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I do feel the Wolves have softened a bit since the Heresy. The perspective of them going from ruthless butchers to defenders of humanity by virtue of everything else getting that much worse has merit but I do think that, under Grimnar at least, the Space Wolves have had a change of heart. They're never going to be the outright altruists that the Salamanders manifest, but the Wolves know what is right and what is wrong and they do what they have to. I watched a really good video the other day discussing themes present in Norse mythology and paganism, particularly focusing on the meaning of courage and heroism. The idea is that mankind is ephemeral and that being in the side of right is not the side that wins, because its not about winning. The night will fall eventually, but heroism comes from those who, either by choice or by circumstance, stand their ground and fight for good when their backs are to the wall. I think that really embodies the Space Wolves. They're not nihilistic crusaders like the Black Templars who fight and kill because that is what they were made for. The Wolves fight because it is the right thing to do. It's not a matter of victory, it's a matter of moral certainty and doing your best in the face of inevitable defeat, and that is where mankind finds honour. And you don't let others down or dismiss them because they're not superhuman killers. The moral certainty to do the right thing and stand up to the enemies of mankind isn't exclusive to the Space Wolves, so they get along better than most with regular humans. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 09:38
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I forget the exact words but Lorgar poo poo talks Magnus and the Thousand Sons with their scientific and rigid approach to the warp and says this also- D-Pad posted:The warp is emotion made manifest so intent matters. it's no wonder they all get turbo hosed like with the Rubric curse.
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Jan 24, 2021 10:12
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The Thousand Sons were literally summoning daemons to serve as familiars from day one.
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Jan 24, 2021 15:36
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wiegieman posted:The Thousand Sons were literally summoning daemons to serve as familiars from day one. They were unaware as Bug Daddy Dumb Dumb never told them about Chaos.
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Jan 24, 2021 15:57
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I think the thousand sons are interesting because they demonstrate what happens when you try to take a purely scientific approach to the Warp. You can consider it just an exotic part of the galaxy and the warp entities there just a unique form of life that adapted like extremophile bacteria to their home. You can measure warp energy like any other fundamental force and study it. You can harness it through practice and diligent research, performing “sorcery” by rigidly following directions in a book. All that stuff works. And if you do it that way you end up completely hosed and ruined because that’s not what the warp is, it absolutely has a spiritual dimension, the chaos Gods are not just large energy anomalies but Gods.
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Jan 24, 2021 16:13
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notaspy posted:They were unaware as Bug Daddy Dumb Dumb never told them about Chaos. Except for that if intent matters than being ignorant or just willfully ignoring chaos is actually a fairly good strategy. Like if you can just go "Well actually im drawing on a world spirit and I don't believe that Chaos gods exist/have any influence on this process" and have it work/be safer than the Emperor was kinda right. This issue is when you start probing poo poo and it doesnt add up so you dig deeper. Or you know, you listen to the weird warp predator things you keep summoning to dust your books. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 18:32
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Do the Thousand Sons ever increase in number? any new rubric marines being created?
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Jan 24, 2021 18:39
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Telsa Cola posted:Except for that if intent matters than being ignorant or just willfully ignoring chaos is actually a fairly good strategy. I mean, I like Magnus and think he's the only really tragic traitor primarch but he was also like a tiny idiot babby when it came to the warp. "Oh you want to give me a key to this gate my father erected? Thank you kind warp presence who is surely benevolent!" is a hell of a way to go through life. Also speaking of Marines and brutality for the sake of it, I just finished Dante and Devastation Of Baal and at the end it seems like Robute is saying it's long past time for chapters to stop letting their home worlds be feudal/deathworld hellholes under the guise of "recruiting the strong" which would be a very interesting change.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:03
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Benagain posted:Do the Thousand Sons ever increase in number? any new rubric marines being created? If you're a strong enough sorcerer you can just collect the dust and put it back in the armor.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:12
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Guyver posted:They can make new ones from captured marines (I think) and they can tear the souls of the old destroyed ones from the warp and shove it back in new armor. Arhiman going around with a shop vac, hoovering up marine dust bunnies before upending the vac into an empty suit of armor.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:36
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Guyver posted:They can make new ones from captured marines (I think) and they can tear the souls of the old destroyed ones from the warp and shove it back in new armor.  Heck, maybe it never happened at all or was fanfiction. I have literally no memory of where I saw it.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:41
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My take is that Space Wolves and psychic powers is that they're hypocrites who think their magic is better than your magic, but also are extremely good at sniffing out corruption in their rune priests and dealing with it before it becomes an issue
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Jan 24, 2021 20:07
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So, someone on B&C posted the Dramatis Personae for Mortis, and uh...nobody from the Legio Mortis appears to be on it. Having no idea whatsoever about the plot, this does not give me much hope that it advances the story.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:26
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:My take is that Space Wolves and psychic powers is that they're hypocrites who think their magic is better than your magic, but also are extremely good at sniffing out corruption in their rune priests and dealing with it before it becomes an issue i believe space wolves are like dogs and just sort of do things arbitrarily
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Jan 24, 2021 20:52
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von Metternich posted:So, someone on B&C posted the Dramatis Personae for Mortis, and uh...nobody from the Legio Mortis appears to be on it. Having no idea whatsoever about the plot, this does not give me much hope that it advances the story. Presumably Mortis will be portrayed as the big evil enemy and the main Titan perspectives will be from the loyalists. Or perhaps the Mortis titans are just now full of goo rather than crew and as such won't have a perspective? I don't think that's reason to write off the book. French is one of the better authors anyway. Also unless they've given Gav Thorpe any more novels (lol) the last 3 Siege of Terra novels after Mortis will be by Wraight, ADB and then I would assume Abnett for the final novel. Wild speculation but hopefully that'll make for a strong finish now they've gotten the novels by worse authors out of the way.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:11
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Telsa Cola posted:Except for that if intent matters than being ignorant or just willfully ignoring chaos is actually a fairly good strategy. Until you get depression or go to a rave or something and then boom, demons everywhere.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:15
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Man the preorder of Abnett's final SoT book is going to melt the data center that GW uses. I can't wait to see how he writes that ending, assuming he does.
