Superstar Writer With an HBO Show In the Works TM and it's very clear no one could tell him his artistic instincts needed direction. Suddenly he really did become the cliché "You can't rush genius!" rear end in a top hat who abuses his status to extend deadlines and gets needlessly experimental, and two decades later we've seen the fruit that it's borne-- probably good enough if you were close in his orbit, but definitely not "The American Tolkien" in any sense but the most backhanded, derisive ways. To be fair Tolkien spent like a decade writing the lord of the rings, and I think the whole trilogy is like one Gurm episode, but he did finish them, he didn't write two then gallivant off to start the Similarrion vols 1-3
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Jan 13, 2021 20:46
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I said it before but I really liked the Brienne countryside travelogue. I mean that was probably for me the highlight of Feast along with Cersei's self-destruct-o-rama. I still get chills from Septon Meribald's speech about broken men, even if GRRM hammered the point in pretty hard, I still liked it a lot. e: And we did not get the speech in the TV series. You even had Ian McShane and couldn't give him this speech. TeaJay fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 21:00
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mind the walrus posted:Yup, GRRM went from a respectable also-ran journeyman with an impressive grassroots passion project to a Superstar Writer With an HBO Show In the Works TM and it's very clear no one could tell him his artistic instincts needed direction. Suddenly he really did become the cliché "You can't rush genius!" rear end in a top hat who abuses his status to extend deadlines and gets needlessly experimental, and two decades later we've seen the fruit that it's borne-- probably good enough if you were close in his orbit, but definitely not "The American Tolkien" in any sense but the most backhanded, derisive ways. This would sort of be true if his deadlines didn’t start getting wildly out of whack and missed prior to the show ever being a thing. The writing was on the wall (but not the page lol) that every book would take longer and longer to come out even in 2005 with Feast.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:20
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TeaJay posted:I said it before but I really liked the Brienne countryside travelogue. I mean that was probably for me the highlight of Feast along with Cersei's self-destruct-o-rama. I still get chills from Septon Meribald's speech about broken men, even if GRRM hammered the point in pretty hard, I still liked it a lot. Arnie did it instead.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:22
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Hound going ham with the axe kind of made up for it tho.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:26
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chaosapiant posted:This would sort of be true if his deadlines didn’t start getting wildly out of whack and missed prior to the show ever being a thing. The writing was on the wall (but not the page lol) that every book would take longer and longer to come out even in 2005 with Feast. TeaJay posted:e: And we did not get the speech in the TV series. You even had Ian McShane and couldn't give him this speech.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:09
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TeaJay posted:I said it before but I really liked the Brienne countryside travelogue. I mean that was probably for me the highlight of Feast along with Cersei's self-destruct-o-rama. I still get chills from Septon Meribald's speech about broken men, even if GRRM hammered the point in pretty hard, I still liked it a lot. I like it but it's also clearly redundant with the Abbot's speech on Fair Isle. Both were fine, one had to go, both stayed. Which links to the point above about being editor-proof.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:54
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Kuiperdolin posted:I like it but it's also clearly redundant with the Abbot's speech on Fair Isle. Both were fine, one had to go, both stayed. Which links to the point above about being editor-proof. This. Keeping both, along with other stuff along Brienne's travel, made her whole arc a long "This war is baaad, m'kay? Don't do war. 'Cause it's bad."
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Jan 14, 2021 00:26
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pseudanonymous posted:To be fair Tolkien spent like a decade writing the lord of the rings, and I think the whole trilogy is like one Gurm episode, but he did finish them, he didn't write two then gallivant off to start the Similarrion vols 1-3 Hobbit was published in 1937 and the LOTR in 1954. Tolkien wrote his publisher telling them the Hobbit sequel was aaaalmost finished in 1941. He had a few smaller, unrelated works like Leaf by Niggle and Farmer Giles published in between. So from the perspective of someone waiting for a Hobbit sequel it wouldn't feel that different from what GRRM's doing, except that the Hobbit is a perfectly good self contained story instead of being a half finished series with no ending. Also Tolkien had the excuse of holding down a full time job as a professor, raising 4 kids and, you know, a world war breaking out in the middle.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:48
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Hobbit was published in 1937 and the LOTR in 1954. Tolkien wrote his publisher telling them the Hobbit sequel was aaaalmost finished in 1941. What an absolute motherfucker Tolkien was, wow.
