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Even with the generally reduced size, the final battle of Gryps is probably the largest battle outside of the One Year War in the setting.
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May 21, 2021 15:57
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Gaius Marius posted:Even with the generally reduced size, the final battle of Gryps is probably the largest battle outside of the One Year War in the setting. Yep, it's a real big fight. Both sides throw literally everything they have into it because they know it's for all the marbles, and the mutual annihilation that results is what sets up Haman's easy conquest in ZZ.
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May 21, 2021 16:00
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Kanos posted:Yeah, the AEUG has other regular forces and Karaba might as well be "Land AEUG". Even then the subsequent Neo Zeon wars and the Laplace incident are also fairly small scale compared to the total war scenario of 0079. What would be the next UC war that marked a significant mobilization of troops and mobile suits? The Crossbone Vanguard? Zanscare? Nothing really rivals the OYW for sheer numbers but those two seem like they might have been far larger conflicts than the Zeon wars.
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May 21, 2021 16:20
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Crossbone is definitely pretty small. They took on one frontier colony and didn't seem to have total world conquering plans, or they wouldn't have if Iron mask hadn't been cucked. Zanscare is probably way bigger their fleets towards the end and during the arc with the kill satellite are approaching zeon level sizes
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May 21, 2021 16:28
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Gaius Marius posted:His suicide run at the Argama after Mouar bites it, only for him to chicken out and accomplish nothing is the funniest poo poo And the funniest thing about that suicide run is that Jerid did some legit damage and probably could have taken out the Argama’s bridge if he made another pass But he just leaves
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May 21, 2021 16:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:Even then the subsequent Neo Zeon wars and the Laplace incident are also fairly small scale compared to the total war scenario of 0079. What would be the next UC war that marked a significant mobilization of troops and mobile suits? The Crossbone Vanguard? Zanscare? Nothing really rivals the OYW for sheer numbers but those two seem like they might have been far larger conflicts than the Zeon wars. The Crossbone Vanguard stuff in F91 is basically colony on colony violence, with Cosmo Babylonia trying to carve out a sphere of influence to set up their space aristocracy until the Jupiter Empire swings in and pushes to earth to try to render it uninhabitable. Zanscare is effectively a repeat of the OYW in some ways - a group of assholes takes over a nation consisting of a group of colonies and uses that as a springboard to invade earth - but the Federation is mostly a spent force so it never reaches the same level of total war. Of course, the latter conflicts being smaller than the OYW is mostly because of the OYW, given that the OYW devastated everything and killed a greater part of the entirety of humanity. A conflict on that scale would probably require generations of recovery even in an optimal scenario, and "literally constant brushfire wars occurring back to back to back with no breathers" is hardly an optimal recovery scenario. Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 16:29
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Has humanity had a conflict on the scale of world war 2 since world war 2?
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May 21, 2021 16:31
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ninjewtsu posted:Has humanity had a conflict on the scale of world war 2 since world war 2? No, but I'd bet we probably would have if mutually assured destruction wasn't a thing. It's not like we lack for brushfire wars, after all, it's just that all the most powerful nations also have buttons that will kill the world if pressed so none of them want to risk open conflict. But WW2 is a pretty good point of reference. Victory takes place closer to the OYW(74 years) than we are to WW2(76 years); imagine how successful the recovery after WW2 would have been if the war killed an order of magnitude more people and WW2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc. broke out on a nearly annual or biannual basis from 1945 until like 1990.
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May 21, 2021 16:39
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ninjewtsu posted:Has humanity had a conflict on the scale of world war 2 since world war 2? Depends on whether you consider the last seventy years of fallout conflicts with their roots in ww2 their own thing or not, but in general no. UC wars following 0079 just seem really small in terms of total manpower mobilized. I know mobile suits are a huge force multiplier but it's still a drop into the mid hundreds for successor wars versus the sheer thousands of suits in OYW
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May 21, 2021 16:43
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To be fair we've had some pretty gigantic wars that most people have zero idea have happened. The 2nd congo war had almost 6million dead which tops almost any early modern conflict except the taiping rebellion and the Napoleonic wars.
