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latinotwink1997 posted:Ah well, I tried. I liked the concept of Aran’gar as another errant force like Slayer that no one really knows about, but as people have mentioned not inherently necessary for the story. Agreed, I like Arangar as a concept. That said, I think there are other ways to show that weird stuff shows up that doesn't play by the Pattern's rules that doesn't rely on or exacerbate transphobia. I don't think it was anything malicious on RJ's part and I like to think that if he was still alive maybe he'd have written something to clarify the whole situation that didn't leave it so open to being interpreted as aligned with open bigotry. But he's not, trying to stick the landing on adapting Arangar into the series will be very hard to pull off, and there are plenty of other options - flip the gender of the one of the male Forsaken to be female, have the reincarnated Forsaken be in the gender appropriate bodies but their weaves are "invisible" because of the DO, etc. Ultimately this isn't one of those things that will make or break the series, if it even makes it that far into the storyline.
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May 16, 2021 02:27
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There’s no reason a guy couldn’t just illusion themselves a woman. There weren’t any Sadin dudes to see them using ~The Power~.
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May 16, 2021 02:48
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The whole plot point is dumb. It happens after Jordan has explicitly shown both the capability to totally mask the ability to channel/whether you're holding the source, as well as inverting weaves to make them invisible to anyone but their creator. It doesn't need to exist.
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May 16, 2021 03:37
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It probably won’t ever get there but I wanna really wanna see Demandred in coin armor yelling for Rand to show his stupid face. There’s some very bad fanart of this (why does it all have to be so badddddd?)
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May 16, 2021 04:17
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does the old fps game for wheel of time count as fanart, too. it sure seems like it.
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May 16, 2021 04:22
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Invalid Validation posted:It probably won’t ever get there but I wanna really wanna see Demandred in coin armor yelling for Rand to show his stupid face. There’s some very bad fanart of this (why does it all have to be so badddddd?) Hell yeah. Demandred screaming across the battlefield FACE ME LEWS THERIN over and over, everyone at the battlefield going "jesus dude would you let it rest?" A parade of challengers faces Demandred and falls as he insists LEWS THERIN YOU ARE A COWARD FOR SENDING THESE WEAKLINGS. Rand is barely aware as he contests Shaitan directly. Enter: Lan. Lan posted:You didn't listen to me.
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May 16, 2021 04:41
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The best part of that whole exchange is Lan's internal monologue saying 'I'm not gonna beat him in a stand up fight BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING A WAR FOR ABOUT A MONTH NOW'
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May 16, 2021 07:00
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:The best part of that whole exchange is Lan's internal monologue saying 'I'm not gonna beat him in a stand up fight BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING A WAR FOR ABOUT A MONTH NOW' As March 2020 continues to drag on, I feel Lan had a point.
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May 16, 2021 13:41
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lan / demandred fight needed more cheesy one liners
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May 16, 2021 14:16
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Mat Cauthon posted:Agreed, I like Arangar as a concept. That said, I think there are other ways to show that weird stuff shows up that doesn't play by the Pattern's rules that doesn't rely on or exacerbate transphobia. It all comes to the power being tied to gender essentialism. The only way to fix things about transgenerism is to decouple gender from which power is used - maybe let aggressive people use saidin, compliant people use saidar regardless of sex - but then if it's not tied to gender then there's no way to have a secret double agent infiltrator be a surprise just by looks. Invalid Validation posted:There’s no reason a guy couldn’t just illusion themselves a woman. There weren’t any Sadin dudes to see them using ~The Power~. This is basically the only non-lovely way to keep it - there's a male channeling infiltrator because only they cause that pain, but only women are around ... someone is disguised (but not actually trans). Unless you add tons of trans characters and only one of them is a bad guy.
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May 16, 2021 14:38
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Yeah I'm not sure a male villain masquerading as a woman so he can creep on people in their private spaces is really a good look either. Would much prefer they just left that whole thing out. On the plus side though, if they even get far enough to have to address the issue that means we'll have gotten at least a couple season of show!
