Invalid Validation posted:

I’ll give Jordan credit, he didn’t just make Rand a blademaster immediately like most people would. He’s a loving bumbling idiot with it for a couple books at least.

Nihilarian posted:

well he's a blademaster by the end of book 2

Invalid Validation posted:

*pulls dong when upset*

Hire me Jordan.

Mat Cauthon posted:

That was like 50% saidin saving his rear end. He could probably be capably called a Blademaster by book 4/5 though.

Spek posted:

I don't think he channelled in Falme? He still didn't know women couldn't feel him channel so he wasn't doing it intentionally and I don't recall any hints that he did it unintentionally.

Libluini posted:

he channeled a ton in Falme, or did you think he activated his anti-gravity implant when he started walking into the loving sky

Also, his internal dialogue makes it clear he just surprised his enemy, and would have loving bought it if the Seanshan-guy hadn't severely underestimated Rand, thanks to Rand's insistence on starting the fight refusing to even assume the Void, just because he was scared of grabbing Saidin

Libluini posted:

he channeled a ton in Falme, or did you think he activated his anti-gravity implant when he started walking into the loving sky

Anias posted:

The character race is most excited about that first appears in s2 has a name beginning with EL. There’s like 40 of those. What a hilarious troll this pre release hype stream is.

quote:

Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan, NS, p. 32—Aes Sedai of the Red Ajah. She was the only woman besides Siuan and Moiraine to finish novice training in less than three years. She finished Accepted training in less three years as well, also a record. Moiraine describes her as a “detestable woman.” She currently serves as advisor to the Queen of Andor, a post she has held for three years. See also Trakand, Morgase.
Elam Dowtry, tEotW, p. 12 [10]—One of Mat's friends in Emond's Field.
Elan Morin Tedronai, tEotW, p. x—Man who appears to Lews Therin Telamon shortly after he killed his entire family. He Healed Lews Therin from his madness, allowing him to finally realize what he had done. Elan Morin is now known as Ishamael, which means “Betrayer of Hope” in the Old Tongue. He claims to follow a “different power” now, that of the Dark One himself. He was once humbled by Lews Therin in the Hall of Servants, and defeated by him at the gates of Paaren Disen. However, Lews Therin fled and killed himself before Elan Morin could do with him as he had planned. See also Ba'alzamon; Ishamael; Moridin.
Elandria Borudat, ToM, p. 228—Author of Seeing Through the Breaking. She insists that Mesaana was one to work herself, unwilling to trust others to do the job correctly.
Elansu, tGH, p. 13—The shatayan of Fal Dara keep. She is the one who informed Rand of Moiraine's decision to make him new clothes.
Lady Elayne Traemane, tFoH, p. 354 (251)—Ellorien's grandmother. Morgase named her daughter after her. See also Traemane, Ellorien; Trakand, Elayne.
Elayne Trakand, tEotW, p. 441—Daughter-Heir of Andor, daughter of Morgase and sister of Gawyn. She is quite pretty. She is preparing to leave for Tar Valon to undergo novice training, as all daughters-heir of Andor have done since the nation's founding. See also al'Thor, Rand; al'Vere, Egwene; Amys; Aviendha; Birgitte; Damodred, Galadedrid; Damodred, Taringail; Daughter-Heir (of Andor); Farshaw, Elmindreda; Hanlon, Daved; Shyanda; Taravin, Dyelin; Traemane, Elayne; Trakand, Gawyn; Trakand, Morgase.
Elbar, aMoL, p. 686—Someone Mat's ancestor fought once. He considers it one of his most satisfying battles, behind the Shaido attack and the Last Battle.
Elber, tDR, p. 537 (431)—Guard at the gates to the Queen's palace in Caemlyn. He is fat and has eyes like a rat. He tries to have Mat arrested when he says he comes from Tar Valon.
Eldase, tPoD, p. 70 (67)—Fierce-eyed Kinswoman. She supplies lacquerware for merchants.
Eldrene ay Ellan ay Carlan, tEotW, p. 110—Queen of Manetheren during the Trolloc Wars, wife of Aemon, her Warder. It was said that she was so beautiful flowers bloomed to make her smile. She was also called Ellisande, “Rose of the Sun” in the Old Tongue. See also al Caar al Thorin, Aemon.
Eldrid Methin, CoT, p. 82 (84)—Worker in Mistress Beldair's kitchen. She talks to Ledar and Underhill when they arrive in Cairhien.
Eldrin Cauthon, tEotW, p. [12]—Girl from Emond's Field. She is about two years younger than Egwene. She seems to enjoy telling on her brother, Mat, after he has gotten himself into mischief (which is quite often). See also Cauthon, Abell; Cauthon, Bodewhin; Cauthon, Matrim; Cauthon, Natti.
Eldrin Hackly, KoD, p. 367—Big Andoran wagoneer who almost broke Deni Colford's neck while drunk.
Eldrith Jhondar, tSR, p. 631 (569)—Plump Aes Sedai of the Black Ajah. She was of the Brown Ajah to the rest of the Tower until she left with Liandrin. She hates cats—things might get complicated if Marillin Gemalphin finds out Eldrith has been killing the stray cats she has been adopting.
Lord Elegar, tFoH, p. 29 (24)—Minor noble in Andor whom Rahvin is using to extract information about things. He is a Darkfriend.
Elenar, aMoL, p. 43—Aiel apprentice, in training under the tutilage of Hayde and Shanni. She is of the Daryne Aiel. Amys recommends asking her to verify Aviendha's visions from the second trip through the crystal columns of Rhuidean. This idea is rejected; the Wise Ones think it unwise or unfair to ask her to do such a task.
Lady Elenia Sarand, tFoH, p. 347 (247)—Shrewish, honey-haired wife of Jarid. She is the High Seat of House Sarand in Andor. During the Succession, her House opposed Morgase; she was only allowed into the Palace for State occasions until Gaebril Compelled Morgase to rescind the exile. See also Sarand, Jarid.
Eleyan al'Landerin, tGS, p. 396—Aes Sedai of legend, of the Green Ajah. There is a statue of her and her Warders on the southwest side of Tar Valon. Shemerin escaped the city via a water gate about five minutes' walk from Eleyan's statue. Editor's note: The name of this character is likely an homage to the creator of Wheel of Time fan site TarValon.net, whose true name is Melissa, but whose screen name is Eleyan Teyal al'Landerin. According to a personal communication, her two Warders are named Valorian and Joseff, though their names are not mentioned in the books.
Elienda, WH, p. 165 (180)—Tall Maiden of the Spear with wide shoulders.
Elin Warrel, NS, p. 33—Novice on guard duty outside the Amyrlin's study. She is very slender. Moiraine caught her reading Hearts of Flame, a romance novel of sorts. The book is considered inappropriate for novices. She is three years older than Moiraine.
Elis, NS, p. 309—Pale-haired young woman, a servant in the Aesdaishar Palace.
Elisa al'Vere, tEotW, p. [8]—Third oldest of five daughters of Marin and Bran al'Vere of Emond's Field. She is eighteen. She wears her hair to her waist, tied with a blue kerchief—the Women's Circle has not yet granted her the privilege of wearing it braided. She is one year older than Nynaeve. She is very fond of quotations; Egwene finds in annoying when they get stuck in her head. See also al'Caar, Jac; al'Vere, Alene; al'Vere, Berowyn; al'Vere, Brandelwyn; al'Vere, Egwene; al'Vere, Elisa; al'Vere, Loise; al'Vere, Marin.
Elise Marwin, LoC, p. 200 (275)—Girl from Emond's Field. She comes with Verin and Alanna to become Aes Sedai.
Eliya, tPoD, p. 154 (164)—Rider of Segani, along with Chulein the morat'raken. He fell off the animal and died.
Ella, tGH, p. 487 (430)—Serving girl in The Bunch of Grapes, an inn in the Foregate of Cairhien in which Thom Merrilin and Dena stay.