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Jan 24, 2021 22:49
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Telsa Cola posted:So, does he reunite with his shard? No.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:03
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NUMBER 1 FULCI FAN posted:Man the preorder of Abnett's final SoT book is going to melt the data center that GW uses. I can't wait to see how he writes that ending, assuming he does. I have faith in him to pull it off, even if he's notorious for rushed endings and has now been given the ending of endings to any BL fiction. Fury of Magnus spoilers: I really didn't connect to the lofty stuff in this novella. The military business and the interplay between the various Astartes characters previously established has been the strongest stuff in the better SoT novels. Here the Astartes characters weren't strong enough to carry the events that happened. But then that's probably an issue with the story here anyway. Here the fight between Vulkan and Magnus just felt a bit...DBZ. Does that seem reductive? It doesn't help that he's wrapping up the arcs of some of Kyme's Salamander characters, who I forgot existed each time they appeared in a new novel of story. The perpetual stuff just felt like shuffling a character that was 'spare' out of the story. Rezzing Malcador didn't really feel like it had a point other than to make Magnus feel a bit guilty. All in all if this is the last bit of input McNeill has on the Heresy it can only be a good thing. His heart just doesn't seem to be in it anymore.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:08
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We’re all assuming that Abnett will write the final SoT book because he’s far and away the most competent writer they employ, but it’s possible that it’ll be someone else because black library doesn’t always seem to recognize the varying quality of their stable of authors and gives out assignments to people regardless of their level of skill. witness them assigning galaxy in flames, an incredibly pivotal book featuring one of the most important events of the heresy to ben “soul drinkers” counter.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:17
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Abnett has gotten better at endings. Anarch had a wonderful ending.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:19
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:We’re all assuming that Abnett will write the final SoT book because he’s far and away the most competent writer they employ, That's debatable. I think Chris Wraight is easily the best they got at the moment.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:21
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I think all 3 could pull it off, but it's got to be Abnett right? He launched the thing, and he is The Black Library Guy. Also pretty sure ADB is deep into his own Siege book as his socials have been pretty quiet and secretive about what he's currently writing so unless he's doing two books I don't think he'll be doing the last one.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:29
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Telsa Cola posted:Except for that if intent matters than being ignorant or just willfully ignoring chaos is actually a fairly good strategy. This is, at least 2 books in but not expecting it to change, Fabius Bile's strategy with daemons. They are non sentient, emotion inspired energy manifestations who imitate real consciousness. It really pisses them off and he's important and successful enough that I think the chaos gods are quietly cheering him on because they are dicks to all their followers.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:35
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Biplane posted:That's debatable. I think Chris Wraight is easily the best they got at the moment. I rate ADB over both of them however he's a pretty slow writer as well. Edit: How long is Fury of Magnus? 13€ for an ebook novella seems a bit too pricey. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 23:44
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MrNemo posted:This is, at least 2 books in but not expecting it to change, Fabius Bile's strategy with daemons. They are non sentient, emotion inspired energy manifestations who imitate real consciousness. It really pisses them off and he's important and successful enough that I think the chaos gods are quietly cheering him on because they are dicks to all their followers. Time to quote that scene again: quote:‘Its jurisdiction extends far beyond your ability to conceive, alchemist. You have committed crimes of such monstrous elegance that even the gods themselves grow uneasy. Look – see – they sit in judgement of you.’ A too-long finger drifted upwards, and Fabius followed the gesture. He looked up, and something looked down.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:56
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Chaos has always interested me because if Slaanesh can be born, does that mean Chaos Gods can die? Surely anything that is created can be unmade? At the same time, if it's all just willpower/mind over matter, then surly the Eldar could just wish that Slaanesh has no claim to their souls? But that doesn't seem to work which means there is some element of the Warp and Warp entities that is objective and beyond even the most powerful psykers in existence.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Chaos has always interested me because if Slaanesh can be born, does that mean Chaos Gods can die? Surely anything that is created can be unmade? Except Eldar are way way way too deep into the whole "God-like Warp entities exist and have power over us" for that to be feasible, being arguably created to think just that with their own pantheon. Also it's kinda hard to constantly wish/mentally exert effort when you are dead, which is when Slaanesh does the soul slurping. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 01:03
