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exmachina posted:Stay with me here, but the USA is not the only country in the world patience, buddy, we're working on it
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Mar 16, 2021 22:03
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exmachina posted:Stay with me here, but the USA is not the only country in the world !?
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Mar 16, 2021 22:05
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looking at a package of cheapass paper masks that are what I use because I am a dirty poor "DESIGNED IN THE USA" "DISTRIBUTED BY SHITASS COMPANY, NJ"
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Mar 16, 2021 22:09
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i still find it weird trump made such a big deal about not wearing masks when it was the perfect thing to start grifting his supporters with new shoddy merchandise
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Mar 16, 2021 22:10
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Its because it would mess up his makeup, and he'd look worse in his own perception, that's literally it
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Mar 16, 2021 22:13
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Jose posted:i still find it weird trump made such a big deal about not wearing masks when it was the perfect thing to start grifting his supporters with new shoddy merchandise even now, you still think he ever did anything for smart person reasons, lmao ex post facho posted:Its because it would mess up his makeup, and he'd look worse in his own perception, that's literally it yep. so many deaths directly attributable to trump not wanting to smear is pretty orange makeup.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:13
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ex post facho posted:Its because it would mess up his makeup, and he'd look worse in his own perception, that's literally it strong daddy can't look weak
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Mar 16, 2021 22:14
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ex post facho posted:Its because it would mess up his makeup, and he'd look worse in his own perception, that's literally it he could've made jr promote them
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Mar 16, 2021 22:16
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the vast divide between how trump sees himself, and how he actually looks
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Mar 16, 2021 22:18
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Flesh Forge posted:the vast divide between how trump sees himself, and how he actually looks when you can breath without difficulty
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Mar 16, 2021 22:21
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I'm still surprised he survived the supersteroid, let alone go and make a show of catching corona before then
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Mar 16, 2021 23:56
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Flesh Forge posted:looking at a package of cheapass paper masks that are what I use because I am a dirty poor designed in the USA means it was manufactured somewhere else thank god that American designer figured out how to tie a string to a piece of paper though, nobody else in the world could figure that one out
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Mar 17, 2021 00:23
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:we were producing a shitload of disposable hospital supplies like masks and syringes and gloves in puerto rico right up until 2017 lmao wonder what happened huh
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Mar 17, 2021 00:54
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christmas boots posted:Isn't "die on this hill" kind of ablelist too? able to die
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Mar 17, 2021 01:54
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Pirate Radar posted:able to die necromancer-phobic
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Mar 17, 2021 02:35
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Kitfox88 posted:lmao wonder what happened huh heard they had some trouble keeping the lights on that summer, idk
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Mar 17, 2021 03:36
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Flesh Forge posted:looking at a package of cheapass paper masks that are what I use because I am a dirty poor those two things literally mean 'we outsourced manufacturing' that's exactly why they say everything BUT 'made in the USA'.
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Mar 17, 2021 03:39
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that's what I said, yes
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Mar 17, 2021 03:46
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exmachina posted:Isn't it well established that orgs like the CDC didn't want a run on masks while the medical field was still trying to secure stocks for their own use? I'm pretty sure that's what was happening here in NZ where the message stayed that masks were not necessary until at least June. a couple of things I want to clear up about this: * even if we were to grant that the authorities didn't want private citizens buying up all the masks in order to leave stock up for hospitals and health workers, they didn't say that that was the reason for telling people not to buy masks * mask procurement/production never actually scaled up - hospitals were STILL making do with surgical masks or a single N95 per month long after the pandemic had set in. Meanwhile the authorities were still telling people to make do with cloth masks made on etsy. They told people to not buy masks so that hospitals could get them, but they lied about the reason why... and then the hospitals still didn't get enough anyway! * the American CDC as of today is still issuing advisories telling people to not wear N95s, and for reasons of potential difficulty in breathing, which again is wrong * while it might be technically true that cloth and surgical masks are not-as-effective at protecting the wearer, the point of encouraging mask-wearing is for everyone to wear a mask, and that will therefore confer collective protection on everyone by making sure that everyone is protecting each other from everyone else. For this to work, everyone has to wear a mask. You're not going to be able to do that if you tell people that masks don't work, or that masks aren't good at protecting you and might encourage you to engage in riskier behavior the pandemic could have been severely curbed, if not stopped, if the government was willing to throw N95s at everyone. Hell, they should still be doing that right now! Trump didn't want to do that, and Biden doesn't want to do that either. Oops.
