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Kalit posted:I doubt a successful appeals will happen and there is a near 0% chance of a new jury trial actually occurring. The judge dismissed all objections along these lines, of course that could also be because the judge wanted to continue course and wanted to punt everything to appeals to sort through later. From what I can tell, this is his legal team covering their asses. There's no argument left when they get a ruling back from the court of "After checking all 13 complaints, he's still going to jail". If they didn't appeal, then in a couple of years he might be able to argue "Well, my defense at the time didn't REALLY defend me that well, so I want a retrial on those grounds." and start the whole shitshow up again.
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# ? May 5, 2021 17:08 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:33 |
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Relentless posted:From what I can tell, this is his legal team covering their asses. There's no argument left when they get a ruling back from the court of "After checking all 13 complaints, he's still going to jail". If they didn't appeal, then in a couple of years he might be able to argue "Well, my defense at the time didn't REALLY defend me that well, so I want a retrial on those grounds." and start the whole shitshow up again. Sorta. It's likely not so much rear end-covering in a direct sense as it is what's called "preservation of error." In short, if you didn't object to a matter when it first comes up (or if you fail to get a clear ruling from the judge and just kind of roll with it) you usually can't raise that matter on appeal. So, if you have arguments you want to make on appeal (or at least want to ensure that you will have that opportunity) you need raise the matter when the opportunity comes up under the applicable rules of procedure. Lawyers will frequently make pro forma objections or file motions they know the trial judge will deny just to get the denial on the record and preserve their client's appeal rights. As long as what the objection or motion is non-frivolous, this is just an accepted part of being a competent trial lawyer. EDIT: And sometimes judge's will "appeal-proof" their overall rulings by granting motions or sustaining objections from the losing side that don't really change the overall outcome of the case, just so they have fewer avenues for appeal. Aegis fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 5, 2021 |
# ? May 5, 2021 17:39 |
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Aegis posted:Sorta. It's likely not so much rear end-covering in a direct sense as it is what's called "preservation of error." In short, if you didn't object to a matter when it first comes up (or if you fail to get a clear ruling from the judge and just kind of roll with it) you usually can't raise that matter on appeal. So, if you have arguments you want to make on appeal (or at least want to ensure that you will have that opportunity) you need raise the matter when the opportunity comes up under the applicable rules of procedure. All I'm reading is "Lawyers and judges have an entire rulebook about rear end-covering.".
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# ? May 5, 2021 17:59 |
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Relentless posted:All I'm reading is "Lawyers and judges have an entire rulebook about rear end-covering.". Multiple rulebooks; and whole classes taught from them.
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# ? May 5, 2021 18:16 |
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cr0y posted:This fell off my radar after the verdict dropped, do we think a new trial is realistic? no. chauvin's age means he will probably die in prison so there's no reason not to do this and his lawyer has extra hours he can extract from his bottomless gofundme pit so there's no reason not to do this. Chauvin's buying his attorney a new boat; there's no appeal, filing or manuever that his lawyer will try to dissuade him from short of those risking disbarrment
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# ? May 6, 2021 04:16 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:no. chauvin's age means he will probably die in prison so there's no reason not to do this and his lawyer has extra hours he can extract from his bottomless gofundme pit so there's no reason not to do this. it also sounds like the feds are gonna indicte him of civil rights violations and poo poo after he is senstenced. chauvin is hosed. his shot was getting acquitted and now that's gone.
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# ? May 6, 2021 05:44 |
Hey speaking of Chauvin dying in prison, when is the sentencing scheduled for? I can't seem to find that info.
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# ? May 7, 2021 18:39 |
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mdemone posted:Hey speaking of Chauvin dying in prison, when is the sentencing scheduled for? I can't seem to find that info. June 25th, pushed back from its original scheduled date of June 16th (due to a scheduling conflict): https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/04/27/derek-chauvins-sentencing-rescheduled-for-june-25/
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# ? May 7, 2021 18:42 |
Nice, thank you. That's pleasantly soon.