Ellaine Marise'idin Alshinn, tGH, p. xii (ix)—Chief Librarian at the Court of Arafel in 231 NE. She translated the Karaethon Cycle.
Elle, LoC, p. 208 (285)—Fair-haired girl from Watch Hill. She comes with Verin and Alanna to become Aes Sedai. She has the spark inborn; she will channel whether she is taught or not.
Ellid Abareim, NS, p. 75—One of the Accepted. She is one of the two prettiest girls in the Accepted's quarters, and she is very aware of that fact. She always smiles when looking in a mirror, and always seems to be near to a mirror when she smiles. Waves of golden hair frame her nearly perfect face, her eyes look like large sapphires, and her skin is a rich creamy color. The only fault in her appearance, according to Moiraine, is an over-abundance of bosom. She is very tall, as tall as most men. She is fond of telling everyone that she wants to be a Green and have six Warders. She has spiky handwriting.
Ellisande, tGH, p. 63 (56)—Name given to Eldrene, wife of Aemon al'Caar al'Thorin, king of Manetheren. The name means “Rose of the Sun.” Her country was betrayed by Tetsuan, who was then the Amyrlin Seat, out of jealousy over her abilities and influence. See ay Ellan ay Carlan, Eldrene. See also al Caar al Thorin, Aemon; Tetsuan.
Lord Ellisar, NS, p. 108—Lord in whose encampment many of the infants that Ellid took down the names of for the bounty.
Ellisor, tDR, p. 421 (337)—Captain of the Blue Crane, the ship Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve take to Tear. He was anxious to get rid of the three passengers, since they always seemed to be seasick.
Queen Ellizelle, tFoH, p. 623 (441)—Queen of Ghealdan after after Johanin died. She tried to put down Masema's gatherings but failed. She died by drinking poison afterward. She was succeeded by Teresia. See also Johanin; Kigarin, Alliandre Maritha; Teresia.
Lady Ellorien Traemane, tFoH, p. 354 (251)—Andoran lady, leader of a strong House that supported Morgase during the Succession, and one of Morgase's best friends. Morgase exiled her from Caemlyn as per Gaebril's suggestion; when Ellorien demanded to know why, Morgase had her flogged. Elayne was named after her grandmother.
Lady Ells, aMoL, p. 360—Saldaen noble. She is present at the battle for Tarwin's Gap.
Ellya Mowly, NS, p. 80—Infant daughter of Careme. She is the same age as Sedrin, to the day. See also Mowly, Careme.
Elmiara, ToM, p. 786—Character in “Elmiara and the Shadoweyes,” one of Thom's stories. She spent a hundred days wandering in a maze, looking for the healing spring of Sund to save her lover's life. Her story is true: it describes Birgitte's efforts to save Gaidal by entering the Tower of Ghenjei.
Elmindreda (Min) Farshaw, tEotW, p. 162—Young woman from Baerlon. She has short dark hair that she keeps like most boys her age do. She is slender, and barely taller than Moiraine. Her dark eyes are bigger than Egwene's. She dresses like most boys do, a habit she picked up from her hours in the mines with her father; her mother is dead. Min has a special ability, known to few; she can see images around people that predict their future. Moiraine calls them pieces of the Pattern. She sees a lot of things around Rand and his friends, but she claims that if she told Rand everything she saw about him, he would be as curly-haired as his “friend with the shoulders.”
Elnore al'Meara, tGH, p. 350 (309)—Nynaeve's mother. In the last segment of her test for Accepted, Nynaeve names her daughter after her own mother. See also al'Meara, Nynaeve; Mandragoran, Elnore.
Elnore Mandragoran, tGH, p. 350 (309)—One of Lan and Nynaeve's children in the world of the testing ter'angreal. She was named after Nynaeve's mother. See also al'Meara, Elnore; al'Meara, Nynaeve; Mandragoran, Lan.
Elora, LoC, p. 672 (948)—An Ogier, daughter of Amar daughter of Coura. She wrote Men of Fire and Women of Air, a book about use of the One Power by humans, in the early days of Artur Hawkwing's reign. See also Amar; Coura.
Elricain Tavolin, tGH, p. 318 (280)—Commander of the escort that Caldevwin assigns to Rand and company on their way from Tremonsien to Cairhien.
Elsbet, tSR, p. 331 (292)—A woman who was allegedly the Queen of the entire world in the Age before the Age of Legends, according to one of Thom's gleeman tales. Thom doubts she was queen of anything more than a very strong nation. Editor's note: It has been speculated that Elsbet's story is actually that Queen Elizabeth, who was indeed queen over a majority of the world's land area at one point.
Elsbet Luhhan, LoC, p. 567—Misspelling of Alsbet Luhhan. This mistake does not occur in later editions of the books. See Luhhan, Alsbet.
Else Grinwell, tEotW, p. 388—Dark-haired, big-eyed, pretty daughter of the Grinwell farmers, the eldest of nine. She is nineteen, a year younger than Rand and Mat. See also Grinwell.
Elsie, CoT, p. 267 (315)—Maid in service of House Matherin. She is very nervous around Elayne. She is tall, about 25 years old, has dark hair, dark eyes, and a plump bosom.
Elswell, aMoL, p. 896—Aes Sedai of unknown Ajah. She is trying to convince Rodel Ituralde to take the Throne of Arad Doman now that Alsalam is dead. She argues that stability in Arad Doman is particularly important now that Tenobia and the Bashere are dead, leaving Saldaea without a ruler.
Elvaine Martan, KoD, p. 365—Wife of Brannin, head of a minor house in Andor. Their manor is not much grander than a large farmhouse. It is home to generations; a third of their armsmen are actually his sons, grandsons, nephews, and great-nephews. See also Martan, Brannin.
Elver Shaene, aCoS, p. 533 (683)—Captain of the longboat that took Rand aboard the Sea Folk ship.
Elwin, tSR, p. 421 (376)—Adan's son. He died of hunger at age ten. See also al'Caar, Adan; Lewin.
Elwinn Taron, LoC, p. 34 (33)—Wisdom of Deven Ride. She is short and round and has a motherly smile.
Elyas Machera, NS, p. 115—One of Rina's Warders. See also Aybara, Perrin; Hafden, Rina; Long Tooth; Noam.
Elynde, aCoS, p. 311 (393)—Woman who always tells Setalle Anan that she is not firm enough with her husband when she allows him to speak out of turn.
Elza Penfell, aCoS, p. 62 (66)—Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah. She was captured and shielded after the battle at Dumai's Wells.

