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i'll admit it's hard to top Wattary Gira
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Jul 24, 2021 17:52
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Katejina as a character makes vastly more sense if you assume that Chronicle sent her off to be cyber-newtyped after she leaked information to the League Militaire during that huge space battle around the Keilas Guilie.
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Jul 24, 2021 18:21
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Katejina makes plenty of sense in the context of being someone living through Victory. She starts out angry and understanding that the current situation is bad, but she's just enough older and smarter than Uso to get clever about it, and ends up with Zanscare and believing in Maria-ism because the alternatives suck, this nice lady has magic healing powers, and matriarchy as the solution to life's problems is going appeal to an ambitious young woman like Katejina. Then she gets to be part of all the fighting and that's where it all really pushes Katejina to the edge. For all the trauma Uso experiences, he has Shakti, a group of friends and peers, Marbet who's one of Gundam's more reasonable adults, and a whole squad of older women supporting him as they die. Everyone in the Zanscare Empire a schemer out for themselves except for one man, so the only constants Katejina has in her life while she's doing all this war and genocide are Chronicle (who sucks) and fighting Uso, and she's too stubborn to do anything but push further down that path and hate Uso more and more.
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Jul 24, 2021 19:01
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I am too drunk to phone post my Katejina thoughts or my magnum opus of Gundam ladies I love but I will die on the hill that Katejina is the real Char of Victory.
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Jul 25, 2021 04:01
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Katejina makes plenty of sense in the context of being someone living through Victory. She starts out angry and understanding that the current situation is bad, but she's just enough older and smarter than Uso to get clever about it, and ends up with Zanscare and believing in Maria-ism because the alternatives suck, this nice lady has magic healing powers, and matriarchy as the solution to life's problems is going appeal to an ambitious young woman like Katejina. Then she gets to be part of all the fighting and that's where it all really pushes Katejina to the edge. For all the trauma Uso experiences, he has Shakti, a group of friends and peers, Marbet who's one of Gundam's more reasonable adults, and a whole squad of older women supporting him as they die. Everyone in the Zanscare Empire a schemer out for themselves except for one man, so the only constants Katejina has in her life while she's doing all this war and genocide are Chronicle (who sucks) and fighting Uso, and she's too stubborn to do anything but push further down that path and hate Uso more and more. That explains much of it, but not all of it, like her sudden, vast leap in both piloting talent and mental instability (which has been a traditional UC shorthand for 'this person has been cyber-newtyped' ever since ZZ, and is also shown to be a thing in Victory with Fuala). It seems like it's very strongly implied, at least, especially since she goes straight from 'non-combatant willing to risk her life to help Uso' to 'murderous combat genius who hates Uso' with zero in-between.
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Jul 25, 2021 04:15
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Never forget that Katejina's response to seeing her home city bombed is basically "great, they all deserved it" instead of outrage or horror. Going the cyber newtype route would make sense.
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Jul 25, 2021 04:20
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Never forget that Katejina's response to seeing her home city bombed is basically "great, they all deserved it" instead of outrage or horror. Going the cyber newtype route would make sense. That's seconds before she makes sure that the kids don't see the worst of it, and an episode after she'd served as a volunteer keeping people safe during the attack. In context, she's cynical but caring for the first half of the show. Tomino characters need to be weighed by their deeds as much as their words.
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Jul 25, 2021 04:59
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today im going to take everything char says at face value
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Jul 25, 2021 05:18
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Never forget that Katejina's response to seeing her home city bombed is basically "great, they all deserved it" instead of outrage or horror. Going the cyber newtype route would make sense. To be fair I might have a similar reaction depending on how my day had been going up until then.
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Jul 25, 2021 07:07
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I can buy the cyber newtype idea because like, the second time she goes after Uso in a mobile suit she's saying something about him having potential to become a newtype. So maybe she is, maybe she isn't  she's still a jerk though and I unironically love these stupid wheels and the wheelship.
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Jul 25, 2021 11:30
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Finally has some spare time and watched Hathaway, excited to see what they do with the next, but I also started watching iron blooded orphans and oh my God this show is phenomenal. Thanks to everyone who recommended it.
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Jul 25, 2021 16:13
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Should I give F91 a watch? I heard that the story is rushed as gently caress due to it originally being a television series crammed into a movie
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Jul 25, 2021 21:44
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Yeah it's gorgeous and ninety minutes long
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Jul 25, 2021 21:46
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Willo567 posted:Should I give F91 a watch? I heard that the story is rushed as gently caress due to it originally being a television series crammed into a movie It's only an hour and a half, the opening is really strong, the ending is okay, and it looks great. The film's a mess, but you probably won't regret seeing it.
