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WhiteHowler posted:Is Refined Oil more efficient for thermal plants than Energetic Graphite? You're going to need all that oil for plastic/acid/crystals. Its hydrogen you'll be swimming in soon.
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Feb 13, 2021 19:33
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Is it pretty much a given that the magnet ore used for those pink fuel cell looking things can only be found in a black hole? It's the only place it's appeared in my universe so far. Also at a bit of a fatigue point i think. I've found 3 of the rare ores and I'm shipping them home consistently. I've also patched a few gaps in my production, mainly around those green motors which seem to be plugging things up a little bit. What should be my next goal. I figure its: importing the last of the rare ores Finding a sulphur lake and import that Switch production to use the rare ores Research everything green and unlock remaining tech tree Pick a solar system and launch Dyson sphere stuff into orbit? I've got solar sails unlocked and I launched a few into space. Are those the first part of the sphere production or something different?
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Feb 13, 2021 19:34
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Kin posted:Is it pretty much a given that the magnet ore used for those pink fuel cell looking things can only be found in a black hole? The magnetic monopoles/unipolar magnets can be found at Neutron stars as well. There's gonna be only 2, maybe 3 sources of them in your entire sector though. And yes, once you get the framework up the solar sails will start to attach themselves to the framework to build the shell. They're also a required component to build the framework making rockets. If they have no framework to glue themselves to they'll eventually just fall out of orbit, but they're so cheap it's not a big deal.
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Feb 13, 2021 19:45
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WhiteHowler posted:Is Refined Oil more efficient for thermal plants than Energetic Graphite? Refining turns 8 MJ (*0.8 = 6.4 MJ) of crude into 16.8 MJ (*0.8 = 13.44 MJ) of refined oil/hydrogen at a cost of 3.8 MJ to power the refinery. Cracking turns 4.4 MJ (*0.8 = 3.52 MJ) of refined oil into 14.3 MJ (*0.8 = 11.44 MJ) of carbon/hydrogen for the same 3.8 MJ cost. So unlike coal-> carbon (where the energy increase is small and mostly eaten by the smelter), refining oil does give a decent return on the energy invested. (especially given that oil is infinite while coal isn't) However, given how trivial power is and how non-trivial it is to set up large refinement operations, I still think it's better to consider the thermal generator as a garbage disposal that produces power as a side effect.
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Feb 13, 2021 19:57
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I used crude for early power generation until I started to get access to silicon. I still have several plants up and running since crude oil is infinite and untapped crude geysers are wasted potential otherwise.
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Feb 13, 2021 20:14
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Alkydere posted:Also the logistics buildings and deuterium fractionators have direct inputs/outputs. Just enough things to really confuse everyone at least once. What would be really fun is if they changed it so every building supported both direct in/outputs and sorter in/outputs placeable on the direct connections. Want high speed power free connections? Splitters and belts for days. Want to just run belts alongside? Got you covered, too.
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Feb 13, 2021 20:29
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Alkydere posted:The magnetic monopoles/unipolar magnets can be found at Neutron stars as well. There's gonna be only 2, maybe 3 sources of them in your entire sector though. I'm trying to get my head around the scale of the dyson sphere and the number of components needed to build it. Are we talking 100's of thousands of solar sails and the like for each item or is it more like 5000 or something?
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Feb 13, 2021 20:30
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Kin posted:I'm trying to get my head around the scale of the dyson sphere and the number of components needed to build it. Are we talking 100's of thousands of solar sails and the like for each item or is it more like 5000 or something? We're talking the "106 and up" range. A standard G-type main sequence star is gonna need anywhere from a few hundred thousand to a few million sails depending on the radius of the sphere. A max sized sphere around a blue giant is gonna take closer to hundred millions. Either way you're getting into scientific notation scales.
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Feb 13, 2021 20:37
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Can someone help me troubleshoot gas giant exploitation? I've ringed my starting gas giant with extractors to make hydrogen and deuterium, and the towers are full of hydrogen & some deuterium. But the interstellar logistics towers on my orbiting world are on remote demand for deuterium, are empty, but aren't sending vessels to pick up the deuterium. (They have power, have warpers, and have vessels.) Any advice?