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May 21, 2021 16:43
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But we haven't had any great powers trigger all out war against each other and throw the most advanced military technology against each other. Though that's a pretty normal anime and video game thing. Somehow even small groups with limited resources can get their hands on massive, cutting edge war machines. That said, it's only 21 years between WW1 and WW2 in Europe.
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May 21, 2021 16:48
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Keep on mind though. Even WWII was only about 3% of the total population Dead. The one year war is a full fifty percent just gone. The fact that the whole system took a civil war, and five smaller rebellions to finally collapse is a miracle.
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May 21, 2021 16:51
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The only reason the UC can have so many wars is largely because they boxed up nukes. The Antarctic Treaty is a foundational concept to the UC timeline that sets up a world where continual war can come back. It leads to colony drops and finding other ways to accomplish the same poo poo at a way different scale and then doesn't allow for retaliation in a significant enough way to create the story for the federation to meet zeon on it's level with mobile suits. As shown in Destiny/SEED (another reason they are bad) if you really wanted to the retaliation is nuking every colony and loving space entirely, which just isn't an option in UC. Based on 0083 there just aren't enough nukes left and the ones that are around are some seriously annoying poo poo to access and use. irl I don't think we will ever see another super powers WW without some drastic change to the status of major WMDs because mutually assured destruction along with the economic impacts of removing one of those powers will prevent it.
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May 21, 2021 17:29
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The jovians plan on crossbone was to nuke the poo poo out of the earth with their divindad units.
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May 21, 2021 17:31
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Gaius Marius posted:The jovians plan on crossbone was to nuke the poo poo out of the earth with their divindad units. Until they animate it, it aint real I don't care how many gunpla they produce of it. Also late UC is so nebulous to the point where until they hammer it down with the UC next project I just don't believe any of it may stay or be used the same way.
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May 21, 2021 17:36
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What was the yield on the GPO2's nuke anyways? Nukes in space are still big bombs but they trade the superheated atmospheric blast wave for a much wider dispersal of lethal radiation waves.
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May 21, 2021 17:38
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I don't remember the numerical yield, but IIRC the reason why it was so crazy was that it was a strategic-scale payload packed into a tactical-scale shell.
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May 21, 2021 18:20
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Gaius Marius posted:The jovians plan on crossbone was to nuke the poo poo out of the earth with their divindad units. Jupiter's whole deal from when it first comes up in Zeta through being in the spotlight for Crossbone is that it's far away and vaguely mysterious; if there's anywhere where the sociopolitical rules of the UC being broken fits, it's there.
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May 21, 2021 18:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:What was the yield on the GPO2's nuke anyways? Nukes in space are still big bombs but they trade the superheated atmospheric blast wave for a much wider dispersal of lethal radiation waves. The only way the GP02's nuke makes sense is if you pretend it's a casaba howitzer and fudge the physics with a Minovsky handwave.
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May 21, 2021 18:40
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Lemon-Lime posted:The only way the GP02's nuke makes sense is if you pretend it's a casaba howitzer and fudge the physics with a Minovsky handwave. Space magic minovsky particles moving so fast when reaching to gamma radiation that they simulate an atmospheric blast in vacuum.
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May 21, 2021 19:27
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Jupiter's whole deal from when it first comes up in Zeta through being in the spotlight for Crossbone is that it's far away and vaguely mysterious; if there's anywhere where the sociopolitical rules of the UC being broken fits, it's there. It's weird even in the original Gundam. Challia Bull may be a relatively normal guy considering, but his Newtype powers are attributed to his time out with the Jupiter fleet.
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May 21, 2021 21:31
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This is probably a very stupid question, but did anybody else get some Gundam vibes in the Expanse? I could very easily see Char and Marco Inaros hanging out. Speaking of, does Mars ever amount to anything in any of the Gundam series? I think I read there was some Zeon remnants on that planet at some point but I don't know what they were up to. E: well, that hits the nail on the head.