Nihilarian posted:

It doesn't really matter the circumstances. In order to take advantage of the opponent underestimating him - or any other mitigating factor you could come up with - Rand had to be blademaster level himself. A nonblademaster would have ate poo poo even if he was a bit better than the dude expected. Beyond that aspect it was a fairly straightforward duel.

posted:

Rand desperately wanted to seek the void. It was plain he would need every shred of ability he could
muster, and even then his chances of leaving the room alive would be small. He had to leave alive. Egwene was
almost close enough for him to shout to her, and he had to free her, somehow. But saidin waited in the void.
The thought made his heart leap with eagerness at the same time that it turned his stomach. But just as close as
Egwene were those other women. Damane. If he touched saidin, and if he could not stop himself channeling,
they would know, Verin had told him. Know and wonder. So many, so close. He might survive Turak only to
die facing damane, and he 'could not die before Egwene was free. Rand raised his blade.

Turak glided toward him on silent feet. Blade rang on blade like hammer on anvil.

From the first it was clear to Rand that the man was testing him, pushing only hard enough to see what
he could do, then pushing a little harder, then just a little harder still. It was quick wrists and quick feet that kept
Rand alive as much as skill. Without the void, he was always half a heartbeat behind. The tip of Turak's heavy
sword made a stinging trench just under his left eye. A flap of coat sleeve hung away from his shoulder, the
darker for being wet. Under a neat slash beneath his right arm, precise as a tailor's cut, he could feel warm
dampness spreading down his ribs.

There was disappointment on the High Lord's face. He stepped back with a gesture of disgust. "Where
did you find that blade, boy? Or do they here truly award the heron to those no more skilled than you? No
matter. Make your peace. It is time to die. " He came on again.

The void enveloped Rand. Saidin flowed toward him, glowing with the promise of the One Power, but
he ignored it. It was no more difficult than ignoring a barbed thorn twisting in his flesh. He refused to be filled
with the Power, refused to be one with the male half of the True Source. He was one with the sword in his
hands, one with the floor beneath his feet, one with the walls. One with Turak.

