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emma was a space nazi who somehow had no idea she was a space nazi until her space nazi peers murdered a hostage. it's not like the titans were ever within shouting distance of subtlety, so they didn't really bother to conceal the kind of organization it was. i wouldn't really call her stupid, but the lady was the universal champion of being oblivious.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:27
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I initially got on Etsy to look for a ring but got it in my head to search Gundam Wing and found this. I saw it and felt the need to share, if only because I would never have thought that Gundam character would get a big boob mouse pad.
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Feb 20, 2021 05:34
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Oh there's one for kudelia too, pretty useful since I had to spend $35 to get free shipping on 'em
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Feb 20, 2021 05:37
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Warmachine posted:
I've seen this before, and I don't buy it. Wing is still about a conflict between Earth and the Colonies, it's still got Gundams blowing up hundreds of monoeyed mooks, and it's got the most one-for-one Char clone of any Gundam show before or since. That's not some unique vision that steps away from the UC. That's just another Gundam show. It was a success, too, so even if we act like it's uniquely unformulaic, it didn't poison the well. If anything, it would have set precedent for future shows to not follow the original too strictly. Looking at the series overall, you've got AGE and the SEED shows as clear UC mimics, with 00 season 2 arguably leaning hard into Zeta and X being set up as a sequel to the Not!One Year War, but 00 season 1 is much closer to Wing than anything else, IBO is more of a yakuza drama than a war story, G and Turn A have been discussed already, and G-Reco's its own thing. As for Emma, we see with Ajis Aziba later in Zeta that a lot of the Titans don't even know the party line, let alone follow it. He's shown as completely unaware of the corruption in his organization, despite being an officer piloting an elite limited production Mobile Suit. (In fact, he starts the episode thinking that the Titans are meant to be the moral exemplars of the Federation). Even Jerid doesn't know how scuzzy they get until well after he was picked as one of the Gundam pilots.
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Feb 20, 2021 05:54
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Gundam Wing hasn't aired on Toonami in 19 years
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Feb 20, 2021 06:12
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It was great when they did. Midnight run for that real deathsythe hell flavor
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Feb 20, 2021 06:15
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Staying up to catch Heero's self distruction with the blood is one of those teen moments.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:17
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DamnGlitch posted:It was great when they did. Midnight run for that real deathsythe hell flavor Pretty sure I have my old vhs tapes of that somewhere. Probably unwatchable even if I did get a vcr working.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:17
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I wish I had watched Gundam wing as a youth. Maybe I wouldn't have grown up to be such a gently caress up
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Feb 20, 2021 06:18
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Far from poisoning the well, Gundam Wing seemed to inspire future series, including the incredibly popular SEED. Lacus is just a much less cool Relena and I remember tons of Wing and 00 comparisons when I watched the series for the first time.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:31
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wdarkk posted:Pretty sure I have my old vhs tapes of that somewhere. Probably unwatchable even if I did get a vcr working. I taped I think ep3 til the end of Gundam wing. Got all of outlaw star except the last episode (very frustrating). Most of s1 of big o
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Feb 20, 2021 06:32
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NikkolasKing posted:Far from poisoning the well, Gundam Wing seemed to inspire future series, including the incredibly popular SEED. Lacus is just a much less cool Relena and I remember tons of Wing and 00 comparisons when I watched the series for the first time. Relena and Lacus don't really have much in common except "is a female lead in a Gundam show." Relena is basically a next-generation Sayla who gets to have equal plot importance and insanity to her brother. Lacus doesn't really share any common traits with her beyond "dislikes war" and "is a woman."