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May 21, 2021 22:40
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https://thespool.net/features/the-expanse-mobile-suit-gundam/
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May 21, 2021 22:40
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As Nero Danced posted:This is probably a very stupid question, but did anybody else get some Gundam vibes in the Expanse? I could very easily see Char and Marco Inaros hanging out. Iron Blooded Orphans is focused on Mars, with all the protagonists being Mars natives. (And if we're talking expanse, I've seen IBO's lead compared to Amos Burton more than once.)
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May 21, 2021 22:46
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Now that is a hell of a selling point.
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May 21, 2021 22:54
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If Mikazuki is Amos that would make Orga into Holden. A hot-headed, well intentioned moron who doesn't think his plans through and ends up causing more problems for himself in the end hoping he can brute force his way to a better outcome? Yeah, they might as well be brothers. Expanse and Gundam do share a lot of themes, particularly those of cultural and economic division, communication over vast distances and advances in technology causing an irreversible paradigm shift from the old status quo. Mars in Universal Century Gundam is home to Mars Zeon, chronologically one of the last holdouts of the Zeon remnants. Their Oldsmobile Army suits are the antagonists of Gundam F90 and they're just One Year war designs with souped up Geara Doga reactors jammed into their frames. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:06 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 23:00
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Kanos posted:That said, I still think Victory is better than most of the OVAs if you can get over how weird and dark it can be. It's a master class in combat choreography, has a banging soundtrack, Uso is a great main character, and it has great designs. The plot is weird but mostly coherent. It also has one of the best scenes in the franchise in the Reinforce's final charge, IMO. The Japanese 2channel SRW board held a poll years ago now for the most moving scene in a mecha show (up to 2007), and that scene was the highest rated scene in Gundam coming in at number 2; seocnd only to the "Goodbye" scene in RahXephon. I've no idea how many voted or whether there was vote stuffing or anything, but it seems to be pretty highly regarded in general despite Victory not being the most beloved series. It placed 19th out of 40 on NHK's Gundam poll for favourite shows several years back, for instance. Which we know had nearly 1.75 million votes. Arcsquad12 posted:The AEUG has other ships per supplementary material and they have Karaba as an ally along with whatever private forces Anaheim supplies them with. Trouble is that the show only follows the two main ships but without the "giant intrasolar war" background 0079 put on it lacks wider context. I was flicking through episode 31 of Mobile Suit Gundam yesterday for something and there's a scene about half way through only maybe 10 seconds long of a fleet leaving Jaburo for space that I had completely forgot was there. The scene has no impact on the episode in general, and presumably wouldn't have any pay off until Solomon in episodes 35/36, but it stood out to me after seeing it again because the show was using simple stuff like that to establish the context of the wider war, and what other parties are doing to affect it. As well as that Zeon's focus on the White Base (or at least Char's) was blinding them to other stuff the Federation was doing. Kanos posted:Yeah, the AEUG has other regular forces and Karaba might as well be "Land AEUG". Hayato apparently started Karaba at some point before the 30 Bunch Incident when the Titans were becoming a notable problem, while Blex started AEUG around the same time and both operated independently as smaller, disorganized resistence to the Titans. The 30 Bunch incident galvanized the movement though, and Karaba pretty much merged with AEUG at that point (along with possibly other groups), to the point that, yeah, Karaba were basically the Earth based branch of AEUG for all intents and purposes. They both took orders from and were mostly supplied by AE, AEUG personnel worked extensively with Karaba when they were on Earth and Hayato even seems to defer to Char when he's around once he's taken over as leader of AEUG the second time they're on Earth. Some Japanese databooks apparently refer to Karaba as part of AEUG too, though I haven't read them to verify that.
