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Siegkrow posted:I dunno I prefer Rebuild to the originals.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:36
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I'd be fully on board with the Rebuilds if they were radically different from the start.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:43
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I feel like they're better off as sequels even though they are intended to be more accessible for newcomers. The distillation works better if you know the underlying bones and the movies know it too. Retroactively making EOE a mid-point in the story and coming back to resolve that mind gently caress in a satisfying way really adds points to Rebuild for me Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 19:44
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KaptainKrunk posted:The Rebuilds just make me think of how much better Anno's time would have been spent on making new stuff or films like Shin Godzilla. To me the entire exercise always felt like a long, painfully drawn out cash grab, as TV + EoE is pretty much perfect. Doing something from whole new cloth I could understand, but I don't see how the Rebuild movies are any less interesting than "Anno does Cutie Honey" "Anno does Godzilla" and "Anno does Ultraman" and I love all of those! Well, I love Shin Godzilla, Ultraman isn't out yet and and the Cutie Honey movie suffers due to having watched it too close to Re:Cutie Honey hoping that if this pattern continues he does Shin Kamen Rider Faiz next and gets someone with a lick of sense to write it this time
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Mar 10, 2021 19:45
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A lot of those properties (hate using that word; gross) haven't been done in a long time and Anno has an interesting eye for action. They're more "new" than Anno doing Rebuild films which are like 80% similar to the original. His live action stuff in the late 90s was also good (check out Love & Pop and Ritual if you haven't already). My overall point is that I would have much rather seen Anno stretch his legs and do original works during the time that he instead spent on the Rebuilds. I'm excited to see what he does from now on given he's like one of a handful of Japanese auteur filmmakers left. I'm sure 3.0+1.0 is good and provides closure blah blah blah, but I got that from EoE.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:55
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It's time for Shin Love & Shin Pop.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:57
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It might have been closure for you but I don't know if it was closure for Anno. It really feels like Rebuild is his way of working through things he couldn't find the words for back in the 90s.
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Mar 10, 2021 20:01
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To me it feels like the first two Rebuild movies basically fast-forward through Shinji's development from the original series of learning to open himself to others even if it means eventually getting hurt, and then 3.0 is about trying to move forward after the "getting hurt" part happens. By the start of 3.0 Shinji already knows that he needs other people in his life, that he can't just run away whenever someone reaches out to him, and that he needs to give himself the opportunity to love and be loved. The movie is then about what happens when those things that he knows he needs are forcibly taken away from him, and the self-destructive actions he takes out of desperation to rebuild those connections. In that sense, 3.0 feels a lot more like a "New" Anno movie than the first two movies to me.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:33
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Augus posted:To me it feels like the first two Rebuild movies basically fast-forward through Shinji's development from the original series of learning to open himself to others even if it means eventually getting hurt, and then 3.0 is about trying to move forward after the "getting hurt" part happens. By the start of 3.0 Shinji already knows that he needs other people in his life, that he can't just run away whenever someone reaches out to him, and that he needs to give himself the opportunity to love and be loved. The movie is then about what happens when those things that he knows he needs are forcibly taken away from him, and the self-destructive actions he takes out of desperation to rebuild those connections. In that sense, 3.0 feels a lot more like a "New" Anno movie than the first two movies to me. Yeah I'm in a similar space wrt my feelings on the movies I've watched so far. And - especially when combined with Anno's legendarily incredible storyboards - I'm very grateful that the movies exist.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:45
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Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip.
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Mar 11, 2021 02:26
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I watched tv series, eoe, and straight into rebuild 1 & 2 a few years ago after having not seen the originals since being a teenager (which was well after they came out) and ... the rebuilds are good, but I really feel like the viewer’s experience of the original story does a lot to give significance to the events in rebuild. Otherwise I could definitely see it feeling kind of busy and overwrought, especially 2 & 3. That’s also why I like the idea of time loop or sequel. It’s kind of incomplete without the originals. Sure it could end with no callbacks or hints to an actual connection to the og series and still be, like, a spiritual successor informed by the original work, but even with as much of an auteur as Anno is, I still think that’d be a little pretentious. dishwasherlove posted:Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip. Did they really, or is it just that someone is miscalculating the btc/usd conversion?
