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Dude got a ghost motorcycle. How many newtype ghosts can say that, huh?
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Jul 26, 2021 21:08
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I really like marbet. She was cool. Jinn gehenaman name actually living on forever is loving hilarious as well
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Jul 26, 2021 21:11
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Just give me animated Gaia Gear finally.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:Dude got a ghost motorcycle. How many newtype ghosts can say that, huh? Wasn't that his one off lackeys in ep 40 something who rode off into the newtype distance on a bitchin cruiser? Or do I not remember the Motorad Unit being so cool they all get newtype ghost cycles?
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Jul 26, 2021 21:25
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Wasn't that his one off lackeys in ep 40 something who rode off into the newtype distance on a bitchin cruiser? Nah, just Duker and Renda ghostriding on a ghost bike to their ghost cabin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BEiGulze0U
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Jul 26, 2021 21:31
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The last 10 episodes of Victory might as well be an acid trip.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:37
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Zanscare didn't have a strong "this is what our faction is for" ideology beyond conquering Earth and then Maria will be everyone's mom, but a lot of the Zanscare characters we got to know were aiming to live an idealised life on Earth, either something in the vein of Uso's rural lifestyle or by being a free biker. It puts them into an obvious contrast with the kids who were living those lives but now they have to fight to protect them, and all the cities of innocent civilians murdered so we can be innocent civilians. Zanscare as a whole is very blatantly evil, there's clear precursors to the "let's go back to Earth, regardless of what we have to do for it" themes Tomino would later return to in Turn A and G-Reco.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:39
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Zanscare is just openly comically villanous. Zeon and a lot of what bleeds out from the corpse of Zeon is on some level built on some kind of philosophy or idea about the future of humans and space, Zanscare umm like guillotines and bugs maybe? They take actions that villains would take to make them villains, there is no actual concrete idea about what they are and they aren't really interested in diving into it. The Principality of Zeon had no real philosophy or idea about the future in 0079, beyond Gihren saying that he thought the Federation were too bureaucratic and that the human population had grown to large for the Earthsphere to support, and even then, the second half of that is only in the movies. I don't even think Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, 0080, 0083 or 08th MS Team added much of a philosophy for Zeon and it's more a consequence of supplementary material that Zeon as a faction have that kind of depth; especially the novels. Since they tend to go into Zeon Zum Deikun's actual philosophy. Various manga, databooks, manuals etc. added a good bit to it to though. Complaining that Zanscare lack any kind of ideal in comparison to Zeon is kind of unfair because there is just so much material exploring Zeon, and almost none for Zanscare and most stuff exploring Zeon doesn't even add much to the overall picture. There's just so much though, that even "not a lot" in little bits adds up over time in to a lot more.
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Jul 26, 2021 22:18
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Zanscare didn't have a strong "this is what our faction is for" ideology beyond conquering Earth and then Maria will be everyone's mom, but a lot of the Zanscare characters we got to know were aiming to live an idealised life on Earth, either something in the vein of Uso's rural lifestyle or by being a free biker. It puts them into an obvious contrast with the kids who were living those lives but now they have to fight to protect them, and all the cities of innocent civilians murdered so we can be innocent civilians. Zanscare as a whole is very blatantly evil, there's clear precursors to the "let's go back to Earth, regardless of what we have to do for it" themes Tomino would later return to in Turn A and G-Reco. It's interesting in the light of Hathaway's Flash, because the central plotline there is about how everybody needs to get out of the pool until they can clean up the turds. Where Zeon endorsed leaving Earth, and Cosmo Babylonia didn't give a poo poo, Zanscare and the Jupiter Empire are obsessed with reclaiming the planet. And not even in a Moonrace "diplomacy first, and when that goes too slow, we get out the Mobile Suits" way. Just straight up massive destruction from the jump. (It also stands out more in Victory because of the other faction goals. In Turn A, Earth has recovered, and the Moonrace coming home could make life better for everyone, if not for the misunderstandings leading to full on war. Meanwhile, in Victory, the protagonists are squatting on Earth illegally even before the plot gives them a reason to be in the lower world, despite the planet not having had nearly enough time to recover from the massive environmental damage of the mid Universal Century.) On an unrelated note, the Olympic swim relay finals kicked off playing Hoping for You. So, that's fun.