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# ? May 7, 2021 18:43 |
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The state has asked for 30 years. The defense has asked for time served. https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-...ge-floyd-murder
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 12:32 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:The state has asked for 30 years. The defense has asked for time served. So the state has a week reasoned 20+ page argument for why 30 years is the appropriate sentence. Is the defenses' argument publicly available? Cuz I'm willing to bet it's dog poo poo.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 14:47 |
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What if instead he got death by suffocation, like George Floyd would have been sentenced to if the situation was reversed
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 14:51 |
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Leon Sumbitches posted:So the state has a week reasoned 20+ page argument for why 30 years is the appropriate sentence. Cops, you see, are in danger. quote:Mr. Chauvin is forty-five (45) years old now as he stands before the Court. At the time of the offense conduct, he was forty-four (44) years old, living with his wife. Mr.Chauvin’s age weighs in his favor when determining a sentence. The life expectancy of police officers is generally shorter, and police officers have a significantly higher average probability of death from specific diseases than did males in the general population. Mr. Chauvin is now forty-four years old and is nearing the healthier years of his life. He has been preliminarily diagnosed with heart damage and may likely die at a younger age like many ex-law enforcement officers. If their own fatfuckery doesn't get to them, prisoners surely will: quote:Independent of the long-term damage a prison sentence would inflict upon Mr. Chauvin’s life prospects, given his age, convictions for officer-involved offenses significantly increase the likelihood of him becoming a target in prison Mockery of the fucker aside, I do find Nelson's argument on the presence of children as an aggravating factor somewhat compelling - intent and application has generally been for adults who've brought children along with them while criming and/or for criming from the home, citing one exception when it was used to enhance a sentence for firing a gun in a park full of children. I don't know that I'm comfortable with the prosecutors and courts deciding that committing a crime when anyone under the age of 18 is walking down the street and glances at it enables harsher sentencing. In this case, given the facts and the nature of Chauvin's crime, I think it's entirely appropriate. But I can also see the same slippery slope that leads to wildly overharsh sentencing for possession or weapons charges in school zone.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 15:51 |
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quote:Mr. Chauvin is forty-five (45) years old now Three sentences later posted:Mr. Chauvin is now forty-four years old
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 16:17 |
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oldskool posted:At this rate Chauvin will be in juvi by lunch. The cops still can't get their story straight!
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 16:24 |
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quote:officer-involved offenses He murdered a man while wearing a badge.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 16:42 |
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"Your honor, my clients should not receive a prison sentence for killing a man because going to prison would make him sad, and is unpleasant."
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 18:44 |
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PT6A posted:"Your honor, my clients should not receive a prison sentence for killing a man because going to prison would make him sad, and is unpleasant." loving works sometimes, doesn't it. like that kid who got off for raping a woman because being punished would adversely affect his whole life.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 19:30 |
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HopperUK posted:loving works sometimes, doesn't it. like that kid who got off for raping a woman because being punished would adversely affect his whole life. That was also a miscarriage of justice, but that argument works a lot better with a 21-year-old rather than a middle-aged cop who was entrusted to use deadly force in service of maintaining law and order, and then killed a man.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 20:14 |
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PT6A posted:That was also a miscarriage of justice, but that argument works a lot better with a 21-year-old rather than a middle-aged cop who was entrusted to use deadly force in service of maintaining law and order, and then killed a man. Not really because society is even more OK with cops killing minorities than it is with men raping women, which it is also very very OK with
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 20:21 |
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PT6A posted:That was also a miscarriage of justice, but that argument works a lot better with a 21-year-old rather than a middle-aged cop who was entrusted to use deadly force in service of maintaining law and order, and then killed a man. It actually doesn't work at all in either case. Punishment is supposed to be loving unpleasant. I'm like really against our carceral state, but violent criminals like rapists and murderers are the ones who probably do deserve jail time and the argument that "jail sucks" doesn't fly here.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 20:44 |
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LeeMajors posted:It actually doesn't work at all in either case. It doesn't 'work' like it's acceptable, it 'works' like, sometimes judges go easy for those reasons. Nobody here is approving of it. I think Brock Turner was the example I was thinking of but I haven't revisited that so I could be incorrect.