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Jan 14, 2021 04:50
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Jan 14, 2021 05:20
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Hobbit was published in 1937 and the LOTR in 1954. Tolkien wrote his publisher telling them the Hobbit sequel was aaaalmost finished in 1941. He had a few smaller, unrelated works like Leaf by Niggle and Farmer Giles published in between. So from the perspective of someone waiting for a Hobbit sequel it wouldn't feel that different from what GRRM's doing, except that the Hobbit is a perfectly good self contained story instead of being a half finished series with no ending. Also Tolkien had the excuse of holding down a full time job as a professor, raising 4 kids and, you know, a world war breaking out in the middle. Also, Farmer Giles is hilarious.
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Jan 14, 2021 08:28
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1) Rudy, you stupid rear end in a top hat. 2) Tyrion lost his trial by combat. 3) Rudy.... You stupid rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 14, 2021 08:38
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Won the first one though.
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Jan 14, 2021 09:05
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mastajake posted:I never got into Victarion. I guess when I first read it I didn't get the vibe that he kind of parallels Cersei and her idiocy (I liked her chapters a lot) and was kind of bored by him. Maybe I should reread his chapters, given how much you guys like him. I only read Dance once, and that was right when it came out (actually, it was before it came out, I trudged through the cell-phone-camera images of the pages that some bookstore worker took and leaked - those were the days). The things I remember about Victarion were that he seemed like a brave but not-too-bright pirate and that he had a bromance with the tattooed red priest who I always visualized as Darth Maul.
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Jan 16, 2021 15:14
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Well whatever happens we got a great Crusader Kings mod out of it
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Jan 16, 2021 17:57
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Kylaer posted:I only read Dance once, and that was right when it came out (actually, it was before it came out, I trudged through the cell-phone-camera images of the pages that some bookstore worker took and leaked - those were the days). The things I remember about Victarion were that he seemed like a brave but not-too-bright pirate and that he had a bromance with the tattooed red priest who I always visualized as Darth Maul. The only thing I remember about him is his arm breaking open with evil magic stuff for... some reason. I don't think I remember anything about that book other than that, Onion Knight hanging out with some fat dude and his food, and Daeny making GBS threads water.
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Jan 19, 2021 11:23
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Dany making GBS threads herself in agony in an empty field is the most dignified way this series could have ended.
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Jan 19, 2021 13:13
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I feel like the show removing all the religious and magical stuff screwed it over in the end. Like Bran and Arya just get gutted plotwise because like all their stuff is religious and magical. Also reading AFFC and ADWD back to back is infinitely better since it's one book split into two. I also think your favorite POVs play into it. I think GRRM's refusal to either cut things,do a timeskip,or add another book is what's screwing him over. Also we should've been getting Dornish chapters in ASoS if he was going to go into detail about them. Like just needs to go gently caress it and go at AGoT pace again and just age everyone up/get everyone into place. If I recall Cersei and Jon and Stannis were the problematic ones in terms of a timeskip, so if Cersei and Stannis die he could do it still. SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 23:06
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SirKibbles posted:Also we should've been getting Dornish chapters in ASoS if he was going to go into detail about them. Reminds me of Shara from The Wheel of Time. For some reason, like with the Land of Madness and mainland Seanchan, we never got any chapters or stories dealing with them. And then Jordan died and his Ersatzauthor went just WELP HERE THEY ARE and then there were Sharans.  Maybe we will get tons of new Dornish chapters when GRRM finally buys it and Sanderson gets to write the end of ASoIaF?