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Jul 25, 2021 21:56
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chiasaur11 posted:It's only an hour and a half, the opening is really strong, the ending is okay, and it looks great. The film's a mess, but you probably won't regret seeing it. I think it would really benefit from a trilogy remake similar to Hathaway's Flash to make the story less of a mess
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Jul 25, 2021 22:03
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Willo567 posted:Should I give F91 a watch? I heard that the story is rushed as gently caress due to it originally being a television series crammed into a movie It's not quite a full series, because Tomino wrote the movie's script around the 13 episodes they had plotted out at the time rather than the full television show since they only had plans beyond that point. So that's maybe 280 minutes of show squished into 120 minutes of content. So there is some compression there, but not a huge amount so than many other compilation films in the franchise would do, and honestly, it's probably less than some. Tomino also didn't just take the television plot and grind it up for the movie, since the original script for episode 13 would apparently have had Cecily with the Crossbone Vanguard among other plot details, so Tomino rejiggled things a bit to fit a movie format; including having it end with Cecily rejoining Seabook. I imagine Iron Mask's demise is probably something he wrote for the film rather than having him taken out in the original show scripts too. You can definitely see where the pacing takes a hit at points, but the basic gist of the story is still fairly coherent and there are large sections of the movie that there are no actual problems with; it's just that occasionally the plot will just jump events forward with little to no warning or exposition, and you just have to take it as given that some time has passed and yeah, sure, this person has just switched sides despite barely having been introduced etc. I do think Tomino could have done a better job editing the script, because it feels like some stuff is there that doesn't need to be to support the core of Seabook and Cecily's story, but it's fairly successful at what it did given the constraints regardless.
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Jul 25, 2021 22:04
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Willo567 posted:I think it would really benefit from a trilogy remake similar to Hathaway's Flash to make the story less of a mess How can you say that when by your own admission you haven't seen it?
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Jul 25, 2021 22:36
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get his rear end
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Jul 26, 2021 00:04
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As someone who loves F91 despite its issues, I think a decompressed version could be amazing... But Tomino's expressed that he has absolutely no interest going back to his old Gundam work, and Seabook's VA Kouji Tsujitani passed away in 2018, so anyone's new take on F91 wouldn't feel authentic to me, in a way that asks why not just make a new Gundam inspired by F91 instead? Big animated Gundam remakes feel generally a little pointless in my eyes, because the franchise goes back to ideas all the time in new works and a team making Mobile Suit Gundam Whatever driven by a desire to refine F91 sounds way more interesting than redoing F91 itself for that. Manga retellings in the vein of 0083 Rebellion are fine to me though, because differences in format make it way more clearly a specific author(s)' take on the material instead of an intended replacement, and one based on F91 could be really cool but it wouldn't have the same wealth of side material to integrate as an appeal point.
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Jul 26, 2021 07:36
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A remake of f91 would be worthwhile to be a stronger lead in to crossbone gundam
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Jul 26, 2021 07:42
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Tae posted:A remake of f91 would be worthwhile to be a stronger lead in to crossbone gundam At that point, why not just make a sequel set before Crossbone? There's plenty of space for one without changing anything about Crossbone.
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Jul 26, 2021 07:53
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1st Stage Midboss posted:At that point, why not just make a sequel set before Crossbone? There's plenty of space for one without changing anything about Crossbone. Bigger question. Why intentionally associate anything with Crossbone? (Crossbone Gundam isn't very good.)
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Jul 26, 2021 08:00
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was gundam wing written by an actual idiot why are duo/qatre/neun so aghast at fortress barge being destroyed by zechs? THEY WERE JUST GOING TO DO THE SAME THING! and it was implied it would further damage the colony they've been protecting the whole series! not to mention theyve been fighting oz this entire time
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Jul 26, 2021 10:09
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The current UC revival really missed a golden chance to just politely nudge F-91 and Victory over into the "we won't count those ones anymore" column to give clean air to the new material they're making
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Jul 26, 2021 10:37
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Relin posted:was gundam wing written by an actual idiot Gundam Wing was written by people who had the director radically change the plan every few episodes, with no warning, and also the director was replaced midway in. It was not a show where the plot was extensively discussed and ironed out, basically.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:44
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chiasaur11 posted:Bigger question. Why intentionally associate anything with Crossbone? I love crossbone and all of its stupid, crazy, ideas to death and still really want to see an anime of it. But yeah it's probably never going to happen because it's kind of dumb and not good. Maybe one day we'll get an adaptation in the sense that someone will trim out all of the stuff that's bad and reimagine it as something good and then we'll just get to see the cool pirate gundams fight cool robots. EDIT: Gotta be honest, for how down people tend to be on Victory I think I hate the Zanscare more than old MSG's Zeon. Not that the scale of anything I've seen in Victory so far still manages to compare to how hosed up gassing and dropping colonies are, but the way these people constantly talk about destroying the authority and governments on earth while doing almost nothing but just murdering civilians is wild and I really don't get the (relatively small) fanbases a lot of the villains this show have across the internet. Nuebot fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 11:45
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https://twitter.com/DzikeatersH/status/1419285867173056518?s=20
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Jul 26, 2021 13:05
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Droyer posted:How can you say that when by your own admission you haven't seen it? I mean, I know about it via SRW. I just heard that the story is rushed mess because of the production issues, and that sentiment seems to be shared by a lot of people. I was just making a suggestion Willo567 fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 13:18
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Relin posted:was gundam wing written by an actual idiot Yes. I realize the original series was made in 1979, but even then I'd like to hear how they thought a vintage sailboat tiller would work for controlling a spaceship. It's not like they couldn't just look at, say, an airplane or something.