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 22:25 |
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Defense is allowed to ask for any sentencing they want, might as well try to shoot the moon with "well, he's been in prison for like a month, that's enough, right?"
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# ? Jun 5, 2021 01:52 |
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Jaxyon posted:Not really because society is even more OK with cops killing minorities than it is with men raping women, which it is also very very OK with Let me be clear: excessive leniency isn't warranted in either case. But, that being said, if you had two people who committed equally heinous crimes, and one was a 21-year-old halfwit and the other was a 44-year-old police officer, I'd have significantly more sympathy for the 21-year-old halfwit. If you're looking at someone around the age of 20 who has committed a serious crime, you should probably be thinking "okay, what can we do to fix this person so they can become a productive member of society?" Brock Turner was shown leniency that most other people convicted of similar crimes at that age are not, and probably too much leniency at that, but the reasoning isn't inherently unsound if applied equally and reasonably. Years in the single digits, as a sentence, would've been quite reasonable, and any more than that... probably too much to be just. With a middle-aged cop, I don't think you can make that same argument. He murdered a person, as a cop, and with much more life and job experience, and I don't give a single flying gently caress if he dies of old age in prison.
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# ? Jun 5, 2021 03:20 |
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PT6A posted:Brock Turner was shown leniency that most other people convicted of similar crimes at that age are not, and probably too much leniency at that, but the reasoning isn't inherently unsound if applied equally and reasonably. An interesting fact about the Brock Turner case is that the judge was arguably doing just that.
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# ? Jun 5, 2021 15:01 |
raminasi posted:An interesting fact about the Brock Turner case is that the judge was arguably doing just that. Kinda makes me feel better to know that the judge in that case is just a big ol' softie who doesn't really seem interested in sending people to prison. At least his sentencing of Turner was in character and in keeping with his past decisions.
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# ? Jun 5, 2021 17:37 |
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mdemone posted:Kinda makes me feel better to know that the judge in that case is just a big ol' softie who doesn't really seem interested in sending people to prison. At least his sentencing of Turner was in character and in keeping with his past decisions. Yeah. That one is tough because Turner is a massive piece of poo poo… but our prison system doesn’t make massive pieces of poo poo any better, it just inflicts more trauma and returns an even more damaged person back to society. There are better ways to serve justice.
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# ? Jun 5, 2021 18:04 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCdlcTCgdF4 It seems that now police officers are actually having to take into account they are being held responsible for incidents and seem like they are mad they have to justify themselves, although this case, like Ma'Khia Bryant, shows that even still, when it’s a fairly yet justified shooting, the body cams are the tell all. That rage and justification is now being pointed at and passed to the agencies that are letting these kids down by cops. A tiny bit of me hopes this will therefore eventually lead to some scrutiny and understanding how underfunded all these social programs are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEAPNQLIDTs willie_dee fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jun 6, 2021 |
# ? Jun 6, 2021 09:01 |
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Would you care to explain how the gently caress this relates to the trial of Derek Chauvin and is any way on topic for the thread? Or are you just here to lie about Ma'Khia's killing again and over the tragic necessity of state murder? Because I regret to inform you that neither is ontopic for this thread. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jun 6, 2021 16:26 |
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In further Chauvin trial news, another juror has given an interview. Chalk up more credit to Tobin, and futher evidence that a crumbling thin blue line has substantial impact. quote:Howard, of Minneapolis, said she was especially swayed by the detailed testimony of Dr. Martin Tobin, the lung specialist who bolstered the prosecution's contention that Floyd died from asphyxiation as a direct result of being pinned facedown on the pavement at 38th and Chicago on May 25, 2020, for more than 9 minutes by Chauvin and two other officers. Found the defense case unimpactful but only called out the carbon monoxide as noteworthily bad. Also, Nelson's antics that were clearly not targeted at her did him no favors quote:Howard, who identified herself during the jury selection process as biracial and is the daughter of a white mother and a Black father, said she like didn't like how Nelson was so confrontational with prosecution witness Donald Williams III, another of the witnesses who stood within feet of Chauvin and Floyd. Nelson drew criticism for appearing to portray Williams as an angry Black man whose foul language and tone created a threatening atmosphere for the officers. RE Chauvin's silence: quote:Chauvin's choice to exercise his constitutional right and not testify on his own behalf had little effect, Howard said. Quick verdict was a surprise to jurors as well. quote:Deliberations after more than three weeks of testimony lasted just a few hours spanning two days before the unanimous verdicts were reached — a brief amount of time that "came as a shock to all of us" on the jury, Howard said Thursday. She pointed out that she and the other sequestered jurors had enough clothing packed to last several weeks.
