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Vavrek posted:I think the only consistent description of Two Rivers folk that I remember is that, other than Kari and Rand al'Thor, nobody has blue or green eyes, or red hair, and no one is blonde. I mean, there's probably more there in the books if I read closely, but that's the stuff I remember and which I figure is vaguely plot-relevant. Yeah, there are several points in the books where someone sees Rand and straight up says "Holy poo poo it's an Aielman" before he knows what's going on. It's literally one of the first things Loial says to him. Plus the people who remember the Aiel war are usually put off by Rand at first, in part because they remember that hell time and he reminds them of it. You could change it, but for a relatively insulated society like they're supposed to be it makes sense that they'd have a similar look.
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May 19, 2021 17:28
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DarkHorse posted:The consistent description of Two Rivers folk is they're relatively dark-complected, there's still people from other regions around, and that nobody suspected Rand wasn't Tam's son Tam isn't from a different region. He's from Emond's Field and is never described as looking different from the other townsfolk. Kari Al'Thor is described as a red headed, grey eyed Andoran, that's why no one suspected Rand wasn't their child.
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May 19, 2021 17:55
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th3t00t posted:Two Rivers folk are described as dark of hair/eye and with a darker complexion than red heads. But that's true of any brown hair, brown eyed, white European. Andoran? I thought she was just called outlander. You n'wah!!!
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May 19, 2021 18:13
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silvergoose posted:Andoran? I thought she was just called outlander. The Wiki says she's Andoran, from Camelyn specifically.
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May 19, 2021 18:26
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silvergoose posted:Andoran? I thought she was just called outlander. In The Wheel of Time Companion (the great big glossary book, not the Big Book of Bad Art), she is "The daughter of an Andoran merchant from Caemlyn who ran a trading house in Illian." I get the impression that Tam may have just condensed this to "She's from Caemlyn" when explaining things after returning to the Two Rivers, perhaps to avoid explaining his military career in Illian. (But this is just my impression.) What's interesting to me are the dates. Tam and Kari met in 962 NE, and were married in 965 NE. (Her parents disowned her for marrying a soldier.  ) And then,quote:Kari accompanied Tam on the long campaigns during the Aiel War. They had two children, a girl who died of a fever in infancy and a boy who was stillborn, after which Kari could no longer have children. In late 978 NE, Tam found an infant on the slopes of Dragonmount and took him to Kari. Shortly after that, Tam resigned his commission and took Kari and baby Rand to the Two Rivers. Kari died of fever in 984 NE. So, the timeline of Tam's life: At age 16, Tam runs away from home, enlists in the army of Illian at age 17. Age 19, he joined the Companions. Age 22, he met Kari, and at 25 they're wed. "He became a blademaster in 966 NE." (Age 26.) And then it's just ten years of military service (fighting Tear, mostly) until the Aiel War (976-978 NE). Tam's 38 years old when he finds Rand. I don't think it ever occurred to me that Tam left home so young. I never quite knew where or how to fit in his service in the army of Illian, because other than being Second Captain of the Companions, all I knew about was the Aiel War. I never realized he'd been away from home for twenty years at that point. I guess it makes sense. If he'd stayed in the Two Rivers until he was 20, he'd have been married by that point. I just never worked to connect the dots.
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May 19, 2021 18:31
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Vavrek posted:So, the timeline of Tam's life: jeez that really drives home how Tam is more like a retired professional soldier pretending to be just a farmer, not a farmer that once did a little fighting
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May 19, 2021 18:49
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eke out posted:jeez that really drives home how Tam is more like a retired professional soldier pretending to be just a farmer, not a farmer that once did a little fighting Eh not *pretending*, but absolutely. He's considered eccentric for living out by himself in the westwood, he's basically the only person in the entire two rivers with professional military experience, and has no interest in anything other than a quiet life yet can leap back into being a professional soldier with a moment's notice.
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May 19, 2021 18:58
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I don’t remember did they ever say how Tam got the Heron branded sword? He earned it right?Cause that makes him a master swordsman which even a regular degular soldier wouldn’t have.
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May 19, 2021 19:00
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And it's not just any heron mark blade. It's an Aes Sedai forged blade, which means it's at least ~2000 years old. It is ridiculously valuable, not the kind of thing that gets handed out to any soldier that can pass his blademaster qualifications.
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May 19, 2021 19:05
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Vavrek posted:In The Wheel of Time Companion (the great big glossary book, not the Big Book of Bad Art), she is "The daughter of an Andoran merchant from Caemlyn who ran a trading house in Illian." I get the impression that Tam may have just condensed this to "She's from Caemlyn" when explaining things after returning to the Two Rivers, perhaps to avoid explaining his military career in Illian. (But this is just my impression.)
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May 19, 2021 19:09
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t remember did they ever say how Tam got the Heron branded sword? He earned it right?Cause that makes him a master swordsman which even a regular degular soldier wouldn’t have. I feel like he killed a man who had it, earning him the sword and title. I cant remember why I think this, maybe it was mentioned in the closing trilogy?
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May 19, 2021 19:21
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No, that's how galad got his. I thought tam was noted to have earned it via the blade masters voting to give him the title route.
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May 19, 2021 19:28
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I feel like he killed a man who had it, earning him the sword and title. That's one of the ways you can prove yourself a blademaster, according to one of the blademaster's internal thoughts during some duel. I don't recall if that's explicitly how Tam got his.
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May 19, 2021 19:28
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I’ll give Jordan credit, he didn’t just make Rand a blademaster immediately like most people would. He’s a loving bumbling idiot with it for a couple books at least.