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Mar 11, 2021 02:34
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dishwasherlove posted:Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip. Isn’t it cheaper to just fly to Japan?
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Mar 11, 2021 03:04
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hatty posted:Isn’t it cheaper to just fly to Japan? Much. Even including a hotel room, food, and theater tickets. That said, having the camrips means being able to have individual moments of the film available for reference, which is handy in apocalyptic shipping wars, and it means controlling the flow of data in the wider internet. (Basically, it means having gifs if you won, or making sure that nobody else has those gifs for a while if you lost). It's dumb, but I can see the reasoning. Especially if you've got a lot of bitcoin and poor financial sense. SMERSH Mouth posted:I watched tv series, eoe, and straight into rebuild 1 & 2 a few years ago after having not seen the originals since being a teenager (which was well after they came out) and ... the rebuilds are good, but I really feel like the viewer’s experience of the original story does a lot to give significance to the events in rebuild. Otherwise I could definitely see it feeling kind of busy and overwrought, especially 2 & 3. From what I've seen the film does confirm that Shinji in some way experienced the series and EoE before the films, even if he didn't remember them until late into this one. It's a sequel, but exactly how that works may be open to interpretation.
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Mar 11, 2021 03:12
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I listened to One Last Kiss and it was good. I'm not much for soft pop but it was a sweet sounding song. Looking Utada up she's got a lot of R&B influence in her music doesn't she?
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Mar 11, 2021 03:29
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chiasaur11 posted:Much. Even including a hotel room, food, and theater tickets. Well, assuming Japan will let you in, which isn't true for much of the world at the moment. Arcsquad12 posted:I listened to One Last Kiss and it was good. I'm not much for soft pop but it was a sweet sounding song. Looking Utada up she's got a lot of R&B influence in her music doesn't she? She was on the Def Jam label for a while in the early 2000s.
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Mar 11, 2021 03:44
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dishwasherlove posted:Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip. hideki anno is gonna hear about this and decide to remake evangelion’s ending a fourth time
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Mar 11, 2021 03:50
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dishwasherlove posted:Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip. 
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Mar 11, 2021 10:18
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You know, I gotta say. I did not see Anno taking that direction. Then again, you don't hire Kazuya Tsurumaki when you want something predictable.
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Mar 11, 2021 10:31
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dishwasherlove posted:Can't believe someone paid $10k for a cam rip. My understanding is someone hosed up and misread and it was actually $300.
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Mar 11, 2021 15:34
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BGM of this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yaWcRmjlcw
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Mar 11, 2021 16:53
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Is it considered old hat to talk about the reaction to Asuka's character in the original TV run? I mean with the benefit of hindsight and two and a half decades of overanalysis it's pretty clear what Anno's intentions were with her (though I didn't know she was pegged as the main protagonist during early development, that's neat) were. But since I missed the boat being a literal child in 96-97 and I don't think YTV ever aired the show, I watched it later in life after debate had raged for a while. What was the general reaction to her character? She's definitely polarizing because of her attitude but for people getting mad at her for being a brat and a self destructive abuser, that's kind of the point. Did the calmer retrospection on her character come later or was their a vocal group at the time who understood what the show was going for by subverting her character archetype? I guess in fewer words: What drew people to Asuka to begin with and were they drawn to her because of or in spite of her glaring flaws as a broken teenager?