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Feb 20, 2021 06:35
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Wing has the advantage of having it's Auchan commentary become more relevant with time, the role autonomous weapons are going to play in combat only becomes more relevant every year. And the psychological distance it creates, it would take more than a little wrangling to get soldiers to invade a neutral nation and shoot up a wedding, but with a drone it's more easily hand wrung away.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:39
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ImpAtom posted:Relena and Lacus don't really have much in common except "is a female lead in a Gundam show." Relena is basically a next-generation Sayla who gets to have equal plot importance and insanity to her brother. Lacus doesn't really share any common traits with her beyond "dislikes war" and "is a woman." I'd agree. I think Marina is a better comparison compared to Lacus and Marina definitely comes off as someone doing a more negative take on Relena. The dynamic between Marina and Setsuna also has more of the vibe of Relena and Heero's dynamic than Kira and Lacus. Lacus comes off more as a Dianna type of princess, not a Relena type, to me.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:40
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Kudelia reminds me a bit of Ralena if she wasn't an insane Wing character.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:43
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ImpAtom posted:Relena and Lacus don't really have much in common except "is a female lead in a Gundam show." Relena is basically a next-generation Sayla who gets to have equal plot importance and insanity to her brother. Lacus doesn't really share any common traits with her beyond "dislikes war" and "is a woman." Relena's a helluva lot more like Lacus in narrative function than Sayla. Sayla's primary role in the story is as an active duty combatant, like Amuro or Kai. Yes, she has political weight, and she's got the whole Char subplot, but (until the Origin) her political power was never used actively. She's arguably a prototype version of the Gundam peace princess, but most of the traits people think of in the role don't come from her. (For the most obvious example, Sayla's a stone cold killer.) Meanwhile, Relena (like Lacus) is primarily important in the narrative for political influence, arguing for peace using inherited power and motivating the Gundam pilot to succeed, rather than going out and killing using her own hands. Further, while Amuro and Sayla could have been a thing (and they were in the novel), Lacus, like Relena, has her relationship with the main Gundam pilot in the center of the story. (Meanwhile, Sayla's narrative role is taken up by Cagilli, although Mu handles the Char clone's long lost sibling duties) Relena basically locks in the template for Gundam princesses that would continue (in various forms) through SEED, 00, IBO, Unicorn, and even Gundam knockoffs like Aldnoah Zero. The fact she has much more narrative focus than most later examples doesn't change that fact. Kira Yamato, Flit Asuno, and Amuro Ray are very different characters, but the later two are clearly inspired by the original. Likewise, Lacus and Relena are distinct, but Lacus's narrative role is something inspired more by Relena's than anything in the original Gundam.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:51
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chiasaur11 posted:Relena's a helluva lot more like Lacus in narrative function than Sayla. Lacus literally steals multiple weapons including her own personal carrier which she personally captains on the battlefield. She makes a point of the fact that she is willing to go out and spill blood to live up to her ideals which is why the Eternal is painted red-pink. (It's just pink but whatever you say anime.) One of the distinctive things about Lacus is that she actively argues for people to fight. She straight up gifts Kira with Freedom and is like "Here is a new sword for you" and when Athrun meets her before going off with Justice she's guarded by armed soldiers who brutally murder the people trying to ambush her. Lacus wants there to be peace and she hates the idea of war but she is also a person who actively argues that you need to fight and provides weapons to do so. She is on the front lines for a good chunk of time and at no real point do we see her arguing for pacifism, just against ongoing war. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 07:19
