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What Chris Wraight books would folks recommend for someone who largely hasn't followed HH or the Siege? I got the audio book of Bloodlines, and about a third of the way through just stopped listening. It wasn't bad, but I just didn't get into it. I want to give it another shot, but think I should listen to something else before starting over.
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Feb 8, 2021 04:32
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thocan posted:What Chris Wraight books would folks recommend for someone who largely hasn't followed HH or the Siege? He's just pretty good in general. Scars (HH) is often described as doing a lot to flesh out the White Scars, while Lords of Silence (40K) also puts a spin on the Death Guard that does much the same. Valdor, Birth of the Imperium provides an imho pretty cool window into that period between Unity and the start of the Great Crusade. The two books in his Vaults of Terra series is lots of Inquisition goodness, while his Warhammer Crime entry Bloodlines provides a look at a side of the Imperium where nobles and criminal syndicates are the scariest kids on the block. Really, all of his stuff is good quality, even his earlier entries like Wrath of Iron which highlights just how brutal the 40k Iron Hands can be.
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Feb 8, 2021 04:49
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His little space wolf books were fantastic as self contained stories and does alot of characterization for the space wolves
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Feb 8, 2021 18:12
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thocan posted:What Chris Wraight books would folks recommend for someone who largely hasn't followed HH or the Siege? Carrion Throne and Hollow Mountain for starters.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:53
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I'm on Saturnine now. It's been a lot of fun reading the HH series turn into the SoT, and I've noticed that there were kind of three stages to it. 1) The opening books, when the series was meant to be a retelling of major events of the Heresy. These are a lot of fun. They add a lot to the lore, they gloss it, they expand our understanding. It's clear that the purpose of the series was to act as a modern equivalent of a Greek tragedy, where everyone knows the story but you still watch to see how it happens. The great heart, the noble flaw. 2) The middle books, where they realized what a cash cow they had on their hands. These are by and large skippable and boring. They mostly exist to flesh out the authors' pet characters and storylines. Some of these books are actually pretty well written (Unremembered Empire stands out), but more are bad. They're padding. 3) The later books, when they stopped meandering and decided to take what they were doing seriously. These books are more... I don't want to say literary, that's the wrong word, but they're more thoughtful than most of the earlier ones. They're trying to ask and answer philosophical and ethical questions about the series and setting itself. They're trying to take some lesson from the Heresy and have it mean something beyond just being the formative mythology of the universe. The central question, of course, seems to be "was the Emperor right or wrong?" Clearly everything has gone wrong, and over and over again the Emperor's arrogance and hubris are hammered home as the reason why, but I think the question defies an easy answer. "Was the Emperor a good person or a bad person" is too simplistic a question to ask, and "was the Emperor wrong to do as He did" is likewise unanswerable. He made mistakes, tragic ones, and some characters clearly think that He was wrong from the start, wrong to even try to do what He did... but I don't think you can take their positions as gospel. There's plenty of Monday-morning quarterbacking to do. I'm especially considering John Grammaticus and Erda's conversation mid-Saturnine. These two seem totally certain that the Emperor was wrong to even attempt the Great Crusade, and given how it turned out it's hard to blame them. But I don't think that you can say that's a canonical truth, or that the 41st millennium would be any better had the Emperor just contented himself with ruling Terra and letting the Age of Strife gradually fade. I do like that the books seem to be asking these questions and providing a variety of perspectives and possible answers. That's a level of maturity I would not have expected from BL when I first read Storm of Iron or Warriors of Ultramar or whatever else they were publishing 15+ years ago.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:11
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I figure without the Great Crusade in M32 the Beast shows up and kills or enslaves everyone except Terra. The end would be the Emperor vs the Beast on the largest manpile the galaxy has ever seen.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:31
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Was the Emperor right or wrong? If the Great Crusade succeeded as planned, the grim Grimdarkness of the 41st Millennium would not exist and therefore we wouldn't be buying overpriced plastic toys and books, so yes, he was absolutely right.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:27
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I picked up a copy of Helwinter Gate that I got for basically MSRP (nice) and realized I don't know much at all about the Space Wolves. Where should I start with them? I'm sure Ragnar is good since it's ADB, should I check out the Chris Wraight stuff after that?