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May 16, 2021 20:25
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I'd still be amazed if we even got to the point where Aran'gar would make an appearance, if they don't cancel the show before that it would be quite the success. That said, just leave that particular plot point out. As others have said, it's not really important in the grand scheme of things, and the one thing that was important (freeing Moghedien) can be done by some other darkfriend, or by Shaidar Haran. This particular plot is not salvageable, period.
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May 16, 2021 20:30
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Inspector 34 posted:Yeah I'm not sure a male villain masquerading as a woman so he can creep on people in their private spaces is really a good look either. At least it would be consistent with this behavior being villainous, and being done by an objectively bad person.
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May 17, 2021 04:13
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For sure, but it's also a narrative used to discriminate against trans people, which is more what I was trying to imply. From the "not really a woman" part right to "they just want to peek at young ladies in the bathroom". Not really something we need in our entertainment media.
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May 17, 2021 06:45
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Inspector 34 posted:For sure, but it's also a narrative used to discriminate against trans people, which is more what I was trying to imply. From the "not really a woman" part right to "they just want to peek at young ladies in the bathroom". Not really something we need in our entertainment media. There's also some weird autogynaphilia stuff going on with it, where they are really into being a sexy woman and yeah it's basically like every transphobic trope when you consider the gender essentialism of the source as well. Which is still something that is just awkward these days but is genuinely fundamental to the setting as is. You can't have women accessing Saidin because then you have to deal with the taint and all that. Well...i guess you could say that it is possible they just didn't understand how to until after its cleansed and you have someone learn it like how Nynaeve learned to heal stilling and the madness. Why not? Let everything be permitted.
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May 17, 2021 10:40
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Idk, it doesn't seem like such an intractable problem to me. You decide if it's determined by sex or gender and go with that. If it's sex then the person channels whatever is appropriate based on what they were assigned at birth. Trans men channel Saidar, trans women channel Saidin. If you wanted to go real strong with the metaphor, you could have a gender confirmation weave, though such a thing would almost certainly be handled poorly and would best be left out. If it's gender then the person channels whatever is appropriate based on their gender. Trans men channel Saidin, trans women channel Saidar. Of significant importance would be that it doesn't change. Trans men aren't women who become men, they are men and they channel like other men do. Personally, I think the first would be better. You avoid having nerds trying to use channeling as a trans-detection power and there's no reason to think the True Source would be bound by social constructs. Regardless, what they for sure shouldn't do is have the entirety of the trans representation on the show be a single character that's a man who was put into a woman's body as a punishment, who then uses that woman's body to go unnoticed in women's spaces and spy on them. Like there's know way RJ could have known, but drat if that didn't age like milk. Honestly, given the strength of gender roles in the WoT in general, which power they channel would be the afterthought. In the story of an AMAB Aiel becoming a Wise One, whether they channel Saidin or Saidar is way less interesting than the conflict of people not wanting to properly ask them for leave to enter a hold.
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May 18, 2021 01:06
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I don't think the series will make it to arangar. If it does I'll be pleasantly surprised and hope they just cut it out.
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May 18, 2021 01:26
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I’m sure they will, most of the forsaken can be purged since they do nothing. More than likely they just combine a bunch of them.
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May 18, 2021 01:49
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There's so much money poured into this series and a second season ordered already. It would have to be a pretty big flop for them not to keep it going it feels like to me. Amazon is really trying for a hit with this series and it'd be embarrassing for any vp to admit fault and cancel the series.
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May 18, 2021 03:46
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Lets be honest, how they decide to handle trans representation and how it relates to channeling isn't going to make or break the show for the average viewer. It's probably not even a blip on the average viewers radar. Hopefully they just cut arangar for all the reasons mentioned upthread. Things that will matter to the average (non-book reader) viewer: Do the Dragon Ball Z magic fight scenes look awesome? y/n Tits? y/n Swords and gore? Did Lan chop a head off yet this scene? y/n Good acting, writing? y/n Is Bela the Creator? y/n (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 18, 2021 14:46
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Per earlier conversation (like maybe a year ago? year and a half?), on this point:th3t00t posted:Tits? y/n I strongly support equal sexualization of men and women. I don't think it's possible to tone down sexualization of women, so I support intense sexualization of all the male characters. Especially Rand. There are several points in the series that I think are best explained by "Rand is very good looking." (It's my explanation for his relationship with Elayne: they're both incredibly hot idiots who met when 17-19.) And by god, whoever they cast for Galad should make me question my own sexuality. Otherwise, it's poor casting.
