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It was good. Yea, it was a rehash in a certain sense, but where EoE was (justifiably) hostile to the audience, this felt like emotional closure from Anno and the sadbrain teenager who fell in love with this series in the first place. Just talk to your dad! It will be ok.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:01
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Eimi posted:To me this film series was just "Oh well have you tried not being depressed?" while the tv series and EoE were more about someone who got it, and understood what I am going through. I am sorry that this is the interpretation you got from this series. I can understand how you feel that way since when you are really deep in those feelings it can be very difficult to see suggestive positive outcomes as anything other than patronizing. From my perspective, it is more about isolation and the use of communication to work through problems through mutual understanding.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:02
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So that’s it? Some kind of Neon Genesis?
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Aug 15, 2021 04:19
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ManSedan posted:So that’s it? Some kind of Neon Genesis? With no Evangelion, yes.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:22
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The Neon Genesis is getting to be a non binary adult with your big boob pan partner and no I will not be taking questions at this time thank you.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:26
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PringleCreamEgg posted:I am sorry that this is the interpretation you got from this series. I can understand how you feel that way since when you are really deep in those feelings it can be very difficult to see suggestive positive outcomes as anything other than patronizing. From my perspective, it is more about isolation and the use of communication to work through problems through mutual understanding. this is what evangelion has always been about, not just the rebuilds. rebuild definitely doesn't have the same emotional rawness as the original though. Like, man did Shinji's jump to self-actualization happen pretty drat quickly
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Aug 15, 2021 04:27
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wedgie deliverer posted:It was good. Yea, it was a rehash in a certain sense, but where EoE was (justifiably) hostile to the audience, this felt like emotional closure from Anno and the sadbrain teenager who fell in love with this series in the first place. and in terms of Bad Dads Gendo ranks pretty high up on the list.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:29
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it wasn't that quick, it was at least a month considering when we first arrive there the pregnant lady is a month from delivery and we see her holding her newborn and walking around. the cat also goes from pregnant to walking around with its kitten. hell, the kittens eyes being open takes at least a solid month or two on its own. shinji was able to work through his poo poo because this time people actually just gave him some loving space and respected that he needed time EDIT FZeroRacer posted:this is the funniest message to take away from the series because there are people that are not worth talking to because they reject you or who you are as a person.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:31
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FZeroRacer posted:this is the funniest message to take away from the series because there are people that are not worth talking to because they reject you or who you are as a person. Yeah, I always saw is that Shinji finally recognized he didn't need Gendo and he didn't need to have him in his life to have value. At the risk of getting too personal, the differences between my own father and I are not something that can be solved by 'talking it out' and I am infinitely better for not having him in my life.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:34
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Paper Lion posted:imagine watching evangelion for 25 years and then coming into this thread after the big finale and actually complaining that everything worked out this time because they actually communicated for once. like, no poo poo? the whole problem has always been lack of communication, no one ever communicated how they felt, we HAVE PERSONAL A.T FIELDS THAT INHIBIT IT, instrumentality's whole point is to destroy the boundries between each other so we don't need to communicate anymore and exist in singularity. original NGE is "i am sad and it is hard to communicate why without feeling judged, but maybe if i try harder at it and accept my feelings and my problems as my own then i will have a better life" and rebuild is "i managed to communicate my needs, and was rewarded with a better life. you can do it too!" these works are entirely consistent and in conversation with each other. one is made by a man in the middle of the throes of depression, making a work that is telling himself the things he needs to tell himself in order to get through the day and maintain some hope that things could ever change for him one day, and the other is by a man that actually came out the other side and is trying to show other people that he understands where they are now but that they can do it too. i do not say this to be mean, but to the poster above saying they're in therapy and that there's no way people would get better by just talking, i can guarantee you that you will have a lot of success opening up and engaging in radical honesty with yourself and others. this film and series of films was literally made for people in your position. keep at