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Feb 8, 2021 22:46
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NUMBER 1 FULCI FAN posted:I picked up a copy of Helwinter Gate that I got for basically MSRP (nice) and realized I don't know much at all about the Space Wolves. Where should I start with them? I'm sure Ragnar is good since it's ADB, should I check out the Chris Wraight stuff after that? Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller are the first two in the trilogy that Helwinter is the end of so definitely read those two first!
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Feb 8, 2021 22:51
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D-Pad posted:Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller are the first two in the trilogy that Helwinter is the end of so definitely read those two first! Whoa thanks for the heads up! I thought it was self contained!
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Feb 8, 2021 22:56
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I bought Deacon of Wounds, the new horror joint by David Annandale. I was excited for this because I loved House of Night and Chain, but this one was a marked step down. It was extremely predictable-the premise is “a priest tries to comfort the people during a terrible drought.” And the priest does exactly everything you would think he does. Overall, I have not liked the warhammer horror line, with a couple of exceptions.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:30
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von Metternich posted:I bought Deacon of Wounds, the new horror joint by David Annandale. I was excited for this because I loved House of Night and Chain, but this one was a marked step down. It was extremely predictable-the premise is “a priest tries to comfort the people during a terrible drought.” And the priest does exactly everything you would think he does. Overall, I have not liked the warhammer horror line, with a couple of exceptions. Ah thats a shame, I'd quite enjoyed Annandale's stuff in the two horror anthologies I've read. Haven't read House of Chains yet so good to know that's decent too at least - what else in the horror imprint have you read? Is there anything else there that's worth checking out or is it mostly dross?
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Feb 9, 2021 00:07
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Angry Lobster posted:Was the Emperor right or wrong? If the Great Crusade succeeded as planned, the grim Grimdarkness of the 41st Millennium would not exist and therefore we wouldn't be buying overpriced plastic toys and books, so yes, he was absolutely right. nah we still would "I attempt to build a garden for the children!" "Roll Masonry skill!" "Ok, on my turn I'm going to advance my Starweavers and attempt to weave a commemorative throw rug to mark your new garden. I get a plus one because I took Synthetic Omniyarn."
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Feb 9, 2021 00:56
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von Metternich posted:I bought Deacon of Wounds, the new horror joint by David Annandale. I was excited for this because I loved House of Night and Chain, but this one was a marked step down. It was extremely predictable-the premise is “a priest tries to comfort the people during a terrible drought.” And the priest does exactly everything you would think he does. Overall, I have not liked the warhammer horror line, with a couple of exceptions. I finished it up last night and had the same response. House of Night and Chain pulled off this weird disjointed take where the protagonist couldn't be sure of his own reality, but Deacon of Wounds was just...you have this sympathetic protagonist and as soon as major stuff goes down he just turns into your typical moustache-twirling Redemptionist "purge it with fire" type. Even the threat was just telegraphed as poo poo. I think the scenes with the introduction to the ritual and the sacrifice of the family could have stayed in, but if it had been a more insidious infiltration of the plague and the protagonist trying to remain moral throughout, it could have been a lot more wrenching. Maybe skip the insect/worm stuff and focus on the dehydration and starvation as aspects of Nurgle's decay, but more subtle up until the introduction of the "rebirth" rain. But nope, straight on to the Redemptionist take. I think I've enjoyed the Horror line overall myself, but Deacon of Wounds was definitely a weak entry.
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Feb 9, 2021 05:12
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Finished up Ravenor Rogue and holy hell what a way to end the trilogy!