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May 19, 2021 19:31
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I feel like he killed a man who had it, earning him the sword and title. He talks about it in TGS with Rand. Found this in the comments of this article: https://www.tor.com/2020/04/16/i-really-love-tam-al-thor-wheel-of-time/ quote:“I’m afraid I lost your sword,” Rand found himself saying. It felt foolish. EDIT: Found it - from a 1994 book signing: https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=25 aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 19:33
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That conversation is one of the best and worst in the entire series.
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May 19, 2021 19:47
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I just enjoy the contrast between Tam's conflicted feelings about becoming a bladmaster vs Thom casually stacking darkfriend bodies behind the hill till it's convenient to deal with them.
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May 19, 2021 20:01
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Anias posted:I just enjoy the contrast between Tam's conflicted feelings about becoming a bladmaster vs Thom casually stacking darkfriend bodies behind the hill till it's convenient to deal with them. While he composes an epic.
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May 19, 2021 20:04
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One Power users aside, Thom has gotta have one of the highest body counts in the series.
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May 19, 2021 20:08
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:One Power users aside, Thom has gotta have one of the highest body counts in the series. Ehhhhh depends who gets the blame for the cannons.
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May 19, 2021 20:09
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Mat. Mat gets the blame.
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May 19, 2021 20:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:One Power users aside, Thom has gotta have one of the highest body counts in the series. If you consider the secondary kills from the Cairhien civil war he sets off by whacking King Galldrien he gets into major channeller territory as well.
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May 19, 2021 20:11
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Blag, forgot about that.
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May 19, 2021 20:12
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jng2058 posted:If you consider the secondary kills from the Cairhien civil war he sets off by whacking King Galldrien he gets into major channeller territory as well. The line about him setting off with a savage grin on his face was really something.
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May 19, 2021 20:13
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Thom is Jaime Lannister. Except he revels in it, and he has killed a lot more than one.
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May 19, 2021 20:15
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th3t00t posted:In 1941 my Grandpa graduated high school and enlisted in the US army at 17 years old and fought in WWII. It only seems weird to us because "adulthood" has been pushed back so far for recent generations. Jordan almost certainly served in Vietnam with teenagers and probably met Veterans of WWII and WWI who had fought as younger teenagers than his contemporaries. Yeah. Partly, I'm contrasting Tam with the next generation. For a long time, I underestimated the age of the three main boys and Egwene, thinking Rand &co were 18, and Egwene 16 (because that seemed like a reasonable age for adulthood in a vaguely premodern setting) at the start. After a while, their correct ages got lodged in my head, so seeing that Tam actually was as young as I thought the main four were, when for years I'd assumed that he'd left when he was like 25 or 30, was a surprise.
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May 19, 2021 21:23
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aparmenideanmonad posted:He talks about it in TGS with Rand. Comrade Blyatlov posted:One Power users aside, Thom has gotta have one of the highest body counts in the series.
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May 19, 2021 21:23
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Invalid Validation posted:I’ll give Jordan credit, he didn’t just make Rand a blademaster immediately like most people would. He’s a loving bumbling idiot with it for a couple books at least. Eeeh. Rand takes Turak in a straight duel at the end of TGH, and even by the prologue of that Lan's saying he's getting good with it. So it's more like one book and change. (I guess there's maybe an implication that Turak is one of the least worthy blademasters in the series?)
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May 19, 2021 22:52
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aparmenideanmonad posted:He talks about it in TGS with Rand. I bet the sword belonged to whoever Tam killed, and had been directed to kill him by Stepaneos, possibly because he had turned traitor against Illian and betrayed Tam into the bargain. Tam won the blade but was "given" it by Stepaneos for his service. The only alternative is Mattin just had it in the vaults and decided to award it which is possible but an insanely valuable gift.
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May 19, 2021 23:14
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DarkHorse posted:I bet the sword belonged to whoever Tam killed, and had been directed to kill him by Stepaneos, possibly because he had turned traitor against Illian and betrayed Tam into the bargain. Tam won the blade but was "given" it by Stepaneos for his service. I don't know if the timings would work or not, but in the world of the wheel of time, it's discussed that the Whitecloaks would have taken down the command structure of the Illianer army were it not for the valour of the Companions. It may well be that Tam was a part of that particular battle, and as Second Captain, he sure would have been in the thick of it. EDIT: That was in 957, the Aiel crossed the Dragonwall for Laman in 976, so I think that's too early for Tam to have been involved. Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 19, 2021 23:26
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The Whitecloak war started pretty much as soon as Tam made it to Illian, so he essentially signed up to fight in it. Probably too early to get himself promoted to second highest rank of the Companions and in a Blademaster duel.
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May 19, 2021 23:31
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You know, I kinda like that we don't know all the answers to Tam's history. I mean, I'd have loved to see Jordan do those side story novels he'd been talking about before he got sick, especially Mat & Tuon in Seanchan, but not having every character put under a microscope and allowed to have some mystery works too.
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May 19, 2021 23:57
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Same. Its like with Thom. We know the man gets results but we don't need to know how.
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May 19, 2021 23:58
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Completely agreed, what else would we randomly debate about otherwise??
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May 20, 2021 00:01
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Braids.
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May 20, 2021 00:14
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Braids. Yeah but which national style
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May 20, 2021 00:27
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Aiel.
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May 20, 2021 00:41
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"I trust you, and my bow, and my axe" dangit I still like their relationship between the two Berelain sections.
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May 20, 2021 03:54
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Braids.
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May 20, 2021 04:18
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*pulls dong when upset* Hire me Jordan.
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May 20, 2021 04:35
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