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Gaius Marius posted:Wing has the advantage of having it's Auchan commentary become more relevant with time, the role autonomous weapons are going to play in combat only becomes more relevant every year. And the psychological distance it creates, it would take more than a little wrangling to get soldiers to invade a neutral nation and shoot up a wedding, but with a drone it's more easily hand wrung away. Ironically that's not really the case Drone Operators actually have a PTSD rate higher than infantry do Unless you meant politically than yeah you have a point Tulalip Tulips posted:I'd agree. I think Marina is a better comparison compared to Lacus and Marina definitely comes off as someone doing a more negative take on Relena. The dynamic between Marina and Setsuna also has more of the vibe of Relena and Heero's dynamic than Kira and Lacus. Lacus comes off more as a Dianna type of princess, not a Relena type, to me. Honestly Marina is basically the one major flaw I feel 00 has in it's first season(well that and Nena just disappearing from the rest of the season after her brothers get killed, and then her presence in season 2 being mostly pointless), her subplot goes nowhere during that season and is just a depressing drag on any episode it shows up in, would be better to remove it(but then I've talked before about how I like 00 better when treating it's first season as a standalone series and ignoring season 2 and the movie) NikkolasKing posted:Far from poisoning the well, Gundam Wing seemed to inspire future series, including the incredibly popular SEED. Lacus is just a much less cool Relena and I remember tons of Wing and 00 comparisons when I watched the series for the first time. Probably it's biggest innovation is solidifying the whole "team of varied Gundams" concept that G served as a prototype of(though it's not till 00 that I feel the concept really works as intended)
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Feb 20, 2021 08:33
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Tulalip Tulips posted:I initially got on Etsy to look for a ring but got it in my head to search Gundam Wing and found this. I saw it and felt the need to share, if only because I would never have thought that Gundam character would get a big boob mouse pad. Come on, Akihiro is right there.
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Feb 20, 2021 15:11
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ImpAtom posted:Lacus literally steals multiple weapons including her own personal carrier which she personally captains on the battlefield. She makes a point of the fact that she is willing to go out and spill blood to live up to her ideals which is why the Eternal is painted red-pink. (It's just pink but whatever you say anime.) One of the distinctive things about Lacus is that she actively argues for people to fight. She straight up gifts Kira with Freedom and is like "Here is a new sword for you" and when Athrun meets her before going off with Justice she's guarded by armed soldiers who brutally murder the people trying to ambush her. If anything this makes Lacus seem more like a "next gen Sayla". Relena never gets on a killing machine outside of a videogame and only shoots a gun once. It's a really cool and memorable shooting of a gun but it's still only once. TBH I think debating which gundam princess is the origin of the archetype or closer to some kind of platonic ideal misses the point that they're part of a continuum building upon and exploring different takes on the same idea. Relena is a Sayla in the same sense that Lacus is a Relena and a Diana and a Sayla. They all share some elements with their predecessors, diverge from others, and bring something new to the table.
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Feb 20, 2021 15:12
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drrockso20 posted:Ironically that's not really the case Drone Operators actually have a PTSD rate higher than infantry do That's pretty interesting, I wonder how many of them were relatively fine until it news started dropping of the amount of non combatants being killed. I did mean it both ways though, like can you imagine how much more hosed up the middle east and north africa would be if the US had fully autonomous units, much easier to cover up and no unfortunate PTSD riddled soldiers or whistleblowers to worry about.
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Feb 20, 2021 15:59
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https://twitter.com/MoldyArtichoke/status/1362830874518183939
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Feb 20, 2021 21:34
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Why is like 80% of gundam conversation "how well does x fit into y hole" or "why arent we trying to put x in a z hole instead"
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Feb 20, 2021 21:42
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Quote is not edit
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Feb 20, 2021 21:42
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Chars looking very job john there
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Feb 20, 2021 21:55
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ninjewtsu posted:Why is like 80% of gundam conversation "how well does x fit into y hole" or "why arent we trying to put x in a z hole instead" i wonder how char would fit in my hole
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Feb 20, 2021 22:04
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ninjewtsu posted:Why is like 80% of gundam conversation "how well does x fit into y hole" or "why arent we trying to put x in a z hole instead" That’s every loving fandom in the world.