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The whole Space Wolf take on psykers has always felt really forced to me. Even the Thousand Sons believed their Tutelaries were just benign, helpful warp-manifestations or expression of psychic theorems, so just cloaking warpcraft in some fantasy or folklore should not help. If some planet started worhipping Khorne but painted the offered skulls golden and called him the Militant-Emperor, it would be alright? Belief conquers all, right? Thematically, I know that runecasters and such are part of the myth, and in-game magic has to be a thing available to most factions even if some of them have well-established lore saying that well, they shouldn't. But when you make that a big part on why a Legion splits, they should have been more careful. As it is, it reminds me of the story of the sultan that fell in love with a french sparkling wine, but when confronted that alcohol was not allowed in his faith, just decreed that this particular wine was 'french mineral water'.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:05
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Arquinsiel posted:I have an extremely vague memory of a sorceror in some story, possibly Ahriman himself, doing some warp magic on a bunch of M41 Imperial marines and pretty much instantly turning them into Rubric marines. Whether this was some form of soul-binding shenanigans or just burning out the armour and shoving the soul of a brother from the warp in Yeah it was Ahriman and he was trying to cure the "flesh-change" which was chaotic mutations. Anyone who wasnt a psycher got zapped. If you look at it as mutations being gifts from Chaos, trying to send them back to the Chaos gods is a poor decision that got the response of "Oh, you dont like it? Then how about no flesh at all!"
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Jan 25, 2021 02:21
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MariusLecter posted:Yeah it was Ahriman and he was trying to cure the "flesh-change" which was chaotic mutations. Anyone who wasnt a psycher got zapped. If you look at it as mutations being gifts from Chaos, trying to send them back to the Chaos gods is a poor decision that got the response of "Oh, you dont like it? Then how about no flesh at all!" Also it cost Ahriman his face. Not like "ruined his looks", nope- dude has a full-on gaping hole where his face should be.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:34
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Magnus, you little poo poo.Immanentized posted:Also it cost Ahriman his face. I think one of the authors (maybe ADB, not sure) sorta-debunked that theory. There's a discussion somewhere with the author about whether or not that comment was meant to be taken literally, and the answer was "maybe".
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Jan 25, 2021 02:37
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Sephyr posted:If some planet started worhipping Khorne but painted the offered skulls golden and called him the Militant-Emperor, it would be alright? Belief conquers all, right? They'd probably be friends with the Blood Angels, yeah.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:40
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My son was asking me if there were any good 40k graphic novels. Suggestions?
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Jan 25, 2021 03:58
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Sephyr posted:If some planet started worhipping Khorne but painted the offered skulls golden and called him the Militant-Emperor, it would be alright? Belief conquers all, right? *Gestures widely at like, a third of Imperial forces *
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Jan 25, 2021 04:06
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Pershing posted:My son was asking me if there were any good 40k graphic novels. Suggestions? Damnation Crusade.
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Jan 25, 2021 04:09
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Deff Skwadron
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Jan 25, 2021 04:25
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MariusLecter posted:Yeah it was Ahriman and he was trying to cure the "flesh-change" which was chaotic mutations. Anyone who wasnt a psycher got zapped. If you look at it as mutations being gifts from Chaos, trying to send them back to the Chaos gods is a poor decision that got the response of "Oh, you dont like it? Then how about no flesh at all!"
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Jan 25, 2021 07:15
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Arquinsiel posted:I don't mean the original Rubric, I mean just like, on a Tuesday in 988 M.41 Ahriman is doing some minor housekeeping when a squad of Black Templars kicks down his front door, and he just sort of shrugs and BAM, they're Rubric Marines now. It's entirely possible this was fan fiction According to the Codex, no. There have been no new rubric marines since the rubric was cast. However, they are functionally immortal and indestructible. You can smash one to pieces and scatter the dust to the four winds but a powerful enough psycher can pull them back together and have them as his thralls.
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Jan 25, 2021 10:38
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Pershing posted:My son was asking me if there were any good 40k graphic novels. Suggestions?
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Jan 25, 2021 10:49
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