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Mar 17, 2021 03:48
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the CDC's guide to masks still contains this guideline "DO NOT choose masks that are intended for healthcare workers, including N95 respirators" A bit better than what it was earlier this year:  bedpan has issued a correction as of 03:53 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 03:51
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exmachina posted:Isn't it well established that orgs like the CDC didn't want a run on masks while the medical field was still trying to secure stocks for their own use? I'm pretty sure that's what was happening here in NZ where the message stayed that masks were not necessary until at least June. while nz also followed who guidance, iirc the framing was different in the u.s. – ashley consistently said they weren't recommending them because evidence was mixed (until it wasn't), while fauci essentially recommended not wearing them. imo the amerikan discourse ended up centring on masks to a ridiculous degree, probably because effective public health interventions were basically off the table.
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Mar 17, 2021 06:22
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exmarx posted:while nz also followed who guidance, iirc the framing was different in the u.s. – ashley consistently said they weren't recommending them because evidence was mixed (until it wasn't), while fauci essentially recommended not wearing them. The evidence is still “mixed”, but authorities cannot admit that because they choose to die on the hill of cloth and surgical masks. That Danish mask study isn’t bad science. What it says is that surgical masks do not do much to protect the wearer. This should have come as no surprise to any “expert”. Particulate-rated masks of P2 or equivalent (or better) are necessary to block incoming ærosols.
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Mar 17, 2021 07:38
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Platystemon posted:surgical masks do not do much to protect the wearer. what the gently caress this is like all I’ve been using. what’s a better option for a beard man
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Mar 17, 2021 07:46
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Platystemon posted:The evidence is still “mixed”, but authorities cannot admit that because they choose to die on the hill of cloth and surgical masks. earlier on, the mixed evidence was around preventing spread vs spreading it worse (because wearing a mask makes you touch your face more etc). here at least, it was eventually framed as a "wear a face covering in case you have covid" collective action thing. indigi posted:what the gently caress this is like all I’ve been using. what’s a better option for a beard man n95 (or equivalent) masks are effective at stopping the virus from getting in, but they need to be fitted properly – don't think you can with a beard. exmarx has issued a correction as of 07:54 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 07:50
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it's pretty widely accepted as far as I've read that even the disposable lovely masks are better than literally nothing at all though. from what I understand it's more about keeping viruses inside of carriers (who usually won't know they're infected) than it is about keeping them out of uninfected. e: shaving your beard is probably a good idea in any case Flesh Forge has issued a correction as of 08:51 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 08:46
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exmarx posted:earlier on, the mixed evidence was around preventing spread vs spreading it worse (because wearing a mask makes you touch your face more etc). here at least, it was eventually framed as a "wear a face covering in case you have covid" collective action thing. I put “mixed” in quotes because as the word was used there, it was a different kind of mixed from initially, but was it ever really the initial kind of mixed? Was there ever any evidence that masks were actively harmful, not just “we don’t know and I, the Surgeon General, have pet theories about face‐touching”? indigi posted:what the gently caress this is like all I’ve been using. what’s a better option for a beard man It keeps happening! It is criminal that the authorities have allowed, nay, encouraged you to believe that you were going about safely. Here’s documentation of the virus infecting through surgical masks that were worn correctly by both parties, and with eye protection. Yeah, it’s in a healthcare setting, but the patients were asymptomatic and masked. It doesn’t get much closer to a grocery store, and we’re not studying grocery stores.  The two real solutions to the beard are to shave anywhere the respirator contacts the face or get a PAPR, which I will illustrate with this image from early in the pandemic:  Yeah, industrial users love them, and they’re compatible with beards, but it’s not a great option for most individuals. Now, because I’m not your boss and I can’t make you follow occupational safety standards or get out, I will say that elastomeric respirators can make a much better seal over a short beard than any disposable mask ever will. It’s not OSHA compliant, and it will let some particles in, but if you refuse to shave yet are willing to wear an industrial respirator, you should. They cost like thirty bucks, filters included, and they last years. It’s possible to improve the over‐beard seal with silicone grease, and I have known people who get by with this because they’re desperate to keep the beard and OSHA never inspects them, but it’s messy. Envo Mask is a lower‐profile respirator, small enough to fit under a surgical mask, if that appeals to you. I’ve never used one, but they’re the only things some goons will wear. There is no perfect option. Everything is an annoyance and/or will make you look silly. tl;dr: shave the beard and get KN95s Platystemon has issued a correction as of 09:16 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 09:02
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As for eye protection, that’s a greater unknown. Official recommendations sound something like this:quote:The eyes, mouth, and nose all contain mucosal surfaces that are potential routes of acquisition of SARS-CoV-2 due to the presence of the ACE2 receptor (the receptor that SARS-CoV-2 uses to enter the body). In healthcare settings, where reliable physical distancing may not be possible and workers may be exposed to individuals with SARS-CoV-2 infection, including those who are asymptomatic or presymptomatic, CDC recommends the use of eye protection such as face shields during patient care encounters. There’s this study where contact tracers kept getting infected. Face shields were issued and infections ceased. There have been a number of studies that people who wear eyeglasses are less likely to be infected, for whatever reason, but the eyeglasses sure are a good guess. Even Fauci was suggesting eye protection in July. I wear Bollé sport goggles, but you do you. Face shield, sunglasses, chem lab goggles—anything is better than nothing.