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Mar 12, 2021 16:00
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I can only speak for myself, but in a vacuum around 2000-2001 with no significant way to discuss it indepth online or with anyone IRL who would have given a poo poo, Asuka was (and still is) my favorite character because even back then I found the swerve with her later characterization to be so compelling. I'd gather that most young/initial fans would latch on to Misato of the cast the most and it's really just a matter of whether the back episodes do enough to sway that evaluation between the two characters, which in my case it did. If anything I feel most adverse reactions I've seen from people are those who are watching the show for the first time as adults and have way less patience for her initial brash, confrontational, haughty introductory arc, which as a teen didn't really bother me that much for whatever variety of reasons.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:15
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Nate RFB posted:If anything I feel most adverse reactions I've seen from people are those who are watching the show for the first time as adults and have way less patience for her initial brash, confrontational, haughty introductory arc, which as a teen didn't really bother me that much for whatever variety of reasons. See now I'm in the reverse because you come to accept that everyone is an rear end in a top hat in their early teens so I got where they were going with her, especially given the context of her later breakdown. But this is all (I'm guessing? You're not a 90s teen from Japan are you?) a more international perspective on her character. I'd be really curious and interested to see what the original audience reaction would have been. I mean it's not THAT big a difference from the way that other countries react to characters, I'm sure, but reading through background notes about anime production there's definitely "types" that producers want for their characters to fall into because they rate so well with target demographics. So I'd be really interested to see how a Japanese audience going in expecting her to be a typical tsundere jerk would react to her becoming a lot more dynamic as she falls apart. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 16:31
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I watched Evangelion via mail-order VHS fansubs in the US of A as a Highschool Freshmen, so that is the cultural perspective I was speaking from. I did not have a particular huge trove of other anime characters to compare her against either, since at that time I was pretty much just watching Dragonball, Tenchi Muyo, and the random movies that were slowly coming out like Ghost in the Shell.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:49
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Nate RFB posted:Having rewatched the whole thing over the holidays I disagree, there's barely a skeleton of what makes the first 19 episodes work in the first two movies and lot of the textures to the characters that make them actually interesting is naturally distilled down or outright discarded. The most interesting and compelling aspects are where they choose to diverge or introduce their own threads and it's a big part of why I was so much more forgiving of 3.0 in that rewatch. I get this complaint with the first rebuild which was just a very pretty remake with a slightly more active and determined Shinji, but the second really starts taking liberties p early on with the rest of the story.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:43
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The introductory Asuka episodes getting reduced are mostly fine, but my main gripe with the 2.0 version is that I think replacing Touji with Asuka for Bardiel was a net negative to that version of the story across the board, even if it did result in eyepatch Asuka who is cool and good and my friend.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 20:50
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Nate RFB posted:Having rewatched the whole thing over the holidays I disagree, there's barely a skeleton of what makes the first 19 episodes work in the first two movies and lot of the textures to the characters that make them actually interesting is naturally distilled down or outright discarded. The most interesting and compelling aspects are where they choose to diverge or introduce their own threads and it's a big part of why I was so much more forgiving of 3.0 in that rewatch. I don't really like comparing the series with the Rebuilds, but the simplification of several characters and events (while necessary due to running time) will always make me see the Rebuilds as the weaker Eva. Nate RFB posted:The introductory Asuka episodes getting reduced are mostly fine, but my main gripe with the 2.0 version is that I think replacing Touji with Asuka for Bardiel was a net negative to that version of the story across the board, even if it did result in eyepatch Asuka who is cool and good and my friend. Also this. While Shikinami is the weaker Asuka by far, the eyepatch was a masterstroke of character design.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:55
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I mean, that's eye bandaged Asuka at the End of Evangelion too. It made sense to bring that element from EoE into the Rebuilds even if it happens in a different way.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:03
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Utada is the only great thing about about the Rebuilds.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:22
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look I just want my closure to that drat beach scene and since 3.0 + 1 has that it's worth it.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:28