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Feb 13, 2021 21:39
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Arcturas posted:Can someone help me troubleshoot gas giant exploitation? I've ringed my starting gas giant with extractors to make hydrogen and deuterium, and the towers are full of hydrogen & some deuterium. But the interstellar logistics towers on my orbiting world are on remote demand for deuterium, are empty, but aren't sending vessels to pick up the deuterium. (They have power, have warpers, and have vessels.) Any advice? they'll only go to pick up when they can get a full load unless you change that setting in your towers, and the individual towers on the giant probably don't have enough in them to fill a ship (they won't go to multiple towers to fill, they have to get it all from one) or at least, that's my guess on what's happening
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Feb 13, 2021 21:41
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IcePhoenix posted:they'll only go to pick up when they can get a full load unless you change that setting in your towers, and the individual towers on the giant probably don't have enough in them to fill a ship (they won't go to multiple towers to fill, they have to get it all from one) Oh, that makes total sense. I can afford to wait. I'm more concerned about the throughput. I figure a full ring on a gas giant will get me enough hydrogen and (directly and through fractionation) deuterium for a while.
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Feb 13, 2021 21:44
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Kin posted:I'm trying to get my head around the scale of the dyson sphere and the number of components needed to build it. Are we talking 100's of thousands of solar sails and the like for each item or is it more like 5000 or something? It's probably better to start by asking how much Dyson sphere power you need (or better yet, want), because as previously stated the amount of resources you can put into Dyson spheres is pretty much the amount of resources you can produce. For some perspective, producing 1 photon/second (i.e. 1 white science per second) requires 750 MW of ray receiver power, which would require a 1.5 GW Dyson sphere at 50% ray efficiency. A cell point (one solar sail), which is going to be the bulk of the energy production for medium and large radius spheres, gives about 15 KW on a 1.0 luninosity star. This means it takes 100,000 total solar sails to generate the power for 1 photon/second. A yellow belt sail factory (6 sails/s) will supply a 1.5 GW sphere in a little over 4.5 hours. A green belt sail factory (12/s) will supply it in half that. As sail factories are incredibly small compared to most other endgame factories (a green belt sail factory is around 60 total green assemblers from raw resources to finished product), the bigger bottleneck is usually E/M rails, as launching a yellow belt of sails requires 18 launchers constantly firing (so 2-4 times that in practice). On a large radius sphere a structure point (one carrier rocket) can support 50+ sails, so a 0.5/s or 1/s rocket factory is usually sufficient. Basically: Sails: 6/s: usually enough 12/s: a healthy amount of overproduction 30+/s: Dyson sphere for the sake of Dyson sphere Rockets: 0.5/s: usually enough 1/s: a healthy amount of overproduction 6+/s: Dyson sphere for the sake of Dyson sphere (for reference, my first factories were specced to around 1 rocket/s and 12 sails/s and my ability to generate Dyson sphere power has grown much faster than my ability to use that power)
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Feb 13, 2021 21:44
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How do you use the Thermal Power Station? It implies that you can put coal in it, but I haven't figured out how.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:22
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Mayveena posted:How do you use the Thermal Power Station? It implies that you can put coal in it, but I haven't figured out how. Just use a sorter/inserter on the side. One side has 2 slots, the other 3.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:24
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Mayveena posted:How do you use the Thermal Power Station? It implies that you can put coal in it, but I haven't figured out how. Also don't just put straight coal in it, smelt it to energized carbon if you have to or use refined oil or hydrogen.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:37
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RandomBlue posted:Also don't just put straight coal in it, smelt it to energized carbon if you have to or use refined oil or hydrogen. From the wiki: quote:Coal has an energy density of 2.7MJ. Coal can be smelted into Energetic Graphite at a 2:1 ratio, which has an energy density of 6.3MJ, 16% more joules. However, smelting Energetic Graphite requires 720 kJ, and the sorters to access the smelter adds ~36 kJ. This leaves a mere 5.6kJ over coal when processed, while increasing the overhead usage. Which requires more thermal generators for the same available wattage. So while refining oil is worth the investment (to the extent that burning oil products for energy is worth it), the energy you get from processing coal into carbon is a tiny fraction of what you'd get from using the same resources/space to build wind turbines. (and as you implied burning coal isn't really a useful thing to do in DSP given how low the early game power requirements are and how early better things to burn/fuse/annihilate are made available)
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Feb 13, 2021 23:58
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Goons I am in some serious loving trouble here I really am deep into this game where i am a gundam who paves over planets in order to pave over a motherfucking star
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Feb 14, 2021 00:02
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How do you get the oil from the extractor to the refinery?