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Feb 20, 2021 22:10
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Midjack posted:That’s every loving fandom in the world. i've never seen one with as many nor as specific definitions for holes as the gundam conversations in this thread
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Feb 20, 2021 22:32
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dogsicle posted:there is a definite whiplash to them just going oh gently caress and making Zechs into Every Char after the series was more or less doing its own thing The production team seem to have had a bit of a different view on what Wing was, and it's relationship to UC going off interviews like this quote:Apparently the writers sat down and, in one week, belted out the concepts for the main cast, MS, and the first 40 episodes, causing Director Masashi Ikeda to comment "It's like you're doing First, Zeta, and G all at once!" I can see how the show pans out a bit like 0079, Zeta and Char's Counterattack (unmentioned, I know, but given he was only talking about up to episode 40, it feels warranted) too; with the Federation analogue Alliance originally in control as the status quo while the rebellious colonies try to them down via Operation Meteor and then after a while the Federation being taken over by an internal power struggle that empowers a small, elite organization that uses terror tactics to retain power a la the Titans before they're eventually defeated and suddenly the Char analogue leads a new faction in the colonies that wants to crash a big object in to Earth. A lot of the details are obviously different, but in broad sweeps there's certainly similarities. Gaius Marius posted:That's pretty interesting, I wonder how many of them were relatively fine until it news started dropping of the amount of non combatants being killed. I haven't looked in to it in several years, but the last time I read up on PTSD among drone operators I found conflicting information with some articles claiming there was a similar rate of incidence in drone operators as front line soldiers, while other articles claim it was a lower rate. I think they were talking about roughly half as often in the studies that report a lower rate. I do recall thinking that the lower rate was probably more believable though, because the article claiming that they suffered similar levels was based on one study with a small sample size, if I recall. Which is never great. It's going to be difficult to pin down however, just because it something that's given far less attention than PTSD among front line soldiers. That said, the reason in every article or interview that I read up on indicates that it would happen before any reports about non-combatants for the simple reason that the people who talked about developing PTSD did so after directly watching people die, including many non-combatants, through camera footage of their drones and so wouldn't need to wait for reports that lay that out. What they indicate is basically that for some soldiers they find it impossible to compartmentalize sitting in a comfortable, air-conditioned room basically playing a video game (often including literally using an X-Box controller given how cheap and adaptable they are compared to dedicated controllers) where they end up killing real people, and then after a few hours of doing that go home and have dinner with their families. It creates a disconnect in their minds, especially since they obviously cannot talk to their family about how they really felt their day went given the subject matter and that often what they're doing is subject to secrecy. So it just builds up in their psyche. The remote view they have might seem to make it more academic, but the fact they often have to rewatch the footage of people dying multiple times for reports of various kinds means that they end up connecting with it regardless. Something that did stand out to me a while ago was reading an article about how content editors for YouTube, Reddit etc. apparently have a very high rate of PTSD and psychological problems for what are basically the same reasons i.e. that they're often tasked with watching dozens of hours of footage of the worst human behaviour, and that most people can't do it for long. The major companies say that they only ever require any one editor to do it for a few hours a week, and constantly rotate people to ensure there are no issues but that only applies to direct staff, while they often sub out the job to small companies, where people have to do it far more often, watching videos of all kinds of violence to ensure that objectionable content is removed. The central interviewee in the article being a woman who had reviewed so much content that sexualized minors while reviewing videos for YouTube that she had a breakdown and had to take psychological leave, because she couldn't even look at kids anymore without feeling disturbed. Distance doesn't really emotionally isolate you from something though, and regardless of what the rate of incidence is, there's always going to be some people who take it harder than others or connect on a more emotional level to what they're doing than others; and the chances of it only increase the more often you have to do it. In a full on war, the rate of PTSD would probably be quite high even for drone operators, just because they'd be doing it so much. In the case of fully autonomous drones I expect it would still happen, just because someone would have to supervise them, which means someone would be watching what they are doing and probably reviewing it multiple times for reports. Which would almost certainly result in cases of PTSD too. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 23:08
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ninjewtsu posted:i've never seen one with as many nor as specific definitions for holes as the gundam conversations in this thread Fire Emblem, where two nerds can get into an extended argument over whether the strong pre-promote cavalry guy is more similar to strong pre-promote cavalry guy from one game or strong pre-promote cavalry guy from another game. Kanos fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 23:12
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Is there a reason why Wing only had 49 episodes?