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Feb 9, 2021 06:17
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Owlkill posted:Ah thats a shame, I'd quite enjoyed Annandale's stuff in the two horror anthologies I've read. The Colonel’s Monograph has some good moments, and so does the Oubliette even if the premise is a bit ridiculous. Castle of Blood does a good job with the “trapped in a building with a killer” trope. I guess I’ve just found that the best horror is in regular 40k fiction and was disappointed that WHH isn’t that turned up to 11. A lot of Peter Fehervari’s work, parts of the First Heretic and the Night Lords trilogy, even bits of the Priests of Mars series. I haven’t read the short story anthologies, maybe I’ll check those out next.
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Feb 9, 2021 12:15
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Another awesome fan project: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ELDzK4 Astartes really inspired a lot of talent. I hope GW is paying attention.
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Feb 10, 2021 15:41
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D-Pad posted:Another awesome fan project: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ELDzK4 Some top notch stuff, even if the animation is a bit stiff
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Feb 10, 2021 20:38
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That looks great. Also kind of shocked someone is using Blender for something that isn't video game porn.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:05
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Saturnine is really good given that it’s sort of a “then more battles happened” type of book. The fall of Lion’s Gate, as depicted in The First Wall, is a major event that was part of the lore even before the HH books were written. The Saturnine assault, and the attacks on Colossi Gate and Gorgon Bar, were invented for this series, but they’re really well depicted. Also I love it when they give him cover to really paint the walls in established characters’ blood, because he’s great at writing fitting ends to people.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:30
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Abaddon's internal narration from the moment his group breaks into Saturnine to the moment he gets yeeted out is great. Also the Imperial Fists dude's last stand.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:15
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I really liked Dan Abnett’s observation that the most “heroic” action of Saturnine was the one where the loyalists lost badly, and their biggest victory wasn’t as much a battle as it was a gruesomely one-sided slaughter
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Feb 11, 2021 03:01
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It's weird to me that they keep giving the bridging books to Abnett instead of the start/ends (okay maybe not the ends).
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Feb 11, 2021 10:46
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Gate of Bones was not as good as the first book IMO. All the characters except two or three felt very underdeveloped, and RG got almost no screen time. Literally, whatever he’s doing is probably the most interesting thing going on at any given time. I liked the guard commander though. There’s also a point where someone says “there’s thousands of chaos cultists and all we have is hundreds of Mordians, thirty or forty sisters of battle, fifteen space marines, and a couple of Custodians in this fortified position”...,this should not have been a harrowing situation, that’s all I’m saying.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:47
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von Metternich posted:Gate of Bones was not as good as the first book IMO. All the characters except two or three felt very underdeveloped, and RG got almost no screen time. Literally, whatever he’s doing is probably the most interesting thing going on at any given time. I liked the guard commander though. Finished it last night and came here to say this. I didn't like it nearly as much as the first book. The writing itself was a lot better than what Andy Clark usually puts out, but the story was kind of boring and characters were too. I also wished it was more Guilliman or those around him focused like the first book. It is definitely setting something up for further in the series with the weapon but it could have been done with a short story instead of a big book. On the last point the numbers for both sizes were actually quite a bit bigger but the author didn't do a very good job of getting that across. Another 40k author doesn't do large numbers very well situation. I'm not too far into Mortis but so far so good.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:54
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I forget who it was but there was like, one time one author got the number scale correctly when they mentioned that the Ork roks that impacted the planet were disgorging billions of orks that everyone was going to have to deal with.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:11
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Telsa Cola posted:I forget who it was but there was like, one time one author got the number scale correctly when they mentioned that the Ork roks that impacted the planet were disgorging billions of orks that everyone was going to have to deal with. Helsreach really gets the scale of Orks across, I'd say. It's just infinity green to the horizons.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:17
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Also, generally depending on how your cities and such are set up you actually don't need all that many people to hold a planet. If you have like 2 star ports and then like a bazillion small or unimportant towns/cities just take the ports and call it good.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:36
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“A Shell hit the building facade, bringing down a rush of dust that choked them. Through it, all Dvorgin could see were the bright flashes of weapon shots sparkling all over the front of the cathedrum, and the front ranks of the ragged horde advancing upon them. His own command included a few hundred Mordians, a few dozen Sisters of Battle and Lucerne’s surviving Space Marines. It would not be enough. The traitors numbered in the thousands. On the other side were civilians clutching lengths of pipe and street signs, or clubs of stone and wood. Only a few had guns. There were catacomb dwellers and artisans, priests, adepts, menials and lordlings, men and women both. The traitor planetary regiments they had fought these last months had lost all discipline, and were freely intermingled with the whole.” Then they start with VOLLEY FIRE. Lasguns have an automatic mode! Just loving unload on them!