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Feb 14, 2021 00:43
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Mayveena posted:How do you get the oil from the extractor to the refinery? belts
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Feb 14, 2021 00:49
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Mayveena posted:How do you get the oil from the extractor to the refinery? Belt out of the extractor then sorter from the belt to the refinery and sorters out of the refinery filtering on hydrogen for one and refined oil for the other.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:57
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WhiteHowler posted:Is Refined Oil more efficient for thermal plants than Energetic Graphite? Not that I've seen. If you want more hydrogen, you could always setup an x-ray cracking loop to use up all your refined oil and give you energetic graphite and more hydrogen.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:57
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I must have the crappest universe seed. Someone earlier mentioned I should be able to find the magnetised whatever rare ore on a Neutron star rather than my black hole. I ended up finding just one.... on the very outer edge of my universe with a 4-minute duration for warping. Luckily my black hole has a single tiny rock planet orbiting it and it's on there that the ore spawned for me.. This baron rock has me thinking it would actually be a good staging ground for building all of the dyson sphere components because there's no lava or oceans i need to pave over first. Can you build a sphere around the black hole though? I tried flying into it and the game just seems to treat it like a normal solar system.
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Feb 14, 2021 02:48
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Yes, you can, but I don't know if the black hole has very good luminosity so you might not get much power out of it.
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Feb 14, 2021 02:55
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Kin posted:I must have the crappest universe seed. Someone earlier mentioned I should be able to find the magnetised whatever rare ore on a Neutron star rather than my black hole. Presumably, though its very low luminosity obviously makes it a rather lovely choice. I'm kinda hoping years from now the devs will try their hand at an expansion that lets us build one of these bad boys instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCdoCfw-bY
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Feb 14, 2021 02:55
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we did it  
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Feb 14, 2021 03:58
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When creating an orbit for a dyson swarm or fiddling with dyson sphere settings, what is the unit of measurement for the radius? Meters? I'd like to setup a baby's first dyson swarm at 1 AU (inside the 1.12 AU of the innermost planet in my starter system) before deciding where to plant a dyson swarm. Also, any advice on starter settings would be helpful. e: Nevermind, appears the starter gas giant is 1 AU out, and the innermost planet is a closer distance. Question still remains about starter dyson swarms.
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Feb 14, 2021 05:38
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Repeatedly flying around to systems with gas giants to load them up with orbital collectors has made hydrogen and deuterium plentifully available, which is real nice. Now my bottleneck is antimatter. Is there some way to speed up solar sails moving from swarm orbits to actually join the dyson sphere? I've got like 5000 in orbit at any given moment but they don't seem to be moving to the sphere any faster than when I had 2000, so power production for antimatter is growing at a snail's pace.
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Feb 14, 2021 05:48
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:Presumably, though its very low luminosity obviously makes it a rather lovely choice. I'm kinda hoping years from now the devs will try their hand at an expansion that lets us build one of these bad boys instead: so that's what they were doing in High Life
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Feb 14, 2021 05:49
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I was so excited to get warpers I forgot to research drive engine level four.