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May 21, 2021 23:23
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As Nero Danced posted:This is probably a very stupid question, but did anybody else get some Gundam vibes in the Expanse? I could very easily see Char and Marco Inaros hanging out. F-90 features Mars Zeon as the main antagonists, the most recent Advance of Zeta spinoff also goes into the various Zeon Remnants on Mars, including that one of the sub-factions is being led by a surviving Puru who has taken up an identity as a Zabi
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May 21, 2021 23:52
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isn't there a whole thing about mars in AGE too? also yeah IBO has pretty substantial portions of the story take place on mars
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May 21, 2021 23:53
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ninjewtsu posted:isn't there a whole thing about mars in AGE too? We don’t talk about Mars Rays.
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May 22, 2021 00:15
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ninjewtsu posted:isn't there a whole thing about mars in AGE too? Yeah, AGE has the invaders turn out to be human survivors from a failed Mars colony who were pretending to be aliens because reasons. Apparently, they got space cancer from "Mars Rays", but they wouldn't move. Also because reasons. (Speaking of idiots, it's kind of amazing how many people try to claim IBO flopped in Japan, despite it having the best ratings for any seasonal anime when it was airing, pretty good blu-ray sales, great scores in the Gundam poll, and so on. I really don't get it.)
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May 22, 2021 00:38
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orga keeps getting plastered on their general gundam promo material too from what i've seen, like clearly there's appeal they're marketing towards
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May 22, 2021 00:44
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I just want Orga to cut those drat bangs. My OCD kicks in every time I see him play with that tuft.
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May 22, 2021 01:07
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, AGE has the invaders turn out to be human survivors from a failed Mars colony who were pretending to be aliens because reasons. Well, solar radiation of various kinds is a thing and would affect Mars more than Earth because Mars doesn't have an atmosphere or magnetosphere to protect it like Earth. At least, in reality. Mars in AGE is terraformed, so it definitely has an atmosphere, which would do a good bit to protect from that already and may have a magnetosphere as part of the terraforming but it wouldn't be definite. You can also just build with thicker materials or better insulators, wear thicker clothing (or more effecient clothing for the purposes of insulation) etc. to guard against it. So radiation could conceivably be a problem, but not nearly the problem the show portrays it as even assuming "Mars Rays" are radiation. It's not totally out of left field as a problem, but their lack of solution, especially when they apparently have a giant colony ship that can move at will, is definitely loving stupid. ninjewtsu posted:orga keeps getting plastered on their general gundam promo material too from what i've seen, like clearly there's appeal they're marketing towards Orga has been center to a few memes in Japan from what I gather. Including his dying pose becoming a memetic image. So Sunrise is presumably capitalizing on that popularity. He placed well on NHK's character poll too (second or third, I think).
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May 22, 2021 01:12
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chiasaur11 posted:(Speaking of idiots, it's kind of amazing how many people try to claim IBO flopped in Japan, despite it having the best ratings for any seasonal anime when it was airing, pretty good blu-ray sales, great scores in the Gundam poll, and so on. I really don't get it.)
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May 22, 2021 01:24
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The Turbines arc that immediately follows Tekkadan establishing themselves is hot garbage that sucks all the momentum out of the show and replaces it with a contrived lost brother plot and all the women becoming baby crazed. Thankfully once it's over they get to the colonies and violent class revolution takes over and drives the rest of the season.
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May 22, 2021 01:34
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I like the lost brothers plots. People seem to get really hung up on Akihiro never mentioning his brother before the episode where it becomes relevant, as if that's not an extremely common thing in tv writing. The human debris and old vs new/chosen family stuff remains relevant throughout the series so some weird character design aside the Brewers arc is a pretty important foundation to what eventually goes down. I don't like much of the mafia stuff, it's all pretty lame.
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May 22, 2021 01:47
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The Brewers arc is my least favorite piece of writing in all of Gundam* *Not counting all of AGE
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May 22, 2021 01:53
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The Brewers arc sucks but lol at it being the worst part of the franchise in a franchise that includes Victory/Destiny/Age/Narrativr
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May 22, 2021 02:24
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RevolverDivider posted:The Brewers arc sucks but lol at it being the worst part of the franchise in a franchise that includes Victory/Destiny/Age/Narrativr Don't forget the first Divers show!
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May 22, 2021 03:02
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