it! anno believes in you!!! really excellent post Paper Lion posted:it wasn't that quick, it was at least a month considering when we first arrive there the pregnant lady is a month from delivery and we see her holding her newborn and walking around. the cat also goes from pregnant to walking around with its kitten. hell, the kittens eyes being open takes at least a solid month or two on its own. shinji was able to work through his poo poo because this time people actually just gave him some loving space and respected that he needed time Yeah i dunno where people are getting a week from. first the big difference between nge and rebuild is that shinji is way more assertive now. But beyond that, it's so obviously contrasted with the beginning of 3.0. Shinji is appreciated and loved by those around him. They acknowledge his mistakes, but also that without him the apocalypse would've happened. Shinjis emotional journey in this movie is totally justified. I mean, to me it seems obvious that this movie is a reaction in many ways to the respons to 3.0. Like yeah it's crowd pleasing but I don't think thats a bad thing. if you wanna feel depressed just watch EoE, but I think after 25 years its ok to feel better. Like many people, I was pretty depressed and misanthropic when I first watched Eva but now am in a much better place in my life. they're (original and rebuild) both good pieces of media that are entertaining and thought provoking throughout. Mirello fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 04:38
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Paper Lion posted:imagine watching evangelion for 25 years and then coming into this thread after the big finale and actually complaining that everything worked out this time because they actually communicated for once. like, no poo poo? the whole problem has always been lack of communication, no one ever communicated how they felt, we HAVE PERSONAL A.T FIELDS THAT INHIBIT IT, instrumentality's whole point is to destroy the boundries between each other so we don't need to communicate anymore and exist in singularity. original NGE is "i am sad and it is hard to communicate why without feeling judged, but maybe if i try harder at it and accept my feelings and my problems as my own then i will have a better life" and rebuild is "i managed to communicate my needs, and was rewarded with a better life. you can do it too!" these works are entirely consistent and in conversation with each other. one is made by a man in the middle of the throes of depression, making a work that is telling himself the things he needs to tell himself in order to get through the day and maintain some hope that things could ever change for him one day, and the other is by a man that actually came out the other side and is trying to show other people that he understands where they are now but that they can do it too. i do not say this to be mean, but to the poster above saying they're in therapy and that there's no way people would get better by just talking, i can guarantee you that you will have a lot of success opening up and engaging in radical honesty with yourself and others. this film and series of films was literally made for people in your position. keep at it! anno believes in you!!! I also appreciate this post. I've always had a lot of time for Shinji through the series and having struggled through to no longer really being depressed anymore it pleases me greatly to see him get there too finally, being able to comfortably exist and relate to people is the tops.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:54
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Mirello posted:if you wanna feel depressed just watch EoE, but I think after 25 years its ok to feel better. End of Evangelion posted:”Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.”
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Aug 15, 2021 04:54
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Augus posted:I don’t get how people still miss the fact that EoE has a powerfully life-affirming message and isn’t just “movie make you feel sad”  I also never even felt it was the angry take that at fans some people think either. I can certainly see that in some areas, but the overall message was always incredibly positive and hopeful. Shinji rejecting Instrumentality was a good thing and isn't inconsistent with the last two episodes.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:59
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Augus posted:I don’t get how people still miss the fact that EoE has a powerfully life-affirming message and isn’t just “movie make you feel sad” I think that's because the film ends with the only two humans outside of the LCL sea on a beach, with Shinji strangling Asuka and Asuka insulting Shinji. There's the possibility of something good going forward, emphasized by episodes 25 and 26 being about Shinji learning not to hate himself, but the moment we leave on is still a pretty bleak point, without a clear image of how things can get to the hope Yui talked about. Add in the ending cut to black, and it's easy to see it as a downer. Shin, by contrast actually pays out what was promised. Shinji learned his lesson, got through all the poo poo life had piled on him with a lot of help and patience from his friends (both in giving him a little shove to move forward once he could, and giving him space when he couldn't), and managed to reach through to his father, letting Gendo realize what he'd done wrong just in time, rather than (like in EoE) just too late. And in the end, you have beautiful music playing as Shinji and Mari hold hands and gleefully run off into the world. EoE said that things could get better. Shin ends on things being better.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:07