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Jan 19, 2021 23:30
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Libluini posted:Reminds me of Shara from The Wheel of Time. For some reason, like with the Land of Madness and mainland Seanchan, we never got any chapters or stories dealing with them. And then Jordan died and his Ersatzauthor went just WELP HERE THEY ARE and then there were Sharans. Arianne's fine and Aero Hotah has deposable written all over him. It's why a done buy the Arianne and the Sand Snakes all die in an explosion thing. I feel like that's just people not liking the chapters and wanting them to be done with rather than any logical conclusion. The show did it because they didn't give a drat and wanted to do Star Wars and it screwed them over. If I had to pick the dead Martells it be Doran and Aero (pretty much guaranteed) maybes: Nymeria Sand (Wanting to kill children gets you turbo murdered) Tyene Sand (For maximum Arianne angst ) and pick 1 out of Ned Dayne,Obara,or Sarella for dies during the long night. I think Elia Sand is super safe based on the fact that Arya has like negative amounts of female friends and with Elia just being basically Dornish Arya.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:12
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Libluini posted:Reminds me of Shara from The Wheel of Time. Sorry to cross the streams here but I’m halfway through the first book and all I’m feeling is that it’s a Tolkien ripoff. Does it get better or should I eject now?
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Jan 20, 2021 01:10
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SirKibbles posted:I think GRRM's refusal to either cut things,do a timeskip,or add another book is what's screwing him over. Also we should've been getting Dornish chapters in ASoS if he was going to go into detail about them. Like just needs to go gently caress it and go at AGoT pace again and just age everyone up/get everyone into place. But nope I'm the American Tolkien got to make sure there are no inconsistencies in and everything feels "real" like all my critics and fans say but no I am not going to change my process for structuring my writing one bit to fulfill this exceptionally lofty goal.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:14
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Proust Malone posted:Sorry to cross the streams here but I’m halfway through the first book and all I’m feeling is that it’s a Tolkien ripoff. Does it get better or should I eject now? You should come join us in the Wheel of Time Thread! We're good about spoilers when we know new readers are there. For Eye of the World though, yea the first 3/4ths of it really screams Lord of the Rings, but after that it goes in entirely its own direction. I'd say if you're enjoying everything but the LotR-isms then keep at it. If you don't like it by the end of book two or three though, feel free to jump ship.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:29
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Proust Malone posted:Sorry to cross the streams here but I’m halfway through the first book and all I’m feeling is that it’s a Tolkien ripoff. Does it get better or should I eject now? I tend to believe the theory he deliberately mirrored the lord of the rings for a big chunk of the first book. I think books1-5 are good but then it falls off.
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Jan 20, 2021 04:14
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Proust Malone posted:Sorry to cross the streams here but I’m halfway through the first book and all I’m feeling is that it’s a Tolkien ripoff. Does it get better or should I eject now? The Tolkein elements drop away really quickly about 3/4ths of the way into the first book, and the series really comes into it's own starting in book 2, Whether you'll like it after that I dunno -- even the best elements of the books end up being stretched loving thin over 14.5 volumes -- but WoT really became its own particular flavor of fantasy that's never successfully been copied, (although a lot of authors dropped giant bricks shaped like books trying). Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 13:58
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Libluini posted:Reminds me of Shara from The Wheel of Time. For some reason, like with the Land of Madness and mainland Seanchan, we never got any chapters or stories dealing with them. And then Jordan died and his Ersatzauthor went just WELP HERE THEY ARE and then there were Sharans. IDK, I kind of enjoyed that aspect of it. The books tell you next to nothing about Shara and then BOOM they're here to gently caress poo poo up and uh oh maybe shouldn't have assumed certain threats were just twiddling thumbs in the background the whole time. It's not something that Jordan would've done but if that's Sanderson's editorial contribution to the series I'm fine with it. Proust Malone posted:Sorry to cross the streams here but I’m halfway through the first book and all I’m feeling is that it’s a Tolkien ripoff. Does it get better or should I eject now? It gets way better. Books 2 & 3 depart from the Tolkien ripoff feeling and establish the story in it's own right, 4-6 are awesome, 7-10 are kind of muddled but have some high points, 11 is the reset and then 12-14 are just high ball octane bringing everything together. Overall they're better than average and have been a huge influence on modern fantasy but I'm biased obviously. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 15:51
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