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Jul 26, 2021 23:12
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Does Zanscare really need a lofty overriding philosophy or goal? The point of them invading Earth was so that Kagatie could gain power and control. The puppet matriarchy, the terror campaigns with the guillotines and the Motorad unit, the Keilas Guilie superlaser, and the Angel Halo itself were all simply tools made in service of gaining power and eliminating potential dangers and rivals to that power. They can fill in the "future goals and aspirations" field after they win and all of their opponents are dead or defeated. As tsob says, Zeon functioned mostly the same way. Gihren talked a lot about population control and bureaucracy and contolism, but he was launching an aggressive imperial war to secure supremacy. Haman was doing the same thing. Char's Neo Zeon in CCA was the only Zeon faction that was fighting primarily for an ideological goal divorced from "I rule everything and have all the power, thanks".
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Jul 26, 2021 23:25
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Apologies for interrupting the Zanscare topic, I’m dipping in to the thread to ask a newbie question: I’ve recently become funemployed and I’m binging my way through Gundam, having my interest piqued by Hathaway on Netflix. So far I’ve watched (I think this is the chronology): Gundam I, II, III War in the Pocket Char’s Counterattack Afterglow of Zeon Unicorn Narrative Hathaway F91 Wing Endless Waltz Iron-Blooded Orphans I’m looking for the next parts to dip into, and where I could do so. My assumption is that Zeta and ZZ are the next logical series to go for, but I don’t know where they’re available to watch. I saw that 00G is on Gundaminfo on YouTube, but I’m sort of jazzing on the UC stuff at the moment, being as I’ve so heavily watched them. If Zeta is available, I’d love to know where so I can get into that, otherwise, 00G is one of the “good ones”, right? Ive been reading back through the thread and between the meta conversations and how much I’ve consumed lately, it’s a little blurry.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:14
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Well literally anything you watch except age is better than the afterglow of zeon. 00 is lit as hell. It's the most in conversation with tomino UC though so I'd watch Zeta at least and preferably ZZ first
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Jul 27, 2021 00:24
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koreban posted:If Zeta is available, I’d love to know where so I can get into that, otherwise, 00G is one of the “good ones”, right? Ive been reading back through the thread and between the meta conversations and how much I’ve consumed lately, it’s a little blurry. 00 season 1 is good, 00 season 2 is a mess, Awakening of the Trailblazer has a good goof in it at least.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:25
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Season 2 has a lot of strengths. Good designs, great villain, and it hits it's high points very well. People discount it a lot for not being what they wanted it to be, but if you go in with an open mind it's very good.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:27
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Kanos posted:Does Zanscare really need a lofty overriding philosophy or goal? The point of them invading Earth was so that Kagatie could gain power and control. The puppet matriarchy, the terror campaigns with the guillotines and the Motorad unit, the Keilas Guilie superlaser, and the Angel Halo itself were all simply tools made in service of gaining power and eliminating potential dangers and rivals to that power. They can fill in the "future goals and aspirations" field after they win and all of their opponents are dead or defeated. Except you need the philosophy first to get anything done. To put it bluntly, people need something to die for. For the One Year War, as Unicorn discusses, it was Zeon, a philosophy that let people see a blatant war of conquest as a holy campaign for freedom and independence. That's why Haman needed Mineva for legitimacy. It lets her present her desires for vengeance as something other people should care about. You even see it for the Titans, best shown with poor, decent Ajis Aziba. People might kill for power, but they won't die for it. (After all, there's no way to use it then). Even if the leader of a faction is just in it for selfish motives, they need something to tell the rank and file. Edit: As for 00, I've only seen the first episode and the movie. First episode had interesting ideas and an excellent first scene, but I wasn't 100 percent sold. The movie sucked. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 00:33
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Gaius Marius posted:Season 2 has a lot of strengths. Good designs, great villain, and it hits it's high points very well. People discount it a lot for not being what they wanted it to be, but if you go in with an open mind it's very good. I mean it's not unwatchable and going back to a more conventional for gundam type of plot isn't bad on its own, but it decides to tie up more loose ends than it needs to on top of adding more, and they're all dealt with in pretty unsatisfying ways. Characters also just make bizarre decisions for no good reason.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:48
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chiasaur11 posted:Except you need the philosophy first to get anything done. To put it bluntly, people need something to die for. That's where the Contolist jihad built around Maria comes in. Zanscare is much more overtly mystical in its rhetoric than previous antagonist factions, with a strong message of 'the superman is real, and she's your mom' backing up a campaign of conquest based on manifest destiny (as disciples of the new and improved humanity). Meanwhile, the cynical materialists who actually run the military just want to take over Earth to support their ever-growing population, and recognise that the planet's so badly polluted that they'll have to kill a shitload of people before there's room for their own. Thus, a steadily escalating campaign of mass murder culminating in Giant Roller and the Angel Halo.