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Feb 11, 2021 20:39
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it's like how Gav Thorpe really doesn't understand distance in space. in Indomitus there's a moment when a space marine tells his serfs to stop scanning behind their ship cause they know there's nothing within 50 000 kilometers. I do haveva soft spot for Gav as opposed to most of you though, due to the Last Chancers. as an aside, the space marine vs tau fight in one of those books really hammers home how insane their capabilities are.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:57
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von Metternich posted:“A Shell hit the building facade, bringing down a rush of dust that choked them. Through it, all Dvorgin could see were the bright flashes of weapon shots sparkling all over the front of the cathedrum, and the front ranks of the ragged horde advancing upon them. His own command included a few hundred Mordians, a few dozen Sisters of Battle and Lucerne’s surviving Space Marines. It would not be enough. The traitors numbered in the thousands.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:50
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Volley Fire in 40K is Mordians doing a three row deep line formation and putting their lasguns on full auto. Automatic fire allows you to use looser formations to spread the gunfire over a wider area but Mordians concentrate their fire. It's usual 40K silliness but five hundred tightly packed troopers with lasguns would be like a beam of sunlight hammering a single mass of enemy soldiers.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:55
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Is a lho-stick like a joint, or just a regular cigarette?
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Feb 11, 2021 22:45
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Biplane posted:Is a lho-stick like a joint, or just a regular cigarette? It's a cigarette, though lho seems to have a heavier hit than proper tobacco. Obscura is the in-universe marijuana analogue
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Feb 11, 2021 23:10
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Immanentized posted:Obscura is the in-universe marijuana analogue So, space Colorado? 
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Feb 11, 2021 23:18
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Obscura is heroin. Its smoked or injected.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:22
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Immanentized posted:It's a cigarette, though lho seems to have a heavier hit than proper tobacco. Obscura is the in-universe marijuana analogue That makes sense, I've seen lho referred to as illicit so I guess it's too strong to blaze up on watch or whatever.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:23
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Telsa Cola posted:Obscura is heroin. Its smoked or injected. Yeah, the way Obscura is described, it's definitely not "marijuana".
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Feb 11, 2021 23:25
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Telsa Cola posted:Obscura is heroin. Its smoked or injected. It really depends on the authors though? Abnett seems to have it as a mild intoxicant that's casually done while making deals at rogue trader meetings, while Graham Mcneill's stuff has it more towards the heroin/hashish side? I take it as a generic name, kind of like Amasec is taken to cover any type of amber-colored grain alcohol.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:36
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Immanentized posted:It really depends on the authors though? Abnett seems to have it as a mild intoxicant that's casually done while making deals at rogue trader meetings, while Graham Mcneill's stuff has it more towards the heroin/hashish side? I take it as a generic name, kind of like Amasec is taken to cover any type of amber-colored grain alcohol. I mean rogue traders are the exact people I would expect to do heroin or crazy space drugs during a business meet, but it's also entirely possible it gets cut with different poo poo. The other suggestion I have seen for it is opium.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:38
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