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# ? Jun 10, 2021 22:09 |
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Really seems like one of those bits where people realise they'd been come to expect to have to defer to a majority that does not in fact exist.
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# ? Jun 11, 2021 07:25 |
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https://twitter.com/jelani9/status/1403404812423675904?s=21 This is great.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 12:49 |
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Sentencing complete, 22.5 years total Sentencing guidelines have nominal sentence for the 2nd & 3rd degree murder convictions of 12.5 years, with judge having discretion to go from 10-15 years, so it's non-consecutive sentences Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jun 25, 2021 |
# ? Jun 25, 2021 21:09 |
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We'll see if the Feds follow up with the Federal charges.
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# ? Jun 25, 2021 21:15 |
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that’ll do pig, that’ll do
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# ? Jun 25, 2021 21:39 |
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Sentancing justification Increase from presumptive sentencing guidelines because trial proved four possible aggravating factors beyond a reasonable doubt: "(i) That Mr. Chauvin abused a position of trust and authority; (ii) That Mr. Chauvin treated George Floyd with particular cruelty; (iii) That children were present during the commission of the offense; and (iv) That Mr. Chauvin committed the crime as a group with the active participation of three other individuals, former Minneapolis Police Officers Thou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng, who all actively participated with Mr. Chauvin in the crime in various ways." Fifth aggravating factor state argued for (George Floyd was particularly vulnerable) not proved beyond a reasonable doubt. (Section I) Chauvin's arguments for downward departure from sentencing guidelines rejected because: - "there has been no persuasive showing that Mr. Chauvin is particularly amenable to probation" - "a probationary sentence would be disproportionate and understate the severity of Mr. Chauvin's offense" For each aggravating factor, court may apply an upward departure from sentencing guidelines when there is a substantial & compelling reason. Of the 4 proved factors, abuse of authority & trust (Section II) and particular cruelty justify (Section III) each justify upward sentencing departures. Children present (Section IV) do not. The group factor (Section V) is messy because Minnesota Sentencing Guidelines got amended weirdly a persons->offenders change in one section and it hasn't been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the others count as offenders. Court bases its sentencing decision on the first two factors only.
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# ? Jun 25, 2021 23:52 |
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Foxfire_ posted:
Can the prosecution of those other officers point to this, or would that not be allowed?
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# ? Jun 26, 2021 05:07 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:Can the prosecution of those other officers point to this, or would that not be allowed? No. A separate jury will have to decide whether they were accomplices.
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# ? Jun 27, 2021 15:20 |
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In pretty big news, the Minnesota Court of Appeals has ruled that the other officers can also be charged with third degree murderquote:Adding third-degree murder to the cases would likely increase the probability of a conviction against some of the defendants, said Joseph Daly, an emeritus professor at Mitchell Hamline School of Law.
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# ? Jul 2, 2021 01:54 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:33 |
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The other cops beside chauvin don’t get a lot of visibility for their trials.
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# ? Oct 18, 2022 04:28 |