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I thought the ambiguity (what happens next?) of the beach scene in EoE wasn't important because it took place within the context of an unambiguous thematic ending. It felt very appropriate, like any other ending would have felt wrong.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:46
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I think the Rebuilds are incredibly interesting and fun, I just definitely don't prefer them on the whole over the series/EoE and would certainly be resistant to any notions that they're some sort of replacement for them.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:49
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Look it's decades of arrested development and I'm happy it got addressed without getting erased. It's going back to your adolescence and looking at it again with adult eyes and it does make me happy. Viewing it as a continuation rather than a replacement and I'm fine with that. I know that's not something everyone wants but it is something I need to look at EOE as part of a bigger picture. The latter half of the movie feels a big confused to me as it builds up to the finale so going back and addressing that last scene really appeals to my desire to see all the horrible poo poo Shinji and Asuka endured get addressed, even if it is just for a fleeting moment where he's not strangling her. Also because I'm turning 28 in June I definitely empathize with Rebuild Asuka being stuck in an endless adolescence while her mind ages. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 22:49
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Nate RFB posted:I can only speak for myself, but in a vacuum around 2000-2001 with no significant way to discuss it indepth online or with anyone IRL who would have given a poo poo, Asuka was (and still is) my favorite character because even back then I found the swerve with her later characterization to be so compelling. I'd gather that most young/initial fans would latch on to Misato of the cast the most and it's really just a matter of whether the back episodes do enough to sway that evaluation between the two characters, which in my case it did. If anything I feel most adverse reactions I've seen from people are those who are watching the show for the first time as adults and have way less patience for her initial brash, confrontational, haughty introductory arc, which as a teen didn't really bother me that much for whatever variety of reasons. Well, one thing I do know is that back in the day (and constantly since then, with only one poll deviating from the baseline) Rei was the most popular character. Misato hardly registers in comparison. (Rei's one of the most beloved anime characters in general, to the point that most harem anime include a character referencing her as a matter of course.) Rei's got a nice mix of being accommodating enough that the viewer can project to Shinji's relationship with her while having enough hard edges ("I am not a doll.") that she doesn't feel like she's there for the viewer. Like most of the cast, Rei feels like a person, but her issues feel less miserable to be around. If she doesn't like you, she'll just ignore you and keep reading her book. (Not to say Asuka was left without a legacy. The modern tsundere can be pretty clearly traced back to her.)
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Mar 13, 2021 00:21
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chiasaur11 posted:Rei's one of the most beloved anime characters in general, to the point that most harem anime include a character referencing her as a matter of course. It's uncanny, sometimes 
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Mar 13, 2021 00:44
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I understand why Eva is good but what was it that just stuck so hard with Japan?
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Mar 13, 2021 01:02
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Invalid Validation posted:I understand why Eva is good but what was it that just stuck so hard with Japan? Popular female archetypes, probably Hence, as was pointed out, every harem has an Asuka (abusive, lead interest), Misato (flirty alcoholic), and Rei (exists) among its ranks
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Mar 13, 2021 01:28
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Invalid Validation posted:I understand why Eva is good but what was it that just stuck so hard with Japan? Well, being good helped. It aired during prime time, so it had a large potential audience, it has compelling characters with distinctive designs, so there was an easy hook, and the merch game was on point, which combined with the controversy around the endings to lock it into the public consciousness. I also suspect (as a foreigner with limited information) that the state of mech anime when it arrived played a part. Gundam had drifted back towards Super Robot archetypes with G, Wing, and X all playing more like the old shows than like the war stories that sprung up in Gundam's original wake. It made Eva's spin on Supers stand out more.
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Mar 13, 2021 01:44
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I could be talking out my rear end on this but did it also kind of start the subgenre of existentialist mecha shows? Certainly felt like more shows started doing introspection and weird sharp tonal shifts after it aired. Sadly, like the harems that riff off the archetypes in Eva, these shows often take the surface level view of things and don't strike at the meanings behind it. That's not to say Eva doesn't get pretentious a lot of the time (because all that judeo Christian iconography in the visual design and the classical music makes me roll my eyes,) but the underlying script and thematic elements are solid as a rock.
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Mar 13, 2021 02:01
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Eva's use of Ode to Joy is on point
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Mar 13, 2021 02:05
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