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SW: Evangeline 3.0+1.0 I feel really good after seeing the final Evangelion film. It's hard to put into words. When it started, I said "let's get it over with it." It felt out of obligation to watch it and I thought I should see it now before it was spoiled. About a quarter way in, I asked myself why does this exist? We don't need another Evangelion film. It's served its purpose. Too many stories look back. You can't make new stories when you focus so much on the past. I lingered on that thought. As the story progressed, I kept asking myself what Hideki is trying to say. It was a lot of bluster and noise but things didn't match up. Why is there 70s upbeat mecha music in the battleship fight? Why is there so much spectacle in this emotional story? How is this going to tie together thematically? Then, it felt like Hideki answered. The story changed. It became a battle between Shinji and Gendo. That felt right, for a minute. But it felt off too. Gendo is the source of Shinji's suffering but this didn't feel right. Then, the story answered again: violence and fear isn't the answer. The story shifted. It became a conversation. It questioned itself. They broke Gendo down. I had read the manga since high school so I recongized the story. But it felt more impactful here because Shinji had answers for Gendo. He had grown better than Gendo, past him. Gendo left. So, Kaworu comes and the story becomes meta. It questions not the nature of the story, but it's endless repetition. The story mirrors my own: it doesn't need to exist. It's repeated as nasuem forever because it makes money, it's a franchise. It can't move on. They always play the same part. But Shinji grew past that too. He made a place for Kaworu, not in death, and gave him a spot next to Kaji. And they left. Their story doesn't need to keep looping. So, all that remained was Rei. Shinji promised not to rewind time. A bit of an odd statement. Sure, in universe, one could take it to mean that every 3rd impact reset the world because Shinji wasn't ready to make the right choice. Maybe on the surface that's how'd you take it. But they were on a movie set. They aired the old intro and clips from the End of Evangelion like it was an old film reel. Shinji wanted to make a world where new people could be born, where Rei wasn't defined by Eva, and he promised not to rewind time. He was saying he was growing past the show. That he wasn't just going to be stuck rewatching and wallowing in what was already made. He was going to move past it and make something new. Hideki was rejecting the need for this entire reboot series, for himself and the audience. Perhaps it would have fit better if it aired when scheduled before Hideki moved into new fields. But perhaps the story would have been different. Perhaps this is being said because Hideki had moved on and prospered. And so it ends with the titular Neon Gensis. They emphasize that line for a reason. It was always promised this show would be a rebirth. And it was, in a way. The original series rebirthed the super robot subgenre into a new subgenre. But this was different. It was a birth of a world without Evangelion, their words. A world where people moved on and experienced life. Gendo got off the train long ago. He was the failure that Shinji avoided. He was what Shinji was in other versions of this story. When Gendo is shown in Asuka's story, which I skipped mentioning here, he reminded me a little of how Hideki Anno looks. But then so does the older Shinji we see at the end, when he made the new world without Evangelion. So, I get it. It's complicated really. A reboot series that ultimately culminating in saying it didn't need to exist. A story telling people not to rewatch, to move on, live life, and make your own things. It's Hideki looking back on his work on this series, on himself as a person (Gendo's story felt personal to Hideki), and on the fandom his work spawned. He wanted to kill the beast. Tell people to become their own people outside of fandom. It's a story where a director kills himself and is reborn, hoping the auidence will do the same. I really liked it and, ironically, it's exactly what I needed to pull myself out of the funk I had been in for the last few days. All that said, I would not trust Hideki Anno to care for a traumatized person given the things that happen in this story. Also, the script was clearly written by studio Kara and translated by studip Kara and localization should have had more freedom. Seriously, that was a stitled as gently caress script and it kept pulling me out of the experience.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:33
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I thought it thematically appropriate that the enemies in Paris were can-can robots. The angels really got a raw deal out of Rebuild, they just haven't really been a thing since 2.0, but I guess that "monster of the week" doesn't quite work when you've only got a few movies to operate in.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:36
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I was a kid when the original series came out and now, like, 30 years later watched the rebuilds. I loved it. I had a lump in my throat. I'm glad I saw this and feel a sense of happiness and bliss. I'm glad this is how it was concluded.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:45
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Gatts posted:I was a kid when the original series came out and now, like, 30 years later watched the rebuilds. I loved it. I had a lump in my throat. I'm glad I saw this and feel a sense of happiness and bliss. I'm glad this is how it was concluded. Yeah, that was my strange takeaway. It just felt so fullfilling and I didn't expect to feel this happy at the end.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:50
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Covok posted:Yeah, that was my strange takeaway. It just felt so fullfilling and I didn't expect to feel this happy at the end. Yeah, and that it broke down the 4th wall, became meta, and left its world in a better, happier state. Like, the creators gave happiness to it's world as a gift.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:54