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Mar 17, 2021 09:15
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exmarx posted:earlier on, the mixed evidence was around preventing spread vs spreading it worse (because wearing a mask makes you touch your face more etc). here at least, it was eventually framed as a "wear a face covering in case you have covid" collective action thing. Ever wonder how many more people could be alive if the government said masks protect you?
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Mar 17, 2021 09:19
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Platystemon posted:Was there ever any evidence that masks were actively harmful, not just “we don’t know and I, the Surgeon General, have pet theories about face‐touching”? it's what the who was saying in the first half of 2020, yeah mawarannahr posted:Ever wonder how many more people could be alive if the government said masks protect you? 26 people have died here, so it worked okay 👍 i'm not sure how ethical it would have been to claim that wearing a mask is really effective at stopping you getting covid? seems like it'd lull people into a false sense of security.
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Mar 17, 2021 09:50
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mawarannahr posted:Ever wonder how many more people could be alive if the government said masks protect you? later on I imagine there will be studies of how many people died of COVID due to stupid culture war poo poo and nationalist arrogance
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Mar 17, 2021 09:54
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Playing four‐dimensional chess with public health messaging doesn’t work. If CDC said “masks protect you, gently caress everyone else”, CHUDs can take their pick of the ideas rattling around in their head to counter it. “Actually, masks are hurting you by depriving you of oxygen, giving you skin infections, emotionally crippling your children, and they cause you to touch your face and transfer the virus, which is simultaneously just the flu, a wicked Chinese bioweapon, and nonexistent”. Maybe they would even go back to being the worst person you know with a good point. Skip to 1:06. https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1317259993633247232 When Tucker loving Carlson is right, something is very wrong.
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Mar 17, 2021 09:56
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carlson's personal body count has got to be up in the tens of thousands by now.
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Mar 17, 2021 10:13
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So the dude who shot the spas up apparently posted poo poo about China lying about covid and blah blah blah so it does sadly seem to be anti-asian hate behind this. The reason I post here is every single Chinese or Asian voice I've seen online going 'and this is why I'm genuinely worried about poo poo like the bipartisan assault on China and Biden taking a hardline stance just to show he's tough and all' have been met with 'ah but TRUMP called it 'china virus' so this is HIS fault actually'. So, ya know, get ready for that.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:16
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Platystemon posted:It keeps happening! god drat why are PAPRs so expensive
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Mar 17, 2021 14:24
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Meanwhile in Vietnam, a poor country with a population of 96,5 million: Total covid infections: 2560 Total covid deaths: 35
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Mar 17, 2021 15:19
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sexpig by night posted:So the dude who shot the spas up apparently posted poo poo about China lying about covid and blah blah blah so it does sadly seem to be anti-asian hate behind this. I don't see how things can get better at this point. Honestly I think it's just a matter of time before they start shooting people for wearing glasses and knowing how to read.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:26
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Platystemon posted:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/17/fact-check-ex-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-reversed-position-masks/6765301002/ This is lovely if you read it as covering for Jerome Adams, but it's fine if you read it as pushing back against anti-maskers.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:50
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Orange Devil posted:Meanwhile in Vietnam, a poor country with a population of 96,5 million: if you go to the cali thread in d&d (disclaimer: this post is not advocating self-harm) you'll learn that one of the wealthiest states in the world is actually powerless to do anything against covid without control of the magical money printing presses
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Mar 17, 2021 21:00
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mawarannahr posted:Ever wonder how many more people could be alive if the government said masks protect you? The key to NZ's effective covid response imo is the high level of care for other people. Orange Devil posted:Meanwhile in Vietnam, a poor country with a population of 96,5 million: Especially considering I understand they have pretty porous borders, as opposed to say Sweden which has like a dozen roads going into it.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:34
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Jose posted:i still find it weird trump made such a big deal about not wearing masks when it was the perfect thing to start grifting his supporters with new shoddy merchandise The timeline's a little muddy but I think chuds started freaking out about masks being BIG GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE way early and wherever the conspiracy theorist boomer gestalt goest, so goes Trump
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Mar 17, 2021 23:41
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