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Jul 26, 2021 13:20
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Seemlar posted:The current UC revival really missed a golden chance to just politely nudge F-91 and Victory over into the "we won't count those ones anymore" column to give clean air to the new material they're making The entire point of even shows like Unicorn was to fill in gaps, so clearing F91 and/or Victory out of the way to make room for them would actually be acting against their original intentions. NT makes it clearer, with all the talk about how psycoframe is a scary singularity that shouldn't exist, but even in Unicorn the Federation were afraid of Newtypes and psycoframe, and trying to obfuscate them in various ways. chiasaur11 posted:Gundam Wing was written by people who had the director radically change the plan every few episodes, with no warning, and also the director was replaced midway in. The head writer, Katsuyuki Sumizawa, has talked in interviews about the planning sessions before the show started production and how they set out to make something that was basically a combination of the early UC shows so I'm not sure how much actually changed radically episode to episode. I'm sure some things did, but that's pretty common, to adapt as you write and circumstances change. Are there interviews talking about plans changing constantly or something?
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Jul 26, 2021 13:32
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Relin posted:was gundam wing written by an actual idiot I mean, he did slice the thing in half IIRC. None of them could have just gone up to it and blown it the gently caress up in an instant, more like probably would have destroyed key parts instead of just chopping it into bits like it was nothing. It has been a while but I don't recall their astonishment being about anything other than "holy poo poo did you see what Zechs just did!"
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Jul 26, 2021 13:35
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Willo567 posted:I mean, I know about it via SRW. I just heard that the story is rushed mess because of the production issues, and that sentiment seems to be shared by a lot of people. So you don't have any idea what you're talking about, got it.
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Jul 26, 2021 16:18
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Droyer posted:So you don't have any idea what you're talking about, got it. You really don't need to be hostile about it dude. I wasn't trying to start anything, so I don't know why you're being an rear end Willo567 fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 16:36
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Zanscare is just openly comically villanous. Zeon and a lot of what bleeds out from the corpse of Zeon is on some level built on some kind of philosophy or idea about the future of humans and space, Zanscare umm like guillotines and bugs maybe? They take actions that villains would take to make them villains, there is no actual concrete idea about what they are and they aren't really interested in diving into it. Katejina much like Zanscare is so completely underdeveloped who knows why she does anything. she disappears for a while and then comes back as almost a different person beyond the design. Victory really just leaves a ton on the floor that could be really good for the world building to instead offer you motorcycle battleships and being brutal and mean to everyone because. We can speculate all we want about what might explain what happens to her, but its not ever actually developed or shown or seemingly given any effort to trying to connect those dots leaving us as the viewer feeling hollow about these absurd caricatures.
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Jul 26, 2021 16:56
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Zanscare is just openly comically villanous. Zeon and a lot of what bleeds out from the corpse of Zeon is on some level built on some kind of philosophy or idea about the future of humans and space, Zanscare umm like guillotines and bugs maybe? They take actions that villains would take to make them villains, there is no actual concrete idea about what they are and they aren't really interested in diving into it. Why have a coherent ideology when you can have a personality cult built around newtype healing rallies?
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Jul 26, 2021 16:59
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Zanscare is one of the dumbest and worst villain factions in Gundam but at least they’re so ludicrously insane and evil it’s kinda funny. They’re more entertaining then crap like the A Laws at least
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Jul 26, 2021 17:01
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Zanscare is a perversion of the Tominionan ideal of motherhood. It's a bit of a continuation of what he is going on about with Scirocco in Zeta, but with a stronger emphasis on Motherhood specifically rather than just Femininity in general. The show delves perhaps the hardest into the sin of able bodied men, whom at this period Tomino believes should be the ones guiding society, becoming almost totally inactive. In absence of this influence the only things left to fill the gap in leadership is The League Militare. Itself formed mostly of Children, Women, and Old Men. And the Zanscare which is like Sciroccos idealized society a perverted Matriarchy, where Maria is forced to become a mother of the nation, with the citizens becoming her children even as her own child is lost from her. And of course the Jovians are the ones in real control. Basically Zanscare is a front with Patriarchal authority of a truly nefarious type lulling the citizens and soldiers into agreeable state by utilizing Maria as a symbol of motherhood.
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Jul 26, 2021 17:08
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Gaius Marius posted:Zanscare is a perversion of the Tominionan ideal of motherhood. It's a bit of a continuation of what he is going on about with Scirocco in Zeta, but with a stronger emphasis on Motherhood specifically rather than just Femininity in general. Which means some very interesting things could end up happening in SRW 30 considering we have both Zeta Gundam and Victory on the roster
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Jul 26, 2021 20:02
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Nuebot posted:and I really don't get the (relatively small) fanbases a lot of the villains this show have across the internet. Duker Iq did nothing wrong.
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Jul 26, 2021 20:19
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Ojjeorago posted:Duker Iq did nothing wrong. The Motorad Unit is easily the best thing from Victory.
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Jul 26, 2021 20:59
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