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Jul 27, 2021 01:29
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chiasaur11 posted:As for 00, I've only seen the first episode and the movie. First episode had interesting ideas and an excellent first scene, but I wasn't 100 percent sold. "I watched the first episode and then skipped over two 25-episode seasons' worth of character, story, and thematic development to watch the sequel movie, which I did not like."
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Jul 27, 2021 01:47
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chiasaur11 posted:Except you need the philosophy first to get anything done. To put it bluntly, people need something to die for. The puppet matriarchy was the fake cause that Zanscare was rallied around. Maria's Holy Newtype Matriarchy was supposed to bring conquest and peace to the
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Jul 27, 2021 02:20
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https://twitter.com/gusbonito/status/1419793210302468112?s=20
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Jul 27, 2021 03:33
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Gundamn, I think we found British Bright's ancestor.
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Jul 27, 2021 03:43
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Anshu posted:"I watched the first episode and then skipped over two 25-episode seasons' worth of character, story, and thematic development to watch the sequel movie, which I did not like." To be fair, the movie was not good. Even as the 00S2 defender. That said, what the gently caress Chisaur why would you wathc the movie before the series
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Jul 27, 2021 06:55
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The movie had a good underlying concept and did something people lauded the first season for (introducing new themes to a Gundam story), but I will concede that it had a lot of issues with the execution.
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Jul 27, 2021 07:09
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Gaius Marius posted:To be fair, the movie was not good. Even as the 00S2 defender. That said, what the gently caress Chisaur why would you wathc the movie before the series I'd played through the SD Cross Silhouette campaign covering the series so I knew the basics, the movie was on Gundam info for a special event, and I'd seen all the other theatrical releases. Figured I could at least see how it worked as its own thing. (Not at all.)
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Jul 27, 2021 07:13
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Anshu posted:The movie had a good underlying concept and did something people lauded the first season for (introducing new themes to a Gundam story), but I will concede that it had a lot of issues with the execution. It's interesting that the movie manages to be trailblazing for gundam as a whole. While also being the most in touch with Tomiono's gundam's themes. chiasaur11 posted:I'd played through the SD Cross Silhouette campaign covering the series so I knew the basics, the movie was on Gundam info for a special event, and I'd seen all the other theatrical releases. Figured I could at least see how it worked as its own thing. Watch it it's good
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Jul 27, 2021 08:10
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chiasaur11 posted:Except you need the philosophy first to get anything done. To put it bluntly, people need something to die for. They have something to die for: Queen Maria, her matriarchy healing the world etc. I'm pretty sure several characters even shout refrains about her during battle. Which is about as much as any Tomino show gives in terms of philosophy for the villainous faction. I'm not sure why you're holding Victory to standards Zeon never meets if all you go by is those shows, especially villainous factions that only have one show. I don't understand how you can pronounce something spelled "G-U-N-D-A-M" as "Gan-dumb". I wonder did the person who texted him spell it rear end backwards.
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Jul 27, 2021 09:59
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tsob posted:I don't understand how you can pronounce something spelled "G-U-N-D-A-M" as "Gan-dumb". I wonder did the person who texted him spell it rear end backwards.
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Jul 27, 2021 10:11
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Gaius Marius posted:Unfortunately British is a disease that's incurable I hear Zeon has an operation for that.
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Jul 27, 2021 10:12
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Episode 36 of Victory and holy poo poo, the universe really, really just hates Uso doesn't it?
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Jul 27, 2021 10:34
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Really I thought that's the episode he finally got ahead
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Jul 27, 2021 10:40
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chiasaur11 posted:I hear Zeon has an operation for that. Yeah, but the trial run in Australia...didn't do tell well from what I'm told.
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Jul 27, 2021 12:04
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They tried again in ZZ, but they were off target and hit one island over.