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I am surprisingly satisfied with how it turned out. The only times I was really bored was when it was leaning heavily into The Lore for extremely long periods of time as opposed to the actual character moments which I felt hit hard. I really don't get "oh Shinji got over his depression by trying really hard" arguments because that pretty bluntly isn't what happened. He had horrible trauma and was given affection and care which doesn't solve trauma but can absolutely help you come to terms with it. Like if you don't get "Why are you all so nice to me?" "Because we like you" and how loving powerful that is then I'm not sure what to say. It wasn't like he went from being depressed to quipping jokes in a minute. He just found the strength that others gave him and in turn reached out to help others. And that is a really relevant part of dealing with depression. Being able to help others doesn't mean you're all okay, nor does being depressed mean you can't help others. You are not bad or wrong for needing to be alone and people who care about you will support you. Shinji doesn't 'get fixed.' He has people who genuinely care about him and are willing to support him even when he's at his worst, even if that just means giving him time to think and be alone. It was an infinitely more realistic depiction of how people help during times of deep depression than I expected. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 05:57
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ImpAtom posted:Like if you don't get "Why are you all so nice to me?" "Because we like you" and how loving powerful that is then I'm not sure what to say. I don't know how it is in the original language, but Spencer's sobs after that line are just the right kind of terrible for demonstrating just how off-kilter Shinji's mental state is at that point, he sounds like he's about to vomit
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Aug 15, 2021 06:19
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Something to also keep in mind with regards to the "rushed" character development (which I only partially agree with) is that this is unfortunately a movie and not a series. The total runtime of the movies is around 3.5 hours shorter than the series+EoE, but also had to be split up into 4 distinct parts. I'd say this setup makes it much harder to really do as deep and intricate character development compared to the original. They can't as easily have a character take several episodes to overcome some trauma, etc. Admittedly they could have introduced fewer new characters to give older ones more focus. Thinking about it in terms of in-universe time passing, Shinji's development in the rebuilds seems more realistic than in the series/EoE? He gets at least a month or so, possibly several months, to work through his trauma and issues, with a direct support network of friends that care about him. In the original he mopes around for what seems like only a few days before the attack on NERV happens, and then he just mopes around until getting in the robot and is gung-ho to end humanity until he has a single internal dialogue / conversation that helps him realize people are cool, actually. Like Shinji's growth in the rebuilds seems way more believable when looked at from this perspective, we just don't get the very detailed and introspective dialogue from the original, so maybe it seems more rushed / less organic? And this is coming from someone who struggled hard with depression for at least a decade so I'm not wholly unfamiliar with these experiences, relatively. I mean even the rebuilds are super rushed from a real world perspective, cus learning to deal with horrible trauma is definitely not something you can just get over in only a few months lmao
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Aug 15, 2021 06:48
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Movie good! There were some visual elements that I think didn't work in the second half and some of the lore could have been handled better but overall I think they did a good job wrapping everything up. Which is impressive because 3.0 left the franchise with kind of a confusing mess to clean up. They were VERY smart in taking the first half of the movie slow to establish human stakes. It must have been terribly tempting to just fill all 2.5 hours with lore about the new status quo which would have been a huge slog to get through. Also LOL, Mari I love you but after 3 whole movies you still have no real reason to exist. I approve of your relationship with Asuka though so I forgive you. Shinjobi posted:Finally watched it. Loved it. It's.....it's over. Definitively. It's finally over. It looked like poo poo and completely took me out of the movie and also I love it to death and I will be mad if they ever try and change it later.
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Aug 15, 2021 07:09
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Horizon Burning posted:I don't know how it is in the original language, but Spencer's sobs after that line are just the right kind of terrible for demonstrating just how off-kilter Shinji's mental state is at that point, he sounds like he's about to vomit reconciling your own intense self loathing with the fact that other people (still) care for you is an incredibly difficult thing and god drat they managed to capture that
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Aug 15, 2021 07:15
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Watching 3.0 + 1.0 makes me wish 3 was a lot better at setting things up. I don't think Rebuild could ever have been cohesive over such a long and troubled production period but holy hell the difference is night and day.