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Feb 20, 2021 23:16
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Gaius Marius posted:That's pretty interesting, I wonder how many of them were relatively fine until it news started dropping of the amount of non combatants being killed. UAVs are the military’s version of work from home anyway.
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Feb 20, 2021 23:16
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Astoundingly Ugly Baby posted:Is there a reason why Wing only had 49 episodes? I would guess it's to do with the major networks that Banrise produce for. When they negotiate for airtime the network(s) would presumably have their schedule blocked out for the forseeable future and be able to go "well, we can sell you for 51 episodes this year on this timeslot" and then other years only have 49 episodes due to specials airing during the year or what have you. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 23:17
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How many more would you like
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Feb 20, 2021 23:36
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Sjs00 posted:How many more would you like As many as I can get, buddy
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Feb 20, 2021 23:44
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dogsicle posted:there is a definite whiplash to them just going oh gently caress and making Zechs into Every Char after the series was more or less doing its own thing I'm not sure how well known this is and whether you personally know this or not but there's probably a reason the second half feels different and that's because the original series director Masashi Ikeda left the production around the halfway mark, and Shinji Takamatsu took over his role. I believe he wasn't even credited in the show itself, because Ikeda left on friendly terms. My impression on reading up on it at one point was that he basically had a bit of a breakdown because the show's production was getting too much for him, so he stepped away from the show and someone else took over the series director role in his place. Which is why there's two clipshows back to back at one point (episode 27 and 28). I've seen some people place it as being the head writer, Katsuyuki Sumizawa that left the production at that point, which seems to be an especially prevalent rumor on /m/ over at 4chan (or was a few years ago, at least) but no, Sumizawa was the head writer from start to finish, along with writing Endless Waltz, the Episode Zero manga, Glory of the Losers, Frozen Teardrop and maybe one or two other Gundam Wing things. The show is basically his baby, for better or worse. The fact he wrote so much Gundam Wing would imply he had a fairly large hand in the story's direction, but he may not have had as much influence during the original show's production, so it's certainly plausible that Takamatsu changed some of what the show would be going for over what Ikeda had set up. I've never seen anything indicating any changed plans, but some Gundam Wing databooks or something might contain notes about it.
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Feb 21, 2021 00:14
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Sjs00 posted:How many more would you like Going by the sentiment of the thread? All of Frozen Teardrop. I love this, but the related tweets gave me this: https://twitter.com/Lucymomosirou45/status/1362872905827110916?s=20 chiasaur11 posted:I've seen this before, and I don't buy it. Wing is still about a conflict between Earth and the Colonies, it's still got Gundams blowing up hundreds of monoeyed mooks, and it's got the most one-for-one Char clone of any Gundam show before or since. That's not some unique vision that steps away from the UC. That's just another Gundam show. NikkolasKing posted:Far from poisoning the well, Gundam Wing seemed to inspire future series, including the incredibly popular SEED. Lacus is just a much less cool Relena and I remember tons of Wing and 00 comparisons when I watched the series for the first time. I've been thinking about how to answer this and the notion that the presence of colonies and earth, monoeye mooks, and a Char clone equal the story beats of First Gundam without making it sound like I'm moving the goalposts of my argument. While Zech doing a speedrun of Char's arc certainly counts, the first two were basically saying that "because they both involve aliens attacking earth and have flying saucers, Stargate SG-1 and Independence Day follow the same track!" Monoeye = bad, face = good is just a genre trope. Same for Earth vs. colonies. I'm claiming Wing is unlike the UC because: 1) Wing inverts the conflict. The space colonies are the good guys, actually fighting for independence against the literal Napoleonic Earth imperialists of OZ and Romefeller. (Nevermind the info about the Barton Foundation and Dekim we learn much later.) 