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May 18, 2021 15:01
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i'm sure there's a spare Hemsworth brother to be galad right
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May 18, 2021 15:15
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Was it true that Robert Jordan only offered film rights to Wheel of Time with a "no male nudity" clause or was that just an urban legend I heard once?
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May 18, 2021 15:23
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Colonel Cool posted:Was it true that Robert Jordan only offered film rights to Wheel of Time with a "no male nudity" clause or was that just an urban legend I heard once? I've never heard that before. It would be pretty weird, especially since the current Wheel of Time negotiations were entirely with the estate -- the prior rights relapsed I believe (hence that whole weird rear end pilot that got aired).
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May 18, 2021 15:28
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One of the reasons superhero movies do so well in my circle is the frequent male beefcake. Thor, Cap, Batman, Supes, Aquaman. I don't know that Amazon would send the WoT cast through the 300 muscle process, though. I guess what I'm saying is, bring in Jason Momoa as Rhuarc and we're good. e: Affleck as Bael. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 15:59 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 18, 2021 15:53
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Savvy producers are going to have plenty of male chest and shoulders on display, and canonically mat is going to get to wear the most amazing outfits as the series progresses. I'm sure the crowd of folks who enjoy looking at beefcake will have plenty to appreciate.
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May 18, 2021 16:02
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I’m sure you’ll get a lot of pretty Canadian actors though!
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May 18, 2021 16:03
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Vavrek posted:Per earlier conversation (like maybe a year ago? year and a half?), on this point: I amend my earlier proposal: Tits? Lots of shots of the male characters well turned calves? y/n
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May 18, 2021 16:08
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RJ seems like he was a pretty horny guy so i reckon he'd be ok with a horny TV series. Give the people what they want!
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May 18, 2021 16:48
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e: this is not the brandon sanderson thread 
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May 18, 2021 16:50
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:e: Affleck as Bael. I change my mind. Affleck as Gareth Bryne.
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May 18, 2021 17:12
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:One of the reasons superhero movies do so well in my circle is the frequent male beefcake. Thor, Cap, Batman, Supes, Aquaman. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0063440/ I picture Galad as someone like Cole Sprause or Timothee Chalamet, but with a Brad Pitt in Fight Club level of muscle.
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May 18, 2021 19:02
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I've listened to the audiobooks so much it'll be jarring not to have everyone sound like Michael Kramer and Kate Reading.
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May 18, 2021 19:07
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:One of the reasons superhero movies do so well in my circle is the frequent male beefcake. Thor, Cap, Batman, Supes, Aquaman. You fool. Bale as Bael.
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May 18, 2021 19:07
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Pleads posted:I've listened to the audiobooks so much it'll be jarring not to have everyone sound like Michael Kramer and Kate Reading. Yeah...
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May 18, 2021 19:08
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:You fool. Bael is the tallest man anyone sees in Randland, so nah. Bring back Ian Whyte - he was too skinny for The Mountain but he'd make a good Aiel.
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May 18, 2021 19:19
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Yes, but then you miss out on the awkward silence when someone says "here, meet Bael" and he steps into frame.
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May 18, 2021 19:28
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Yes, but then you miss out on the awkward silence when someone says "here, meet Bael" and he steps into frame. Bale would probably walk around on stilts for a year to prepare for the role too. Ok, you've sold me.
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May 18, 2021 19:35
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I just want some good Forsaken actors. Ishamael, Graendal, and Demandred should be outright devouring the scenery in every scene. Maybe Jeremy Irons for Ishamael? edit: Apparently they wrapped filming for Season 1. TURTLE SLUT fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 18, 2021 21:08
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Mark Strong channelling his Lord Blackwood performance.
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May 18, 2021 21:12
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