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Aug 15, 2021 07:47
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Paper Lion’s post should be spoilered and stickied to the OP for anyone confused after watching the Rebuilds. I can’t imagine a better way to explain it.  edit: I watched the original three times in theaters, and couldn’t discern any changes. Something about graffiti? Why was it even updated? Fly Ricky fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 08:04
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Pierson posted:Was there any significance/reference in the retro-sounding backing track when the Wunder is fighting the NERV ship before/during the descent to the NERV HQ? It sounded like nothing else in the series, not even like the remastered Nadia tunes from 3.0. It's a Space Battleship Yamato thing. Same reason the operation's called operation Yamato.
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Aug 15, 2021 09:32
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Chev posted:It's a Space Battleship Yamato thing. Same reason the operation's called operation Yamato. Yeah I watched it with my anime club and they joked about it being a Space Battleship on Operation Yamato only for Sagisu to do what sounded like his own riff on Yamato Descends almost immediately. It was an incredible moment.
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Aug 15, 2021 09:44
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bicycle posted:Watching 3.0 + 1.0 makes me wish 3 was a lot better at setting things up. imo 3 set up a story that 3.0+1.0 swerved wildly away from which is probably a good thing because a happy ending serves eva better imo, even as someone who loves the third rebuild movie
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Aug 15, 2021 09:48
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Horizon Burning posted:imo 3 set up a story that 3.0+1.0 swerved wildly away from which is probably a good thing because a happy ending serves eva better imo, even as someone who loves the third rebuild movie I mean, 3 swerved away from 2, and 2 swerved from 1. To the extent there was a wider plan for this series (which there actually seems to have been from some of the setups and interviews) it involved a lot of fakeouts. 1 was a direct copy of the show, which swerved into 2 being the show people talked about wanting from Evangelion which slammed into a timeskip and Shinji being punished hard for walking in his father's footsteps for 3, which lead into the finale Shinji actually getting the support network he needs, letting him turn around and save the world, surpassing Lal'c and Simon in the bargain by actually having the girl stick around after. The whole structure of the rebuilds revolves around surprise.
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Aug 15, 2021 10:29
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From the beginning some kind of break in at least Rebuild's final film was probably planned, since pretty much every title 3.0+1.0 had until it was finally released broke away from the Jo-Ha-Kyu theming the titles of the first three movies shared. EDIT: I don't think 3.0+1.0 ever shared the "(Not)" thing in the various English titles either come to think of it. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 10:54
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Augus posted:This was a nice and touching capstone to the series but tbh it kinda felt like it was mostly just restating things that the original series and EoE already said for the people that didn't get it People are notoriously very bad at watching/understanding Eva so this was arguably necessary tbh.
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Aug 15, 2021 11:04
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Good film. It's true that a lot of it is stuff you probably could've got from the original series + EoE, but it's satisfying to see it actually play out. A promise that things can be better fulfilled. My favourite parts were the village sequence and the final conversation with Gendo. Most of what he said was stuff any serious Eva fan had probably already worked out but I think it was important for Shinji to finally hear it himself.
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Aug 15, 2021 11:44
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Well, that certainly was the end of Evangelion. And what an end it was. God drat.
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Aug 15, 2021 11:50
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Also I thought for a brief second when it got to the end title card there’d be a “Next Episode” preview that was just Misato going “What the gently caress are you still doing here? The story’s over. Go home.”
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Aug 15, 2021 11:56
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I might watch this again in Japanese because the dub was uhhh kinda poo poo? It was nice to hear the old crew one last time and there were some good moments here and there but the script sounds like it was machine-translated and it’s pretty poorly-produced all around. Spike Spencer can only do so much.
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Aug 15, 2021 11:57
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Yeah and no one knows how to pronounce boatswain.
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Aug 15, 2021 12:45
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It's disappointing to hear that part of the English script issues might lie with Khara because they're doing so much poo poo right, in general, otherwise
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Aug 15, 2021 12:58
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The subtitles are not good either and scream Khara interference. Some things are phrased in very specific ways, which happen to almost all be bad.
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Aug 15, 2021 14:00
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This is super long and meandering, but I agree with everything that Rocco from Mega64 says in his review/impressions video here (he really liked it): https://youtu.be/pWq9eejB8FI
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Aug 15, 2021 14:01
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