2) Wing atomizes the conflict. In every UC property up to that point with the exception of F91, the protagonist is part of a larger fighting force that functions as a found family for them. For the majority of Wing's runtime, the boys are running solo or duo guerilla operations, and build connections independent of each other. Heero and Duo have a bit of a connection. Quatre and Trowa forge a bond. The closest thing Wu Fei gets is Sally. 3) Wing doesn't hammer the horror of war nearly as hard as any given UC property. If anything, the thesis Wing makes about war is that the human element of warfare is the check against its horror. Certainly that was Treize's outlook, and the show ultimately agrees with him whether or not he was considered an antagonist. The biggest anti-war bit I can remember from Wing is the burning of the Sanc Kingdom, but the setup frames it that the reason this is bad is that it's specifically the Sanc Kingdom getting invaded. Wing is closer to G Gundam's formula (which isn't really Gundam outside the name and general design aesthetic of the protagonist's suit). Anchoring bias suggests that since Gundam Wing was the first Gundam western fans would likely be exposed to, this is what they'd come to expect "Gundam" was like. 0079 was aired before G Gundam, however I'd imagine the fact that neither attempts to show it finished their runs and the older animation that was very different from that of Wing (compared to Zeta, which never got a TV run) did little to dislodge the anchoring effect Gundam Wing would have had on the audience. So when I say "Gundam Wing poisoned the well," I don't mean it didn't set tropes to come in later series. What I mean is that, at least in the west, it set the expectation for what a Gundam show is, as opposed to in Japan where the anchor would have been some flavor of Universal Century or G Gundam assuming syndication works the same in Japan as in the United States. Seed functioned to reframe the image I think as well, since it didn't have the cancellation or old animation issues 0079 did. But my assessment isn't meant to say anything about Japanese reactions and preferences to Gundam. I'm looking exclusively at western consumption of the franchise and making some educated guesses. If anyone has the ratings info for Wing, 0079, G Gundam, and Seed in the United States, that would be of great interest to me.
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Feb 21, 2021 00:41
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Warmachine posted:Wing is closer to G Gundam's formula (which isn't really Gundam outside the name and general design aesthetic of the protagonist's suit). I definitely disagree with this. G Gundam has a really different take on Gundam, but still tackles a lot of the themes that normally comprise a Gundam show. So it's still about young people inheriting the problems of the previous generation, a conflict that involves Earth and it's artificial colonies along with environmentalism for instance. You also get series staples like artificially enhanced humans who are driven mad by their machines, the mysterious masked character and even some things that are certainly part of Gundam, even if not unique to it, such as Domon's father building one of the mobile suits that are central to the story. Going off what we know of G Gundam's production, Tomino stepped away from the production of another UC series set after Victory early in production called Polke Gundam, with the recommendation that Banrise hire Imagawa, a student of his, to helm the production instead. Imagawa was all ready to dive in to a more traditional Gundam story, but was mandated to work on something with a tournament structure because those were popular with young boys and so Imagawa came up with the story and setting of G Gundam, making a tournament sports show that kept a lot of the elements of Gundam while meeting producer demands. Apparently he also took the mechanical design as a challenge, and tried to design units that would be impossible to replicate in Gunpla. So when Bandai turned out models that had the flexibility of the units in show he felt defeated but proud. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 00:55
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I've thought a lot about that too. If Char's a medical student like Sayla was, then he's going to kill at least one person on the operating table as an "accident" to cover something up. Probably more. Meanwhile, Sayla's going to have a harder time killing Garma. She's a much more normal person than Char, and even if she's all in for revenge, it's going to be rougher on someone who's not kinda a sociopath.
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Feb 21, 2021 01:33
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This is very sweet https://twitter.com/feezy_feez/status/1358942949761974272
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Feb 21, 2021 02:35
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