He recognized the forms the High Lord used; they were a little different from what he had been taught,
but not enough. The Swallow Takes Flight met Parting the Silk. Moon on the Water met The Wood Grouse
Dances. Ribbon in the Air met Stones Falling From the Cliff. They moved about the room as in a dance, and
their music was steel against steel.

Disappointment and disgust faded from Turak's dark eyes, replaced by surprise, then concentration.
Sweat appeared on the High Lord's face as he pressed Rand harder. Lightning of Three Prongs met Leaf on the
Breeze.

Rand's thoughts floated outside the void, apart from himself, hardly noticed. It was not enough. He faced
a blademaster, and with the void and every ounce of his skill he was barely managing to hold his own. Barely.
He had to end it before Turak finally did. Saidin? No! Sometimes it is necessary to Sheath the Sword in your
own flesh. But that would not help Egwene, either. He had to end it now. Now.

Turak's eyes widened as Rand glided forward. So far he had only defended; now he attacked, all out.
The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. Every movement of his blade was an attempt to reach the High Lord;
now all Turak could do was retreat and defend, down the length of the room, almost to the door.

In an instant, while Turak still tried to face the Boar, Rand charged. The River Undercuts the Bank. He
dropped to one knee, blade slashing across. He did not need Turak's gasp, or the feel of resistance to his cut to
know. He heard two thumps and turned his head, knowing what he would see. He looked down the length of his
blade, wet and red, to where the High Lord lay, sword tumbled from his limp hand, a dark dampness staining
the birds woven in the carpet under his body. Turak's eyes were still open, but already filmed with death.

The void shook. He had faced Trollocs before, faced Shadow spawn. Never before had he confronted a
human being with a sword except in practice or bluff. I just killed a man. The void shook, and saidin tried to fill
him.

Mat Cauthon posted:

I don't think this is true or that the material supports it. Rand has lots of advantages on his side when he fights Turak:

- He can channel, or at least touch saidin, which confers some physical and mental strength just by achieving the Void.

Nihilarian posted:

In the context of this discussion, "trained by badasses" and "capable of entering the void" are not advantages, they are basic requirements to be a Blademaster. Rand did not gain the void by being a channeler, he gained it from training with Tam, a nonchanneling Blademaster.

Residual memories, fair enough, but LTT is a part of him, that is his actual experience supporting him. "He used magic, like he did on Bela" is explicitly contradicted by the text, without any indication that the narration is unreliable on this matter.

EDIT: I don't disagree that he had the skill but not the mental to be a Blademaster, I don't think that contradicts my point of "you have to be at least blademaster level to take advantage of a blademaster's mistake and beat them with it"

Anias posted:

The character rafe is most excited about that first appears in s2 has a name beginning with EL. There’s like 40 of those. What a hilarious troll this pre release hype stream is.


VvvvvV yeah it’s great.

Hexel posted:

glancing at the El list the only ones that stand out to me are Elaida and Elayne

Hexel posted:

glancing at the El list the only ones that stand out to me are Elaida and Elayne

Hexel posted:

glancing at the El list the only ones that stand out to me are Elaida and Elayne

Cavelcade posted:

Elyas, maybe, if they put off that stuff until S2?

mossyfisk posted:

There's not actually any such thing as "blademaster level", it's just a special club for sword murder.

Nihilarian posted:

there is presumably a level at which everyone would agree you are a blademaster, otherwise the alternative method of becoming a blademaster doesnt make sense.

Shageletic posted:

Its all a bit silly. Being good at anything is never as clean cut as being designated a class in DnD.

Professional basketball players can be beat if they're having a bad day and they're facing somone young and athletic.

silvergoose posted:

Then again, that exact phenomenon is called out very loudly.

"Who was the greatest swordsman of all time?"

Data Graham posted:

I wish I was ta'veren and I could just be instantly awesome at everything that everyone else has to train their whole lives for

Torrannor posted:

Perrin probably had it best out of the three. Mat didn't exactly escape unscarred, not to mention being raped, while the worst Perrin had to endure was his wife getting captured.

aparmenideanmonad posted:

Torrannor posted:

Perrin probably had it best out of the three. Mat didn't exactly escape unscarred, not to mention being raped, while the worst Perrin had to endure was his wife getting captured.