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Jul 27, 2021 13:08
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tsob posted:I don't understand how you can pronounce something spelled "G-U-N-D-A-M" as "Gan-dumb". I wonder did the person who texted him spell it rear end backwards. You've never encountered people who intentionally mispronounce words or names in order to be flippant or to downplay their knowledge of pop culture lest they be branded a nerd? This guy may be British but he's doing that on purpose because robots are nerd poo poo unlike hard-core Olympic cycling and because it's Japan that's basically a carte blanche for shithead reporters and commentators to play up the whole "oh those Japanese are so quirky and exotic!" angle for laughs from their viewers.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:09
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that seems a lot more convoluted than a guy just mixing up the vowels because he's not familiar
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Jul 27, 2021 15:17
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he's not familiar and he doesn't care. why should he?
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Jul 27, 2021 15:26
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the reporter in question is based in the UK normally too and I think I've even heard his voice on news reports from BBC in the past. I'm sure BBC has a Japanese correspondent there year round, but I doubt it's him, if for no other reason than he's got a really solid British accent that hasn't started slipping or getting muddled by time living abroad by the sounds of it.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:28
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tsob posted:They have something to die for: Queen Maria, her matriarchy healing the world etc. I'm pretty sure several characters even shout refrains about her during battle. Which is about as much as any Tomino show gives in terms of philosophy for the villainous faction. I'm not sure why you're holding Victory to standards Zeon never meets if all you go by is those shows, especially villainous factions that only have one show. Fair or unfair that Zeon got additional stuff, they have a much clearer byline of what they're about than Zanscare is ever given. If folks lay that on top of what's shown in the shows, it just goes to the point that they have a central idea you can understand and organize a story around, work that Victory never bothers to do. Zanscare are the villains because they do villain things, period. There is no direction given by the show for why or how or what convinced them to be villains, they just are. Even in MSG, Zeon has this explained friction with Earth Federation that gives more direction to them as a faction in the opening monologue than Zanscare ever gets. It boils down to you can see why the EF/Zeon are in conflict, it is really difficult to figure why Zanscare/EF (League Militaire) have to be in conflict at all or why Zanscare would choose the genocide option for whatever it is they want to do. They are in conflict because Zanscare are the villains of the show so they will do things villains would do, and it's really really hollow. Victory makes a point that Zanscare ISN'T just more Zeon and that leaves us with a ton of empty narrative space they didn't bother to fill. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 16:07
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Apart from the mechanical designs being excellent dies anyone else think Victory looks visually flat? Considering it's right before G Gundam and Wing the jump in art styles to those two series is striking and they're much more 90s anime aesthetic than Victory. Victory has a pretty bright color palette overall but I think it worked better for Turn A than it does for V. Basically what I'm saying is I don't find Victory overall that appealing to look at and its mostly held up visually by the mechanical designs and Tomino's creative fight choreography. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 16:11
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Fair or unfair that Zeon got additional stuff, they have a much clearer byline of what they're about than Zanscare is ever given. If folks lay that on top of what's shown in the shows, it just goes to the point that they have a central idea you can understand and organize a story around, work that Victory never bothers to do. It's only unfair if you do "lay what other folks have said on top". If you take any of the actual shows by themselves then that show does nothing to establish Zeon in the way you're talking about. Which includes the original show. You say that the opening narration's talk about how Zeon are at war for independence as if that alone justifies the huge death toll the opening narration also establishes (at least one colony drop, and the destruction of 4 Sides; none of which the show is interested in exploring in any way, shape or form), but even if it were then the show still makes clear that's kind of bullshit since Zeon are an autocracy, and none of the troops ever actually talk about independence as a motivation at all. In fact, none of them ever mention any motivation. The only times we ever get any kind of motivation from anyone is (a) Ramba Ral, who is trying to get revenge for Garma solely because doing so will result in a promotion for his men and (b) the Wappa guys in "Time, Be Still", who just want to go home. Taken on it's own, the show seems to imply that Zeon are conscripting people rather than that any of them are fighting for any kind of independence. Which the movies make explicit is horseshit, because Degwin talks about how the Federation recognized Side 3 as autonomous after Deikun's original rebellion a decade or more before the story takes place. Autonomy that was clear enough that Zeon could decide it's own political leadership with no oversight from the Federation (Degwin took power based solely on Deikun's apparent word) before transforming Side 3 into an authoritarian state, build up a substantial military and conduct their own economic affairs with the Jupiter Energy Fleet and Side 6. Side 3 were independent in all but name even in the original depiction, a name that was itself only one step removed from being independent, and still committed horrific war crimes in the name of an independence that literally no-one in the show seems to care about.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:23
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:he's not familiar and he doesn't care. why should he? gently caress you I've already written 4 complaint letters to [Olympic coverage man]
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Jul 27, 2021 16:26
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