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Feb 14, 2021 06:55
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Eschatos posted:Repeatedly flying around to systems with gas giants to load them up with orbital collectors has made hydrogen and deuterium plentifully available, which is real nice. Now my bottleneck is antimatter. Is there some way to speed up solar sails moving from swarm orbits to actually join the dyson sphere? I've got like 5000 in orbit at any given moment but they don't seem to be moving to the sphere any faster than when I had 2000, so power production for antimatter is growing at a snail's pace. It is limited by how many nodes you have, so if you want it to go faster you need to have more nodes for them to go to.
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Feb 14, 2021 13:58
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My two most annoying parts asbout this game right now: Handcrafting menu doesn't tell you which uncraftable resource is missing to craft an item. Doing a short belt rise to hop over another belt is seriously annoying, because I have to adjust my viewing angle at least twice to place it, then delete some of the extra belts I placed, then start over because I deleted one belt to much and I can't connect a belt to an inclined belt. Is there a secret way to connect an assembler or at least storage to an elevated belt? I am currently considering starting a totally new base in a different system because a single planet there has more iron then my whole starting system. And I hope to start with a real mall, so I need some tricks.
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Feb 14, 2021 14:25
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Kin posted:I must have the crappest universe seed. Someone earlier mentioned I should be able to find the magnetised whatever rare ore on a Neutron star rather than my black hole. Universe gen is only guaranteed to give you a single black hole and neutron star, 2 white dwarfs, one giant, and everything else is random. The quantity of resources on your bh/ns will depend on how far they are from your universe origin, the best black holes tend to be 40+ LY from origin. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vx05F1SGbpsnfH4qaxX-SVeTeTTkCQmvcbeMGO2DUM/htmlview#gid=0
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Feb 14, 2021 15:11
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I started playing this on Friday evening and I'm super hooked. I'm still very much in the 'gently caress around for hours trying to get basic automation done' phase of learning the game still. I've unlocked yellow science and have an incredibly convoluted way to acquire the crystals right now to make the matrices for it because my base is a loving disaster. I can, through great difficulty, produce the interstellar transport stuff though. Seeing as how the only thing special about my starter planet (that I assume isn't very special at all in the cluster) is the oil, I'm thinking of just building all my metals and other things elsewhere and slowly abandoning the planet except for oil-based products. And then probably eventually shipping those too. I have to say though I would kill for an underground belt option or similar. Building a ramp is very annoying.
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Feb 14, 2021 15:41
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Anybody have a good link to a power tutorial for this game? I do not understand 
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Feb 14, 2021 16:28
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Mayveena posted:Anybody have a good link to a power tutorial for this game? I do not understand For how to power structures? Or for how to generate power? For the former, it's like factorio, where tesla towers are your power poles. Tesla towers connect together and will supply power to nearby structures in their radius. Some power structures also provide power in a radius, though it's generally small and not that important outside of your first couple of miners. Power structures can also connect together so that you don't need to dot tesla towers down between them the way you have to put power poles down around turbines and solar panels in factorio. For power generation, you have a few options in the early game: 1. Wind power - this is your first power source and is pretty reliable on your starting planet (each planet has wind and solar efficiency ratings, and the starting planet seems to get good efficiency for both). Plonk down a turbine and enjoy the power. It's not a whole lot of power, but it does work. 2. Thermal generators - This is the second power source available, and isn't a bad stopgap to get you to better power sources later. It has inputs that are similar to smelters, and you can burn anything with a fuel value. Coal is perfectly fine to burn early on until you get oil refining, and then I'd burn oil products as a stopgap at that point instead (oil is unlimited). You'll phase this out fairly quickly, but it's a nice help to get over the early game hump in my experience. 3. Solar panels - These are only really readily available once you have silicon ore. They also only function in the sunlight, and your planet both rotates around the sun and around its own axis. This means that roughly half the planet at a time will be exposed to sunlight and available to produce power. What I and other people have done is create a belt of solar panels around a planet to ensure that the factory has constant power. It's pretty effective, but I personally held off until getting access to silicon ore directly, rather than turning stone into silicon. Edit: Images Tesla towers connecting to the grid as well as a breakdown of my grid. Blue is my available power generation, orange is my current consumption. I am making plenty of power, so everything is blue.  Wind turbine. You can see the power radius of the structure, and that it is generating 300kW  Solar Panel. You can see that it is generating almost no power since it is night time on that part of the planet, and how the panels are switching off. This is my solar belt. Also note that there are no tesla towers here; the panels hook up to each other without needing a power pole  Thermal generator. This one and a few others are burning crude oil for some power. I'm not using the oil for anything else, and it's infinite, so there's no reason not to do this. It's generating 2.16MW too, which is more than 7 turbines. I used these to power myself until I got access to silicon ore and made the solar belt. It's not decomissioned yet because I haven't expanded my production to the point where I am using all of my oil.  You asked about oil as well - one oil extractor is on the right side of the screenshot. You can see that there's a belt coming directly out of the extractor; no sorter (inserter) is needed to pull products out of it. Sorters are needed to pull products into the thermal generators though, and you can see those as the orange >> things in the screenshot that are connected to the thermal generators. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 17:09
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Dirk the Average posted:3. Solar panels - These are only really readily available once you have silicon ore. They also only function in the sunlight, and your planet both rotates around the sun and around its own axis. This means that roughly half the planet at a time will be exposed to sunlight and available to produce power. What I and other people have done is create a belt of solar panels around a planet to ensure that the factory has constant power. It's pretty effective, but I personally held off until getting access to silicon ore directly, rather than turning stone into silicon. An important thing to note is that some planets can be tidally locked, meaning one half of the planet is in daytime forever. If you set up on one of these, you can just cover the day side in as many panels as you want and put all your buildings on the night side.
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Feb 14, 2021 17:27
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Dirk the Average posted:For how to power structures? Or for how to generate power? Wow thanks!!! Yeah I will have to play with it some more I think. What caused me to ask the question is that I got the oil extractor and refinery up and working. It seemed to say that it generated power, but once I removed the wind turbines it stopped working. I don't understand that. Does the oil refinery generate power or not? I'll try putting crude into a thermal power station. And what about the wireless things? Thanks again! E: Also don't understand hydrogen? It's just a thing that comes out of the oil refinery? Confused....
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Feb 14, 2021 18:06
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Microcline posted:Basically: This is exactly what I was looking for. I just went for a nice round 1 rocket per second, but it's good to know that'll be adequate.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:21
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So aside from the infinite researches, I've basically finished the game. I can finally set this down and maybe pick it back up once it comes out of EA. The monkey is finally off my back.  However, this game is loving pretty: These are from the first real good start at my shell, after my Dyson ring was complete.  The first shell area I made was smaller than the "max" size since I hadn't read the post from this thread where the resources/power ratio is better if you maximize your shell segments.  I love the fact that this game REALLY allows you to see the scale of the things you've built.  My home planet, with a great view of the slowly forming shell.   My south pole. I originally had about half the amount of ray receivers, and ended up getting impatient. Since I had an excess of lenses, I extended the receivers around to get an acceptable amount of critical photons. The inner track is all gravitron lenses, the outer track is the return of critical photons. I made it just barely across the "finish line" as my home system was about 80% exploited for raw resources, and I'm running nearly dry and would need to start importing iron/copper/silicon from other close systems via warpers if I wanted to do any more of the white cube research.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:22
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Mayveena posted:Wow thanks!!! Yeah I will have to play with it some more I think. What caused me to ask the question is that I got the oil extractor and refinery up and working. It seemed to say that it generated power, but once I removed the wind turbines it stopped working. I don't understand that. Does the oil refinery generate power or not? I'll try putting crude into a thermal power station. And what about the wireless things? Thanks again! Hydrogen is a byproduct you have to deal with when refining oil. Starting out, feel free to put a splitter on the output line, filter out the hydrogen, and feed it all into thermal plants. Once you start getting recipes that need hydrogen, staring piping that stream to wherever you need it.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:29
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